<Ian> Rod: Happy 2018 and welcome back
<Ian> ...would like today to hear an overview about the work going on at w3c around automotive
<Ian> ...what is vision / current plan related to automotive and Web
<Ian> ...Ian presented similar around payments last year
<Ian> ...useful to build shared understanding of the different activities
<Ian> slides:
<ted> W3C Auto overview
<Ian> IJ: What does it mean that the browsers aren't interested in implementing the standard?
<Ian> Ted: there are browsers available in vehicles (e.g., chromium / genivi)
<Ian> ...as to why the reluctance, might be related to fragmentation or business reasons
<Ian> ...there has been discussion of implementation in an extension
<Ian> ...this would imply a maintenance burden for security updates
<Ian> ...so in the end we are adopting a service based approach
<Ian> IJ: So no hampered by browser implementation choices?
<Ian> Ted: Correct
<Ian> ...there are also use cases where there is no UX
<Ian> Ted: "Can't cruise without tunes"
<ted> Ian: I want to get a better sense of the architectural tendencies for the WG and what that means for browser based payment approach
<ted> … if things aren't all going to be in a browser engine, then web payments doesn't make as much sense
<Ian> IJ: PR API is in the browser, so if moving to a service model (that is, with no browser) what does that mean?
<Ian> Ted: Many will be shipping browsers. One appeal of Qt is benchmarks; another is that one programs in (familiar) C
<Ian> ...many content providers are, however, Web developers
<Ian> ...and because they have apps, it will be easier to port them to Web than to Qt
<Ian> ..so It think you are likely to see both platforms in use
<Ian> ...Genivi dev platform is shipping with browsers
<Ian> https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=11567210
<Ian> ...so you'll see both in use
<Ian> ...let's ask the auto folks for their perspectives
<Ian> Gustav: It's in our strategy to have automation of payments
<Ian> Ted: Volvo is focusing on Android, using VIIS
<Ian> ...the project lead for that is working with JOA and also has a Volvo hat
<Ian> ...so there is an Android environment where W3C's spec can be used.
<Ian> ...Android also ships with chrome (which supports Payment Request API)
<Ian> ...so web sites running on chrome in the car can make use of the API for payments
<Ian> ...Ian drafted a PayAtThePump explainer to talk about how PR API might be used
<Ian> https://github.com/w3c/automotive-pay/wiki/PayAtPumpExplainer
<Ian> Gustav: How does the station/pump send info to the car (or user device)
<Ian> Ted: There are big concerns about hacking of cars
<Ian> ...there are multiple ways one could send info: QR codes, Bluetooth beacon, NFC, manual entry of data
<Ian> ...videos of Shell implementation by Jaguar suggest some manual data entry may be likely
<Ian> JohnC: I was involved in the Shell FillAndGo project
<Ian> ...I wanted to ask as a general question...are we covering in this WG everything to do with auto, or just pay at the pump?
<Ian> ...in IFSF we were trying to identify offsite vehicle communications in an abstract way
<Ian> ...pump or garage barrier or bridge toll or parking meter
<Ian> ...one of the things that is fundamentally different between automotive payments and standard web payments
<Ian> ..is the LINK to a nearby machine
<Ian> ...so car washing, tools, etc. are all part of the same story
<Ian> ...what is the scope of this group?
<Ian> ..in many cases, the transaction of interest may not be a payment (in that moment) but just registration of information
<Ian> ..and, e.g., payment might occur at a later time
<Ian> ...IFSF and Conexxus are interested in device integration
<ted> Ian: I agree with the architectural perspective
<ted> … there is a challenge in extending how people view the web. today they see it as using a laptop, phone or tablet interacting with web services
<ted> … here we are talking about the "physical web", tying the physical and online worlds
<ted> … there are benefits to using the web in these new scenarios. i am not yet understanding the acceptance of this new paradigm
<ted> … we need to hear people say they want to see this progress
<Ian> JohnC: I have 2 motorway tags because I use my vehicle on different tolls
<Ian> ...those tags are incompatible...and both need to be installed IN THE SAME PLACE
<Ian> ...and due to lack of standards I will run out of window space soon
<ted> [per John's other question - we are focused on pay at the pump as initial use case as a priority but are looking at other payment use cases]
<Ian> JohnC: Also, if you travel with your car to other places, your tags may not work there
<Ian> ...we need standardization to reduce fragmentation
<Ian> Gustav: There are some policy approaches to reducing fragmentation
<Ian> ...payments can happen through prepaid accounts
<Ian> ...there may be legal demands for the customer to be able to confirm a payment
<Ian> JohnC: Agree that there might be a variety of payment models (e.g., manufacturer picks of costs, or where the fleet owner picks up the costs and there is a monthly subscription)
<ted> David: I want to remind people of the essential beauty of the W3C Web Payments API
<ted> … it keeps the data for the user in control of their data. they can make payments without sharing sensitive information
<ted> … it can be done by a laptop, phone or vehicle
<ted> … it also provides a common user experience
<ted> … the common ux is part of the emerging web part
<ted> … payment itself isn't the most important, protection of private information and user experience
<ted> Adam: the scope we (JLR) want from this project is see the feasability of using web payments within vehicles
<ted> … we are looking at subscription model and this may be applicable. we are cognizant regarding keeping personal information private
<ted> … SPII Sensitive Personally Identifiable Information
<ted> David: that covers lots of things
<Ian> Ted: We chose PayAtThePump as an initial use case but we are interested more use cases than that
<ted> * Discuss Q1 2018 Goals:
<ted> ** Solicit real world experiences from participants
<ted> ** Increase participation and awareness
<ted> ** Complete Pay at Pump use case
<ted> ** Perform mock implementation excercise
<ted> ** Assess User Experience and Workflow
<ted> ** Conclude Gap Analysis, emphasis on improving UX and Flow
<dezell> Note: here's an example of a bad interface. I paid with a card to inflate tires this morning. The interface was not what I was expecting. It took 10 minutes to figure out how to turn the thing on. This is how UX plays here.
<Ian> Ted: We'd like to hear from companies here on real-world experience to be sure what we are doing is realistic
<Ian> ...at 6 Feb Auto WG call, we will focus on myriad data from vehicles into the cloud / data silos
<ted> ISO20078
<Ian> ...there are 3 activities: ISO (Daimler, Peugeot, et al)
<ted> Neutral Vehicle
<ted> Sensorsis
<Ian> Ted: I'll send call info to the payments task force list
<Ian> 25 January, 9am ET
<Ian> Rod: Thank you for the call today