<jamesn> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: Léonie Watson

<scribe> scribenick: LJWatson

Taskforce objectives both near term and long term)

JN: Want thoughs on defficiencies of APG as it is, and ideas for where it should go.

LW: Getting over the hurdle of learning ARIA for first time is a challenge.

JG: Review design/interaction patterns for suitability.
... Include things not to do in design patterns, as well as things to do.
... Guidance on when/which design pattern to choose.

JN: UI design guidance/notes.
... Provide alternative methods.

GB: People consider this doc to be mormative, but it isn't.

LW: Too radical to suggest a title that makes it clearer that it's an informative document?
... Update design pattern examples?

<jemma_> I think so.

JN: Anyone disagree design patterns should be our primary focus?

JG: Should make what's there better before adding to it.

<jemma_> as a developer, I use UI patterns more than reading through aria doc

<jemma_> not all of UI patterns

<jemma_> just most used ones first?

JN: Need to think about how to approach this.
... First approach is to file/track bugs.

<jemma_> yes, I agree with you what you just said

JN: Myself and Matt [King] will edit the doc, but it'll be on Github for people to contribute to.

LW: Bugzilla component?

JN: Discussion about whether to use Bugzilla or Tracker.

<jemma_> I don't know tracker but I have used bugzilla...

JN: Using both ATM.

<jemma_> either way works for me.

JN: Can do a lot of work discussing/responding to bugs offline.
... Is everyone happy with Bugzilla?

<jemma_> I got the error accessing the link, Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges

MK: How should we prioritise things?

JN: Suggest we first log bugs against the stuff we know is broken.
... Just design patterns for now.

MK: Think design patterns are subjective. We should perhaps walk through them as a group?
... We could review 3 patterns per call, give people time to read/review beforehand.
... Could each raise bugs ahead of the meetings, for review on call.

LW: Would also give good indication where multiple design patterns exist.

MK: Possible to file bugs against a specific widget?

JN: It's possible in Bugzilla.

<jemma_> such as "toggle", "tab-list"...?

<scribe> ACTION: James Nurthen to ask Michael about adding sub-components for individual design patterns/widgets to Bugzilla. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/17-aria-apg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.

MK: Can we make a start?

JN: Yes, we can retro-actively assign bugs to sub-components.

<jemma_> accordion sounds good.

<jemma_> it is used a lot by developers

MK: Should start with the building block widgets, then move onto the more complex widgets.

JG: Can use the taxonomy?

JN: Could go for simple widgets alphabetically?

MK: Agree

JN: I can put the list/running order together done today.

MK: Lack of reliable examples is a problem, and a huge project.
... We should have a definitive W3C hosted set of examples.

LW: Github repo?

MK: Thoughts on associating the APG with specific ARIA versions?

JN: This is a non recc track doc.
... Should we start with a 1.1 APG anyway?

LW: Makes sense.

MK: We should change title then.

<mattking> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/

MK: ARIA 1.1 should go to recc early 2016?
... Seems we should be able to publish a cleaned up version of APG 1.0 mid 2015?

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/blob/master/practices/aria-practices.html

JN: Master APG on Github is APG 1.1.
... Think the expectation from PF is that we'll work on APG 1.1.

MK: We can publish a working draft of APG 1.1 before ARIA 1.1 goes to recc.
... Would it confuse browser/AT vendors if we went to APG 1.1?

LW: Think it would encourage them to fix existing errors/incomplete support.

MK: Consensus is to call it APG 1.1?

+1

JN: If the widget is usable, think it's ok to include it. Unless to advise so would do harm.

LW: We're getting close to interoperability requirements for what should be included.

MK: Everything should be supported by at least two/three browsers.

BG: Not many widgets in 1.0 that aren't supported.

<jongund> I have to leave a little early today

MK: Agree ATs need guidance for supporting roles approprriately.
... If we think this doc is a prerequisite, we've created ourselves a new problem. Don't think this doc is that.

<jongund> Sorry I need to leave

MK: We need to be able to point AT vendors at 1.1 features so they can start to think about support.

JN: We could use highlighted notes to indicate new/unsupported features?
... We don't have the bandwidth to work on multiple versions of the APG.

MK: Some way to include notes could work.
... Some way to clearly indicate the status of each pattern?

JN: If we have robust examples, it would be easy to do a "can I use" test against it.
... Could use spec notes to highlight features that lack support.

MK: Ok, let's do that.

JN: Next week let's try to get through button, checkbox radiobutton.
... Could also review existing issues.

MK: No meeting on 31st Oct.

<jemma_> I am ok with bugzilla too.

<jemma> bye

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Léonie Watson
Found ScribeNick: LJWatson
Present: James_Nurthen Léonie_Watson Jemma Bryan_Garaventa Jon_Gunderson Matt_King
Got date from IRC log name: 17 Oct 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/17-aria-apg-minutes.html
People with action items: james nurthen

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.