<Thaddeus> Good Morning

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> scribe: clapierre

module 3 https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/thad-tools/tools/index.html

Lisa: need to figure out what structure to use Becky vs. Thaddeus

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/thad-tools/tools/index.html

Thaddeus: Not looking like what I thought.

JF: RawGit redirects to some other.

Lisa: I have the link…

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2018Jun/0017.html

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/thad-tools/tools/index.html

Thaddeus: Issue with IE. please give me 5 min to install Chrome

Lisa: we want to get ready for Implementation conversation, Michael put together a comparison with different ways to use the content. Action items 2 weeks to see if there is anything missing, you can open an issue or link to an issue where you can discuss about something is missing. By next week we could have the tables ready. at the end there is a summary leaving that to Michael to do.

<Thaddeus> i can view now

Lisa: put in our concerns, reminding Sam, John and Janina

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues

Lisa: probably go through the issue, not sure who said to go through the issues and labelling some.

Sam: I looked at this wiki. Couple other suggestions, it doesn't say how to put metadata in markup. Not sure if you want a different section it didn't fit the stream of work.

Lisa: It sounds like a new section. Janina was going to add a section on Media queries.

Sam: I can add a section and then let Michael reformat it.

Lisa: yes thank you. Sams adding a section on...

Sam: a lowlevel JS API, the other is a Media Query / CSS I can add a section and then Micheal can edit it to make it fit more globally.

Lisa: I am concern with JS is that implementation?

Sam: what I wanted to explore as an alternative, where do you put the vocabulary. different vocabulary architecture.

Lisa: it sounds to me, (we made a demo with JS how the user wanted things handled) but where is the author put this.

Sam: the accessible web manifesto. to expose ergonomics. I am not sure if … this may solve certain problems but causes others. I just wanted to put it out there to be discussed.

Micheal: It makes sense to discuss this on the list. we can discuss alternative architecture.

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to suggest we continue exploring features in the current architecture for now, and explore other architectures as a separate thread

<sgoto> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/76

<sgoto> links to the relevant discussions

<sgoto> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/73

Lisa: sounds good to me for now, please add a link , and post an email to discuss your new architecture approach.

Sam: depending on your goals this may be more/less valid. traditionally a lowlevel API. You are debating ergonomics, if you expose a lowlevel API, some other can come up with how to implement. Unless you aggregation or composition.

Lisa: it also might be better for a mapping point of view. HTML to low leve APIs.

Sam: include react it forms an opinion and maps to JS calls.
... by having fewer responsibilities you allows others to inovate.
... its more effective to allow other developers to figure that out. for example you couldn't use a ScreenReader for example. Thats the con to this approach.

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say this discussion takes us back to requirements, another separate thread

<sgoto> My list of alternatives

<sgoto> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/77

<sgoto> +1 for a clearer set of requirements

<JF> +1

Michael: I hear Sam to clarify the requirements, and host language implementation. We have not articulated requirements and do recommend we do that but that is a separate thread. I should be involved in that process. We should have a requirements document and move this discussion to that thread.

<sgoto> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/72

<sgoto> FWIW here is a issue I filed for gathering requirements

Lisa: going through issues and labelling them as implementation vocab. I think we need to be more specific. We need to have a clear label of vocab implantation discussion. to link to that wiki page. We need to do a first pass of the issues and tag them. Looking for people to do that.

Sam: +1 what Michael said. we should have a requirements or added to explainer.

Janina: the process requires us to have a requirements.

<sgoto> sgtm

<sgoto> that sounds like a great starting point

Michael: clear that we have incomplete requirements, and setting up a template to get us started.

Lisa: we do have lots of use-cases but need requirements…

Michael: lets not confuse use-cases and requirements.

Lisa: we do have to make some labels and tag the issues. Module and topic (vocab Implementation, …) Can anyone go through the issues and tag them according.)

Sharon: you just want someone to go through and tag each?
... if you can set up the labels then I can tag them accordingly.

Lisa: will create the tags for Sharon to use

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/thad-tools/tools/index.html

Topic 1: Thaddeus's github on tools.

Thaddeus: format / template, I thought I used what you wanted, let me know if I should use another. Michael added an editors note, and then there was a change of properties "defined values" instead of attributes.
... Sam indicated more of a use-case. Introduced Working ShortTerm memory and explaining that how user can benefit from this tool.
... Cross application would mean that Step indicator would go between applications, so it would be within one application.
... There is a missing end tag.
... the mechanism can link the whole applicaiton/website. This can potentially link different user flows and holistic view.
... Questions on Step Indicator?

<nothing>

scribe: existing technologies / privacy. Privacy - if we are supplying contact information that would be in the DOM, if we define users we want to have communicating, how would the user get that, if I am using Google contacts from there to this, and privacy implementations there as well.

Lisa: what are the other groups doing implementations doing?

Thaddeus: Web push notification similar to this Sam?
... looking at existing tech, would Web push notification work for reminders.

Sam: API allows publishers to push notifications to the browser.]

Thaddeus: someone could have a notification to their browser of an appointment or if someone contact them from another applicaiton.

Sam: yes that sounds like a web notification, it is handled via JS.

Thaddeus: was wondering if this is a technology that is already available.

Sam: that should be across all browsers. CC me on github issue, I would love to help give you more ino.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/thad-tools/tools/index.html

Lisa: describes the use-case and it is just as an example but the vocabulary and use-case is what is important.
... people can easily control how many interrupted for folks then loose their place, they can set a priority, they can set the urgency, and who can disturb them. Emergency, Moderate level of interruptions. etc. That kind of control is what we want here.

John: about the privacy, Sam raised and GPII, if an when authentication/encryption will play a role here. If contact info is in the DOM but maybe it is encrypted Just wanted to put a pin in that, GPII is trying to do the authentication piece.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about the role of authentication and encryption might play here...

Thaddeus: privacy laws and how applications act with each other.

JF: we don't want applications reacting unless the user give them permission. I am not sure how this wires up but we don't want to do this all the time but we do want it in an authenticated use case some how.

Lisa: we also dont' want the more vulnerable users to have less privacy.

Thaddeus: privacy considerations is complex. Many with cognitive issues don't realize what they are opting into.

Lisa: in using this that this may compromise your privacy.

JF: well does it have to? It may not with pub/priv keypair etc.

Thaddeus: but privacy reg. PII, administrative controls as well as technical.

Lisa: how we deal with privacy comes back to the architecture decisions. the application gets the user preference and its up to the application and the application could make the decisions, but that doesn't help and may be worse.

<JF> +1 to separating vocab like "Help"

Lisa: so what are the next steps. 3 things, do we want to make it the same template as help (separate out vocabulary)
... we dont' know enough yet how we want to do it, that this is the right thing to do yet with terms/concepts
... other is push notification and privacy concerns.
... what are next steps?

Thaddeus: Sam and I can connect with notifications

Sam: I would love to and reading your doc now.

Thaddeus: the Privacy views are complex and may depend on implementation.

Lisa: open 2 issues on privacy and alternative push notifications…
... look how others have implemented this, and think about implementation and overlaps and what is missing.

<sgoto> @Thaddeus, started to file clarifications questions to you: https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/80

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/new-format-for-help-module/help/index.html#vocabulary

Lisa: JF agrees to separate out the vocabulary like in the Help module.
... Use cases then use cases, and alternative content and help types. All the other content we just put it under the heading example implementations.
... I don't know if this works with tools, there isn't any vocabulary really.
... The only thing that could be a vocabulary is the status. what is interesting here is the attribute values.

Thaddeus: should i just clean these up? or should I use this other tempalte.

Lisa: I think just clean this up. coding errors I am not seeing it as a vocabulary.

Thaddeus: 3.2 I never new what the @@ meant.

Lisa: that is just our note to ourselves that we are missing.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/new-format-for-help-module/help/index.html#vocabulary

Michael: I pushed a commit to your branch Thaddeus. @@ (W3C shorthand for fixme) if you can sure add something. I posted a skeleton document.

Lisa: if we like the format then we can discuss if we are missing terms and like the terms.
... term names will changes and determine if we like the format. I can post to list.
... anyone have any issues with that with regards to the help module. Maybe Charles and I can discuss offline in a wiki or maybe a survey.

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Present: Thaddeus janina MichaelC JF clapierre sgoto Lisa_Seeman Sharon
Regrets: Becky roy
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