See also: IRC log
<Kim> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
<Kim> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2016May/
<scribe> scribe:jon_avila
kim: at the end of the minutes last time we had some items in IRC within the minutes that was not on the phone call
marc: are we solving barriers or
just added extra work. Thought is was a good one - but
interested in hearing other side.
... we haven't talked through yet as David put this
together
alistair: had question about language related to manipulation related to drawing
jeanne: exception may not be applicable
marc: exception seems to include drawing
jeanne: applicable to keyboard but not for device manipulation
kim: swipe isn't a particular path
alistair: we are aiming to better define this but gone to far
jeanne: copied straight from keyboard exception
alistair: talk about touch in one part and then device manipulation in another -- perhaps say non-touch
kim: device manipulation definition was changed as well by David
alistair: what you are describing
across the screen with pressure seems like touch not related to
device manipulation
... 2.6 would be around non-screen elements of device so each
have their right space
Kim: let's look at device manipulation defintion, what do folks think about that?
<jeanne> When device manipulation gestures are provided, a mechanism is available to operate these functions via touch, except where the underlying function requires input that cannot be provided through the touch interface.
alistair: would take out force touch
<jeanne> version of defintiion from document: Moving or controlling the device with hands, body or machine. Device manipulation includes other methods of controling input to the mobile device outside of using the touch screen. This includes: pressing a physical button on the device, shaking, holding, proximity, touch, walking, angle of holding, input via the accelerometer etc. Gestures to the camera
<jeanne> and voice input to the microphone are addressed separately.
<jeanne> Moving or controlling the device with hands, body or machine. Device manipulation includes other methods of controling input to the mobile device outside of using the touch screen. This includes: pressing a physical button on the device, shaking, holding, proximity, walking, angle of holding, input via the accelerometer etc. Gestures to the camera and voice input to the microphone are
<jeanne> addressed separately.
alistair: touch operable control options are available
jeanne: what about a step counter -- you can't get it into phone. GPS or angle from accelerometer
alistair: if you can manipulate it with a hand then it must support touch. Step counter is a good example.
jeanne: one we must have is things like a shake to undue.
kim: control and data
<jeanne> control vs. input. Input can have an exception, for physical features of the phone.
alistair: can we say when feasible?
Jon: don't think we can use language like that
jeanne: except where the underlying function has input that cannot be provided through the touch interface.
alistair: that is getting there
jeanne: what about in air gestures
jon: do we need an exception for assistive technology
kim: try to think of example where air gestures could not be done with control
jeanne: looking for a control that may not work without touch
alistair: +1 to it -- could send out to list
kim: let's update the wiki
alistair: we aren't really talking about the physical features of a phone - not talking about a loop - perhaps change to something like physically interact
jeanne; I like it -- can you type it in
<Alistair> Alistair: Guideline 2.6: Make it easier to physically interact with the device
jon: suggest not focus on interacting with device with interacting with the content without relying physical features of device
alistair: should take a look at the guidelines as a whole
kim: added in Jeanne clause in wiki
alistair: add underlying function
requires input that cannot be provided by the touch
interface
... what do you mean by drawing -- drawing on the touch
interface?
... unless you are drawing in the air then it is provided by
the touch interface
kim: thinking about pressure data provided by device
alistair: could be
confusion
... other things could be barometric pressure, etc. anything
that you can't emulate in touch
... should move force touch over to touch side
kim: would that be in another
SC?
... should it be through failures here?
alistair: my view into -- we find
new concepts and then try to find places to put them into and
then we flesh those out and then find out they are prickly and
then damage the area we put them into.
... let's talk about force touch in isolation
kim: what do you people think about ti? I like it. What are other areas, e.g. speech
jeanne: agree that we should focus on the criteria of the success criteria
kim: do we agree to take force touch and touch out
jon: agree to remove
<jeanne> +1 for removing touch and force touch from the definition of device manipulation.
RESOLUTION: remove force touch and touch from definition of device manipulation
kim: david is not here -- send 2.6.1 to the list
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to send revision of 2.6.1 to list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Send revision of 2.6.1 to list. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-06-09].
<jeanne> +1 for alastairs critique of the wording for 2.6 guideline
alistair: should update guideline name --
kim: keep in mind title of page is old version -- so put proposal in wiki
trackbot, end meeting
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