<dezell> Agenda: N/A

<dezell> scibenick: dezell

Goals of PSP

<dezell> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities#Payment_Service_Providers

<dezell> kepeng: Biometrics and barcodes are two important topics for our PSP

<dezell> nick: Worldpay priorities are to level-set the user experience.

<dezell> ...: point of interaction should be consistent. This may be our

<scribe> scribe: Ian

nick: We want payer/payee experience to be good for all merchants, all browsers

<dezell> ...: most important topic.

Nick: Another interesting topic is how to make these things work with existing protocols, in particular how this might or might not work with 3D Secure (and 3D Secure 2.0>
... so the question is whether they should be integrated or treated separately.

Kepeng: What is 3D Secure?

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

Nick: Now under auspices of EMVCo (originally from Visa)

"3-D Secure is an XML-based protocol designed to be an additional security layer for online credit and debit card transactions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

amy: Yes, important to see how to leverage what is going on in other fora
... payments on the web are part of payments
... so we want to understand the web-specific part but also integrate smoothly with things going on in other fora

Kepeng: We have four items

- biometrics

-barcodes

- user experience

- integration with other important payment protocols (such as 3D Secure, but not just that)

Nick: Dream is a common experience whatever the payment type (card, bitcoin, etc.).
... a common framework uniting payment experience.
... so payers can use what they want, and payees can accept what they want
... even if details of a different payment methods will change

[Kepeng goes around the table asking for priorities]

Amy: We're talking in ETA meetings about W3C's involvement.
... I can go back to a group of people on a host of matters and ask what people think.

Electronic Transactions Association (ETA) -> http://www.electran.org/

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that I don't see 'messages', and the danger of trying to integrate w/ 3D Secure. and to say we can embed payment request in barcode form (really QRCode

Manu: when it comes to ensuring that the user experience is harmonized across payment instruments,

or using bar codes, etc.

scribe: the main objects of standardization will be the messages that are exchanged
... this may be a high priority for PSPs
... we should have a discussion about this.

<nicktr> +1 that messaging is key - I'd sort of assumed that was a given

Manu: On integration - I think 3D Secure is something that is aligned with the sort of thing that this group might want to do.
... but its implementation may not be optimal
... bar codes not heavily used in US market but heavily used in China and parts of India
... I think there's good tension here...
... also GS1 is already doing much here
... perhaps what we do with barcode is how to initiate a payment request with data encoded in a bar code

kepeng: We can prepare more materials on our end for discussion at TPAC

<Zakim> AdrianHB, you wanted to provide some feedback from local stakeholders he has spoken with and ask a question about barcodes and 3D secure

AdrianHB: I have been polling stakeholders in South Africa.
... they are interested in the work, and for different reasons it seems to be exciting but also in some cases somewhat threatening.
... that is because some gateways seek to distinguish themselves by providing a good user experience...and if we integrate that into the browser it takes away the distinguishing experience.
... second, merchants use PSPs for user experience, but merchants want control over the whole process: the user interface and the flow.
... we need to keep that in mind
... regarding QR codes, they are used quite a lot in South Africa. But for different reasons.
... QR codes are for encoding data to exchange over an air gap (e.g., mobile camera)
... one use cases is "merchant identifier" info
... used, for example, for primitive card acceptance
... another use case where the buyer generates a QR code for the transaction on a phone and merchant scans it and gets paid.
... another use case is where QR code represents product information (e.g., you can shop at a train platform by scanning products on a billboard...then pick up products at the store)
... so we need to distinguish use cases.

<manu> manu: +1 to be very clear about QRCode use cases and not put everything in the same bucket.

AdrianHB: on 3D Secure...it is not particularly liked.
... cart abandonment rate went up
... people would like a replacement
... challenge is that it is an out-of-band system ...depends on user being in front of a screen that can render a web page, and this is not always possible.
... there are also jurisdictional issues (if my card is from another jurisdiction may be rejected, for example)

<Zakim> nicktr, you wanted to say perhaps the opportunity is 3DS 2.0 which is being designed

nicktr: I think everyone agrees that 3DS is unpopular...but there is an opportunity to improve things in 3DS 2.0
... it would be valuable to reach out and seek common ground

<AdrianHB> this group should be engaging directly with whoever is developing 3DS 2.0

nicktr: notably because these approaches have the backing of the major schemes

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that perhaps 3DS 2.0 is competitive to what we're doing - we should reach out.

Manu: Good points from Adrian and Nick.
... might compete with work of the WG
... so identifying upcoming protocols that fit into this category is a good idea
... so we should reach out the people doing 3DS 2.0 work, and also people doing tokenization

nicktr: 3DS 2.0 is aimed exclusively at cards and our scope is larger than that.
... I have opportunities to speak with communities doing both 3DS 2.0 and tokenization
... I will make sure that there is awareness in those communities

[Nick, should we organize a call?]

Kepeng: Another question is how to reach our audiences to let them know about the work?
... At TPAC we'll have many companies and we can get feedback from them. Other than that, how can we reach our audience (to ask them questions)?

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask if Alibaba, Electran, WorldPay could compile a list of top 10 psps?

Manu: Having a list of the "top" PSPs by region would be helpful!

Kepeng: We can identify the companies; hard part is finding the right contact.

Manu: Are there existing relationships with some companies?

Nick: Let's start with the list.

<scribe> ACTION: nicktr to create a list of "top" PSPs that we should contact. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Create a list of "top" psps that we should contact. [on Nick Telford-Reed - due 2015-09-18].

<scribe> ACTION: Kepeng to create a list of "top" PSPs in China to reach out to [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Create a list of "top" psps in china to reach out to [on Kepeng Li - due 2015-09-18].

<scribe> ACTION: amyz to create a list of top PSPs to reach out to [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'amyz'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: Amy to create a list of top PSPs to reach out to [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Create a list of top psps to reach out to [on Amy Zirkle - due 2015-09-18].

Kepeng: What questions do we want to ask them?

<Zakim> AdrianHB, you wanted to discuss options to participate

AdrianHB: One issue people face is cost of Membership. (I am talking with Ian offline about this.) Are we expecting small PSPs to participate directly?
... If for some reason they cannot join, what is the plan for their involvement?
... I believe South African market for PSPs is highly competitive.
... they have expressed interest in staying close to the work.
... but rather than ongoing participation, they would like an opportunity to provide feedback from time to time

<AdrianHB> Proposed question: How would you like to engage with the group or stay abreast of the work?

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to say we may want to be more specific and to suggest that we get the "can't participate" people on a list and have them do reviews of the specs!

Ian: I'd rather not focus on the "how" today but rather "what are the needs"?

Manu: I think the questions we ask need to be more specific.
... one broad question is "What are the pain points?"
... are the pain points fraud?
... I"m struggling with the questions because I think the industry has data
... for example: Will Web Payments WG 1.0 charter (that does X, Y, Z) address top three pain points your organization has...or if not why not?"
... what parts of "phase 1" will help you? What are the main problems not yet addressed by this work?
... regarding participation...we should be aware of (and compile a list of) who could participate but faces barriers.

<Kepeng_> q

Next meeting of this group

Ian:

- get questions quickly

- give questions to the list of PSPs but they need time to reply

<Kepeng_> My network is bad

- get replies and synthesize them for TPAC discussion

<manu> Ian: If we take a week to get the list of PSPs, and a list of questions - another week to reach out to them and start to hear back - we're at the beginning of October, then synthesize answers that we're getting. By the 15th, we could have good material.

<nicktr> +1 to meeting next Friday if we can

<manu> Ian: We may want to meet again next week to make sure we're on track - once we get questions out - we can work via email - once we have data, we can meet again

<manu> manu: +1 to that plan.

<scribe> ACTION: Ian to send out meeting invitation for 18 September at 9am ET for next meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Send out meeting invitation for 18 september at 9am et for next meeting [on Ian Jacobs - due 2015-09-18].

timeline for deliverables

<manu> Ian: I think, before TPAC we're not going to get detailed requirements - we may get some high-level sense of things. Adrian has some nice feedback.

<manu> Ian: He said "I'm hearing at a high level that UX is important, but there is a perceived threat as well if we integrate into browser."

<manu> Ian: "Merchants want to control experience" - that's high level feedback, if lots of people are saying that, it's good feedback even though it's not a requirement.

<manu> Ian: We'll get more high-level comments than low-level - Manu is on the right track - maybe we ask for high level feedback, but also some detailed feedback on the work.

(I suggest we continue to work by email to get more questions)

<manu> Ian: Can you lead the discussion at TPAC, Kepeng?

<manu> kepeng: Yes, I can.

actions?

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/abreast with/abreast of/
Found Scribe: Ian
Inferring ScribeNick: Ian
Present: Jiangtao dezell AdrianHB Kepeng nicktr Ian Manu
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Sep/0043.html
Got date from IRC log name: 11 Sep 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/11-wpay-minutes.html
People with action items: amy amyz ian kepeng nicktr