14:40:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-irc ←
14:40:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:40:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←
14:40:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
14:40:10 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:40:10 <trackbot> Date: 18 February 2009
14:40:42 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Feb/0033
14:40:46 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:40:59 <Steven> Regrets: Roland
14:41:58 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
14:42:02 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
14:43:23 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:43:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:44:45 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
14:44:52 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:45:20 <oedipus> previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html
14:45:23 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
14:45:30 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
14:45:30 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:45:32 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:47:07 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
14:47:23 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P4 is mgylling
Markus Gylling: Zakim, ??P4 is mgylling ←
14:47:23 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
14:47:40 <oedipus> TOPIC: News, Notes & Agenda Additions
14:47:59 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
14:48:07 <alessio> zakim, ??P6
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P6 ←
14:48:07 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P6', alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P6', alessio ←
14:48:12 <alessio> zakim, ??P6 is Alessio
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P6 is Alessio ←
14:48:12 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←
14:48:28 <oedipus> SP: sorry sent out agenda late;
Steven Pemberton: sorry sent out agenda late; ←
14:48:59 <oedipus> GJR: action item update - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/49
Gregory Rosmaita: action item update - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/49 ←
14:49:45 <oedipus> GJR: we voting on sending ARIA 1.0 to last call today
Gregory Rosmaita: we voting on sending ARIA 1.0 to last call today ←
14:50:01 <oedipus> GJR: MCooper will provide Shane with updated info
Gregory Rosmaita: MCooper will provide Shane with updated info ←
14:50:15 <oedipus> SP: update at last call? should it not express only what is in rec?
Steven Pemberton: update at last call? should it not express only what is in rec? ←
14:50:19 <oedipus> SM: doesn't
Shane McCarron: doesn't ←
14:50:33 <oedipus> SM: reflects what is in ARIA WD, needs to be updated to conform
Shane McCarron: reflects what is in ARIA WD, needs to be updated to conform ←
14:50:51 <oedipus> SP: ok, fair enough
Steven Pemberton: ok, fair enough ←
14:51:47 <oedipus> SP: action item - send PER transition request -- done; will keep my eye on it; should hear within a week
Steven Pemberton: action item - send PER transition request -- done; will keep my eye on it; should hear within a week ←
14:51:57 <oedipus> SP: action to write intro to XHTML2
Steven Pemberton: action to write intro to XHTML2 ←
14:52:02 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml2.html
Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/xhtml2.html ←
14:52:05 <oedipus> SP: created very draf first version
Steven Pemberton: created very draf first version ←
14:52:50 <oedipus> SP: a) very early draft; b) in "telegram" style - listed what needs to be explained and intent of each section; sections need populating; comments on structure welcome
Steven Pemberton: a) very early draft; b) in "telegram" style - listed what needs to be explained and intent of each section; sections need populating; comments on structure welcome ←
14:53:41 <oedipus> SP: composed of lots of pieces; have to check RDFa example for right triples; bit about XFrames that probably needs to be cut, but is placeholder until we decide what to do about XFrames; sketched out XForms section
Steven Pemberton: composed of lots of pieces; have to check RDFa example for right triples; bit about XFrames that probably needs to be cut, but is placeholder until we decide what to do about XFrames; sketched out XForms section ←
14:53:53 <oedipus> SP: any comments welcome
Steven Pemberton: any comments welcome ←
14:54:44 <oedipus> GJR: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/50 is still open (didn't finish - hope to do so today)
Gregory Rosmaita: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/50 is still open (didn't finish - hope to do so today) ←
14:55:18 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/ProposedElements/ModificationMarkup#Investigating_INS_and_DEL_.28and_perhaps_MOD.29
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/ProposedElements/ModificationMarkup#Investigating_INS_and_DEL_.28and_perhaps_MOD.29 ←
14:55:26 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/ProposedElements/ModificationMarkup
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/ProposedElements/ModificationMarkup ←
14:58:39 <oedipus> SP: word level for INS and DEL - normal to do DEL on false plural - dogs = dog<DEL>s</DEL>
Steven Pemberton: word level for INS and DEL - normal to do DEL on false plural - dogs = dog<DEL>s</DEL> ←
14:59:44 <oedipus> GJR: best practice, should point out at least the dangers of using internal INS and DEL for rendering especially alternate rendering
Gregory Rosmaita: best practice, should point out at least the dangers of using internal INS and DEL for rendering especially alternate rendering ←
15:00:13 <oedipus> GJR: no, i still need to finish compiling the document
Gregory Rosmaita: no, i still need to finish compiling the document ←
15:00:36 <oedipus> GJR: will email list when ready to review
Gregory Rosmaita: will email list when ready to review ←
15:03:18 <oedipus> SP: voting on going to last call
Steven Pemberton: voting on going to last call ←
15:03:22 <oedipus> GJR: correct
Gregory Rosmaita: correct ←
15:03:59 <oedipus> GJR: plan is to get through as soon as possible -- 3 weeks from date of announcement, probably a week from friday
Gregory Rosmaita: plan is to get through as soon as possible -- 3 weeks from date of announcement, probably a week from friday ←
15:04:19 <oedipus> latest ARIA editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria
latest ARIA editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria ←
15:05:15 <ShaneM> I suspect a 3 week last call is a little naive - the rest of the membership needs to read the doc.
Shane McCarron: I suspect a 3 week last call is a little naive - the rest of the membership needs to read the doc. ←
15:05:24 <oedipus> agreed
agreed ←
15:06:08 <ShaneM> Off topic: quote of the day (from Mark Birbeck):
Shane McCarron: Off topic: quote of the day (from Mark Birbeck): ←
15:06:08 <ShaneM> There are two aspects to this debate. Some people want RDFa to be added to HTML5, and that browsers do something with it. I'd love to see that too, but then I'd also like to solve world hunger, and teach the world to sing.
Shane McCarron: There are two aspects to this debate. Some people want RDFa to be added to HTML5, and that browsers do something with it. I'd love to see that too, but then I'd also like to solve world hunger, and teach the world to sing. ←
15:06:45 <oedipus> TOPIC: RDFa in HTML5
15:07:05 <oedipus> SP: amazed at how 1 thread generated so much discussion
Steven Pemberton: amazed at how 1 thread generated so much discussion ←
15:07:55 <oedipus> SP: Manu reported back from conference support and interest in RDFa; discussion devolved into HTML5 versus RDFa argument
Steven Pemberton: Manu reported back from conference support and interest in RDFa; discussion devolved into HTML5 versus RDFa argument ←
15:08:13 <oedipus> SP: quote of the day right on topic!
Steven Pemberton: quote of the day right on topic! ←
15:09:37 <oedipus> SP: discussion is one i had last year at TPAC when i attended HTML WG to discuss RDFa and HTML5; Henri Sivonen still singing the same song against RDFa -- counter arguments to use of RDFa is ; attributes won't be removed from DOM when document parsed, so RDFa will just work; only problem is validation, and HTML5 doesn't have a validation story
Steven Pemberton: discussion is one i had last year at TPAC when i attended HTML WG to discuss RDFa and HTML5; Henri Sivonen still singing the same song against RDFa -- counter arguments to use of RDFa is extensibility, namespacing, and control attributes won't be removed from DOM when document parsed, so RDFa will just work; only problem is validation, and HTML5 doesn't have a validation story ←
15:09:41 <oedipus> validator.nu
validator.nu ←
15:09:59 <oedipus> SM: generic validation - http://validator.nu
Shane McCarron: generic validation - http://validator.nu ←
15:10:21 <oedipus> SM: thread traffic today - HS' argument interesting; HTML5 does remove attributes from info stack
Shane McCarron: thread traffic today - HS' argument interesting; HTML5 does remove attributes from info stack ←
15:10:24 <oedipus> SP: which ones?
Steven Pemberton: which ones? ←
15:10:32 <oedipus> SM: anyone that is in xmlns
Shane McCarron: anyone that is in xmlns ←
15:11:40 <oedipus> s/use of RDFa is ;/use of RDFa is extensibility, namespacing, and control
15:11:49 <oedipus> SP: how plan to declare version of HTML5
Steven Pemberton: how plan to declare version of HTML5 ←
15:11:53 <oedipus> SM: are no versions
Shane McCarron: are no versions ←
15:12:03 <oedipus> SP: either this is the last HTML ever, or need to solve problem
Steven Pemberton: either this is the last HTML ever, or need to solve problem ←
15:12:30 <oedipus> SP: at some point in future going to have to have another iteration of HTML which will need to be validated; could then have profile to validate HTML5 + RDFa
Steven Pemberton: at some point in future going to have to have another iteration of HTML which will need to be validated; could then have profile to validate HTML5 + RDFa ←
15:13:17 <oedipus> SM: yesterday's quote of the day from TAG discussion on versioning; HTML5 Issue 41 - precludes extensibility in HTML5
Shane McCarron: yesterday's quote of the day from TAG discussion on versioning; HTML5 ISSUE-41 - precludes extensibility in HTML5 ←
15:13:23 <ShaneM> David Orchard said: This is also directly related to HTML5 WG issue 41, which is that HTML5 currently precludes support for distributed extensibility.
Shane McCarron: David Orchard said: This is also directly related to HTML5 WG ISSUE-41, which is that HTML5 currently precludes support for distributed extensibility. ←
15:13:24 <oedipus> SM: source david orchard
Shane McCarron: source david orchard ←
15:14:01 <oedipus> GJR: no support for my "role for HTML5" proposal - http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/RoleAttribute
Gregory Rosmaita: no support for my "role for HTML5" proposal - http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/RoleAttribute ←
15:14:19 <oedipus> SM: problem is don't want distributed extensibility - want a locked-down developer-centric language
Shane McCarron: problem is don't want distributed extensibility - want a locked-down developer-centric language ←
15:14:35 <oedipus> SP: done our best to make XHTML markup useable by everyone
Steven Pemberton: done our best to make XHTML markup useable by everyone ←
15:15:21 <oedipus> q+ to say sam ruby has action to discuss HTML5 and XHTML alignment - Janina Sajka, co-chair of PF should be at meeting
q+ to say sam ruby has action to discuss HTML5 and XHTML alignment - Janina Sajka, co-chair of PF should be at meeting ←
15:15:25 <oedipus> q?
q? ←
15:15:39 <oedipus> ack owe
ack owe ←
15:15:42 <oedipus> ack oe
ack oe ←
15:15:42 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say sam ruby has action to discuss HTML5 and XHTML alignment - Janina Sajka, co-chair of PF should be at meeting
Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus, you wanted to say sam ruby has action to discuss HTML5 and XHTML alignment - Janina Sajka, co-chair of PF should be at meeting ←
15:16:59 <oedipus> SP: haven't received request from Sam
Steven Pemberton: haven't received request from Sam ←
15:17:25 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/105
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/105 ←
15:17:48 <oedipus> SP: good approach
Steven Pemberton: good approach ←
15:19:08 <oedipus> GJR: would like Janina Sajka to be included in meeting
Gregory Rosmaita: would like Janina Sajka to be included in meeting ←
15:19:28 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:19:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:20:39 <oedipus> q+ to say HTML5 new PWD pushed without consultation with WG
q+ to say HTML5 new PWD pushed without consultation with WG ←
15:21:30 <oedipus> ack oe
ack oe ←
15:21:30 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say HTML5 new PWD pushed without consultation with WG
Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus, you wanted to say HTML5 new PWD pushed without consultation with WG ←
15:22:56 <Steven> Regrets+MarkB
Steven Pemberton: Regrets+MarkB ←
15:25:01 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:25:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:27:04 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/ ←
15:27:54 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 1.0 PER
15:27:58 <oedipus> SP: objection from DanC about 1.0 PER
Steven Pemberton: objection from DanC about 1.0 PER ←
15:27:59 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml1-20081121/
Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml1-20081121/ ←
15:28:17 <oedipus> SP: stated not enough time for community review
Steven Pemberton: DanC stated not enough time for community review ←
15:28:30 <oedipus> s/stated not/DanC stated not/
15:29:09 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-media-types-20090116
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-media-types-20090116 ←
15:29:38 <oedipus> SM: make sure reviewing right draft of Media Types (16 January 2009)
Shane McCarron: make sure reviewing right draft of Media Types (16 January 2009) ←
15:29:47 <oedipus> SP: reference from normative section to the document
Steven Pemberton: reference from normative section to the document ←
15:30:26 <oedipus> "Many people want to use XHTML to author their web pages, but are confused about the best ways to deliver those pages in such a way that they will be processed correctly by various user agents. This Note contains suggestions about how to format XHTML to ensure it is maximally portable, and how to deliver XHTML to various user agents - even those that do not yet support XHTML natively. This document is intended to be used by document authors who want to use XHTM
"Many people want to use XHTML to author their web pages, but are confused about the best ways to deliver those pages in such a way that they will be processed correctly by various user agents. This Note contains suggestions about how to format XHTML to ensure it is maximally portable, and how to deliver XHTML to various user agents - even those that do not yet support XHTML natively. This document is intended to be used by document authors who want to use XHTM ←
15:31:02 <oedipus> SP: complaint is in reference to Section 5
Steven Pemberton: complaint is in reference to Section 5 ←
15:31:20 <oedipus> SM: think previous REC had same pointer -- pointed to appendix C, now points to Media Types
Shane McCarron: think previous REC had same pointer -- pointed to appendix C, now points to Media Types ←
15:31:44 <oedipus> SP: was concern about a normative section pointed to from an informative section
Steven Pemberton: was concern about a normative section pointed to from an informative section ←
15:31:51 <oedipus> SP: what is normative about Section 5?
Steven Pemberton: what is normative about Section 5? ←
15:31:53 <oedipus> SM: nothing
Shane McCarron: nothing ←
15:32:02 <oedipus> SP: can we mark that "This section is informative"?
Steven Pemberton: can we mark that "This section is informative"? ←
15:32:52 <oedipus> SP: section 5 should be non-normative, and provide pointer to January 2009 draft
Steven Pemberton: section 5 should be non-normative, and provide pointer to January 2009 draft ←
15:33:15 <oedipus> SP: definitely have had opportunity to review
Steven Pemberton: definitely have had opportunity to review ←
15:34:50 <Steven> I presented it to the HCG
Steven Pemberton: I presented it to the HCG ←
15:34:56 <oedipus> RESOLVED: reply to DanC's comments on PER of XHTML 1.0 to state that Section 5 (of XHTML 1.0 PEF) is non-normative and provide pointer to 16 January 2006 draft of XHTML Media Types - Second Edition
RESOLVED: reply to DanC's comments on PER of XHTML 1.0 to state that Section 5 (of XHTML 1.0 PER) is non-normative and provide pointer to 16 January 2006 draft of XHTML Media Types - Second Edition ←
15:35:21 <oedipus> s/PEF/PER/
15:35:47 <oedipus> TOPIC: Burning Issues
15:35:59 <oedipus> SP: discussion of XHTML2 and HTML5 combined?
Steven Pemberton: discussion of XHTML2 and HTML5 combined? ←
15:37:20 <oedipus> SP: at Forms f2f, realized don't have dates for virtual face2face for XHTML2 WG -- do we want to plan a longer session (day, day and a half) to work on XHTML2 draft
Steven Pemberton: at Forms f2f, realized don't have dates for virtual face2face for XHTML2 WG -- do we want to plan a longer session (day, day and a half) to work on XHTML2 draft ←
15:37:41 <oedipus> SP: need Roland to set but should start thinking about timing
Steven Pemberton: need Roland to set but should start thinking about timing ←
15:37:50 <oedipus> AC: agree
Alessio Cartocci: agree ←
15:38:10 <oedipus> ADJOURN
ADJOURN ←
15:38:24 <Zakim> -McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←
15:38:27 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
15:38:29 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:38:29 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
15:38:38 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
15:38:38 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, McCarron, Steven, mgylling, Alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, McCarron, Steven, mgylling, Alessio ←
15:38:43 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:38:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/18-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:41:40 <alessio> .
15:43:49 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
15:43:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
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