<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga2/guidelines/#intro

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga/guidelines/#background-on-wcag-2

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> scribe:Mark_Wilcock

Lisa: Today we are going to discuss the objections raised, specifically with the abstract and introduction.
... Andrew has made two versions of the introduction and abstract.

<AWK_> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga2/guidelines/#intro

Andrew: Firstly I want to highlight the challenges putting information into the abstract, so we have been looking into add this into the introduction. Additionally, we removed the statement as defining WCAG makes content accessible to all full stop.

<AWK_> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/intro-dits-coga2/guidelines/#user-support-in-wcag-2-1

Andrew: In point 5 user support there will be more information available, so in this section we are adding a second paragraph, specifically relating to COGA.

<Jan> wrapping up a call - will join audio in a couple of minutes

Andrew: This content may be moved again to make the document coherent in the future.

Lisa: I have a few nit picking specifically with the wording, I think it needs to be clearer, it is well established research. I think the abstract is misleading, the first section is the main section people read and I think these sections suggest that if you need to make content for COGA users follow these guidelines, but I think this is misleading.
... I think there needs to be more in the higher section of the introduction and more information in the abstract.

<Jan> Can someone drop a link to the text in the IRC?

John: It was written this way because our SC not being accept, and I think if we had more SC at A, AA this might be written differently, additionally I think it marginalizes.

Alastair: My suggestions are to include something in the layers of guidance, which should be for COGA, low vision etc. in another section not in the normal format outside the core sections but included with WCAG. I think if we can agree whats in the introductions then we can boil this down to form an abstract.

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to make a process suggestion and to

Judy: A few thoughts I want to clarify the overview information, the method we are going to tackle this haven't been fully discussed yet.

Neil: I think that the information is buried too low, the information needs to be shown upfront. There needs to be signposted. This content is not new, it's that the content is not adequately testable as decided within the wider group.

Alistair: Do you want this content in the appropriate landing page or introduction?

Neil: Yes, or as high up as possible.

<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag

<Judy> This is the link out from an the WCAG Overview page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag

Lisa: I think its important to have this information in multiple channels, as not everyone navigates the same way.
... We have a couple of places were we could go the roadmap, or the landing page of COGA, this needs updating don't get we wrong, I dont think this is a large issue.

Judy: We try to funnel people through the overview page, so this is an important section where this content needs to put, the advantage of this page it's easier to update than the specifications.

Lisa: I'm worried that if we remove our objection and our content is present mainly on the overview, that future updates could move our content below the scroll etc.

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to comment on the stability of the overview page

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> Following these guidelines will make content more accessible to a wider range of people with disabilities, including blindness and low vision, deafness and hearing loss, limited movement, speech disabilities, photosensitivity, and some accomidation of learning disabilities, cognitive limitations,an

Judy: The overview page has stay stable for the last few years, this would be one of the larger changes to this page recently.

<AWK_> Current: Following these guidelines will make content more accessible to a wider range of people with disabilities, including blindness and low vision, deafness and hearing loss, learning disabilities, cognitive limitations, limited movement, speech disabilities, photosensitivity, and combinations of these, but do not address every user need.

<AWK_> Suggested: Following these guidelines will make content more accessible to a wider range of people with disabilities, including blindness and low vision, deafness and hearing loss, limited movement, speech disabilities, photosensitivity, and combinations of these, and some accommodation for learning disabilities and cognitive limitations but does not address every user need.

<JohnRochford> +1 to that language better capturing the progress the W3C has actually made.

Alastair: I think other groups might object to direct links to a groups specific page.

<AWK_> Perhaps better: Following these guidelines will make content more accessible to a wider range of people with disabilities, including blindness and low vision, deafness and hearing loss, limited movement, speech disabilities, photosensitivity, and combinations of these, and some accommodation for learning disabilities and cognitive limitations.

Judy: I feel somewhat uncomfortable with that, but I feel like it is somewhat accurate. I like the more streamline version.

<Jan> +1 Neil: People assume if they follow the guidelines, they are done

Neil: I think that it's important to state that we don't address all of the needs, as unfortunately people think if they follow the guidelines they address all needs.

<Judy> JB: how about then.... "...; but it does not address every user need for these groups.

Judy: The more straight forward the better.

<Judy> JB: how about then.... "...; but it does not address every user need for these people with these disabilities."

Alastair: Are people fine with the abstract?

Lisa: Can we have a link in the abstract?

Alastair: A link back to the overview is present were this content we are discussing will be present

Judy: As far as I'm aware it's not best practice to link in an abstract, and these might be removed when index etc.

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> WCAG 2.1 is developed through the W3C process in cooperation with individuals and organizations around the world, with a goal of providing a shared standard for Web content accessibility that meets the needs of individuals, organizations, and governments internationally. WCAG 2.1 builds on WCAG 2.0

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> add: guindence for inclusion of people withcognive disblblilites that does not fit in this format can be found ....

Alastair: The point of the next section of the introduction is to provide additional information as far as I'm aware

Lisa: I personally dont mind losing the user support section, as users most likely wont get to this section, but I would like a link for additional information about COGA in 0.1

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> John r, john k , jan, shari mark, are you happy with this direction

+1 Alastair sugestion

<JohnRochford> +1

Alastair: As a draft alter the abstract as suggested and move the content in the latter section further up the document

<shari> +1

<Jan> +1

+1

<neilmilliken> +1

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> if i understood it

<JohnRochford> +1

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> +1

Alastair: Incorporating the text as discussed previously into the abstract and move some content from user support into the introduction

<Ralph> [thanks for inviting me to listen-in]

<Judy> [JB: heard at the end that people felt it was going in a good direction]

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