W3C

Automotive Working Group Teleconference

11 Sep 2018

Agenda

Attendees

Present
Glenn, Ulf, PatrickL, Benjamin, Ted, Laurent, Harjot, Hira, Tim, Peter
Regrets
Chair
PatrickL
Scribe
ted

Contents


Topics for October meeting

PatrickL: any other items people want to discuss?
... first is F2F meeting in October
... any thoughts or opinions for goals

Benjamin: are we talking TPAC in Lyon?

PatrickL: yes

Benjamin: what we should have in our agenda in addition to v2 spec but taking opportunity to meet with the other groups
... align with Web Of Things, Consent/Privacy, etc
... schema.org folks. not just work in our silo but

Ted: agree, will find link of other groups meeting and start mail thread to hear suggestion

Benjamin: Web of Things have us listed as a group they are interested in meeting with

PatrickL: interested in JSON-LD and Schema.org
... tell them what we are up to and get feedback on us using their technology correctly
... agree a goal should be a rough outline for what should be in version 2, we covered most parts and should be able to start sketching

Ulf: absolutely

Laurent: I agree

Glenn: not sure if TPAC is the right venue but CCC has interop between vehicle and phone
... it can be used for collecting permissions

PatrickL: Laurent and I were part of CCC and could invite them

Ted: +1

Glenn: they have a shared key model, to allow owner to give consent for usage of the vehicle
... if a shared key is on phone, driver could be given alert of the consent given and prompt for input

PatrickL: that would be something interesting for us for sharing data with third party devices
... we have not discussed authentication methods yet for v2 of protocol and probably should beforehand
... and see if it fits. I already have someone in mind

Ted: I will see if we can pick brains of WebAuthN people for that at TPAC as well

PatrickL: we have our main goal and number of desired liaisons identified for TPAC

Benjamin: is there anything we want to present at the unconference?

PatrickL: I think it is more open to individuals than groups

Ted: we can bring up group concerns and worth checking what others are covering

Benjamin: nothing specific planned. WoT tries to connect varied types of things and we are trying to do so with something very specific

Goal for F2F

Revisiting profiles

PatrickL: Laurent made analogy to Bluetooth that profile Ulf presented

Laurent: I love the idea but want to make sure we are on the same page
... I think the idea of being able to segregate based on profiles is worthwhile

Ulf: we didn't go so deep in the possible uses in other context
... we see differences in signal and resource access and what you can do with them
... dynamic behavior of nodes

Laurent: so we have a single data modeling and profile can deem what you can do with the tree

Ulf: the data model is common as you said and I think it would be ok to access signal nodes from the resource profile and vice versa but you cannot do everything with them in both
... for example you cannot add or delete data in signal mode

Laurent: I like the idea, we should make use of it

PatrickL: for me it is clear

Streaming sensor data

PatrickL: streaming sensor data cf email from Ulf today

Ulf: the idea come up today when I sent that link in mail

Streaming Sensor support

Ulf: I have not been involved in discussions for supporting a data stream. giving it some thought my view was we probably should not try to send streaming data within API we are talking about here
... we coud develop further but would need flow control but not sure that is a good idea
... there are plenty of well developed streaming protocols already that could be well suited
... it got me thinking about the typical pattern used for streaming, you have data and control channels
... control is used when you need to initiate, close or modify parameters
... we could use our API to identify where the streaming server may be and how to initiate it
... it could possibly be solved with mechanisms enhanced in our model

<scribe> … new key/value function I proposed we add in VSS

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: we could add stream sensor as a new function there

Laurent: streaming as in media or any set of data that is sample based?
... audio, video, GPS transceiver
... if it is media streaming how far are we away from content. I think we use concept of external delivery network in ViWi
... how far are we away from UPnP
... this may be more controller aspects

Ulf: that is all relevant and not sure I have answers to your questions
... it was about one car sending a video stream to two cars behind it - alert of upcoming obstacle
... it could contain audio or any other stream. we could come up with a solution for generic data streams
... I think using our API and data model as control channel would be possible
... that would expand the number and types of use cases we would be relevant

Glenn: I have seen this in heavy truck platooning wherein the tailing trucks request feed from front vehicle
... I think there are proof of concepts from Volvo trucks

Peter: extremely interesting use case

PatrickL: a stream sensor if heavily binary based and not definable in a clear structure that would be something worth sending as a stream. we should avoid for things like GPS
... we have thought already on where to find audio stream
... if data can be structured (eg GPS) we should have in data model

Laurent: in some cases it might be too much overhead to use VSS and our access method. frequency/volume might dictate stream could be better

Ulf: I can see that

PatrickL: too much overhead on what data element is being notified, then yes ok it might a little bit better and not have a pubsub mechanism
... that is a special case, sending one type of data is something client would need to expect in advance

Laurent: pubsub can introduce latency
... in some cases it might be better to query the stream. I want to avoid restricting it at this point

PatrickL: I would want criteria for consideration clearly defined. we are sending string with key names and curly brackets, some overhead when sending over and over
... sometimes it would be ok to have a smaller footprint

Laurent: I agree clear rules would be beneficial

PatrickL: I think a common way to describing streaming in our API is worthwhile

Laurent: we do not need to specify the streaming protocol, give mime type and it is available to use or not
... some proprietary formats will want to use it

PatrickL: I could see this for radar/lidar
... these are streams of descriptions coming in fast at a high volume and not sure we could create a control channel within our solution but if so it would be interesting
... regrets for me for next week but hope to come up with a few topics to suggest

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2018/09/18 12:46:18 $