W3C

- DRAFT -

XForms Users Community Group Teleconference

19 Sep 2018

Agenda

Attendees

Present
Alain, Jorge, Steven, Erik, Owen, Philip
Regrets
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Steven

Contents


<pfennell> I seem to have audio issues.

Report back from XML Summer School

https://xmlsummerschool.com/

Steven: Good response to the XForms lecture there.
... slides here: https://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/Talks/2018/09-12-xml/

Markup Declaration

https://markupdeclaration.org/

<ebruchez> https://github.com/markupdeclaration

Steven: Please get involved so that we start getting momentum.

ixml

https://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/ixml/ixml-specification.html

Steven: Please give feedback.

Collapsing sections

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Sep/0000

Steven: If we accept the idea, I'm willing to spec it up.
... OK?

Erik: For group, adding an appearance?

Steven: Yes

Erik: OK

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to spec up collapsing sections

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2196 - Spec up collapsing sections [on Steven Pemberton - due 2018-09-26].

ACTION-2193: Propose text separating the two cases of id

identification

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Aug/0029

Steven: I rather like this way of doing it (even if I say so myself). Much simpler to understand the current method.
... Also divides the cases of IDs that don't exist, and those that are just currently inaccessible.

Erik: Let me type an example
... this is how to resolve IDs.

Steven: It also deals with the difference between IDs that don't exist, and IDs that exist but, for instance, are in a repeat with zero elements.

<ebruchez> <repeat>

<ebruchez> <input id="my-input"/>

<ebruchez> <output id="my-output">

<ebruchez> <setfocus

<ebruchez> event="custom"

<ebruchez> control="my-input"/>

<ebruchez> </output>

<ebruchez> </repeat>

Steven: Why not send an email.
... In your case, the control in the current index would get the focus.

Erik: My reading is that it goes to the 'closest' ID, and in this case it would go to the next indexed version.

Steven: That surprises me. I don't see that in the spec.

Erik: I need to look again, but reaching the 'closest' one, regardless of the repeat index

Steven: Please send a real-life example, we need to resolve what we expect from the text.

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to send example of IDREF identification

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2197 - Send example of idref identification [on Erik Bruchez - due 2018-09-26].

URI functions

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Aug/0016

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Aug/0023

Steven: This replaces a dozen functions with a single one.

Erik: Is the proposal to return an XML document or a map?
... you need to access the parameters

Steven: That's in my proposal.

Erik: I like the functions, as easier to use.

Steven: I'm not sure if I'm convinced.

Erik: The function names are at least checked statically, so you get some feedback. Paths don't give you that
... so there are some benefits to the functions.
... It's an API philosophy.
... Something I don't like in XPath3 is the parse function that gives a blob of XML.
... in the end it's balancing tradeoffs and preferences.

Alain: I do like maps.

Steven: I like them too, but we don't have them in XForms 2, and I don't think we should add them just for one function.

Philip: Agreed

Steven: If we don't agree on replacing the 12 functions with one, then we leave as is.

12.2.2 References to Elements within a bind Element

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Jun/0033

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Sep/0004

Steven: So what happens when you bind to a nested bind element.
... what do we think my example should do?

Erik: I believe that we implement what the spec says, but I'm not sure that that is what should be done.
... if there's no result, you get a null result; if you get one result, that is the result; if you get two results, you're back to a null result. This is not reasonable.
... counterintuitive

<bind id="a" ref="foo/bar[expr]"/>

<bind ref="foo"><bind id="a" ref="bar[expr]"/></bind>

Steven: I would expect those to work the same

Erik: I think that's the case.

Steven: For a <repeat bind="a">...

Erik: I think you had that in the email, and it's not the same as it now is.
... It depends on the number of foo elements, and that's weird.

Steven: So what to do we do about it.

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to propose text for selecting items from a nested bind

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2198 - Propose text for selecting items from a nested bind [on Erik Bruchez - due 2018-09-26].

ACTION-2195: Spec up instance fallback

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Sep/0002

Steven: This is a use-case I have a lot

Alain: OK with me.

Philip: Agreed.

Erik: The only thing is what events would be dispatched in case of error.

Steven: instance-fallback

Erik: A shame we can't map that straight to submission

Steven: What event do we get then?

Erik: submit-error

Steven: Oh that's a notification too
... I can live with that

Erik: Good for consistency.
... a shame it's got submit in the name, but conceptually that's what it is.

Steven: Any objection to using "submit-error"?
... Hearing none...

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to add instance fallback to spec

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2199 - Add instance fallback to spec [on Steven Pemberton - due 2018-09-26].

ACTION-2189: Define "bound value"

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Sep/0007

Steven: Done.
... Let me know if there's any problem.

State change events

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Jun/0020

Steven: This is suggested text for catching value-changed in the model.
... Other issues: why are notification events sent to different controls
... Do we need to catch the other notification events in the model?

Erik: For the UI part, we have a tree of control, and some can hold values and some not.
... but I agree it is confusing.
... if a node changes value, we set a flag (in previous versions of the spec), and then on refresh send the event based on the flag
... and also from the point of view that it changes value and back before refresh. Is that a value-change?

Steven: XSLTforms does not send the event if a value is set to the same value.

Erik: Binds don't record anything at refresh time.
... there might be a little more to it than saying "it also happens to the binds".

Steven: How do we move forward?

Erik: I do have the same desire to have value-changed in the model.
... can we graft the cotrol code to the model. I'm not sure.

Philip: Is there any overlap with mutation events?
... a value changed event in the model, is like a mutation in the tree.

Erik: Let's think more.

Steven: Talk more next week on this.

[ADJOURN]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Erik to propose text for selecting items from a nested bind
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to send example of IDREF identification
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to add instance fallback to spec
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to spec up collapsing sections
 

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2018/09/19 14:07:14 $

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Present: Alain Jorge Steven Erik Owen Philip
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Inferring Scribes: Steven
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2018Sep/0011.html
Found Date: 19 Sep 2018
People with action items: erik steven

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