<Chris> ameia, /msg liam to get the correct call details

<BogdanBrinza> AmeliaBR: the access code in Liam's mail is 317 917 611

<BogdanBrinza> can anybody hear me on the call?

<BogdanBrinza> yep, though I can hear everybody perfectly fine

<BogdanBrinza> I'll try again

<BogdanBrinza> keep trying...

<liam> now showing you as unmuted

<liam> now just blank, as white as the snow falling outside my window

<liam> scribe: Liam

[discussion of meeting times; Bogdan will send email proposing a poll or some better times]

<AmeliaBR> scribe: AmeliaBR

(Discussion of meeting time. Tav mentions that current time is a little late. Bogdan agrees to send out an email survey to determine a better time.)

<BogdanBrinza> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html

Bogdan: To recap for those who weren't at TPAC: We agreed to review SVG and separate out new features that don't yet have two passing implementations.
... and that means getting tests to confirm the two passes.
... I suggest following the practice we've used before, of assigning chapters to individual people who then take responsibility for driving edits and test development.

<BogdanBrinza> (taking over scribe duties while Amelia provides comments)

Chris: One concern with the changes chapter is that it shows all changes that were made, but some changes were later backed out and they're still there.

<BogdanBrinza> Generally changes chapter should track the changes

Amelia: it was written as a log. The final changes should be there, but it's not easy to see the net changes from SVG 1.1

<BogdanBrinza> Proposal - use the same mechanism and chapter owners drive overall chapter assessment in stages:

<BogdanBrinza> 1) complete test collateral against listed changes

<BogdanBrinza> 2) drive adding new changes and/or updating changes to catch up with unnoted changes

<BogdanBrinza> 3) make final assessment of the chapter

<BogdanBrinza> AmeliaBR: sometimes the decision can depend on existing implementations or lack of them

Bogdan: I think everyone on this call has a clear understanding of the content of the spec, so that's not a big issue.
... for owners. After TPAC, most of the chapters were temporally assigned to me. Anyone want to take that over?

Tav: I might be able to volunteer, need to think about that.

<BogdanBrinza> Chris volunteered for the linking , color, styling chapters

Bogdan: I'll also ask on the mailing list.
... I'd like to use the Changes chapter to track ongoing work. When we move to publication, we can remove the interim tracking information.

<BogdanBrinza> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html#linking

Bogdan: If you look at the Linking chapter, we just added links to the existing tests and test results. Using this approach, whenever new tests are added, add the link to the test to the line item that describes the change.

Tav: The HTML tests (linked from the linking chapter) are useless for us (Inkscape).

Bogdan: As we discussed at TPAC, we would like to have SVG test files whenever possible. There were no concerns from people in the room about using SVG references.
... Do you know how you plan to run web platform tests in Inkscape?

Tav: In past, I've done it using scripting and the Inkscape command line.

Bogdan: We'll need to figure out how to upload the results.

Chris: For CSS, the tests all have rel links which connect to the spec, and so we have scripts that can use that to find tests for a specific spec, and build the web interface. The web interface only works for browsers, but it also has a way to upload a file of results, which could be used e.g., by Inkscape.

<BogdanBrinza> Proposal: Since SVG working group is very interested in at least one non-browser implementation results

<BogdanBrinza> to try and make it more manageable for Inkscape I would recommend for chapter owners to reach out to Tav when they consider chapter to be in testable shape

Amelia: For moving forward, we need to make connections with implementations, getting their internal tests into the system.

Bogdan: For Edge, I can say one problem is that we usually use HTML not SVG reference files.
... also, the tests are often focused on specific implementation details.

<BogdanBrinza> Speaking of browser test collateral - in Edge we support something called "Independent rendering for SVG" that allows rendering SVG on another thread (another from main UI thread)

Bogdan: This isn't me saying no, but just warning that there are additional complexities in exporting internal tests. There are lots of internal complexities in SVG implementations.

<BogdanBrinza> The ask from the working group to provide more tests from the implementors is noted

<liam> [ github pull requests need to come from people who are participants in the WG; there's a bot in place that ensures that ]

Amelia: We've had some discussion on GitHub, where non-WG members have made proposed improvements. I'd like to make sure that we have a clear path for incorporating those contributions without legal issues.

Chris: I think it depends on the scope. If we're talking about whole new features, then that needs IP agreements. But just re-wordings and fixes, generally doesn't need it.

Amelia: The outstanding PR I'm thinking of is a significant correction to path parsing grammar.

Chris: That one is mainly blocking on someone needing to review it. But it is more than just editorial, too.

Bogdan: Maybe we could define a separate group, for spec contributors, and have them agree to the IP policy when they join.

Liam: The only time I've really had a problem was when a group forgot to ask for patent exclusions. Other groups, for significant contributions they have either asked people to agree to the IP policy or formally invited them to join the working group.

Bogdan: What about having a community group or other place for discussion?
... especially with the limitations on scope from the charter.

Chris: That might be a good place, for gathering thoughts on proposed new features, so that the discussion doesn't get lost.

Bogdan: Let's try to make this call weekly. Thanks everyone.

trackbot, end telcon

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152  of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15  
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Default Present: Liam_Quin, Tavmjong_Bah, Chris_Lilley, BogdanBrinza, AmeliaBR
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Found Date: 07 Dec 2017
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