W3C

- DRAFT -

ARIA APG Task Force

06 Aug 2018

Attendees

Present
jamesn, MarkMcCarthy, evan, jemma, siri, matt_king, curtbellew, hhillen, jongund
Regrets
Chair
MattKing
Scribe
jamesn

Contents


<mck> present ann_abbott

<jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting

<scribe> scribe: jamesn

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting

<Introductions>

Release 3 plan

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting#review-apg-11-release-3-plan

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/APG-1.1-Release-3-Plan

mk: will do some trimming
... 150 issues - at least double what we have ever done in a milestone
... December publication - mid December will be wrapping things up
... 11 bugs which hoping will get fixed - some may be Overcome by events
... only did half of issue 408
... haven't done with the menu bar - if anyone wants to take on emulating what Carloyn did for the editor menu bar for the navigation menu bar

JN: suggests we ask Carolyn who has recently joined the ARIA WG

mk: these issues don't all need agenda time
... sometimes move along quicker if use some meeting time for them
... editorial work will be doing most myself

siri: when talking about menu bar the way it is explained the example was with the font sizes.... there is a lot of misconception that we have to use those rules for a desktop application

mk: if you look at the menu and menu bar project there are some issues related to that. This was about the mouse behaviour
... would be good if you reviewed those issues

siri: sure

mk: a lot Jon has In process.
... while I don't agree with the ARIA in HTML spec says - I do agree that DL may not be ideal

jg: I have a student who can do that if you assign to me

mk: it is in the issue what they should be
... will assign to you now

<jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/815

mk: would be good to stay in the scope of the issue and not make other changes

siri: are you still going to use the section element - or can use a div

jn: vote for changing as .little as possible to make it validate

mk: Jon - you added to the carousel example but not the pattern - need a pattern to go along with it

jg: for the carousel pattern - really a composite widget. Button, tab panel etc. I drafted a carousel pattern but we don't have a carousel role
... pattern I was working on

mk: we have an issue for a date picker pattern
... there is no such thing as a standard date picker
... the newest form of combo box pops open a grid.... there are infinite variety of ways to do date picker
... there is some call from the wild for a section which would be titled date pickler

aa: not just the wild

jn: probably need lots of comments saying there are no standard ways.... etc

hh: there could be some general rules

mk: could have some recommended things
... was the one you were working on grid based

jg: met - hopefully by next week there will be an exmaple

grid based yes

scribe: next/previous month and year buttons
... using a textbox with haspopup - down opens

jn: need to consider focus management especially when close on mobile

<jemma> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria-practices/master/aria-practices-DeletedSectionsArchive.html#datepicker

jn: don't want to deep dive into this now

hh: will take window splitter

mk: for all the examples the RT work is underway
... will be doing t a test merge into master
... want people to look at the tests when creating new examples
... need to make sure solid testing is in place for all new exmaples
... Valerie will be doing the accordion tests
... restructuring will be done... but here there are several new ones that Valerie will not be oding
... others will need tests written.. Evan will be able to advise on test writing

Issue 704: Spinbutton: What should aria-valuenow be when a user gives invalid input, when should it update?

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting#handling-invalid-spinbutton-input

JG: someone puts in abc or something in a 1-100 spinbutton

HH: numeric field shouldn't have text put in it

if it is a number and it is allowed to be entered then value now should reflect it even if invalid

JN: I agree

CB: thought that it would read the value in the field - does value now override what is in the field.. when would it be read by the screen reader

if it disagrees with the number picker would it read value now or the value in the field

value now was added primarily for sliders....

siri: more used for seek in video
... in a spinbutton if a user enters the wrong number need to provide an error message
... why do you need to put anything in aria values

<jemma> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-valuenow

cb: the idea that you have 2 different values - value now + the actual value int he field

hh: optional? it is required property for the spinbutton role in aria 1.1... The textbox part is optional

mk: if you have a spinbutton - the interaction is the same as a slider for a screen reader user - unless there is a text field
... makes me wonder if a spinbutton without a text field shouldn't even exist
... seems very arbitary

cb: was a thing we were trying to figure out

mk: best immediate answer to meet aria 1.1 is value now should contain whatever is typed

if invalid then invalid should be set

<jemma> +1

mk: does that seem consistent with spirit of spdec

Evan: a lot of the complex input types don't allow invalid input for their type

hh: one of the reasons they exist

mk: I think we have the answers for the issue here
... lets move on

tooltips

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-6%2C-2018-Meeting#wcag-requirements-for-tooltip

https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/811

mk: ambiguity in the pattern is that the pointer needs to be able to be moved over the additional content without it disappearing
... it would have been obvious to me that this should happen

hh: it is not always when there is interactive stuff in the tooltip

jn: reason is for zoom users

mk: do we need to make a simple edit to what is in the pattern
... Do we need to specify about the hover

hh: need to specify that need to add something to "If the tooltip is invoked with mouseIn, then it is dismissed with on mouseOut." about mouseOut unless focus moved over the tooltip
... we have made a statement about mouse behavior but WCAG states something different

mk: the 2nd part was for tooltips which include interactive elements... there is no reason for keyboard users to focus that tooltip... there is no reason to make it focusable.

Github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/811

siri: depends how much content there is in the tooltip... to allow the screen reader to read line by line in virtual mode we need to allow focus to move to the tooltip content.

mk: in that case want the dialog pattern

siri: dialog pattern some screen readers will be in application mode

mk: if want focus to move to it use dialog pattern - if don't use tooltip pattern
... Provide a mechanism to easily dismiss additional content
... the such as seems to describe a dialog not a tooltip

Evan: does the triggering element have anything to indicate it is a tooltip
... maybe a next button

hh: what does role tooltip actually do other than exposing a tooltip role to the AAPI

mk: tooltip role doesn't seem that useful to me... can aria-described pointing to any other element... what would anything do to this

<jongund> have to go

hh: I would expect virtual focus to be able to go to it

siri: if keeping non modal dialog then tooltip means that whenever hover it content should appear just on focus

mk: can't think of a reason why non modal dialog wouldn't work

hh: need a shortcut to move focus to it

mk: one of these patterns where we don't have everything we need
... not sure what to do about that yet

end of meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: jamesn, MarkMcCarthy, evan, jemma, siri, matt_king, curtbellew, hhillen, jongund
Present: jamesn MarkMcCarthy evan jemma siri matt_king curtbellew hhillen jongund
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