<allanj> zakim clear agenda

<scribe> scribe: erich

<ScottWeb> Weeeeeee

Understanding Docs. https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21

JA: They've created a shell for all the understanding docs
... Chairs decided SC Managers would need to fill out the needed information
... SC Managers need to start working on them
... We can morph the wiki to look more like the understanding docs

LC: Have started mine, but can put in to the wiki

WD: Linearization is becoming narrower and narrower

LC: they seem to need to be narrowed to get consensus

GS: agree, but doesn't mean to just let it get too narrow, need to continue to push

<ScottM> Some of these issues affect COGA as well, how are they addressing these issues?

WD: Some things marked essential are not actually essential

SR: lots of discussion on Zoom Content, Alastair does great at separating minor differences, wondering if they can be covered under 1 SC

JA: have a query in about getting CFC on Zoom Content

WD: letting go of linearization, and limiting the characters, could prompt the realization

JA: I have edited all wiki and issue pages with links to understanding docs

<laura> Understanding Adapting text in Github: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html

<laura> In the Wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Understanding_Adapting_Text

Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG)

<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10

<allanj> gs: does lvtf make authors responsible for color contrast when the browsers don't do it right in the first place

GS: question is are we going to hold developers responsible for things browser doesn't provide (should browser vendors fix)?

<steverep> Can you catch us up on what fails? 4.5 or 3?

<allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-SC/luminosity-form-controls.html

SR: language about if author has or hasn't modified was added at the end, needs to be cleared up

WD: have a million developers who would need to make this change, 200 million people impacted by it

<laura> Should we be filing bugs?

<allanj> bugs have been filed on Video elements

GS: am saying that we should go to the browser vendors to make the change

<allanj> Jim will file bugs on contrast of form controls

<laura> User agent control: the appearance of the target is determined by the user agent and is not modified by the author.

<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60

GS: language I was proposing would parallel Target Size

<allanj> +1 to adding UA exception

SR: wording doesn't specify what consitutes a modification

GS: should we say the colors are not modified

SR: think that would clear it up

<Glenda> User agent control: the colors of the UIC are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.

LC: should it be contrast?

GS: we can't provide the contrast, only color

<Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC the user agent default and is not modified by the author.

<Glenda> User agent control: the color contrast of the UIC is the user agent default and is not modified by the author.

<Glenda> Proposal 2: User agent control: the color(s) and surrounding color(s) of the UIC are the user agent default and are not modified by the author.

<allanj> testing: if anything in the the stylesheet changes the color of the component or the background color surrounding the component, then the color contrast must meet wcag

JA: unless author has plain white page, and doesn't touch colors of form controls, then they have to touch it

WD: what if author changes background color in a way that meets it?

JA: then they are done, and didn't break anything

<Glenda> User agent control: the color(s) and adjacent color(s) of the UIC are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.

<steverep> User agent control: The color(s) of the user interface component and any adjacent color(s) are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.

<ScottM> +1

+1

<Glenda> +1

<laura> +1

<allanj> +1

<ScottM> +1,000,000,000,000

JA: we had mentioned doing research and sending out examples, is that still useful?

GS: I think useful, but may not have the resources

JA: may have some time and will see what we can do
... Anything else needed on this?

GS: Don't think so

JA: Graphics Contrast is in the current document without any problem
... The next time they publish another working draft, they will include links to the understanding documents

Font width

WD: have an issue with Font Family
... Not sure where to go with the response about including Chinese, Arabic, and about 95 total according to Unicode

SH: You might send a note to the nationalization folks

<allanj> CJK fonts are square

WD: please send the nationalization contact info

SH: ok

<laura> May want ot check with Makoto.

<shawn> for wayne -- internationalization interest group: https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/i18n-ig/ Under "How to Join", you have to subscribe to the list before you can send a message...

<allanj> steve: So do we not want to add a buffer to character spacing? I'd be more comfortable if we do.we already have *letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 em in https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78

<allanj> sr: if user changes letter spacing and font size, will they still pass the SC

GS: have a question about updating the understanding document
... went in to make the change, and link says you can't commit to the master because it's a protected branch

JA: I put the wrong link in, and will fix it

<allanj> wd: letter spacing and font changes are about 20% container width

<laura> Understanding Adapting text: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html

WD: what if we put limits on the font length and authors could be allowed to change fonts within that range

<allanj> wd: verdana is about the widest "normal" font

<allanj> wd: font can't vary more than 1% from Norm. if user chooses a wider font .... it is on them

WD: Would say maximum range we would allow would probably be less variance than changes in resolution developers already need to deal with
... my proposal would be to set a limit, and I can do the due diligence

JA: How are we doing on Icon Fonts?

<laura> Add technique for identifying CSS generated content-images #297 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/297

SR: I don't think that adding role=img is the best fallback

<allanj> laura and Wayne will work on fonts for Adapting Text #78

icon fonts

<laura> Providing a Semantically Identified Icon Font with role=img

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg

SR: realy think it should be tied to 1.3.1

<allanj> SR: trying to make it a technique for 1.3.1

<allanj> sr: many problems with accessibility support. things that work from screen reader work differently with zoomtext.

<allanj> .... also with aria-hidden,

<allanj> SR: need to push role=img on icons

<allanj> wd: what about abbr?

<allanj> SR: then identifying as text, issues with emoticon and others

<allanj> ... if its a graphic should be marked as a graphic.

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg

<allanj> ja: there is overlapping conflicts with accessibility for one group interfering with accessibility for a different group

WD: from this discussion, we need more refined semantics

<allanj> ... aria- stuff is hidden, overrides visual labels for speech input folks.

<allanj> ... mouse over behaviour is different from screen reader behavior

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