<JohnRochford_> Jim, it appears you can't hear Laura and me.
<JohnRochford_> Jim, can you hear us?
<JohnRochford_> Jim?
<jallan> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/AdvancetoProposedRecommendation/
<JohnRochford_> FYI: I have only 45 minutes for this call.
<jallan> scribe: Jim
<jallan> Jim and Steve to work on Monday finish Hover Understanding
<jallan> discussion of the WCAG intro rewording. qualification for COGA, some coga needs are being addressed.
<jallan> jon: COGA saying all their needs not addressed. but that is true for all of the disability areas
<jallan> ... just wanted to bring it up.
<jallan> open item 3
<jallan> jim will review minutes and issues for fill out the list.
<jallan> ... many issues have been pushed to Silver
<jallan> jr: trying to simplify the language
<jallan> jon: see issues related to ARIA all of the time. Examples are very useful.
<JohnRochford_> Jim: We need to cycle back to the users needs doc once 2.1 is released.
<JohnRochford_> "cycle back" = return
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: It would be more credible if we can get it out of draft stage.
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: Perhaps we could suggest, to WebAIM, questions to ask in another low-vision survey.
<JohnRochford_> Jim: I talked with Jared about color stuff. He expressed interest.
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: I can reach out to Jared on the low vision.
<JohnRochford_> +1
<jallan> +1
<JohnRochford_> Jim to Jon A: Are there low-vision things we have missed?
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: We have done a pretty good job with the tech we have today. AR and VR will have to be addressed.
<jallan> personalization is an ongoing issue
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: I did speak to Google about Chrome and color contrast issues.
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: Filters can't be applied universally.
<JohnRochford_> Jim: All the Windows 7 capabilities for color contrast adjustment went away in Windows 10, and I discussed this with Microsoft.
<JohnRochford_> Steve: Some of that stuff is in the control panel.
<JohnRochford_> Jon A: People embed Chromium into a software app, and then attempt to make color contrast stuff work.
<JohnRochford_> Sorry, Jim, but I have to go even earlier, as in now.
<jallan> scribe: ajim
<jallan> scribe: Jim
<jallan> open item 1
<jallan> jon: discussion on pie charts and text. what was original intent
<jallan> glenda: graphs are one thing. if they graphic has visible contrasting text then it is ok. the individual pie wedges should be usable to low vision.
<jallan> jon: have a table associated with the graphic is a step in the right direction.
<jallan> jon: must have the text on the screen, or always include text. Thing communicated with color or contrast are communicated without color or contrast.
<jallan> ... things have morphed since the beginning.
<jallan> glenda: have techniques to make the GRAPHIC accessible. then further down we have the additional text.
<jallan> jon: read SC
<jallan> (Level AA)
<jallan> The visual presentation of the following have a contrast ratio of at least 3:1 against adjacent color(s):
<jallan> User Interface Components
<jallan> Visual information used to indicate states and boundaries of user interface components, except for inactive components or where the appearance of the component is determined by the user agent and not modified by the author;
<jallan> Graphical Objects
<jallan> Parts of graphics required to understand the content, except when a particular presentation of graphics is essential to the information being conveyed.
<jallan> jon: so if I have alt text is that ok
<jallan> glenda: alt text is not visible so its not ok
<jallan> jon: sounds like we have to consider the text on the page.
<jallan> ... what about long descriptions
<jallan> glenda: must be available to people with low vision, not hidden for screen readers
<jallan> ... could make an alternative version
<jallan> jon: questions - line chart with datapoint. does that provide same info as a graph. same issue with screen readers. do data points provide same information. or is it a trend.
<Glenda> http://adrianroselli.com/2018/02/github-contributions-chart.html
<jallan> glenda: 'art of alt', worked with Adrian Roselli - github colors
<jallan> glenda explains the link
<jallan> glenda: if AC were here, he would say the gray lines on grid are not necessary for understanding. Glenda would ask for lines, but if pushback then let the lines go
<jallan> jon: blind person has a table.
<alastairc> also if AC were here: If you remove the non-contrasting stuff, is it still understanble? Is inherantly a usability question, but so are headings.
<jallan> jim: the SC doesn't say anything about additional content.
<jallan> jon: if there is text, then the graphic could be removed and the text would carry the information.
<jallan> jon: revisit. MS may reject if there is a no text provision.
<jallan> glenda: but we will be moving forward. have added requirements.
<jallan> jon: personalization / customization by the user.
<Glenda> I need to go to the AG mtg
<jallan> sr: having text absolving author from contrast requirements.
<jallan> ... caution trying to clarify info in the understanding document. Subjective term "understand" in the SC.
<jallan> glenda: the only reason this is in the is because of text
<jallan> sr: the understanding could talk about big things Charts etc.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Present: JohnRochford_ SteveRepsher Laura Jim jon_avila Regrets: Erich Glenda(30min) Alastair Found Scribe: Jim Found Scribe: ajim Found Scribe: Jim WARNING: 0 scribe lines found (out of 102 total lines.) Are you sure you specified a correct ScribeNick? Scribes: Jim, ajim Found Date: 12 Apr 2018 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]