<mikeCrabb> I'm here but only on IRC

TPAC

TPAC this year; we will be meeting toward end of October. If you can make it, awesome and let us know.

Requirements prep

Shawn: Next thing, requirements prep. To get everyone up to speed. We've sent them to Alastair to get survey to working group at the end of last week so we could present during WG call today.
... Due to mixed emails, that didn't happen in time. We sent it but he didn't see it. Tried to get on schedule anyway and then send survey after the fact.
... Idea behind survey is to ensure people can see it...like people at mEnabling...and the prompt people for input
... basically just problem statements

<Lauriat> The problem statements: Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle. Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle, but may have too many (details in the comment) Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle, but are missing some key challenges (details in the comment)

<Lauriat> The design principles: Represent the direction that the Silver guidelines should go. Are missing some key aspect (details in the comments)

Shawn: Basically just trying to prompt for feedback.
... We had planned to say "this is how things are different" in the introduction. This is just high level draft, but wanted to get feedback and affirmation that we're doing the right thing.
... But I haven't heard back from Alastair, so I doubt we'll be on the agenda in about an hour. Comment or questions?

Jennison: Ddi you get impression that working group is up to date or that they'd need more time to look at the problem statements before completing the survey?

Shawn: Not really, but this is mostly to try and prompt for feedback. To get them in the mind set of "this is what is happening, is it in the right direction?"
... expecting people will say "it's super high level, it's fine, let us know when there is more detail"

Jennison: So you're thinking it won't happen today, it'll be next week?

Shawn: Yeah...and that will fall on Jeanne, because I'm going to be out. Maybe the Thursday afterward I would be around for that.
... I will keep folks posted as that moves forward.

Project plan

Information Architecture

Shawn: Going to skip to 4
... Peter introduce yourself?

Peter: I'm a Sr. UX Consultant from ?? for 5 years working with Alastair
... He's given me some documents to read up on. That's where I am at the minute. Hello to everyone.

Shawn: Welcome. Charles, can you speak to Information Architecture project and where we are?

Charles: Looking for someone to own it.
... found a Karen Shriver, she's intersted in volunteering. Mike Crab sent out an email last night with a document having reverse engineered current WCAG structure.
... perfectly illustrates point I made last Tuesday of having an outline of current structure to test our new structure
... this is spot on what I was trying to describe and super useful. I think it is essentially read to put against any prototype outlines.

<mikeCrabb> Hope that the document was helpful?

Shawn: This is the outline of the current A/B structure document.

<Lauriat> Outline of Current AG Structure https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f_IsDYjklM-jN_wzl8IMVPU5INkeOFKVBUJgkeMHgA/edit

Shawn: It was super helpful.
... for the identification of someone to own the project. Where would they pick up first?

Charles: My understanding is we can solidify on the actual steps that were defined in information design tasks document. We had some reordering and feedback last Tuesday. Step one would be to get all of the volunteer effort assigned to some of these tasks.

<Lauriat> Information Design Tasks https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hharMRHLrqALWjcBp9M_F-uZPEh73wt8Bgoe47Yfnjo/edit

Charles: I think my next step is to ensure that the contact information is available

Shawn: No worries

Project plan

Shawn: Okay, switching back to item 3

<Lauriat> Project plan https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10p-8-v-XqRllBaX_eTiXXvyyDYeft8GRiN3_11V3U0w/edit#gid=0&range=A39

Shawn: And that links specifically to the IA project. We moved some of the tasks from the planning document into this sheet. So we have a few things noted as far as assigned to and current status.
... I think we had two categories of tasks here

Jennison: Is the cloude one completed?

Charles: only for the Success Criteria themselves.
... not for techniques, etc.

Shawn: Thats in progress at least.
... Mike, do you have an update on...

<Lauriat> Status of "Create half a dozen prototypes, and check that we have a structure that is sort of usable"

Shawn: that is also assigned to Chaals and Jeanne
... neither of whom are on the call.

Charles: I still intend to update the original prototype from table 4 that more closely aligns to my original intent.

Shawn: I'll add you to the list.

<mikeCrabb> I was waiting on getting the IA in place to start making prototypes, will be taking the DB that I made earlier and then starting to mock up stuff with that in the next week

Shawn: Awesome, thank you

<mikeCrabb> Have also added in things to github in a pull request to look at getting a structure for people to add their own prototypes there

<mikeCrabb> https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/15

Shawn: Great, thank you.
... Is there a quick overview?

Charles: I think the main objective is the folder structure so each prototype has unique folder, index.html, and README

Shawn: That makes sense.

Charles: Is Jeanne still working on action item to have a document for Github process?

Shawn: I believe so, don't know status but she's been working with MichaelC
... similarly to how Mike Crabb did this PR, each person can create a branch and work within that..instead of forking within your own account and then pulling into master...which has its own issues.
... Think this might be less conflicting
... I don't fully understand it, but I believe she is writing it up along with the reasoning
... but I can email Jeanne to check in with that
... back to tasks

<Lauriat> Create a standard method of allowing others to cite and link to specific pieces of Silver.

Shawn: that I think is dependent on some of the other prototyping...as far as the new structure
... possibility it's not, but want to avoid situation other working groups have where links break constantly because they're generated
... don't know a lot about it, but some of the ARIA practices it breaks or links fall off or go somewhere else. we want to avoid that

Jennison: Is that a bug or feature? Would we have to pull someone technical or can we control it?

Shawn: If we use that system, we'd need someone technical to fix it...but that would fix it for everyone using it. Otherwise, we can do it manually.
... hopefully...
... We haven't really wanted to dictate a form or format.
... Mainly in order to allow flexibility that makes most sense for prototype
... one may be just an outline
... one may be a full HTML page showing struture and rendering
... could be a relational outline or diagram of type of information we're going to store
... haven't specified it has to be in "this format" so people can prototype however they need to

Alastair: It would be some kind of outline and rendering, but not necessarily in re-spect compatible format

thanks

<Lauriat> Create a standard method of citing and linking to other supporting documents (building on the WAI guideline)

Shawn: Building on the guideline itself, but linking externally. I'm not sure what the standard practice is.

Charles: One of the ideas I had with that is that it's kind of a pseudo styleguide
... not just the method of link to external resources, but identifying the type of resource. Ex. linking to W3 understanding document than different than research or public resource

Shawn: I agree that seems basically like a styleguide kind of thing
... this would probably be a good one to make sure to discuss more explicitly with education outreach working group. I expect they've hit this as much as anybody else.

<Lauriat> Establish rules for how search should work (what features) and what content, metadata, microformats and schema may be required

Shawn: next task

<Lauriat> Obtain a list of frequently used search terms

Shawn: Seems heavily related to the next task..
... we can probably just do it now, just need to know who to talk to to get that

Alastair: MichaelC would be a good starting point. He would know who to ask or he could have it

Shawn: I'll take that on.
... I'm going to reorder, since I think having the list of search terms will help

Alastair: I would ask in a way that doesn't assume they have them.

<Lauriat> Identify terms that would require definitions in a glossary

Shawn: Can someone speak towards this task?

Charles: I think this overlaps with simple language. There is an overall goal to write in simple language. There are some outliers like terminology that will be used throughout.
... so which terms need a definition and is that part of the outline or a central glossary

Shawn: May also want to look into how to have glossary.
... It would be good to do some usability testing on current stuff to find stumbling points.
... when you hit a word it takes you out of context and into the glossary. within the definition of that word there are probably a few other words that are linked to
... along with the goals would include avoiding that situation

Charles: Thats why I listed in Information Architecture

Shawn: Adding some wording to make that clear

Charles: A scenario could be "the sucess criteria around play/pause/stop for prercorded media" what does "prerecorded" mean?

<Lauriat> Drafted rewording: Identify terms that would require definitions in a glossary, and the structure/mechanism of accessing term definitions

Charles: if it can be provided in context, don't need to go down that rabbit hole

Shawn: That make sense?

Charles: That's good. Where are you writing these edits?

Shawn: Phase 3 project plan sheet where we have assignees and status

Charles: Ah, I was looking somewhere else

Shawn: And the last one...

<Lauriat> Create a list of names of disabilities and impairments

Shawn: we have it noted as started
... as far as I know this one is on hold.

Charles: Should we decide we need it, I will take that task.

Jennison: Can someone give me a quick history of why we created that list?

Charles: In case we needed categorization of them references from any success criteria.
... trying to make SC outline that didn't outline a disability but stated the problem. If a lower level of that outline needed to reference category, that would exist somewhere

Jennison: Got it

Shawn: I definitely liked that idea in table 4s prototype.
... I'd like to go back to the overall information architecture of prototype activities and finding an owner.
... sounds like we have a bunch of semi related projects
... some can be in parallel, but not others
... and not that great of depth

Charles: Angela sent regrets, but at one point she was identified as interested in owning the project.

Jennison: I think Jeanne was still following up with Angela is that was still the case.

Shawn: What I'm thinking is what we could do to handle this is have one person coordinating creating half a dozen prototypes
... and other folks running and coordinating searching activities like obtaining the list and establishing how it should work
... as well as glossary aspects, that seems completely independent of the others
... I don't think we have to have one person signed up to coordinate all of them

Charles: That's probably safe to say. I do see overlap between a lot of them. The glossary is related to tag clouds because they identify more complex terms

Shawn: Thought they identify often used terms

Charles: Fair point
... I think one person managing/overseeing all of these is too much

Shawn: I still think it's a big task for one person to create half a dozen prototypes
... but still need coordination to avoid redundant prototypes

Alastair: Anticipated it'd be split between a couple of people. Coordination between people doing prototypes would be good.

<mikeCrabb> Agreed - I'm happy to assist in coordinating prototypes and also to make some of them

Shawn: We could...for those working on prototypes...we have the PR from Mike Crab of structure where prototypes could live
... if we have people signed up to get notification of activity in prototypes branches, we could use that for coordination
... doesn't have to heavy handed coordination, just keep an eye on what others are working on
... just so people can coordinate and be aware of each others work.

Alastair: Sounds good

<mikeCrabb> Yup - a lot of it should just be a case of being on top of GitHub activity and making sure that everything there is working the way it's meant to.

Shawn: Kind of coming to conclusion...if Angela can't do it, maybe I just volunteered myself.

Charles: We also need to ensure when that status is given that there's an end path.
... not just that the prototype is being worked on, but that it's complete and ready to be tested

Shawn: Status shouldn't just be "working on it"
... whoever is coordinating should be in this call to give accurate status so we can see progress as it's going through
... for that task with half a dozen prototypes...
... where should we document how these happen and what they are
... don't know we actually have them listed in here

Charles: Do you want to scale the planning document with that level of detail or should it live elsewhere?

Shawn: Probably elsewhere
... some of it is getting into Github process.
... Projects under Github might be a good place to put it?
... I think Chaals had some idea of "here be dragons" about that though
... making a note to check with Jeanne and ask about project tracking in Github. If nothing else we can have different sheets in projects plans to track this...but not at the high level of our current tracking sheet
... we need something to branch out the prototypes, listing them, whose working, what's next, what's done, etc.
... will ask Jeanne about github possibility to know if it's a bad idea then we can go from there

Charles: Where should I share contact information for all of the volunteers? Just collect it in a Google Doc?

Shawn: As long as only visible by Silver folks...don't want contact information in the public
... maybe in project plan to get working draft folder

Jemma: These are volunteers but working with Github repository. Can't we contact them via Github

Charles: My point is they're not that far yet
... they've replied to an email about being interested. they're not necessarily part of the group yet

Jemma: Got it. We are in recruiting stage; not contribution stage.

Shawn: Largely, we have folks ready to go ,but that's part of "these are the projects and people working on them" or "we don't have people working on them"
... not clear which we've identified and which have volunteers working on it or ready to work on it
... with that we have next steps. Much is emailing Jeanne
... and looking at volunteers and how we can allocate them
... we have some open questions, like for glossary project need to do some research how current one works...if it's great, then great, but may need to investigate
... coordinating with education outreach working group...could be assigned to whoever does prototype wrangling.
... I've assigned that to prototype wrangler
... anything else to bring up today?

Charles: Is TPAC held at a hotel in which we would benefit from staying at or is anywhere nearby appropriate?

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html

Shawn: I'll send a link around to it; haven't looked in detail
... anywhere nearby is probably fine, but I don't know what that means

<Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152  of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/not necessarily in respect/not necessarily in re-spect compatible format/
Default Present: Lauriat, alastairc, kirkwood, jeanne, JakeAbma, Jennison, Imelda, Roy, shari, MichaelC, chaals, Charles, LuisG, Jan, Angela, mikeCrabb, JohnM, jaeunjemmaku
Present: Lauriat alastairc kirkwood jeanne JakeAbma Jennison Imelda Roy shari MichaelC chaals Charles LuisG Jan Angela mikeCrabb JohnM jaeunjemmaku
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: LuisG
Inferring Scribes: LuisG

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 12 Jun 2018
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)