<newton> \me The webex message "You cannot start or join this meeting because your operating system is not supported. We recommend that you upgrade to a supported operating system. Refer to the WebEx release notes for information about supported operating systems."

<yaso_> Hi phila

<yaso_> The access code is 645 096 98

<yaso_> right?

<yaso_> I cannot connect :-/

<yaso_> phila: would you chair for some minutes, so I can find a best place?

<yaso_> (today is holiday in Brazil and I'm not in SP)

<yaso_> phila:

<yaso_> Maybe Its me, I'm dialing via hangouts

<yaso_> ok

<BartvanLeeuwen> hi

<PWinstanley_> Hi Bart

<Caroline> hello! The webex is asking me a meeting password

<Caroline> thank you phila!

<annette_g> Is there a new room number for the Webex?

<annette_g> That's the password...

<Caroline> this is the password Webex is asking

<Caroline> I don't know about room number, sorry!

<annette_g> For some reason, I get "invalid number or room ID" with the number I've been using

<yaso_> ouch,

<phila> scribe: Caroline

<phila> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes

<annette_g> If I just follow the link, it says the meeting has been cancelled

<phila> +1

+1

<antoine> +0

<ericstephan> +1

<BartvanLeeuwen> +1

<newton_> +1

<laufer> +1

<PWinstanley> +1

<Eric_Kauz> +1

<phila> REOLUTIONPROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes

RESOLUTION: Accepted last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes

<ericstephan> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html

update on data usage

dataset usage

ericstephan: last week I went over the details
... we need comments from the WG
... we put together about 6 issues
... they are in our email list
... from BP or vocabs we are using
... I won't go into details here, but I kindly ask you to check these issues through the email and send comments
... questions?

phila: can you give us a sens of the complexity of these issues?
... how much effort is going to be required?

ericstephan: 214 to 218 are simple
... one of them uses data quality metric and I am using a instance called ??
... there are questions like that
... it wouldn't need much time

phila: we should respond to that as soon as possible

ericstephan: we need that for the next version

phila: we need to get next drafts done in less than 2 weeks
... please read the emails and contribute!

<yaso_> ops, sorry

<yaso_> ok

yaso_: we have 10min for each vocab and then we should talk about the BP document

<scribe> agenda: DUV (10 min) DQV (10 min) * BP APIs * BP Sensitive Data * BP Content Negotiation * Examples * Other changes made in the document

antoine: I kindly ask for contributions on what is open
... one of the last issues that ws open was metadata
... metadata for datasets in a specif standard
... please if you have any considerations about this issue send it by email

BP doc

<yaso_> No problem, phila. The power has gone off in the place where I had good Internet due to a strong storm, I tried to go to a public place, but :-/

<yaso_> Thank You Caroline!

<phila> scribe: phila

Caroline: I'd like to give you feedback on some updates we've made

<Caroline> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html

Caroline: Some updates there...
... We implemented some examples
... examples in data formats, BP3, locale parameters, BP5, licence info, data prov
... so most of hte BPs now have examples but still have several that need (maybe half)
... However, same as Eric and Antoine, we need help with feedback.
... We need to raise some issues here
... Maybe we can start sharing and discussing a little

Sensitive data

Caroline: We made some changes. Makx and Eric started discussing it so we changed it also bearing in mind f2f resolution
... We took out the BP about privacy and put in some info about that in the description
... and we kept the other BP, but still need an example
... so it would be nice to have some input.

ericstephan: I'd forgotten that we'd talked about that in the f2f. I'll review that.
... I think what we talked about at the f2f is a much better way to go

<yaso_> This is the link http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Nov/0055.html for the emails

Caroline: I'll try and put in the example we have been talking about

<Caroline> phila: I asked Christophe to put some examples on data preservation

<Caroline> ... I adapted the first one he's done to the BP examples

<Caroline> ... I also looked at the examples 13 and 14

<Caroline> ... one of them uses examples of CSV

<Caroline> ... iVan Hermman is looking that

-> http://philarcher1.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#MachineReadableStandardizedFormat PhilA's changes

<Caroline> ... I haven't sent you a pull request yet because I am still working on it

<newton_> http://newtoncalegari.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg

newton_: We've made some changes this week and have some issues to dicuss.
... I'll start with the Content negotiation BP
... I started writing some text on my GH but haven't merged it yet

<newton_> Best Practice 21: Serving data and resources with different formats

-> http://newtoncalegari.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#UniqueIdentifiers

<Caroline> newton_: : Can I use apache?

<Caroline> phila: you already got that text that talks about content negotiation and needs to be linked

<Caroline> ...if you want to change the location of the texts you may do it

<Caroline> newton_: is the group happy with a BP on content negotiation?

<newton_> http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/#R-FormatMultiple

PROPOSED: That we include a spdecific BP on content negotiation

<Caroline> ... can we use the requirement http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/#R-FormatMultiple or should we have a new requirement?

<yaso_> Newton, I don't think we need a new requirement...

<yaso_> +1

PROPOSED: That we include a specific BP on content negotiation

<newton_> +1

<Caroline> laufer: when we talk about RDF or XML they are not the same data

<Caroline> phila: it might me the same data

<Caroline> laufer: I need the HTML if I want the data itself and RDF if??

<Caroline> phila: there are different ways to looking at it

<Caroline> laufer: when I receive a HTML with a RDF inside it I am receiving the data

<Caroline> ... when I ask for the RDF I might not receive the same data

<Caroline> ... we are talking about diferent formats

<MTCarrasco> The format is one of the dimensions of a resource

<Caroline> ... I can have a CSV, an XML

<Caroline> phila: you might have the same data

<Caroline> ... still a diferent representation

<Caroline> ... consumption for machine and consumption for a person

<Caroline> ... the resource still the same, even it is not identical

<Caroline> laufer: you can have HTML without RDF added to it

<MTCarrasco> http://example.com/foo is the resource and it can be in HTML, CSV, etc - and it Spanish, English, etc - and in version1, versionN

<Caroline> phila: web architeture sayas that is the same resource received in diferent ways

<newton_> Laufer, it's not the same data "translated" to a different language.

<newton_> It's a different representation of the same resource. In each language, it could have an specific way to represent it

<Caroline> can't hear MTCarrasco

<Caroline> now I can! :)

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: I think the formats are just variants from the same resources

<Caroline> phila: I agree

<Bart_van_Leeuwen> +1

<antoine> +1

<Caroline> annette_g: Is it possible to actually request parts of pages in diferent formats?

<laufer> rdf data have extra information of the data that is in different formats

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: I don't think so

<Caroline> ... you can point to centain variant

<laufer> rdf contains metadata - is not the same thing

<Caroline> annette_g: I don't understand this BP

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: it is about granularity

<Caroline> ... it is a way of ??

<Caroline> phila: I have to come up a proposal to have a point of how do you ask for a portion of a dataset

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: the variant could be the format or?

<ericstephan> Force11 RRID: Resource Identification Initiative

<MTCarrasco> http://dragoman.org/comuri.html#variant

ericstephan: Pointed to the webinar from Force 11

phila: Yes, that looks interesting

<Caroline> laufer: It is not a diferent format of a same data. I think we can receive diferent data when we ask for that

<MTCarrasco> Problems hearing Laufer

<Caroline> phila: it would be bad practice if the data is not the same

<Caroline> laufer: we receive metadata, which is more data

<Caroline> ... we would receive diferent data then

<Caroline> phila: If I have a web page, a CSV file they will look diferent, but all of them list the same data

<newton_> If you write a short bio about Laufer, it's a representation of the resource Laufer. If you take a picture of Laufer, it's a different represesentation of the same resource Laufer. Different data, yes. But they represent the same resource.

<Caroline> ... they can have diferent formats, but it is the same data

<MTCarrasco> URI metadata - http://dragoman.org/comuri.html#uri-metadata

<laufer> if I receive the information that this is a short bio of laufer, it is another type of data, newton

<Caroline> newton_: I was thinking on crowller

<Caroline> ... it would allow for example only content on JSON LD

<Caroline> ... if you have a resource, even in HTML plus RDFa and my croller would get only JSON LD representation

<Caroline> ... it was not only about the language, but the croller about content negotiation

<Caroline> phila: in this case content negotiation works

<Caroline> Bart_van_Leeuwen: I have been listening to this

<Bart_van_Leeuwen> Recent incident: http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/incident/2015/396583/deployment/201511201546530

<Caroline> ... one of the things we have been doing

<Caroline> ... this recent incident http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/incident/2015/396583/deployment/201511201546530

<Caroline> ... I think we should have a BP showing that this is something that can be done

http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/incident/2015/396583/deployment/201511201546530.xml

<Caroline> ... I think it would make people's life much easier

http://data.brandweeraa.nl/data/incident/2015/396583/deployment/201511201546530.json

<PWinstanley_> +1 to Bart

<yaso> +1 to Bart also

<Caroline> phila: the URI Bart_van_Leeuwen sent shows very well what would be the BP Content Negotiation

<Caroline> ... that is the best way of doing it

<Caroline> ... I just don't want to define content negtiation in our doc

<Caroline> annette_g: I think the issue here is a little confunsing

<Caroline> ... It just need to be written more clearly

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: all of these questions on how

<Caroline> ... they do not define

<Caroline> ... we can clarify certain usages

<newton_> What I start writing it's a draft only on my github, I would like to have your help on improving it

<Bart_van_Leeuwen> +1 for not going into conneg details

<Caroline> phila: I think it is useful to show and put some examples to make it clear

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: how to get the metadata of all resource with content negotiation

<Caroline> ... I propose to use it with the URI

<MTCarrasco> http://example.com/foo?

<Caroline> phila: they make perfect sense, but the world has to agree that is a good way to do it

http://example.com/foo?meta

<newton_> annette_g or Bart_van_Leeuwen, or someone else who woul like to help, would you mind working with me to improve the BP?

<Caroline> ... other ways that people do it is similar but the put ?? in the end

<Caroline> ... as far as I know there is no predominant way of doing it

<Caroline> MTCarrasco: phila is right

<newton_> Bart_van_Leeuwen: Sure :-)

<annette_g> * lol

<laufer> this is better than q +

<Caroline> newton_: we are thinking on using a real URL for the examples and a real dataset on that

<Caroline> ... could we use the W3C?

<Caroline> phila: yes

<Caroline> ... if you are creating test data you are encourage to do it

Caroline: Just asking everyone to help with examples - we really need them.
... we can help with editing etc.

<Bart_van_Leeuwen> thx phila

<MTCarrasco> bye

<Bart_van_Leeuwen> bye

<laufer> bye all - nice wknd

<annette_g> thanks all!

<PWinstanley> bye!

<laufer> the keyword will be the same?

<Makx> bye

<annette_g> * I will NOT be shopping

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/xGbzp445//
Succeeded: s/conneg/Content negotiation/
Found Scribe: Caroline
Inferring ScribeNick: Caroline
Found Scribe: phila
Inferring ScribeNick: phila
Scribes: Caroline, phila
ScribeNicks: Caroline, phila
Present: PWinstanley phila_ MTCarrasco newton Eric_Kauz BartvanLeeuwen Caroline ericstephan antoine yaso laufer annette_g yasooooooooooooooo Bart_van_Leeuwen

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 20 Nov 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/11/20-dwbp-minutes.html
People with action items: