<mck> present ann_abbott
<jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting
<scribe> scribe: jamesn
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting
<Introductions>
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting#review-apg-11-release-3-plan
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/APG-1.1-Release-3-Plan
mk: will do some trimming
... 150 issues - at least double what we have ever done in a
milestone
... December publication - mid December will be wrapping things
up
... 11 bugs which hoping will get fixed - some may be Overcome
by events
... only did half of issue 408
... haven't done with the menu bar - if anyone wants to take on
emulating what Carloyn did for the editor menu bar for the
navigation menu bar
JN: suggests we ask Carolyn who has recently joined the ARIA WG
mk: these issues don't all need
agenda time
... sometimes move along quicker if use some meeting time for
them
... editorial work will be doing most myself
siri: when talking about menu bar the way it is explained the example was with the font sizes.... there is a lot of misconception that we have to use those rules for a desktop application
mk: if you look at the menu and
menu bar project there are some issues related to that. This
was about the mouse behaviour
... would be good if you reviewed those issues
siri: sure
mk: a lot Jon has In
process.
... while I don't agree with the ARIA in HTML spec says - I do
agree that DL may not be ideal
jg: I have a student who can do that if you assign to me
mk: it is in the issue what they
should be
... will assign to you now
<jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/815
mk: would be good to stay in the scope of the issue and not make other changes
siri: are you still going to use the section element - or can use a div
jn: vote for changing as .little as possible to make it validate
mk: Jon - you added to the carousel example but not the pattern - need a pattern to go along with it
jg: for the carousel pattern -
really a composite widget. Button, tab panel etc. I drafted a
carousel pattern but we don't have a carousel role
... pattern I was working on
mk: we have an issue for a date
picker pattern
... there is no such thing as a standard date picker
... the newest form of combo box pops open a grid.... there are
infinite variety of ways to do date picker
... there is some call from the wild for a section which would
be titled date pickler
aa: not just the wild
jn: probably need lots of comments saying there are no standard ways.... etc
hh: there could be some general rules
mk: could have some recommended
things
... was the one you were working on grid based
jg: met - hopefully by next week there will be an exmaple
grid based yes
scribe: next/previous month and
year buttons
... using a textbox with haspopup - down opens
jn: need to consider focus management especially when close on mobile
<jemma> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/aria-practices-DeletedSectionsArchive.html#datepicker
jn: don't want to deep dive into this now
hh: will take window splitter
mk: for all the examples the RT
work is underway
... will be doing t a test merge into master
... want people to look at the tests when creating new
examples
... need to make sure solid testing is in place for all new
exmaples
... Valerie will be doing the accordion tests
... restructuring will be done... but here there are several
new ones that Valerie will not be oding
... others will need tests written.. Evan will be able to
advise on test writing
JG: someone puts in abc or something in a 1-100 spinbutton
HH: numeric field shouldn't have text put in it
if it is a number and it is allowed to be entered then value now should reflect it even if invalid
JN: I agree
CB: thought that it would read the value in the field - does value now override what is in the field.. when would it be read by the screen reader
if it disagrees with the number picker would it read value now or the value in the field
value now was added primarily for sliders....
siri: more used for seek in
video
... in a spinbutton if a user enters the wrong number need to
provide an error message
... why do you need to put anything in aria values
<jemma> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-valuenow
cb: the idea that you have 2 different values - value now + the actual value int he field
hh: optional? it is required property for the spinbutton role in aria 1.1... The textbox part is optional
mk: if you have a spinbutton -
the interaction is the same as a slider for a screen reader
user - unless there is a text field
... makes me wonder if a spinbutton without a text field
shouldn't even exist
... seems very arbitary
cb: was a thing we were trying to figure out
mk: best immediate answer to meet aria 1.1 is value now should contain whatever is typed
if invalid then invalid should be set
<jemma> +1
mk: does that seem consistent with spirit of spdec
Evan: a lot of the complex input types don't allow invalid input for their type
hh: one of the reasons they exist
mk: I think we have the answers
for the issue here
... lets move on
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting#wcag-requirements-for-tooltip
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/811
mk: ambiguity in the pattern is
that the pointer needs to be able to be moved over the
additional content without it disappearing
... it would have been obvious to me that this should
happen
hh: it is not always when there is interactive stuff in the tooltip
jn: reason is for zoom users
mk: do we need to make a simple
edit to what is in the pattern
... Do we need to specify about the hover
hh: need to specify that need to
add something to "If the tooltip is invoked with mouseIn, then
it is dismissed with on mouseOut." about mouseOut unless focus
moved over the tooltip
... we have made a statement about mouse behavior but WCAG
states something different
mk: the 2nd part was for tooltips which include interactive elements... there is no reason for keyboard users to focus that tooltip... there is no reason to make it focusable.
Github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/811
siri: depends how much content there is in the tooltip... to allow the screen reader to read line by line in virtual mode we need to allow focus to move to the tooltip content.
mk: in that case want the dialog pattern
siri: dialog pattern some screen readers will be in application mode
mk: if want focus to move to it
use dialog pattern - if don't use tooltip pattern
... Provide a mechanism to easily dismiss additional
content
... the such as seems to describe a dialog not a tooltip
Evan: does the triggering element
have anything to indicate it is a tooltip
... maybe a next button
hh: what does role tooltip actually do other than exposing a tooltip role to the AAPI
mk: tooltip role doesn't seem that useful to me... can aria-described pointing to any other element... what would anything do to this
<jongund> have to go
hh: I would expect virtual focus to be able to go to it
siri: if keeping non modal dialog then tooltip means that whenever hover it content should appear just on focus
mk: can't think of a reason why non modal dialog wouldn't work
hh: need a shortcut to move focus to it
mk: one of these patterns where
we don't have everything we need
... not sure what to do about that yet
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