APG Sep 10, 2018 task force teleconference

<scribe> scribe: AnnAbbott

<mck> MEETING: APG TF Telecon for Sep 10, 2018

Alert dismissing and hiding

<jemma> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#alert

Issue #663

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/663

mck: need to know should there be any pattern that the alert gives control to dismiss?
... or disappear automatically?
... address that well and Issue #756 is taken care of
... close manually: nothing in alert role that suggests it cannot be closed manually
... alerts should not require a user to close alert

bg: confusing with alertdialog?

mb: need to make kbd accessible if close control is included

mck: wouldn't be in tab order
... current example doesn't close at all

bg: that's the intent
... alerts are used for problems encountered

mck: Bryan - not used for tips? Instead use 'live'

bg: if informational, don't use alert because interrupts speech
... use 'live' and 'polite'
... can see having close button if taking up real estate

mb: MacOS has nice notification settings (without screen reader)

mck: kind of annoying because they steal focus and when they disappear, focus isn't returned to where expected

mb: get shelved in Notification Center

mck: we don't see that pattern anywhere on web, right?

mb: correct

bg: avoid any stealing focus by alerts

hh: screen readers would need to provide the feature

mck; been asking for that feature for a long time

mck: users may want to shrink or dismiss

bg: alerts should not be used as informational

mck: will have section on alerts
... should we have 3 kinds of examples, one disappears automatically, two persistent and cannot be dismissed, three can be dismissed

siri: how different from nonmodal dialog?

mck: alert is within structure of page
... could but may want to avoid having in a region

bg: if spoken automatically, would include close button

hh: close button wouldn't have to be part of alert

mck: should we have 3 examples?

hh: would be useful

mck: : have to document when to use which version
... one activates on button press
... persistent alert next to text field alerts for max char count

mb: shouldn't be too hard to make

mck: timing of disappearing "too quickly"
... too vague

bg: no current guidance but suggestive based on how important it is

mck: get rid of "too quickly" if cannot give better guidance

jn: WCAG has specifics about timing
... single A requirement

<jemma> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-required-behaviors.html

mck: have toaster alert that disappears

<jemma> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits.html

jn: need user preference on dismissing alerts

mck: get rid of toaster?

jn: as long as used for something happened, it's fine

mck: say it is 'secondary' confirming action user expected

jn: without disturbing user
... testing co's - do you fail the alerts that disappear?

bg: depends on what's in message
... use alertdialog if shouldn't disappear

hh: more focus on session timing and importance of info conveyed

mck; alert that disappears automatically could violate WCAG unless... to get rid of "too quickly"

mck: can point to toaster as nonessential and disappears

mb: play around to see if works?

mck: build all into alertdialog page - already have 2 out of 4 there
... don't have good idea for one that dismisses

Toolbar Plan

jg: student working on making changes

mck: pull request this week would be great
... group needs to disucuss
... fix bugs in current toolbar or bring in new toolbar

jg: pull request by end of week

mck: accordion is next priority

jg: will look at that also by end of week

Future meetings and other business

October 22 and 29: No meetings due to 2018 W3C TPAC

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Present: AnnAbbott BryanGaraventa MarkMcCarthy MichielBijl hhillen jamesn jemma matt_king jongund Siri
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Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2018-Meeting

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