<scribe> scribenick: rdeltour

Update on meeting with Silver TF and APA at TPAC

<Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Publishing-issues-for-Silver

avneesh: Matt compiled the requirements at https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Publishing-issues-for-Silver
... the objective is to figure out what's the best way to integrte these requirements
... requirements were well accepted
... issue of page numbers was discussed quite deeply

<gregorio_pellegrino> sorry can't find password for Webex

avneesh: Janina said these are not specific to publishing, but essential general requirement
... she wants to propose that concept to the HTML WG
... she's ready to go forward with it
... the main difference is that when we talk about screen sizes, it's more about reflowable page numbers
... in publishing, we also need a concept for print page markers
... a11y metadata was also discussed in great details
... as we know, included in PWD of WCAG 2.1
... the architecture of WCAG doesn't allow it to be a success criteria as in EPUB A11y
... Silver TF is happy to worok on all this
... good suppor from the COGA TF
... also support to have stricter reqs in future WCAG
... people also like the approach: even if it isn't conformant to WCAG, we're able to know the a11y features
... the concept of optimized publications was also discussed and accepted
... overall, Silver was thankful for the requirments
... about the timeline, 1 year to wokr on the serch and design aspect
... George, Matt, Daniel, want to chime in?

George: my feel is we have been succesful in integrating ourselves in this WG. we're part of them now.
... confident that we can engage with them on the things important to us
... we can have a meaningful dialog
... I think in relation to publishing, the 2 checking tools (EpubCheck and Ace) are an opportunity for us to emphasize some features and functions deemed important
... it may not be a AA requirement, but if we can emphasize it in the tools we can highlight it without needing it to be a WCAG requirement

Avneesh: a kind of reinforcement through the tools, even if it takes long for Silver
... the COGA TF also asked if metadata requirement work can be synchronized
... it's one of the other things to explore

Synchronized multimedia (MO)

Avneesh: MO were presented by Marisa, she explained what it means and concepts of skippability and escapability

<Avneesh> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/media-a11y-reqs/

Avneesh: APA said they worked on similar reqs a few years ago
... many of these thigns are on their radar already
... the text/audio sync isn't there tho.
... they sync requirements for text/video, audio/video, but not text/audio
... they suggested to look into TTM and WebVTT
... the problem with these techs is that there the media is the mastrer, but in our case text is the master
... APA also suggested to look at ???

<danielweck> is there a WebEx or GotoMeeting, I am unable to join the audio telephone dial in line...

Avneesh: the consensus was that we should be leading a CG were different groups can collaborate
... this topic was also discussed in the Pub WG meeting, where the concept of audio-only books was also discussed
... in EPUB 3, kind of a hack, but would be great to support it better in Web Pub
... aslo some discussing between Marisa and Benjamin about using Annotations

<George> Fwd: MPEG container media tracks synchronisation

Avneesh: George, Marisa and Dan also joined the breakout session on the Media entertainment WG (formerly Web & TV)
... media synchonrization can be a major piece there, our reqs were well received

George: I put above the subject line from an email they sent me
... they clearly saw the need for sync of text to media
... we talked about movie and screenplay, audio and text book being synchronized
... they're also looking into compression and packaging
... like the PWG
... we didn't bring this up, but they were talking about URL as the origin for Media "publications" (not their terminology)
... they need packaging and a way for the Web to start using these things
... quite a bit of synergy
... I will forward the doc that Daniel sent me

laudrain: I had a discussion with Cyril Concolato at TPAC, who is in this group
... it's a good group to follow
... Cyril is French, working at Netflix

Avneesh: Daniel, anything to add?

<danielweck> I am not on WebEx ... still trying to log in

Avneesh: Matt, one question re WCAG 2.1
... any question re metadata or is it going fine?

mattg: going fine, chugging along

Avneesh: anything on the page number technique you submitted on gh?

mattg: no, they haven't brought up the techniques yet, still working on SC
... so haven't heard anything specific at this time

laudrain: I understand that Silver will be more aware of ebooks as collection of web pages as it is today?

Avneesh: yes, it's integrating everything
... the Silver TF is based on the principle of "Web for everything"
... in WCAG 2.1, we already mentioned web publications as an example of collection of web pages

Geroge: I'm pretty confident that they're aware of colleciton of pages
... they're having problems right know about e.g. payments spanning 3 pages
... they're aware of this notion, even there
... the MPEG-type work was also the same kind of thing, a product that wasn't just a web page

Avneesh: yes, half of this is already complete

CG on synchronized multimedia

Avneesh: one way is to start a CG
... also the possibility that TTML/ WebVTT, or Media Entertainment can get us what we want
... if this is the case, is it worth creating a CG?
... my take is that if these techs work well, we can just provide a note for the WG

George: Ivan was the one who thought that the CG should be formed to provide a focal point for the development of the use cases and requirements
... and then shopping around for the technologies that may be used
... if we're talking to MPEG people, or TTML, or whatever, we can point to this document fom the CG
... I think that was what he thought about
... there might be some overhead, since we might need to integrate with another WG

Avneesh: when we made the decission of the CG, we were not aware that the Media Entertainment may take it as a serious issue

Geroge: is TTML and WebVTT inside ME?

Avneesh: no, ME (Media Entertainment) is an Interest Ggroup
... if these technologies are not applicable, the right way to go is to create a CG
... there's nothing right or wrong, we just need to make a choice

George: we want to bring in audio book publishers into the discussion
... a CG could facilitate that
... I don't know if audio book people would feel confortable going in the ME IG discussions

danielweck: there's 2 sides to this
... what RS implementors can do with the current tech (Web Platform)
... we can do MO, probably can use newer tech provided by browsers for WebVTT and TTML to improve our implementations
... when we talked to ME IG, I think that was their perspective too, that the Web already had the tech
... however, from the point of view of content producers, we want to make sure there's a proper declarative syntax (à la SMIL)
... being part of the ME IG, our voice would probably be drowned
... there's a bit of a shift in technical culture, when we talk about books, text/audio and beyond
... with regards to creating a separate CG, to dedicate efforts specificly for our requirements would give us some visibility
... just to complement various bits of info, I think Marisa and me are not convinced that WebVTT / TTML / MPEG-4 as a container, etc, is a way to go for us
... but we'd need to put forward a case "against" these technologies in our own use case
... we need to formalize this to explain how it's not suitable, provide a gap analysis
... we can use Readium 2 as an example
... replacement of SMIL there is just an experiment, a kind of 1-1 translation of SMIL in JSON
... works with audio but not so much with video

tzviya: just wanted to add that aside all the things Daniel just mentioned
... it's possible to redo the charter, but otherwise might be out of scope for the WG
... the point of a CG is to gather more people, not in the W3C
... starting a CG would be a good way to go (and inform people that you do that)

Avneesh: the only question here is wheterh we should create a CG immediately, or ask Daniel and Marisa to expliore the tech further

tzviya: IMO we can start already, it gives visibility. but it also requires some work (meetings)

Avneesh: let's wait for Marisa's opinion
... we can give them a couple weeks, then create the CG

George: I do think that a CG focused on audio books could be very helpful to bringing that community together
... it's very active, a popular media, and no real standard behind it
... I think it could be very useful

Avneesh: ok, let's go for it then
... these publishers may not be in W3C, so a CG would allow them to join
... I'll get in touch with Marisa and Daniel and see when they have the time to start it

George: we shouldn't overestimate the amount of work required
... starting a CG is easy, driving it isn't

Avneesh: if the point is only to investigate the tech, it's a time-bound CG

dkaplan3: expanding on that, if a CG is found, it should have a goal on a very specific product
... if the goal is exploration, the WG should know this is coming and expecting this work
... we should have an actionable goal

Avneesh: sure
... Marisa, Dan, and I have an action item to figure out the way to creating a CG
... questions?
... one question for Tzviya: is it OK to post info on Ace releases in the CG list, or is it out of scope?

tzviya: I think it's OK

Avneesh: also, we'll have a FPWD soon, no urgency for the a11y TF to jump in
... but once it's published, what should be our role?

tzviya: my opinion is that until we have more to the WD, this TF doesn't really have a role to the documentation

<danielweck> (I've got to move onto another concall, sorry! I think I am not needed in the remainder of this concall)

tzviya: until January, I don't think there's much to do

Avneesh: then next question, when should be our next call?
... do we need one for CG, or wait for early 2018?

tzviya: wait for Daniel and Marisa's input, maybe better to wait until January

<danielweck> okay by me

<danielweck> makes sense

Avneesh: OK, then let's decide on scheduling a call for January, then maybe create an adhoc call

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152  of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/???/Concolato/
Present: Avneesh dkaplan3 rdeltour George Luc DanielWeck mattg tzviya
Found ScribeNick: rdeltour
Inferring Scribes: rdeltour

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth


WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)