W3C

Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

30 Aug 2018

Attendees

Present
Anne, MaryJo, Shadi, Kathy, Jey, Trevor, Alistair, Charu
Regrets

Chair
MaryJo
Scribe
Anne

Contents


Issue 250: Accessibility Requirements: Updates requested (Shadi)

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/250

Mary Jo: We have 3 issues on the agenda today. We are looking into a tool to view pull requests, and expect to be ready for survey next week, when it is easier to review

scribe: This first issue is from Shadi's comments

Shadi: I think most of the text in the issue is just copied out from the spec

Anne: Shadi's comments are just the two in the bottom. It might be easier to open the attached document to see what the comments relates to

<maryjom> If it's easier to read from Shadi's document, here's the link: Accessibility Conformance Testing.docx

Shadi: It's section 7

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/files/2293796/Accessibility.Conformance.Testing.docx

Shadi: I had put in some proposed edits. What Moe has put in seems to be the changed text
... So she did integrate the changes
... The question here is SHOULD or MUST
... This is about identifying the requirements. So is it possible to write rules that does not list the requirements they are related to?

Anne: I think this is about atomic rules that are part of composed rules, but doesn't map directly to the accessibility requirement itself

Shadi: This might be what Moe has tried to do
... I don't know what Wilco's comment means, if he favors it

Kathy: Are we talking about that atomic rules doesn't always satisfy an accessibility requirement?

Shadi: If there are rules that are preconditions, they should be listed as exceptions

Anne: (line is breaking up)

Shadi: it sounds like there are valid exceptions. We may have to write a MUST for atomic rules and a MUST for composed rules. Or list exceptions

Kathy: Composed rules lets you combine atomic rules with an OR. I tend to require that the accessibility requirement is listed in atomic rules. But maybe remove the pass requirement

Shadi: The case here is that the rule is not consistent with, but still relates to a requirement
... My preference would be to list in this case... you MUST, in this case... you MUST - or list exceptions

Kathy: Are you saying that there is way to list that they are related?

Shadi: It can be provided in the background information. That is a side thing
... I am trying to be a bit more stringent on the requirements

Anne: My points have been covered

Shadi: I think the intent is the same, but I think we should rephrase to make it a bit more clear? Mary Jo, can we send it back to the editors with these comments?

Mary Jo: Yes, but I think Moe will need a bit of background information, since she is not here

Shadi: I don't know the bakground for the SHOULD, but I am happy to work with Moe on this

Mary Jo: I am trying to summarise on the issue

Shadi: There are two requirements here. The conditions for each of them has to be clear. This section only has two SHOULD NOT, so I can actually write ACT Rules without listing any accessibility requirements

Mary Jo: I have added the comment to https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/250

Issue 243: Composed or composite rules?

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/243

Mary Jo: Okay, so "composed" or "composite" rules

<agarrison> +1 for Composite

Anne: The comment is from my colleague, who's writing Auto-WCAG rules with me
... and who is native in English

Mary Jo: I am neither for or against

<shadi> composed

<shadi> composite

<shadi> multi-part

Shadi: Let's brainstorm

<shadi> combined

Trevor: "composite" feels better for talking about the rules, but "composed" says more about how they are put together from atomic rules. I like "composite" better as the adjective

Mary Jo: I am fine with "composite". I like it more and more

Shadi: Anyone feeling strongly against "composite"?

Mary Jo: This will be an easy one, then

scribe: I will put in the meeting notes that "composite" it is

Issue 237: Rule Aggregation - Improve example (help needed)

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/237

She wants an improved example for Aggregated results (section 16)

I think we discussed the first part, renaming the aggregation definition. Then it's just the last part left

(note for above: first Mary Jo, then Shadi)

<shadi> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/247/files

Mary Jo: So it

scribe: 's asking for a better example

Mary Jo: "Example: An expert evaluates a success criterion to fail on a specific page. When testing that page using ACT Rules, there are two rules that map to this criterion. The first rule returns no results. The second rule finds 2 test targets that pass, and a 3rd test target that fails..."

scribe: "In this example, the first rule is inapplicable (0 results), and the second rule has failed (1 fail, 2 pass). Combining this inapplicable and fail, means the success criterion has failed."

(from Example in https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#output-aggregation)

Anne: So the pull request solves the fact that "aggregation" is used for both composed rules and aggregation of results by removing "aggregation" from composed rules
... but the pull request doesn't do anything about result aggregation in section 16, so the example there might still be a bad one

Shadi: What Annika says is that the example mixes both instances and rules, so checking different things
... I am not exactly sure what the issue is here

Mary Jo: Would it help to write that it is different atomic rules?

Shadi: Maybe the easiest solution would be to rename it to result aggregation

Anne: I read it as if Annika thought the example was too complex, trying to do too many things at once, whithout it being clear what it is supposed to illustrate

Shadi: I think there is a point in this, that the examples could be broken down even more

<shadi> Example 1: aggregation over different test rules

<shadi> Example 2: aggregation over occurrences of a rule

<shadi> Example 3: all the above (aggregating occurrences and rules)

Shadi: So basically the same example, just broken more down, allowing you to follow it bit for bit
... I am still not sure what the requirements here are, though. Are there any specific requirements here? E.g. that is should be in line with the accessibility requirement.
... It is kind of implicit here, maybe we should make it explicit

Anne: and maybe if it is a requirement that you do aggregate your ACT rules

Shadi: I'll open an issue about this

Mary Jo: I'll add a comment to https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/237 about breaking down the example.

scribe: I think it will make it an easier read if we break it down
... Next week we will go over pull requests with some of these editorials, and then maybe also hit one or two issues

Shadi: Feel free to tell Moe to contact me for discussion

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.152 (CVS log)
$Date: 2018/09/03 15:25:18 $