W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

13 Nov 2017

Attendees

Present
AndyHeath, clapierre1, Roy, lisa, Becka11y
Regrets
Thaddeus
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Beckyaa11y, Beckya11y, Becka11y

Contents


<lisa> logs: https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#logs

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#language-type-support

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#reminders-and-messages

<lisa> scribe: Beckyaa11y

<lisa> scribe: Beckya11y

<lisa> scribe: Becka11y

Updates from TPAC and others

Fiirst item - updates from TPAC

<clapierre1> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/10-aria-minutes.html#item05

minutes from Personalization / ARIA meeting late Friday afternoon at TPAC

started talking about prefixes but need to decide if going to be accomplished with RDFa/Json

discussion about if we want these attributes or not. Or, focus on microdata - that seemed to be what people were leaning towards

group seeking pros and cons of different implementations; wondering if we really need a prefix

Charles brought up timeline isses, group felt we (personalization) wouldn’t be able to be complete before reschartering

Want smaller group to present a realistic timeline and multiply by 3; it is fine if this pushes out into the recharter

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YiknHDDDdKBdwVTEpxwUpyCaQL_tnpp9CfDlFjCq16E/edit#heading=h.803zleyfz8or

Lisa pointed out that group did look into RDF and microdata and Lisa did create some example techniques

Lisa doesn’t see why we can’t go ahead with publishing working draft

<lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YiknHDDDdKBdwVTEpxwUpyCaQL_tnpp9CfDlFjCq16E/edit#heading=h.n8sq8t3ebanu

Lisa is concerned about not using a prefix - not using may make it more complicated

Can be used via microdata but need it to be easier to implement for authors and AT

Lisa stated that could have used mircodata and RDF for ARIA but didn’t because of more complicated implementation. Why would we want to use for cognitive?

Andy backs up Lisa on RDF and microdata increasing complexity. Sees prefix as a “brand” that helps people understand what it is for/about

Charles indicated that ARIA group wanted to know if we had researched alternatives - and it appears that we have so we can present that to teh larger group to get closure.

Joannie is asking for montly updates from aria sub-groups

Charles had side meeting with John Foliot - he has been talking to schema.org about having personalization as a vocabulary. Schema.org felt that vocabulary is at a higher/document level

Lisa mentioned that we did discuss this with schema.org at TPAC last year. We did have a section in spec about why we were not using RDFa but it was removed in latest draft - perhaps we need it back in a FAQ page

We are going the ARIA/attribute route so that is easier to implement. Charles did bring this up but it was not well recieved by group

Some of the attributes have an implied role: example - action implies button role

Charles agrees that FAQ would be helpful - esp. for people that don’t understand RDF, microdata as well

Charles - we need to split out what is at page/document level and lower levels

<lisa> ACTION: lisa ask joanmair and mihal for coodnation call as soon as possibe

and split out the two

Andy comments that people aren’t used to the vision of the user needs

and we need to help them think that way

<lisa> ACTION: charles make faq page with resions for commen desisons with why we need a prefix sections

group agrees that FAQ page will help us to explain the “mission” of this group and explain the rationale behind our decisions

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#reminders-and-messages

Lisa has been reviewing document and feels that there are sections that need more work

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#logs

may need a better data model for the reminders and messages section

example Help: more help - not everyone will want 3 different types of help button, would be better for user to be able to select the type of help they want. How do we let people switch between help types to get the one they want?

so need to think about alternative version - for example don’t want to say numberfree for each item of a train schedule - just want an alternative. how to select the alternative type?

and how to specify what alternatives are available

maybe we should no be calling things logs but rather history - more like breadcrumbs.

but need a language to represent that in a way that is machine interperable

Lisa is looking for someone to take a piece and propose a rewrite for that piece

Andy: systems without a built in history can be very frustrating - for example, how to find the BBC piece I listented to 3 days ago? pointing out that it is not just for cognitive

Lisa would like to assign out the different pieces to people and have them come back to the list with a proposal

Charles: we can do this via git and issue a pull request for the changes so Lisa and Charles will see them

Becky and Sharon to send Lisa times to meet for Lisa to help get them started

The survey results https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/101569/simplificationeasylanglitralnumberfree/results

Lisa will provide an orientation call for Becky and Sharon

<lisa> ACTION: lisa to codinate with becky and sharron for orentation and assign items

simplification; Becky provided some proposed modifications

Lisa - earlier the group had proposed this as importance but changed it to simplification. She is concerned that people will have issues with the name (simplification) and the 3 levels we have selected

<lisa> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/master/semantics.html#simplification-0

Lisa is concerned that we haven’t had enough people look at this one

Charles - there are concerns with simplification and that it will be marked incorrectly. For example if something is not correctly marked as important, a user may not see it until they try to submit - now they get an error and perhaps it is confusing to figure out how to resolve it

Lisa - we should put into the spec that anything that is required must be marked simplest

Lisa - we need to provide guildelines for implementation; for example to always include a More button

<lisa> ACTION: Lisa to make guidnece for implemention - more button should alwasy be availible

<lisa> how can a user alow specifc fields to have higher importance

Charles gives example of use case that may need more. For example, most people don’t need an address2 or address3 line but this should show up for people who do need this

Lisa - context applies to the address example

context implies what the user may be interested in

Lisa - are people happy with the word simplification? Are we happy with the values of simplest, medium, and low

Charles - perhaps a two tiered system? Do we need 3? Would a developer understand how to use 3 levels? We would need really good examples.

Andy +1 for Charles comment about a 2 tiered system

Lisa - we did go down from 4 to 3 levels

Charles - what if we flip it over and document the complex alternative

Lisa - there are some examples in the spec; send is absolutely necessary but reply all may not be

Gregg - when talking about whether or not something/some option gets shown or not shown - you probably need less subjective terms

<lisa> greag, this isnt just forms

required and all are eaiser to understand but not sure what simplest will mean to others

<AndyHeath> +1 fdoes it mean lower complexity (i.e. less) ?

need to continue this discussion for next call

<AndyHeath> the “+1 was accidental)

<lisa> add comments into the survey

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: charles make faq page with resions for commen desisons with why we need a prefix sections
[NEW] ACTION: lisa ask joanmair and mihal for coodnation call as soon as possibe
[NEW] ACTION: lisa to codinate with becky and sharron for orentation and assign items
[NEW] ACTION: Lisa to make guidnece for implemention - more button should alwasy be availible
 

Summary of Resolutions

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Present: AndyHeath clapierre1 Roy lisa Becka11y
Regrets: Thaddeus
Found Scribe: Beckyaa11y
Found Scribe: Beckya11y
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Scribes: Beckyaa11y, Beckya11y, Becka11y

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People with action items: charles lisa

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