Publishing Steering Committee Telco -- 29 Jun 2018

<dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

<jyoshii> join pbgsc

liisamk: start with Dave's topic?

EPUB 3.2

<ivan> scribenick: ivan

dauwhe: we are finishing up, some discussion of the last minute things
... core media type
... the quesiton is how does the process work now

<tzviya> s/...core media type/ ...opus as a core media type

dauwhe: per charter any change must be approved by the BG
... I want a conversation on how we would go forward
... in W3C parlance we should have a wide review, shout from the desktops, etc
... what would we do in a BG?

George: we are operating under an IDPF license
... we should use a process of W3C would be appropriate
... trying to follow as much as possible a w3c process would be o.k.
... a public review period, and we respond to all comments that may change something on the spec
... once that is done, we could go to a vote of the CG than it could be submitted to the BG for approval

<garth> +1

George: this models the W3C process, and sounds good to me

liisamk: you think that the vote should be in the BG?

george: yes

tzviya: the w3c process includes a wide review for i18n, privacy, security, etc

dauwhe: that is the rec track process

garth: I would say no, make lots of noise, but this is not rec track

(various background noises...)

<liisamk> acacia Bill_Kasdorf

Bill_Kasdorf: we do not have a general principle
... we want to socialize before we finalize
... we should (not formally) agressively disseminate it to get comments
... I think the CG is charted with finalzied it and the BG approving it

garth: I believe Makoto requested a 2 months review cycle, which sounds me as a fine idea
... it is good summer reading :-)

Bill_Kasdorf: that is certainly an adequate time for people to comment...

dauwhe: I would ask for a formal vote on the CG to go for wide review
... at that point it is not yet a BG vote
... 2 months wide review, we will respond all comments

<garth> +1

<Bill_Kasdorf> +1

dauwhe: at that point we will ask for a blessing of the BG

<liisamk> +1

<Rachel> +1

<dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

ivan: I am ok with that

<jyoshii> +1

ivan: let's be prepared for comments coming in that if we model w3c process then we will also need proof of implementations
... I don't know if we can do that
... I am sure that there are some people who I won't mention who will make this point

Bill_Kasdorf: I'm not sure if that will happen

ivan: let's just be prepared

garth: we set out on this to do this work more closely aligned with IDPF process in maintenance mode
... but this spec is bringing things in line with 3.0.1, and there are tons of implementations
... Google Play books, kobo, apple... you can make the case the entire spec is implemented

ivan: that's fudging things, but yes :)

liisamk: what do you mean by fudging?

garth: I don't think you can point to a single implementation that does everything

ivan: w3c allows that--it's feature-by-feature
... 3.2 adds things that are not in 3.0.1
... we must be prepared for such comments
... what we are doing here is still sortof the idpf process
... so if we are careful on the public message that we are not talking about w3c process
... that may help

tzviya: I'm not sure if you're familiar with testing, but I can show how we do the testing for w3c specs, with automated processes and documentation
... we'd need to create tests etc

liisamk: when we say wide review, do we want to use the international coordination body to help?

Bill_Kasdorf: yes, that's appropriate

<ivan> scribenick: ivan

dauwhe: we can use the language of the CG process, which actually controls us
... we are just doing some optional thing

<dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe

<ivan> ... I would try to avoid rec-track language in this communication

liisamk: George, Garth... how's the timing based on that thing we shall not mention

garth: the copyright attorney has approved language in the current spec with joint copyright, and the appropriate trademark
... he doesn't see a problem with proceeding

dauwhe: sounds like we have a rough plan. Cool!

garth: it's a smooth and polished plan :)

language around fundraising for EPUBCheck

liisamk: did anyone look at the rough levels?

<ivan> Chair: liisamk

tzviya: BillM was going to write the draft language for the fundraising
... if we don't have fundraising we can't respond to the RFP
... so if anyone else can write copy like this, please help!

RickJ: the other thing I mentioned last week...
... a few of us who know our companies will be contributing
... a statement from those people about money already being committed will help

liisamk: good idea

???: can I get a water for you?

George: I agree with Garth

???: would you like a sandwich?

tzviya: I agree with rick's comments, but we won't have a website without someone to write the copy
... any suggestions on who could do that?

Rachel: I have no experience, but I can put my creative writing degree to work :)

<Bill_Kasdorf> I can endorse Rachel's editorial skills :)

George: this is pretty straightforward. I can help

Rachel: thanks george!

liisamk: Rachel and George, if you can get started, it's easier to edit than write

Bill_Kasdorf: Since I"m not on the agenda... I've made some progress with external coordination task force
... I mentioned last time we've had a spread sheet of organizations in various parts of the world or interest groups
... with the name of the task force owner
... the BG was interested in getting that spreadsheet and using it for RFP and fundraising
... most folks were fine with that
... would the BG send this out, or should the individuals contact the people they already know?
... does that sound good?

liisamk: I think so
... Luc is on our taskforce

Bill_Kasdorf: just a progress report. When the appeal is drafted, we can help send it out.

liisamk: can we double back on fundraising?
... Rick, you mentioned that it would be good for people to make committments to get started
... can anyone get such a commitment before the PBG call next week?

RickJ: I'm working on this with the coresource team to get the top people there

Rachel: i can get such a committment

liisamk: I can't promise anything

garth: I'm 98% sure, but whether I can say something by next week I'm not sure

liisamk: do we expect light attendance on Tuesday?

Bill_Kasdorf: even if we finalize the copy on Tuesday, we should wait until the next week to send stuff out

tzviya: I don't think we're likely to have copy by Tuesday
... we need a few weeks to get the website ready
... we can talk about fundraising and say we'll have a website in a few weeks

liisamk: we just talk about it on Tuesday, and ask for public statements

Audio

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: I wasn't a part of the conversations about the audio task force
... did that work come up as a requirement?
... should we start it in the business group to get requirements?
... my concern is that kobo driving this as a quickly advancing part of the business might not get all the requirements
... and might create a side spec

garth: there are two audio task forces. one is synchronized media, and the other is audio books
... the idea is for audio WPs to work just as text WPs would work
... it has gotten a lot of initial interest and participation, widely from atypon to google to kobo to readium

<tzviya> audio TF: https://github.com/w3c/publ-wg/wiki/Audiobooks-TF

garth: what is going on now is figuring out how to encode audio books in the current wp spec
... I don't want to slow down the momentum in the WG TF

<ivan> current experimentation for audio in WP: https://github.com/w3c/wpub/tree/master/experiments/audiobook

garth: I know how screwed up audio delivery is, so I hope this helps

tzviya: I agree with garth. I forget who proposed the tf, it came up at the F2F
... the main idea is that audio seems to fit into WP right now, and we wanted to get that started
... it seems all the reading systems are active in the task force
... this won't address syncronized media, but we want to be compatible with that

George: the TF is focused on putting audio spec into WP, and it seems to be going well
... I think the requirements are there
... there's no synchronized media in that audio spec
... and Avneesh is quick to remind me it's audio with navigation
... my concerns
... 1. the audio industry needs something on a tighter schedule than w3c process can provide
... 2. In epub 3.2 with media overlays, if we don't have the text but have a nav doc, you have an audio book with navigation
... but I don't think the industry sees that as viable
... so I don't know what we should promote
... and MO EPUB 3.2 audio books should be easily converted to WP audio books

ivan: to add to what was said
... from WP point of view, the important point is whether it is appropriate for audio books
... we want to be sure we're not missing anything

<ivan> https://github.com/w3c/wpub/tree/master/experiments/audiobook

Bill_Kasdorf: re george's concern about timing for the WG getting to REC
... that seems to be a best practices thing
... should BISG do something?

Rachel: it's not on the list for best practices

garth: responding to George, what we have with MO in epub 3.2, but that's for syncronized text and audio, but I can't see that gaining traction in the short run as audio books
... but in the general audio book space, there's no sync
... and the audio rights may be disconnected from other parts of the book
... I think WP can string together audio files, and it could be a boon for publishers in time

George: you know that with MO you don't have to have text, you can have just audio and nav, and it's legitimate

garth: yes, I know that
... that's a valid point. Do we want to encourage that? it's an interesting question

George: if we don't think that MO is a short-term solution for the industry now
... we should make that decision
... then we need to figure out something that would meet that need, and it could be an accelerated implemenation of WP audio books
... knowing it could change as the spec becomes more mature

liisamk: we're in this place with a business expanding RIGHT NOW
... whatever interim solutions will settle down
... the people joining the market will be smaller and smaller
... it's just how do we get audio with nav out there

ivan: going back to liisamk's question
... the new version of WP in draft will be out in one or two weeks
... this will be very different from previous versions, due to having manifest serialization, schema.org, etc
... at some point we should have the BG look at this
... we'll need wider feedback
... and that would include an experimental WP audio book
... which might answer your concerns

tzviya: the business question comes in
... there's a sync media group, what WP is doing is just audio+nav
... maybe we should accelerate this, after BG review
... you don't have to wait for REC to implement

ivan: you have to implement before REC :)

liisamk: this should be added to the BG agenda
... nobody on the business side of supplying files seemed to know about this, or think something wasn't working

garth: some of the excitement is kobo and us and readium in the position of ingesting lots of audio books, and know it was a mess
... and we hope that WP could clean up the mess
... we want more involvement from the BG with prototyping etc

tzviya: Luc was interested in this, but didnt have the bandwidth to lead the TF

liisamk: I'm concerned about hitting the marks we set up about how we organized all the groups, giving people the opportunity to participate at all levels

<garth> Indeed!

liisamk: do we have an agenda for next week?
... RFP for epubcheck and fundraising and web site, and committments for funding
... epub 3.2 on track for wide review this summer
... international coordination with both of those things
... talk about audio task force
... and requirements for handling missing pages from print
... how do we start collecting these issues, and how do we develop best practices around them

Bill_Kasdorf: luc wanted to report on road map task force

liisamk: anything else for next week?

George: I would like to get onto the SC agenda a discussion how we transition our IDPF temp members into W3C

<jyoshii> bye. goodnight.

- DRAFT -

Publishing Steering Committee Telco

29 Jun 2018

Attendees

Contents

EPUB 3.2

language around fundraising for EPUBCheck

Audio

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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