See also: IRC log
<chaals> s/(although I should finish my action item :( )//
<scribe> scribenick: manu
<scribe> scribe: manu
dezell: We have a new streamlined agenda.
<Ryladog_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0009.html]
<dezell> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0049.html
<scribe> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0049.html
dezell: Any changes to the agenda?
No changes
dezell: Any questions about proposal as proposed?
<Ian> +1 to the proposal for managing minutes
dezell: Any objections on adopting it?
manu: +1 to proposal for managing minutes
RESOLUTION: Accept new minutes management proposal located here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Feb/0023.html
dezell: Any updates on this?
chaals: in process - working on it now.
dezell: This is what we discussed in Utrecht?
chaals: yes, there is a need to
clarify some of the points, obviously, but I'll send a cleaner
email out... it's straight-forward stuff.
... And it's only aspirational - this is what we want to
achieve.
<inserted> Chaals first draft of 'what we are aiming for'
dezell: Two any other business topics - face-to-face and telecon times... waiting until then to discuss.
dezell: Lots of pointers any updates, Manu?
<Ian> scribenick: Ian
manu: I feel like we are making
good progress.
... we have good feedback from Laurent; Ian is looking at
template; overall we are making progress
... only concern I have is we need to iterate quickly over
template.
... We are also attempting to put the glossary in one place and
be able to import it into the use cases...that work is
ongoing
... there's a lot of work to be done, but iterations happening
rapidly.
... my proposal is to have the templates nailed down, figure
out what to do with examples, then decide when to get to
FPWD
dezell: Any time frame for finishing the template
manu: by next week.
... Ian and I are speaking today
IJ: I would ask for next week.
manu: Once that happens, it's a
matter of crunching through the use cases to make them
fit
... at the use cases telconf next week
<manu> scribenick: manu
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to restate where the requirements went
dezell: Just to be clear - just
because we've removed requirements for now, and put in
preconditions/postconditions, that doesn't mean that
requirements will be gone forever.
... Requirements are soft unless you have glossary figured
out.
Ian: There are a bunch of actions listed in the agenda items - wonder if we think any of those can be closed?
<Ian> manu: I don't think many can be closed right now
manu: I can respond to the mailing list and recommend closing them.
dezell: If you click on Use Case task force - you can see all in order.
manu: Don't want to spend telecon time closing them - we can do via email.
dezell: Any pending questions from the use cases task force?
manu: Not yet - we need to figure out the use cases template.
<Ian> [IJ: Suggest people reply to action status by email to speed things up[
manu: I propose that we go with what the use cases task force template for FPWD... if people have objections that's fine, we should still publish unless they are very strong objections.
dezell: Is it okay if we can integrate this glossary conversation with use cases, Evert?
evert: That's fine, I've been adding graphics/images to glossary.
<evert> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Context
evert: At this point in time -
these are drawings and economic transaction steps that we've
discussed. Basic plan is to write a narrative around that. What
are elements in a payment? They should be neutral to use cases,
just describe the roles.
... Then we can see if roles/objects make sense.
... So glossary is a set of definitions - context part should
give a generic feel on steps/roles.
<Ian> manu: Re glossary, ok to work in the wiki for now, but we will need to move it to an HTML doc and import the terms into the use cases doc and other places as well (shared glossary)
<Ian> ...and a mechanical question of how we integrate into the tools we are using.
<Ian> ack [IPcaller]
<Zakim> [IPcaller], you wanted to discuss integration with use cases.
evert: not sure how the process should work.
<Ian> manu: All you'll need to do is ensure the html doc is up-to-date, and we'll import.
dezell: Evert, Are you going to
be able to be on the call on Thursday?
... Can we defer this to that meeting?
evert: I will be able to be on that call.
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about combined meeting
chaals: One of the reasons of
having a glossary is to understand what we're writing - we
should be using terms consistently, but where possible, to
identify terms that we should replace w/ actual english that
people should understand.
... In that sense - the glossary is tool for understanding if
we're communicating correctly w/ the outside world.
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say glossary is as much a tool as a publication… the goal is to minimise it in the end.
chaals: It's a useful discipline to try and help people understand what our work is about.
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to comment on the magnified importance of the glossary for this IG
dezell: The glossary in our case
is more important in our case that most other W3C WGs. W3C
membership can't really come back and criticize our
terminology, but as we expose the work to the outside world -
it's really important that we get it right.
... Anything else to say about use cases / glossary?
dezell: Any updates?
padler: I just want to bring up -
Joerg has been out, trying to refine diagrams.
... As I was reviewing the use cases - there was some
indication in use cases - user would select payment
agent.
... You would select a payment agent associated w/ particular
payment type.
... The payment agent might contain multiple payment
instruments.
... So, don't want to go into details - but there is some
misalignment here and we need to discuss.
... We need to clean up expectations around that area.
dezell: There is a harmonization issue?
padler: Don't know if it's harmonization or if there is an issue w/ clarifying stuff - divergence could be a bad thing here.
Laurent: I sent something out to the mailing list to discuss - there may be multiple payment instruments per payment agent, multiple payment agents per device.
<padler> +1
Laurent_: I don't know if it's best to do it in use case task force or payment agent task force.
padler: Yeah, it's in the middle
of payment agent and use cases.
... You could have multiple browsers - each running a payment
agent - there are some concepts - the wallet encapsulates
multiple payment agents.
Laurent_: I think we need to focus on what the payment agent has to be.
<Ian> [IJ Thinks people should start to write down their views so we can read and compare]
<padler> +1
<Ian> +1 to Laurent's comment that people write down what they have in mind
Laurent_: Give a bit of perspective on what people mean when they say "payment agent".
<Zakim> Manu, you wanted to mention that this is a problem.
<Laurent_> +1 to have discussion in use case task force
<Ian> manu: I think people who will be talking about this stuff will be in both groups
<padler> +1 to the description of multiple payment instruments per payment agent and multiple payment agents per device...
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about an action for coordination
dezell: Per Ians comment - there
is a coordination need between both task forces. Let's take
this to email
... We had a coordination meeting on Monday - we need clear
goals. One thing that's clear to us is that the use cases are
the thing that drives the other documents. We need to make sure
these concepts are ensconced properly in the use cases
document.
... Let's try to coordinate as best we can.
... Any other payment agent discussion?
... One more thing about Payment Agent - Pascal - Laurents
compatriot - joined us for a non-task force meeting. Pascal is
going to be involved in that work. Laurent, you might make sure
he signs up to the task force.
Laurent: Life has got in the way - need volunteers.
manu: I can volunteer to provide feedback... can't do more calls.
padler: I think there are a
couple of people as US Fed that may be a good fit for that
group.
... Stay tuned, will try to get folks.
dezell: There are several
possible missions for this task force - identify requirements
related to security. The other role for this Task Force is in
trying to keep finger on pulse of what's going on out
there.
... We are more or less in sync w/ that. We should talk about
that whenever you organize the call.
<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Communications_Strategy_Task_Force
Ian: I've pasted into IRC a wiki
where we've started to do work.
... I don't think we're done w/ the action item - need another
week - haven't made a more formal announcement, wanted a more
solid proposal in place.
... Going to talk about timeline in a second - some notes about
messages.
... People need to go around and talk about this work - we need
a shared view for that to happen.
<Ian> ----
<Ian> Drive payments industry acceptance of the the value of the Open Web Platform for achieving some of their goals for ubiquity, security, and usability, as expressed in the use cases developed by industry representatives.
<Ian> Help the group create deliverables that are understandable and useful to both payments industry specialists and the Web community at W3C.
<Ian> ---
Ian: This is the direction we're going in - still lots of work to do. One thing is that we've identified goals - we should socialize those.
<padler> +10 to Ian for all the effort on this front!!
manu: +10 as well!
Ian: The outcome of this group -
you should be able to go to security group, have constructive
conversations w/ them, or to ISO and have a conversation w/
them. Those are our communications goals. Comments on all of
this are very welcome.
... So, end results will be focused on how to speak at
conferences and to the media. We also want to discuss
timeline.
... What are we doing and when are we doing it?
... We want to socialize this - see if we can achieve it.
... We can't take it seriously until we dive down into the
details. Timeline mixes a number of things - calendar for
deliverables, along w/ communications.
... I'm going to filter it out for you here -
... Idea is first draft of use cases are March 18th
... Use cases task force needs to figure out if that is a
realistic date and what to we need to get there?
... Second use cases published about a month later - maybe
before Payments 2015.
<padler> * padler suggests using both... maybe multilple times...
Ian: In May - we would have W3C's
Advisory Committee meeting in paris - let's get competing
visions on paper - iron out the differences, maybe there.
... In June - solid first draft of payment agent architecture
document. use cases are gelling - architecture is being
circulated.
... By august - everyone is on vacation... :P
... By september, we have a roadmap document together -
articulated requirements based on draft architecture - W3C
please get this work done, or make other groups get the work
done.
manu: I think the timeline is great - very aggressive, but clear.
<Laurent_> definitely ambitious :)
manu: This timeline is great - thank you Ian.
dezell: I'm in awe of having someone that can put together a clear message, thank you Ian.
Ian: Looking forward to work with
Pat on this - some of these things are under way - had some
chats w/ other folks in payments industry wrt. interviews.
Capital One and Tyfone are saying they need web payments, we
have an interview wrt. that.
... I need to do planning - what does it take to do FPWD
drafts... All Task Force leads - I need to work with you on
planning to make this proposal real.
... I'm trying to get up to speed - this is all just structure
- what's really going on here - it's slow going - reading a lot
- thanks to everyone that's pointing me to thing to read. I'll
stumble a bit on messaging. Because I'm such a newbie - looking
at use cases is important - I still don't get use cases because
I'm not deeply embedded in the industry.
... I have the advantage of being ignorant about details of the
industry, so that'll help us make this output digestable.
<chaals> [apologies, standing conflict…]
<chaals> [chaals leaves]
dezell: Yes, great work Ian - much appreciated - how do we move as quickly as possible.
Ian: We've had some good luck with stories we've published about the work lately.
<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Relevant_Conferences_for_the_IG
Ian: We have a few large
companies that said that they'd like to get involved in the
work as a result, so that's always good to see.
... Those are all the conferences coming up - make a note of it
- if you're speaking, make a note of it there.
... It helps us to know when people are speaking - we can reuse
their slides, hook into their message, etc.
<padler> *may the force be with us... :)
dezell: Any last questions for the communications task force?
<dezell> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpaytelco/results
dezell: From this poll, the best
time for this group is Wednesday at 11:30am ET. It's a bit late
for Europe, of all the entries, it has the fewest "Don't
want"s.
... So, that's the new telecon time - any violent opposition to
this? The new meeting time will take effect next Wednesday.
<dezell> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/73816/wpay201506/results
dezell: Next up - answer this questionnaire...
<Laurent_> is it possible to get invites for the calls?
<Ian> RESOLUTION: Weekly meeting is now 11:30am ET on Wednesdays, starting 3 March
manu: Laurent - you should be getting invites.
<Ian> (Agenda is invite)
<Ian> (If you want ics, please ask the chair :)
dezell: The preliminary date seems like June 16th-18th at Bloomberg offices.
Ian: please complete questionnaire - you have until close of day Sunday to fill out this poll - please do so.
<padler> -padler