<chris> I'm joining

<chris> (we are discussing why the build system broke today)

Broken builds on svgwg.org

<scribe> scribe: AmeliaBR

Chris: Something I merged over the weekend broke it, now Overview.html & a few other pages aren't being built.

<chris> seems to be xml well formdness errors

<chris> related https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/541

Amelia: (fetches changes & runs local build): There's an XML error somewhere.

<chris> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2B

Amelia: error is in the references pages. Copy & paste.

Chris: OK, can fix that later.

Identify SVG1 elements that are obsolete in SVG2

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/448

Chris: Amelia, you linked to this link you made for your book, so that's a good start

https://oreillymedia.github.io/Using_SVG/guide/markup.html#obsolete

Amelia: Yes, though that's elements only.

Chris: But that's most important to mention, since it affects the parser.
... so to start, a table of obsolete elements is useful, maybe linking to definitions in SVG 1.

<chris> generic svg elements, don't get treated as unknown container elelents. no-display, except altglyph falls back to Amelia: generic tspan

Chris: I can post some introductory text on the issue for discussion
... Shouldn't prevent republishing CR (which we got our approval for today).

Use the term "user coordinate system" instead of "local coordinate system"

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/519

Amelia: Some confusing wording that affects many places.

Chris: As the original poster notes, CSS Transforms defines these terms as synonymous. So it should come down to a find and replace.

Amelia: Agree we should standardize on the phrase used in standard definitions.

Tav: Are the terms clearly defined?

Chris: yes, in CSS Transforms, which we reference.

Tav: we also might want to include the definition, so that it can be understood without following links.

Amelia: One area of possible confusion will be patterns & clipPath & so on, where you need to clearly distinguish userSpaceOnUse coordinates versus internal coordinates. Need to check that wording still makes sense after replacing.

Chris: I'll try to handle this, though probably not before republishing this week.

Should setting an enum IDL to an invalid value throw an error?

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/547

Amelia (describes issue)

Chris: Blink, WebKit, Gecko throw errors: but what happens to the value?

Amelia: It doesn't change.

Chris: Well, that seems sensible.

Amelia: I find it a bit confusing, as an author, to have an UNKNOWN constant that you can't use. But that's my only complaint.

Chris: And we have three matching browsers.

Amelia: And as Brian notes, it's consistent with behavior of WebIDL enum data type.

Chris: So what needs to happen?

Amelia: Need to find all relevant sections of the spec to update. I found three different bits of text.
... I can do that, eventually.

RESOLUTION: Setting a enum-like DOM property to a value that doesn't represent a valid attribute value should throw a TypeError

Character counting in text 'x', 'y', 'dx', 'dy', and 'rotate' attributes

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/537

Tav: After investigation, I'm even less comfortable switching to "extended grapheme cluster" or "typographic character" for counting, because it's just not clearly defined.
... Definitions can vary according to the particular use case, e.g. line breaking vs layout.
... Nice in principal, but needs a really expert approach.

Chris: So how would authors handle e.g., combining accent characters? Would they need to insert, e.g., and extra 0 value in dx?

Tav: Yes, as defined in SVG 1.

Chris: It's a bit of a pain for authors, who often don't have transparency about whether the platform is using precomposed accents or not.
... Have you got a response back from Behdad?

Tav: Not yet. I also pinged @r12a (Richard Ishida) on the issue.

Amelia: Goal should be to balance best for linguistics with something that can be reliably implemented.

`:host(use) > symbol` in a UA sheet does nothing

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/502

Amelia: A symbol is defined to be display: none by default. However, when it is cloned into a use element shadow tree (as the directly referenced element on the <use>), then it needs to display.
... Issue brought up has to do about how stylesheets match with shadow DOM content.

Probably needs to change to `:shadow-root > symbol`, but I don't know if such a pseudoclass exists.

scribe: because the symbol isn't actually a "child" of the use element, so can't use the `>` combinator.

Chris: So what can we do?

Amelia: One option is to go back to defining this in prose, like in SVG 1.1

Chris: Don't want to define anything using shadow-piercing selectors, since those are still very unstable specifications.

Amelia: Should be able to avoid shadow-piercing, by just defining the rule to apply within the shadow dom, with a regular `:root > symbol` selector.
... it means an extra user-agent stylesheet that only applies in use-element shadow trees.

Chris: OK, we can propose that & see what feedback we get.

Proposed Resolution: Handle user-agent rules for `symbol` with a special stylesheet & no shadow-piercing

RESOLUTION: Handle user-agent rules for `symbol` with a special stylesheet & no shadow-piercing selectors

Move Normative Appendices

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/520

Chris: Can this be closed now?

<stakagi> no

Amelia: I have a couple tidy-up commits to do that didn't make it into the merged PR, but I should close it today or tomorrow.

stroke-miterlimit: invalid value behavior

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/545

Amelia: stroke-miterlimit is currently defined to be => 1, but only Firefox enforces at parser level
... Blink & webkit accept any positive value, Edge accepts any number
... As @fsoder notes, there is no rendering difference between values between 0-1 versus 1

Chris: I suspect Firefox behavior is just matching spec, could be changed. Everyone okay with making it any positive number (matching Blink & Webkit)?

RESOLUTION: stroke-miterlimit should accept any non-negative number

Amelia: I can do the edits. But also need browser bugs filed.

Tav: And tests.

Deprecate type attribute on SVGStyleElement

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/411

Chris: We have a resolution, but issue is still open.

Amelia: Probably needs edits.

Chris: I can do that. Do we have a particular format for marking deprecations.

Amelia: (searches in repo) I think we mostly just comment in the prose.

Chris: There's also a partial interface that David suggested, matching HTML

Eric: Perhaps a partial interface IDL makes it easier to remove in a future version.

github, end topic

trackbot, end telcon

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