Paul does roll call
Paul: we were discussing whether
to continue with the topics PatrickL proposed
... we have a proposal from Ulf for consideration at a wider
attended call to introduce
... BG summary
... AGL did a review of VISS/ViWi
Magnus: that is fine by me
Ted: when we moved to this rotating
call schedule we agreed to have the BG call second Tuesday of the
month shared with the WG call
... in practice we have only had a couple such calls. Wonsuk and I
have been discussing by email whether that works and if we want to
make adjustments
... today's call in the rotation isn't conducive to Asia and he is
not here
... he, our other BG chair Paul and I will discuss and see how we
may want to modify it
... there are two task forces that fall under the purview of the
BG, Automotive Payments and Big Data
... since the BG acts as an incubator it is possible to propose
additional topics you think should be explored and see if there is
common interest
... we certainly have plenty going on with the resources we have
but want to remind people of that and we are interested in hearing ideas
... the auto payments tf is formative, we have been hearing from
some stakeholders and collecting insights in these calls
... IFSF, NACS, WEX, Mastercard, JLR and others have been sharing
their views
... Ian Jacobs (W3C Web Commerce Lead) and I have been speaking
with other stakeholders and trying to determine the viability of
W3C Web Payments and other standards applying to automotive use cases
... we are hearing different architectures where it is not clear
how it would be applicable, perhaps in a hybrid solution
... I agree for consistency and to avoid user (driver) confusion
you do not necessarily want head unit interacting with different
merchant sites directly but going through a portal to enforce
consistent UI and therefore intuitive UX
... certainly our signals work is useful for payments, the data
has many uses including to help reduce fraud
... we are talking with the FIDO alliance on our collaborative
authentication work and its application here
... we will be trying to figure out the direction this task force
should take or if we should consider pausing it for the time being
... on the data tf we have only had a couple calls so far, next
biweekly call is on Thursday but shifted an hour later
... first call was to go over potential areas of focus, deeming
some out of scope
... we delved a bit more into data contracts and ontology on the
next call and hope to continue the consent capture conversation
started at the F2F
https://github.com/w3c/automotive-pay/wiki
https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Data_tf
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2018Jun/0000.html
Ulf: as mentioned I think we
should base ourselves going forward on VISS, however there are
quite a few benefits from RSI to take into consideration
... from the data perspective VSS seems preferable. in VSS we
may want to allow for service model resource elements as seen
in RSI (ViWi)
... VSS currently cannot support it but it should be possible
to have zero or more leaf nodes under a resource node
... in ViWi there is a registry of element nodes and in VSS
there is no place for that
... my proposal is to invent a new branch node type rbranch in
which the definition of its children, element nodes is
found
... rnode
... first needed a generic node definition. these are the main
additions and from a logic point of view, this addition to VSS
would make it possible to support similar model to how things
are done in ViWi
... you can have multiple element nodes under a resource
node
... we can expand this further and create an access paradigm as
in ViWi and support its query mechanism as well
... this way we can support both models and port resource data
models
... this would be a hybrid in some way
... I have also in parallel to thinking about this have been
working on a proof of concept implementation on top of
VSS
... beta level solution is ready and willing to share
Ulf: just a quick introduction for now
Ted: thank you Ulf for investing the
time into understanding the divide and working to bridge it
... we will have a more substantive conversation next week and
encourage people to read your proposal and the proof of concept
code you will be sharing in preparation
Magnus: I spent some time
investigating and was initially a bit skeptical but have also
spoken with Ulf on the side
... it is a great effort to try to bridge the two and have a
same model
Ted: as discussed at the F2F, settling on a single data model alone
is significant
... ideal we have a single method for accessing that information
as well
... I was asked by someone what happens if we cannot converge VISS
and RSI
... we are not at point to make a decision but the group can
propose one, the other or even both
... VISS has a head start on the standards track, RSI might get
more momentum from market share and impossible to predict
... I still want to try to merge them and see strengths each have
... there is a precedent at W3C to have competing specs published
and see which prevails in the long run
... for entertainment we have VTT and TTML for handling captions
and subtitles for video objects
... VTT predated but it is looking like TTML has more uptake and
what W3C won it's Emmy award for
... having two solutions is not easy process at W3C and would take
some time. ideal is clearly a single solution
... I will start a mail thread on this topic at some point. I do
not want to have a serious discussion on it yet but make sure the
group is aware
Ulf: I will provide my patch and instructions on how to make it run
Paul: some links were brought to
my attention about analysis AGL did
... they apparently also did an implementation
... a perspective from outside the group is useful. we should
try to get the people involved to share their view
... we do not want to turn this into a political debate
... mostly an introduction for people to read and we can have a
conversation later
Ted: I spoke with Fulup at the last
Genivi AMM, mostly on how to engage Japanese OEMs and Tier 1s
better and not about this.
... he joined some past calls on VISS/RSI when the group had some
meaningful calls comparing them.
... I will invite him and his
colleagues to join a call to go over them and encourage the group
to read in advance.
... I agree a somewhat objective opinion would be worth hearing
and second Paul's call to avoid getting mired into politics
... many have formed their opinions already and need to represent
their organization's interests
[adjourned]