Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

16 Mar 2016

See also: IRC log


Janina, fesch, LJWatson, MichaelC, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, JF
Michiel, Mary_Jo, Gottfried


<scribe> ScribeNick: ShaneM

preview agenda with items from two minutes

janina: moved the agenda around a little.

Cyns: At CSun Cynthia and some others will be doing a panel talk about Edge. 1 pm on Wednesday.
... Should have a bunch of changes to accname coming in as a PR soon.

<Rich> prest+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger

LJWatson: bug triage meeting for a11y stuff in web platform thursday at 15:00 UTC
... migrating issues from bugzilla into github

No call 23 March; Next APA call is 30 March

Web Payments Teleconference Time -- Shane, Janina

janina: only 3 responses of who will participate. Janina, Katie, and Shane

<michael looks at poll>

Monday at 1 pm is the best

Starting 4 April meet at 1 pm mondays to work on PAUR

Michael to set up webex

CSS Next Steps

If there are people at CSun who can assist in working with CSS we should recruit them.

Beyond that, are there any thoughts on how we should move forward?


<cyns> Will continue to work internally with Rossen, who is on the same team as me

ShaneM: asked about outstanding issues

<cyns> oh and my CSUN talk is at 11:00 not 1pm!

Janina: Matt King asked that we nail it down.

Maybe we should get involved in a mappings guide for the key aspects of CSS that apply to reading order.

scribe: and possibly something about keyboard mappings.

If there was something we could do about best practices to help ATs work well with CSS features, that might be useful too.

fesch: They really need to fill the hole between their new features and the mappings.

janina: they may not know enough about how to do that. We would need to help with it.
... and we are already overburdened with all of the AAMs already.

fesch: Might get ARIA to do that work.

janina: Yes - Rich thought so as well but wasn't very excited about it.

fesch: Not to do the work; just help CSS understand what they need to do.

Rich: Yes, the group is buried. There are 5 mapping specs. The ARIA spec, DPub, Graphics.

janina: and also Personalization...

Rich: it is somewhat difficult to work with the different mindset. There may not be energy to do that.

janina: the best way to help with mindset changes is dialog. If we need more energy we need more people!

Rich: there's a lot of additional data coming down the pipe. Personalization, web components, the indie ui pieces...
... There was an assumption that CSS wanted media queries. In the last meeting it seems that is no longer the case.
... maybe the thing to do is coordinate with the TAG a way to have some sort of announcement and selection mechanism.

W3C Spec Styling Issues -- Michael

All sorts of styling issues with the new w3c house styles

Surprised by about the ToC on the left.

ShaneM: JF you reviewed the A11Y of new w3c house styles. opinions?

Floating ToC has its utility.

cyns: I like the new ToC.

JF: I had some concerns about colors. Color contrast requirements. That was the feedback I provided.

MichaelC: did we have the opportunity to review?

JF: we had it. Did we do it? Formally? I don't know.

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to talk about the a11y of layout

MichaelC: visual presentation a11y is something we care about too.
... concerned about keyboard a11y of the Toc and its widgets

cyns: Having the ToC there all the time is a major win for reading disabilities.

ShaneM: ToC widgets are at the top of the DOM
... so keyboard navigation is something that may not be super intuitive.

Rich: the registered trademark is not legible in the logo

JF: images are exempt from color contrast

janina: we should identify and report bugs and things that are problematic.
... next time I will chase more groups about review

Accessible SVG in W3C Specs

ShaneM: how can we produce accessible diagrams using SVG today?

fesch: we are looking at this in the task force. Some of them are very very hard to do anything good.
... but if there is one you can assign a task to someone in the task force to assist with making it accessible.
... some are relatively easy. Some are so difficult it causes redoing the whole graphic.
... we are looking at producing an authoring document to assist people.

cyns: are there WCAG techniques for SVG?

MichaelC: no.

fesch: I forgot to do that. I am supposed to start a new one and people are going to start populating it. But it will not be useful until ARIA 1.1 is released.
... anytime we see one throw it over the fence and someone will eventually get to it.

JF: this problem is not exclusive to SVG.
... we steer people to using SVG, but PNG and other formats are being embedded and those are not accessible either.
... there is a heavy usage of imagery now. And those might not even have alt text or longer descriptions.

janina: we should put our foot down. The documents must be accessible. Everything should have alt at the very least. We should be encouraging people to drop PNG and JPEG in favor of SVG.

JF: do we have a resource that we can point people to
... sometimes we talk about guidance to working groups. THis is the sort of thing that we should be providing guidance on.
... is there a technical resource so we can "teach them to fish"?

cyns: There's two things. 1) it is just a web page and they should be using WCAG and there should be techniques.

Rich: implementation of SVG across browsers was inconsistent and incomplete
... so that needs to get sorted first before we can start recommending good techniques.
... walk before we can run. We don't have all the tools today to make the drawing accessible. And if we did, on some browsers it doesn't even get exposed.
... one thing we could potentially do is provide alternative text to drawings in the short term.

fesch: at one point I proposed figures and figcaptions in the short term. Some people on the task force dont like that

cyns: you don't need to have only one technique. fig/figcaption is fine. describedby is also fine. More sophisticated things might be fine.

Rich: There are holes in the SVG spec where it is not accurately specified what is supposed to be done (e.g., titles in multiple languages). We are having to fix some of that too.

LJWatson: I have some guidance I wrote a couple of years ago on this. Wouldn't be hard to contribute that to W3C.

janina: There is a page in WAI that could be a place for that document.

Rich: note there is no longdesc in SVG.

LJWatson: yes - that's why I said longer description.

cyns: WCAG techniques is the right place for this.

LJWatson: I started writing some but have not contributed them yet.

janina: I am trying to find the WAI resource so I can put it in the minutes.

MichaelC: is it a wiki page?

janina: Yes.

MichaelC: WAI tutorials...

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/

cyns: Is the stuff rich is producing actually what people making diagrams need?

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.144 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/03/16 17:02:09 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: ShaneM
Inferring Scribes: ShaneM
Present: Janina fesch LJWatson MichaelC Rich_Schwerdtfeger JF
Regrets: Michiel Mary_Jo Gottfried
Found Date: 16 Mar 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/16-apa-minutes.html
People with action items: 

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]