Meeting Record

XHTML2 WG FtF, Day 2

Minutes of 24 October 2008

Agenda

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-FtF-Agenda#Friday:_2008-10-24

Seen

Alessio Cartocci, Gregory Rosmaita, Masataka Yakura, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Unknown Executive_3, Unknown nick, Unknown oedipus_laptop

Chair

Roland Merrick

Scribe

Gregory Rosmaita, Unknown oedipus_laptop

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler link
specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence link
keep everything from HTML 4.01 definition of script link
take Basic 1.1, Print 1.1, XHTML 1.1 to PER as soon as errata check finished link
take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler link
specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence link
keep everything from XHTML 1.1 definition of script link

Topics

XML Events 2
Handlers Module
Script Module
Fallout of M12N 1.1
Fallout of M12n
XHTML Mime
XHTML2 Roadmap
Next Face2Face

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07:05:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc ←

07:05:35 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started ←

07:05:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

07:05:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←

07:05:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM already started ←

07:05:39 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference

created using i/Date: 24 October 2008/scribenick: oeddie

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

07:05:39 <trackbot> Date: 24 October 2008

07:05:42 <Zakim> +oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: +oedipus ←

07:05:58 <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 WG FtF, Day 2

07:06:06 <Steven> Chair: Roland

07:06:17 <Steven> zakim, dial executive_3

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial executive_3 ←

07:06:17 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

07:06:19 <Zakim> +Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: +Executive_3 ←

07:07:10 <Roland_> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-FtF-Agenda#Friday:_2008-10-24

07:09:58 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

07:16:26 <oeddie> TOPIC: XML Events 2

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

1. XML Events 2

07:16:31 <oeddie> RM: did you make changes?

Roland Merrick: did you make changes? ←

07:16:32 <oeddie> SM: did

Shane McCarron: did ←

07:16:39 <oeddie> RM: in draft dated 20th

Roland Merrick: in draft dated 20th ←

07:16:41 <oeddie> SM: yes

Shane McCarron: yes ←

07:16:54 <oeddie> RM: wen through list and made some changes

Roland Merrick: went through list and made some changes ←

07:17:03 <Steven> s/wen/went/

07:17:04 <oeddie> RM: eventtarget name of changed attribute

Roland Merrick: eventtarget name of changed attribute ←

07:17:15 <oeddie> RM: main piece

Roland Merrick: main piece ←

07:18:43 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-forms-minutes#item05

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-forms-minutes#item05 ←

07:18:54 <Steven> Forms discussion on XML Events 2

Steven Pemberton: Forms discussion on XML Events 2 ←

created using i/SM: added @eventtarget/ScribeNick: oedipus_laptop

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus_laptop' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown oedipus_laptop)

07:18:58 <oedipus_laptop> SM: added @eventtarget

Shane McCarron: added @eventtarget ←

07:19:08 <oedipus_laptop> RM: for listeners

Roland Merrick: for listeners ←

07:19:11 <oedipus_laptop> SM: in general

Shane McCarron: in general ←

07:19:36 <oedipus_laptop> SM: thought 2 attribute names i changed

Shane McCarron: thought 2 attribute names i changed ←

07:19:40 <oedipus_laptop> RM: other in handler section

Roland Merrick: other in handler section ←

07:19:43 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/ ←

07:19:43 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/ ←

07:19:48 <Steven> XML Events 2 Draft

Steven Pemberton: XML Events 2 Draft ←

created using i/SM: issue remaining/ScribeNick: oedipus

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

07:20:34 <oedipus> SM: issue remaining: when are events registered?

Shane McCarron: issue remaining: when are events registered? ←

07:20:40 <oedipus> RM: had an action on that

Roland Merrick: had an action on that ←

07:20:56 <oedipus> RM: when document loaded would be registered and loaded into DOM at that point in time

Roland Merrick: when document loaded would be registered and loaded into DOM at that point in time ←

07:21:03 <oedipus> SP: happen before load events?

Steven Pemberton: happen before load events? ←

07:21:10 <oedipus> RM: could be tricky

Roland Merrick: could be tricky ←

07:21:33 <oedipus> SM: reason have to be registered before onLoadEvent fires

Shane McCarron: reason have to be registered before onLoadEvent fires ←

07:22:07 <oedipus> SP: onLoadEvent may know stuff necessary for document which seems to mean that would have to refire onLoad

Steven Pemberton: onLoadEvent may know stuff necessary for document which seems to mean that would have to refire onLoad ←

07:22:19 <oedipus> RM: or protect those looking to load and trigger that way

Roland Merrick: or protect those looking to load and trigger that way ←

07:22:36 <oedipus> SP: script run when found

Steven Pemberton: script run when found ←

07:22:41 <oedipus> RM: so could be before

Roland Merrick: so could be before ←

07:22:43 <ShaneM> typically you do something like addEvent("load", functionRef) ;

Shane McCarron: typically you do something like addEvent("load", functionRef) ; ←

07:23:05 <oedipus> SP: script would get run before onLoad

Steven Pemberton: script would get run before onLoad ←

07:23:31 <oedipus> SP: would't the code implementing XML Events 2 need to wait for onLoad itself in order to initialize

Steven Pemberton: would't the code implementing XML Events 2 need to wait for onLoad itself in order to initialize ←

07:23:36 <oedipus> SM: no, not if run inline

Shane McCarron: no, not if run inline ←

07:23:49 <oedipus> SP: has to run up and down tree to register all listener events

Steven Pemberton: has to run up and down tree to register all listener events ←

07:24:01 <oedipus> SP: onLoad, but things depend upon it

Steven Pemberton: onLoad, but things depend upon it ←

07:24:12 <oedipus> SP: maybe that is its own bootstrap problem

Steven Pemberton: maybe that is its own bootstrap problem ←

07:24:29 <oedipus> RM: if go in through javascript and listen with javascript wouldn't be any different

Roland Merrick: if go in through javascript and listen with javascript wouldn't be any different ←

07:24:58 <oedipus> RM: listener in script for onLoadEvent would have problem after

Roland Merrick: listener in script for onLoadEvent would have problem after ←

07:25:24 <oedipus> RM: no different from anyone running script using ListenerOnLoad from script interface

Roland Merrick: no different from anyone running script using ListenerOnLoad from script interface ←

07:26:12 <oedipus> SM: 2 diff problems: 1) what to say about handlers module and when registered; 2) if implement to work in existing UAs, how would ensure outcome of issue 1 supported

Shane McCarron: 2 diff problems: 1) what to say about handlers module and when registered; 2) if implement to work in existing UAs, how would ensure outcome of ISSUE-1 supported ←

07:26:23 <oedipus> SM: not sure let decisions about current UAs color the answer

Shane McCarron: not sure let decisions about current UAs color the answer ←

07:26:34 <oedipus> SM: should say registered prior to onLoadFire

Shane McCarron: should say registered prior to onLoadFire ←

07:26:38 <oedipus> SP: yeah

Steven Pemberton: yeah ←

07:26:46 <oedipus> RM: yeah but how to achieve?

Roland Merrick: yeah but how to achieve? ←

07:27:04 <oedipus> Nick: can do onLoad then trigger all events waiting for onLoad -- order not defined

Scribe problem: the name 'Nick' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Nick: can do onLoad then trigger all events waiting for onLoad -- order not defined ←

07:27:14 <oedipus> SP: could use root elements

Steven Pemberton: could use root elements ←

07:28:02 <oedipus> SP: script implemented can do capture onLoad, initialize, then reinitialize onLoad

Steven Pemberton: script implemented can do capture onLoad, initialize, then reinitialize onLoad ←

07:28:14 <oedipus> SM: implementation must behave as if...

Shane McCarron: implementation must behave as if... ←

07:28:16 <oedipus> RM: yes

Roland Merrick: yes ←

07:28:18 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

07:28:31 <oedipus> RM: such that handlers may listen for onLoad event

Roland Merrick: such that handlers may listen for onLoad event ←

07:28:39 <oedipus> SM: can't decide where need to say

Shane McCarron: can't decide where need to say ←

07:28:50 <oedipus> SM: in addEventListener description?

Shane McCarron: in addEventListener description? ←

07:28:54 <oedipus> SM: yes

Shane McCarron: yes ←

07:28:57 <oedipus> RM: makes sense

Roland Merrick: makes sense ←

07:29:15 <oedipus> SM: reason for confusion is MarkB says that this also wasn't clear from XML Events 1 spec -

Shane McCarron: reason for confusion is MarkB says that this also wasn't clear from XML Events 1 spec - ←

07:29:24 <oedipus> SP: not place to do it -- that's an action

Steven Pemberton: not place to do it -- that's an action ←

07:29:39 <oedipus> SP: place to talk about it is in the description of handler attribute

Steven Pemberton: place to talk about it is in the description of handler attribute ←

07:30:34 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:30:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

07:31:05 <oedipus> SP: i think should be under handler attribute

Steven Pemberton: i think should be under handler attribute ←

07:31:14 <oedipus> RM: defined on listener element - optional attribute?

Roland Merrick: defined on listener element - optional attribute? ←

07:31:17 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

07:31:26 <oedipus> SP: (reads from spec)

Steven Pemberton: (reads from spec) ←

07:31:53 <oedipus> SP: could do in separate location: whenever handler attached explicitly with handler attribute or implicitly

Steven Pemberton: could do in separate location: whenever handler attached explicitly with handler attribute or implicitly ←

07:32:13 <oedipus> RM: problem saying that - what happens when try to add handler after - brining script into DOM

Roland Merrick: problem saying that - what happens when try to add handler after - brining script into DOM ←

07:32:29 <oedipus> RM: 2 sides: 1) those that are declared in original document will be done before load

Roland Merrick: 2 sides: 1) those that are declared in original document will be done before load ←

07:32:43 <oedipus> SP: discussed before and said that can't do that

Steven Pemberton: discussed before and said that can't do that ←

07:32:50 <oedipus> RM: should ignore that situation

Roland Merrick: should ignore that situation ←

07:33:12 <oedipus> SP: little point in changing handler attribute via script - if want that effect, can use script already

Steven Pemberton: little point in changing handler attribute via script - if want that effect, can use script already ←

07:33:32 <oedipus> RM: if put widget in DIV, need assertion -- can't bring in declarative approach to do that

Roland Merrick: if put widget in DIV, need assertion -- can't bring in declarative approach to do that ←

07:33:51 <oedipus> SM: any DOM mutation event should cause the implementation to reexamine tree to ensure all handlers are registered

Shane McCarron: any DOM mutation event should cause the implementation to reexamine tree to ensure all handlers are registered ←

07:33:59 <oedipus> SP: are you REALLY sure we want that

Steven Pemberton: are you REALLY sure we want that ←

07:34:20 <oedipus> SM: alternative is build page using AJAX -- if want to work, has to work there too

Shane McCarron: alternative is build page using AJAX -- if want to work, has to work there too ←

07:34:55 <oedipus> SP: not sure -- whole point of this markup was to do declaratively so didn't have to use script; if going to use script, use script's function, not declarative markup

Steven Pemberton: not sure -- whole point of this markup was to do declaratively so didn't have to use script; if going to use script, use script's function, not declarative markup ←

07:35:07 <oedipus> RM: may not know if embedded at start-up time or post load

Roland Merrick: may not know if embedded at start-up time or post load ←

07:35:13 <oedipus> SM: that's my concern too

Shane McCarron: that's my concern too ←

07:35:43 <oedipus> SM: don't disagree with SP, but don't know how to accomodate those creating dynamic pages -- added after onLoadEvent fires

Shane McCarron: don't disagree with SP, but don't know how to accomodate those creating dynamic pages -- added after onLoadEvent fires ←

07:36:09 <oedipus> RM: could say or provide function to do it - if do insert after mnode, have to do something to reparse and register these items

Roland Merrick: could say or provide function to do it - if do insert after mnode, have to do something to reparse and register these items ←

07:36:21 <oedipus> RM: responsibility, not dogma

Roland Merrick: responsibility, not dogma ←

07:36:28 <oedipus> SM: address in document conformance?

Shane McCarron: address in document conformance? ←

07:36:32 <oedipus> SM: or just advice

Shane McCarron: or just advice ←

07:36:40 <oedipus> SM: more than advice -- have to do it

Shane McCarron: more than advice -- have to do it ←

07:37:26 <oedipus> RM: have to cause script to get executed in some way to get activated

Roland Merrick: have to cause script to get executed in some way to get activated ←

07:37:54 <oedipus> SM: popular AJAX libraries do it by setting flag for javascripting process

Shane McCarron: popular AJAX libraries do it by setting flag for javascripting process ←

07:37:59 <oedipus> RM: need something similar here

Roland Merrick: need something similar here ←

07:38:03 <oedipus> SM: where in doc?

Shane McCarron: where in doc? ←

07:38:14 <oedipus> RM: processing model, isn't it?

Roland Merrick: processing model, isn't it? ←

07:38:41 <oedipus> RM: make topic in subsection 3 - subject of how to cause listeners to be registered

Roland Merrick: make topic in subsection 3 - subject of how to cause listeners to be registered ←

07:38:46 <oedipus> SM: 3.6?

Shane McCarron: 3.6? ←

07:38:54 <oedipus> SM: after event scope

Shane McCarron: after event scope ←

07:38:55 <oedipus> RM: yep

Roland Merrick: yep ←

07:39:43 <oedipus> regrets+ Tina, MarkB, Alessio

regrets+ Tina, MarkB, Alessio ←

07:39:58 <oedipus> SM: don't need to do in real time - will edit and we can revisit

Shane McCarron: don't need to do in real time - will edit and we can revisit ←

07:40:16 <oedipus> TOPIC: Handlers Module

2. Handlers Module

07:40:36 <oedipus> RM: changed to make eventtarget

Roland Merrick: changed to make eventtarget ←

07:40:51 <oedipus> SM: other is EventType

Shane McCarron: other is EventType ←

07:41:43 <oedipus> RM: other thing that makes sense in this section now -- had scripting module, but also discussion if want handler and a script - this script is a "traditional" script inside handler module

Roland Merrick: other thing that makes sense in this section now -- had scripting module, but also discussion if want handler and a script - this script is a "traditional" script inside handler module ←

07:42:06 <oedipus> scribeNick+ oeddie

scribeNick+ oeddie ←

07:42:17 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:42:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

07:42:19 <oedipus> SM: script element that would say "here are my handlers"

Shane McCarron: script element that would say "here are my handlers" ←

07:42:26 <oedipus> RM: script that is only a function

Roland Merrick: script that is only a function ←

07:43:00 <oedipus> RM: add script for all reasons have today

Roland Merrick: add script for all reasons have today ←

07:43:29 <oedipus> SM: reluctant to loose section 5 - no home other than XHTML2 today

Shane McCarron: reluctant to loose section 5 - no home other than XHTML2 today ←

07:43:54 <oedipus> RM: keep in there; will review MarkB's issues with Mark - question: define handler or function - function takes to script handler to handler

Roland Merrick: keep in there; will review MarkB's issues with Mark - question: define handler or function - function takes to script handler to handler ←

07:44:06 <alessio> hi all, I don't have Skype here... can I follow you via IRC?

Alessio Cartocci: hi all, I don't have Skype here... can I follow you via IRC? ←

07:44:07 <oedipus> RM: reviewing minutes and email from july

Roland Merrick: reviewing minutes and email from july ←

07:44:27 <oedipus> of, course, you are welcome in any way you can participate

of, course, you are welcome in any way you can participate ←

07:44:37 <oedipus> present+ Alessio_on_IRC

present+ Alessio_on_IRC ←

07:44:43 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:44:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

07:44:55 <alessio> thx!

Alessio Cartocci: thx! ←

07:44:57 <Steven> i/Date: 24 October 2008/scribenick: oeddie

07:45:02 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:45:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

07:45:42 <oedipus> i/SM: added @eventtarget/ScribeNick: oedipus_laptop

07:45:46 <oedipus> rrsagent,make minutes

rrsagent,make minutes ←

07:45:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

07:45:54 <oedipus> RM: shane also included in dialog

Roland Merrick: shane also included in dialog ←

07:46:08 <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0011.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0011.html ←

07:46:35 <oedipus> i/SM: issue remaining/ScribeNick: oedipus

07:46:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:46:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

07:47:28 <oedipus> regrets- Alessio

regrets- Alessio ←

07:47:37 <Steven> present+Alessio

Steven Pemberton: present+Alessio ←

07:48:02 <oedipus> SM: handler element included in handler module, right?

Shane McCarron: handler element included in handler module, right? ←

07:48:02 <oedipus> RM: yes

Roland Merrick: yes ←

07:48:18 <oedipus> SP: where is handler element now?

Steven Pemberton: where is handler element now? ←

07:48:22 <oedipus> SM: doesn't exist

Shane McCarron: doesn't exist ←

07:48:29 <oedipus> RM: trying to move from script

Roland Merrick: trying to move from script ←

07:48:49 <oedipus> SM: load external things - has @src

Shane McCarron: load external things - has @src ←

07:49:14 <oedipus> SP: handler element versus action element

Steven Pemberton: handler element versus action element ←

07:49:32 <oedipus> SM: if action element had @src could fulfil function

Shane McCarron: if action element had @src could fulfil function ←

07:49:37 <oedipus> RM: leave resources tight

Roland Merrick: leave resources tight ←

07:50:01 <oedipus> present+ Roland, Steven, Shane, Gregory, Nick

present+ Roland, Steven, Shane, Gregory, Nick ←

07:50:29 <oedipus> SM: don't want to overload action -- just use handler -- make simpler - doesn't cost anything to have in content model

Shane McCarron: don't want to overload action -- just use handler -- make simpler - doesn't cost anything to have in content model ←

07:50:39 <oedipus> RM: inside action, put handler

Roland Merrick: inside action, put handler ←

07:50:43 <Steven> Present+Raman, Uli

Steven Pemberton: Present+Raman, Uli ←

07:50:49 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:50:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

07:50:58 <oedipus> RM: handler can be child of action

Roland Merrick: handler can be child of action ←

07:51:01 <oedipus> SM: doesn't have to be

Shane McCarron: doesn't have to be ←

07:51:11 <oedipus> RM: but valid cases where one might want to

Roland Merrick: but valid cases where one might want to ←

07:52:08 <oedipus> RM: other change: option of either specifying want handler to run or function to run; where specify handler and where function?

Roland Merrick: other change: option of either specifying want handler to run or function to run; where specify handler and where function? ←

07:52:25 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:52:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

07:52:47 <oedipus> SM: Roland, do you want @implements on handler element?

Shane McCarron: Roland, do you want @implements on handler element? ←

07:53:11 <oedipus> GJR: can "see" argument for it, perhaps in case of expert handlers

Gregory Rosmaita: can "see" argument for it, perhaps in case of expert handlers ←

07:53:24 <oedipus> RM: trying to think of a reason to say no -- seems might confuse things

Roland Merrick: trying to think of a reason to say no -- seems might confuse things ←

07:54:16 <oedipus> RM: depends upon script - script in 2 diff modules - events module, handlers moule, and script module

Roland Merrick: depends upon script - script in 2 diff modules - events module, handlers moule, and script module ←

07:54:33 <oedipus> RM: just section in XHTML2 -- need script out of events module document altogether

Roland Merrick: just section in XHTML2 -- need script out of events module document altogether ←

07:55:00 <oedipus> SM: case for retention: XML module, not XHTML module; beyond XHTML; like to expose script element to world beyond XML

Shane McCarron: case for retention: XML module, not XHTML module; beyond XHTML; like to expose script element to world beyond XML ←

07:55:31 <oedipus> RM: agree with that statement; bit we need to work on is what script element says -- XML2 script element different in terms of coding, etc.

Roland Merrick: agree with that statement; bit we need to work on is what script element says -- XML2 script element different in terms of coding, etc. ←

07:55:41 <oedipus> SM: not really different - tried to normalize

Shane McCarron: not really different - tried to normalize ←

07:56:03 <oedipus> RM: when i looked were definitely differences between Base and Events

Roland Merrick: when i looked were definitely differences between Base and Events ←

07:57:00 <oedipus> RM: let's finish of the other piece: option to specify handler (ID) or function

Roland Merrick: let's finish of the other piece: option to specify handler (ID) or function ←

07:57:12 <oedipus> SM: suggesting that be global attribute?

Shane McCarron: suggesting that be global attribute? ←

07:57:24 <oedipus> RM: wherever can specify handler, can specify function

Roland Merrick: wherever can specify handler, can specify function ←

07:57:27 <oedipus> SM: yes

Shane McCarron: yes ←

07:58:06 <oedipus> SM: we need to keep in mind that everytime add global attribute, polluting global namespace more

Shane McCarron: we need to keep in mind that everytime add global attribute, polluting global namespace more ←

07:58:13 <oedipus> RM: under handler as IDREF?

Roland Merrick: under handler as IDREF? ←

07:58:18 <oedipus> SM: now a URI

Shane McCarron: now a URI ←

07:58:28 <oedipus> SP: lost use case -- what trying to achieve

Steven Pemberton: lost use case -- what trying to achieve ←

07:58:44 <oedipus> RM: either a handler or script library with all functions

Roland Merrick: either a handler or script library with all functions ←

07:58:58 <oedipus> RM: get functions from script

Roland Merrick: get functions from script ←

07:59:58 <Steven> <a href=..><action  ev:event="DomActivate">foobar()</action>Click here</a>

Steven Pemberton: <a href=..><action ev:event="DomActivate">foobar()</action>Click here</a> ←

08:00:37 <oedipus> RM: suggesting that could be name of function

Roland Merrick: suggesting that could be name of function ←

08:00:52 <oedipus> RM: how if going to attach to handler

Roland Merrick: how if going to attach to handler ←

08:00:59 <oedipus> SP: action element is a handler

Steven Pemberton: action element is a handler ←

08:01:03 <oedipus> SP: used default

Steven Pemberton: used default ←

08:01:12 <Steven> <action id="foo">foobar()</action>

Steven Pemberton: <action id="foo">foobar()</action> ←

08:01:41 <Steven> <a ev:event="DomActivate" handler="foo""  href=...>Click here</a>

Steven Pemberton: <a ev:event="DomActivate" handler="foo" href=...>Click here</a> ←

08:01:54 <Steven> s/""/"

08:01:59 <Roland_> < listener event="DOMActivate" observer="button1" handler="#doit" / >

Roland Merrick: < listener event="DOMActivate" observer="button1" handler="#doit" / > ←

08:02:32 <oedipus> RM: instead of handler, have to create actionable which has to call function - can't refer to handler from function

Roland Merrick: instead of handler, have to create actionable which has to call function - can't refer to handler from function ←

08:02:51 <oedipus> SM: like elegance of SP's solution, but entire module has no inline CDATA

Shane McCarron: like elegance of SP's solution, but entire module has no inline CDATA ←

08:02:55 <oedipus> SP: even action?

Steven Pemberton: even action? ←

08:02:58 <oedipus> SM: even action

Shane McCarron: even action ←

08:03:06 <oedipus> SP: replae with script element

Steven Pemberton: replae with script element ←

08:03:15 <oedipus> s/relae/replace

s/relae/replace (warning: replacement failed) ←

08:03:20 <oedipus> SM: don't know if will work

Shane McCarron: don't know if will work ←

08:03:23 <Steven> Present+Charlie

Steven Pemberton: Present+Charlie ←

08:03:33 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:03:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:03:51 <Steven> instead of action above

Steven Pemberton: instead of action above ←

08:03:55 <Steven> couldn't I say

Steven Pemberton: couldn't I say ←

08:04:01 <oedipus> SP: instead of action above, couldn't i say:

Steven Pemberton: instead of action above, couldn't i say: ←

08:04:22 <Steven> <script declare="declare" if="foo">foobar()</script>

Steven Pemberton: <script declare="declare" id="foo">foobar()</script> ←

08:04:32 <Steven> s/if/id/

08:05:36 <oedipus> SP: question is: how much / often the work that handler does is single function -- this is convenience, not functionality - author convenience to call function

Steven Pemberton: question is: how much / often the work that handler does is single function -- this is convenience, not functionality - author convenience to call function ←

08:06:02 <oedipus> RM: interpretation will be different depending upon culture coming from

Roland Merrick: interpretation will be different depending upon culture coming from ←

08:06:19 <oedipus> TV: what gets loaded and fired; ???? ouldn't hear reast

Scribe problem: the name 'TV' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown TV: what gets loaded and fired; ???? ouldn't hear reast ←

08:07:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:07:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:07:17 <oedipus> TV: data model

Unknown TV: data model ←

08:07:42 <oedipus> RM: earlier example in spec: listener > DOMActivate > doit function in script what put there?

Roland Merrick: earlier example in spec: listener > DOMActivate > doit function in script what put there? ←

08:08:06 <oedipus> RM: if have script function called doit, would have to create intermediary - that would be handler?

Roland Merrick: if have script function called doit, would have to create intermediary - that would be handler? ←

08:08:12 <oedipus> SP: or script

Steven Pemberton: or script ←

08:08:28 <oedipus> SM: all done is add layer of abstraction; still can't get to single function

Shane McCarron: all done is add layer of abstraction; still can't get to single function ←

08:08:35 <oedipus> SP: in my script core is that single function

Steven Pemberton: in my script core is that single function ←

08:08:40 <oedipus> RM: wouldn't execute, though

Roland Merrick: wouldn't execute, though ←

08:08:59 <oedipus> SP: would handler=#foo content of scrpt gets executed

Steven Pemberton: would handler=#foo content of scrpt gets executed ←

08:09:05 <oedipus> RM: what would happen today

Roland Merrick: what would happen today ←

08:09:10 <oedipus> SP: declare

Steven Pemberton: declare ←

08:09:14 <oedipus> SM: no such element

Shane McCarron: no such element ←

08:09:38 <ShaneM> defer [CI]  When set, this boolean attribute provides a hint to the user agent that the script is not going to generate any document content (e.g., no "document.write" in javascript) and thus, the user agent can continue parsing and rendering.

Shane McCarron: defer [CI] When set, this boolean attribute provides a hint to the user agent that the script is not going to generate any document content (e.g., no "document.write" in javascript) and thus, the user agent can continue parsing and rendering. ←

08:09:39 <oedipus> SM: is attribute "defer" - hints that not going to do DocumentWrite()

Shane McCarron: is attribute "defer" - hints that not going to do DocumentWrite() ←

08:10:00 <oedipus> SM: have @declare on action element

Shane McCarron: have @declare on action element ←

08:10:04 <oedipus> SP: not sure why

Steven Pemberton: not sure why ←

08:10:53 <oedipus> TV: no way to tell UA not to execute piece of script;

Unknown TV: no way to tell UA not to execute piece of script; ←

08:11:14 <oedipus> RM: what led to suggestion of adding function

Roland Merrick: what led to suggestion of adding function ←

08:11:50 <oedipus> RM: still have way of action invoke function

Roland Merrick: still have way of action invoke function ←

08:12:05 <oedipus> RM: actionhas function equals -- then no need of another parameter

Roland Merrick: actionhas function equals -- then no need of another parameter ←

08:12:17 <oedipus> TV: will some of these things have effect on ????

Unknown TV: will some of these things have effect on ???? ←

08:13:25 <oedipus> TV: 2 - one depends on function that came from ????

Unknown TV: 2 - one depends on function that came from ???? ←

08:15:31 <oedipus> TV: respect to javascript node - if script tag has src that gets loaded - trick to make load is do Document.Create element; do things need to block or can execution/loading of document continue

Unknown TV: respect to javascript node - if script tag has src that gets loaded - trick to make load is do Document.Create element; do things need to block or can execution/loading of document continue ←

08:16:03 <oedipus> TV: all happen after onLoadEvents fire; if have 2 blocks 1 dependent upon quote from first block, have to find these and define behavior carefully

Unknown TV: all happen after onLoadEvents fire; if have 2 blocks 1 dependent upon quote from first block, have to find these and define behavior carefully ←

08:16:10 <oedipus> SM: makes perfect sense

Shane McCarron: makes perfect sense ←

08:16:49 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, pointer? ←

08:16:49 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T08-16-49

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T08-16-49 ←

08:17:27 <oedipus> SM: discussing handler element - decided to introduce; then discussed if needed function attribute as part of global attribute set; now keep handler and that handler can invoke function

Shane McCarron: discussing handler element - decided to introduce; then discussed if needed function attribute as part of global attribute set; now keep handler and that handler can invoke function ←

08:17:43 <oedipus> SM: separate modules - XML Events does not require XML Handlers

Shane McCarron: separate modules - XML Events does not require XML Handlers ←

08:17:52 <oedipus> TV: would like to keep separate if possible

Unknown TV: would like to keep separate if possible ←

08:17:56 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1

Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←

08:17:58 <oedipus> SM: +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

08:18:11 <oedipus> SM: no way to use listener that ties to a function

Shane McCarron: no way to use listener that ties to a function ←

08:18:27 <oedipus> RM: handler is always a function could be specified in a language

Roland Merrick: handler is always a function could be specified in a language ←

08:19:13 <oedipus> TV: other way to fix - declare one of things in XML Events to be a handler (such as the handler) - handler spec can elaborate on that; XML Events client that doesn't support handler can use module

Unknown TV: other way to fix - declare one of things in XML Events to be a handler (such as the handler) - handler spec can elaborate on that; XML Events client that doesn't support handler can use module ←

08:19:25 <oedipus> RM: handler goes to events goes to listener

Roland Merrick: handler goes to events goes to listener ←

08:19:54 <oedipus> SM: another option: @handler doesn't get included into global space unless use events as well

Shane McCarron: another option: @handler doesn't get included into global space unless use events as well ←

08:20:10 <oedipus> TV: handler in handler module

Unknown TV: handler in handler module ←

08:20:17 <oedipus> GJR: like way headed

Gregory Rosmaita: like way headed ←

08:20:33 <oedipus> RM: need to work out specifics - still question - handler attribute to invoke a script

Roland Merrick: need to work out specifics - still question - handler attribute to invoke a script function ←

08:20:46 <oedipus> s/invoke a script/invoke a script function

08:21:00 <oedipus> SM: also backwards compat - events 1

Shane McCarron: also backwards compat - events 1 ←

08:21:15 <oedipus> SM: happy to define handler element in context of Event Module

Shane McCarron: happy to define handler element in context of Event Module ←

08:21:53 <oedipus> SP: in Events 1 did diliberately to try and get others to adopt XML Events

Steven Pemberton: in Events 1 did diliberately to try and get others to adopt XML Events ←

08:22:19 <oedipus> TV: Charlie, is there a voice group position on this?

Unknown TV: Charlie, is there a voice group position on this? ←

08:22:56 <oedipus> SP: other groups think our events are special; almost always turns out that they have relevance or something close to it in XForms terms where events don't fire handlers on parts of tree that are irrelevant

Steven Pemberton: other groups think our events are special; almost always turns out that they have relevance or something close to it in XForms terms where events don't fire handlers on parts of tree that are irrelevant ←

08:23:05 <oedipus> TV: event filtering

Unknown TV: event filtering ←

08:23:32 <oedipus> SP: interesting; no other spec talks about relavance like that, amybe ought to put into spec; SMIL good example

Steven Pemberton: interesting; no other spec talks about relavance like that, amybe ought to put into spec; SMIL good example ←

08:23:55 <oedipus> TV: also gets by argument that need to implement a lot of what i don't need to get what i do need

Unknown TV: also gets by argument that need to implement a lot of what i don't need to get what i do need ←

08:24:19 <oedipus> SP: 2 implements: how do you deal with relavance specially

Steven Pemberton: 2 implements: how do you deal with relavance specially ←

08:24:30 <oedipus> SP: how stop events firing on tree where shouldn't

Steven Pemberton: how stop events firing on tree where shouldn't ←

08:24:38 <oedipus> Charlie: handlers decide what to do

Scribe problem: the name 'Charlie' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Charlie: handlers decide what to do ←

08:25:24 <oedipus> SP: switch that contains element bound to something that changes, but switch not told; strictly speaking, events so go to that thing and bubble up tree, but currently doesn't

Steven Pemberton: switch that contains element bound to something that changes, but switch not told; strictly speaking, events so go to that thing and bubble up tree, but currently doesn't ←

08:25:31 <oedipus> Uli: in Shiva does

Scribe problem: the name 'Uli' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Uli: in Chiba does ←

08:25:42 <oedipus> TV: no one should notice bubble on client side

Unknown TV: no one should notice bubble on client side ←

08:26:10 <oedipus> TV: about 5 years ago had a partial implementation

Unknown TV: about 5 years ago had a partial implementation ←

08:27:01 <oedipus> TV: event list in XML: can say to handler, fire event under certain criterion -- i am done, don't do anymore

Unknown TV: event list in XML: can say to handler, fire event under certain criterion -- i am done, don't do anymore ←

08:27:39 <oedipus> TV: could could use XML handler to do conditionality -- if x is true through attributes, then relevant, otherwise, not

Unknown TV: could could use XML handler to do conditionality -- if x is true through attributes, then relevant, otherwise, not ←

08:28:15 <oedipus> TV: target phase, bubble phase or capture phase all should respect conditionality of XML handler

Unknown TV: target phase, bubble phase or capture phase all should respect conditionality of XML handler ←

08:28:30 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:28:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:29:15 <oedipus> RM: conclusion / agreement

Roland Merrick: conclusion / agreement ←

08:29:40 <unl> s/Shiva/Chiba/

08:30:05 <oedipus> RESOLVED: take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler

RESOLVED: take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler ←

08:30:21 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1

Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←

08:30:25 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1 ←

08:30:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:30:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:31:38 <oedipus> BREAK FOR 30 MINUTES

BREAK FOR 30 MINUTES ←

08:31:43 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

08:31:53 <Zakim> -oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: -oedipus ←

08:35:23 <alessio> +1

Alessio Cartocci: +1 ←

08:41:51 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:41:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:42:56 <oedipus> i/Attendees/Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html

i/Attendees/Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html (warning: replacement failed) ←

08:42:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:42:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

08:43:46 <oedipus> present- Alessio_on_IRC

present- Alessio_on_IRC ←

08:44:06 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:44:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

09:00:24 <oedipus> i/see also/Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html

(No events recorded for 16 minutes)

i/see also/Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html (warning: replacement failed) ←

09:00:29 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

09:00:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

09:04:05 <nick>  zakim, who is on the phone?

Scribe problem: the name 'nick' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown nick: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

09:04:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Executive_3 ←

09:04:15 <ShaneM> omw

Shane McCarron: omw ←

09:05:06 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

09:05:28 <Zakim> +oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: +oedipus ←

09:06:10 <ShaneM> listener says handler="#foo"

Shane McCarron: listener says handler="#foo" ←

09:06:24 <ShaneM> <handler src="whatever" />

Shane McCarron: <handler src="whatever" /> ←

09:06:59 <ShaneM> <handler src="whatever#someActionElement" />

Shane McCarron: <handler src="whatever#someActionElement" /> ←

09:07:19 <Roland_> < handler function="whatever()"  / >

Roland Merrick: < handler function="whatever" / > ←

09:07:33 <oedipus> GJR: like function better

Gregory Rosmaita: like function better ←

09:07:36 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, pointer? ←

09:07:36 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T09-07-36

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T09-07-36 ←

09:07:47 <ShaneM> <handler src="whatever.js" type="application/javascript" function="whatever" />

Shane McCarron: <handler src="whatever.js" type="application/javascript" function="whatever" /> ←

09:08:21 <Steven> present+Masataka_Yakura(remote)

Steven Pemberton: present+Masataka_Yakura(remote) ←

09:08:30 <oedipus> s/"whatever()"/"whatever"

09:09:46 <oedipus> SM: trying to understand what means; using examnple above, the symptom is going to do what?  load the resource at whatever, find the fragment identified by #someActionElement -- doesn't make sens

Shane McCarron: trying to understand what means; using examnple above, the symptom is going to do what? load the resource at whatever, find the fragment identified by #someActionElement -- doesn't make sens ←

09:09:58 <Roland_> <handler src="whatever#someActionElement" />

Roland Merrick: <handler src="whatever#someActionElement" /> ←

09:10:23 <ShaneM> <handler id="myhandler" src="whatever.js" type="application/javascript" function="whatever" />

Shane McCarron: <handler id="myhandler" src="whatever.js" type="application/javascript" function="whatever" /> ←

09:10:29 <oedipus> SP: not sure about that

Steven Pemberton: not sure about that ←

09:10:32 <Roland_> <handler id="foo" src="whatever#someActionElement" />

Roland Merrick: <handler id="foo" src="whatever#someActionElement" /> ←

09:10:37 <oedipus> SM: this is case trying to solve, right?

Shane McCarron: this is case trying to solve, right? ←

09:10:39 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

09:10:58 <oedipus> SM: guess i'm fine with that - would be as easy to put function on listener and be done with it

Shane McCarron: guess i'm fine with that - would be as easy to put function on listener and be done with it ←

09:11:29 <oedipus> SM: handler module describes action element and way to declaratively define handlers

Shane McCarron: handler module describes action element and way to declaratively define handlers ←

09:12:01 <ShaneM> <handler id="myhandler" src="#someActionElement" />

Shane McCarron: <handler id="myhandler" src="#someActionElement" /> ←

09:12:02 <oedipus> RM: doesn't explain in XML Events 1

Roland Merrick: doesn't explain in XML Events 1 ←

09:12:17 <oedipus> SM: has to be embedded?

Shane McCarron: has to be embedded? ←

09:13:12 <oedipus> SP: easy to put function on listener, so what is problem

Steven Pemberton: easy to put function on listener, so what is problem ←

09:13:37 <oedipus> RM: do we want another global attribute -- wherever a handlers attribute there would be a function

Roland Merrick: do we want another global attribute -- wherever a handlers attribute there would be a function ←

09:13:51 <oedipus> SM: hoping to come up with clever way to overload handler

Shane McCarron: hoping to come up with clever way to overload handler ←

09:13:52 <ShaneM> handler="javascript:function"

Shane McCarron: handler="javascript:function" ←

09:14:03 <oedipus> RM: one is fragment identifier - URI or function name

Roland Merrick: one is fragment identifier - URI or function name ←

09:14:27 <oedipus> SM: that would work today, for what it is worth

Shane McCarron: that would work today, for what it is worth ←

09:14:54 <oedipus> RM: wouldn't have to put javascript, name of function

Roland Merrick: wouldn't have to put javascript, name of function ←

09:14:59 <oedipus> SP: URI, not CURIE

Steven Pemberton: URI, not CURIE ←

09:15:06 <oedipus> RM: function: would also be URI

Roland Merrick: function: would also be URI ←

09:15:18 <oedipus> SP: then have to go to IETF

Steven Pemberton: then have to go to IETF ←

09:15:29 <oedipus> SM: not a formal javascript

Shane McCarron: not a formal javascript ←

09:15:33 <oedipus> SP: convention

Steven Pemberton: convention ←

09:15:49 <Steven> javascript:alert("foo")

Scribe problem: the name 'javascript' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown javascript: alert("foo") [ Scribe Assist by Steven Pemberton ] ←

09:15:49 <oedipus> SM: used for href="javascript..."

Shane McCarron: used for href="javascript..." ←

09:16:25 <oedipus> SP: tried to register schemes widely used and not registered anywhere -- ran out of time or cycles

Steven Pemberton: Bjoern Hoermann to register schemes widely used and not registered anywhere -- ran out of time or cycles ←

09:16:52 <oedipus> RM: function name with brackets

Roland Merrick: function name with brackets ←

09:16:55 <Steven> s/tried/Bjoern Hoermann/

09:17:14 <Roland_> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00

Roland Merrick: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoehrmann tried-javascript-scheme-00 ←

09:17:24 <Steven> s/mann/mann tried/

09:17:47 <Steven> s/Hoer/Hoehr/

09:18:08 <oedipus> RM: why not use

Roland Merrick: why not use ←

09:18:20 <oedipus> SM: TAG would have heart-attack

Shane McCarron: TAG would have heart-attack ←

09:18:59 <oedipus> SP: get through LC and put in example

Roland Merrick: get through LC and put in example ←

09:19:08 <Steven> s/SP/RM/

09:19:14 <oedipus> SP: Shane, your example is very clever - would never have come up with that

Steven Pemberton: Shane, your example is very clever - would never have come up with that ←

09:19:29 <oedipus> RM: someone might take this scheme trhough for all we know

Roland Merrick: someone might take this scheme trhough for all we know ←

09:19:58 <oedipus> SM: what happens with such a function: get past event context or part of global javascript feed

Shane McCarron: what happens with such a function: get past event context or part of global javascript feed ←

09:20:03 <oedipus> RM: as per SP's example

Roland Merrick: as per SP's example ←

09:20:17 <oedipus> SP: what has TAG against it -- that not registered?

Steven Pemberton: what has TAG against it -- that not registered? ←

09:20:37 <oedipus> SM: TAG doesn't like registering new schemes - want to use HTTP

Shane McCarron: TAG doesn't like registering new schemes - want to use HTTP ←

09:21:23 <oedipus> SM: WebAPI group defining widget spec - so could register in DIV - TAG said no; external group (OASIS) tried to register XIT to IETF, failed

Shane McCarron: WebAPI group defining widget spec - so could register in DIV - TAG said no; external group (OASIS) tried to register XIT to IETF, failed ←

09:21:47 <ShaneM> Would this work?  foo.js@functionName ?

Shane McCarron: Would this work? foo.js#functionName ? ←

09:21:55 <ShaneM> s/@/#/

09:22:02 <oedipus> SP: TAG objects to schemes which are just HTTP in disguise - apple has one, and just use it

Steven Pemberton: TAG objects to schemes which are just HTTP in disguise - apple has one, and just use it ←

09:22:12 <oedipus> SP: replace scheme with http still works

Steven Pemberton: replace scheme with http still works ←

09:22:34 <oedipus> SM: within iPhone architecture itself - when install app, can register scheme

Shane McCarron: within iPhone architecture itself - when install app, can register scheme ←

09:23:01 <oedipus> js#functionName

js#functionName ←

09:23:38 <oedipus> SP: as handler you know # defined by media type - application/javascript

Steven Pemberton: as handler you know # defined by media type - application/javascript ←

09:24:08 <oedipus> SP: then need to look there to find out if can use fragments

Steven Pemberton: then need to look there to find out if can use fragments ←

09:24:10 <Steven> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4329.txt

Steven Pemberton: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4329.txt ←

09:24:54 <oedipus> Scripting Media Types

Scripting Media Types ←

09:25:13 <oedipus> SM: could put function attribute on it and be done with it

Shane McCarron: could put function attribute on it and be done with it ←

09:25:19 <oedipus> RM: go back to what trying to achieve

Roland Merrick: go back to what trying to achieve ←

09:25:57 <oedipus> SM: 99% of today's use cases, @function would satisfy; could put in note that can do with handler at some time in future, but probably want to stay away from that

Shane McCarron: 99% of today's use cases, @function would satisfy; could put in note that can do with handler at some time in future, but probably want to stay away from that ←

09:26:08 <oedipus> SP: safest route is another attribute

Steven Pemberton: safest route is another attribute ←

09:26:13 <oedipus> SM: clearest for constituents

Shane McCarron: clearest for constituents ←

09:26:17 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1

Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←

09:26:20 <oedipus> RM: sounds good to me

Roland Merrick: sounds good to me ←

09:26:37 <oedipus> SM: having said all that, do we still need handler element?

Shane McCarron: having said all that, do we still need handler element? ←

09:26:42 <oedipus> SP: don't think so

Steven Pemberton: don't think so ←

09:26:52 <oedipus> SM: MarkB thinks so -- he introduced this thread

Shane McCarron: MarkB thinks so -- he introduced this thread ←

09:27:08 <oedipus> SP: would have to ask Mark

Steven Pemberton: would have to ask Mark ←

09:27:42 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

09:27:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

09:28:01 <oedipus> SM: does anyone believe that any scripting language used other than javascript?

Shane McCarron: does anyone believe that any scripting language used other than javascript? ←

09:28:24 <ShaneM> Is this adequate?    <dt id="attr-listener-function">function</dt>

Shane McCarron: Is this adequate? <dt id="attr-listener-function">function</dt> ←

09:28:24 <ShaneM>   <dd>The <code>function</code> attribute identifies an optional

Shane McCarron: <dd>The <code>function</code> attribute identifies an optional ←

09:28:24 <ShaneM>   function name that will be called when the handler is invoked by

Shane McCarron: function name that will be called when the handler is invoked by ←

09:28:24 <ShaneM>   an event listener.</dd>

Shane McCarron: an event listener.</dd> ←

09:28:35 <oedipus> SP: think that in 15 years time, maybe  - wrong to make assumption that will always predominate

Steven Pemberton: think that in 15 years time, maybe - wrong to make assumption that will always predominate ←

09:29:14 <oedipus> SP: not sure if need handler and function simultaneously

Steven Pemberton: not sure if need handler and function simultaneously ←

09:29:38 <oedipus> SM: function called when the event reaches observer

Shane McCarron: function called when the event reaches observer ←

09:29:43 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

09:30:09 <oedipus> SM: think have to say specify either a handler or a function attribute, and if specify both @function takes precedence

Shane McCarron: think have to say specify either a handler or a function attribute, and if specify both @function takes precedence ←

09:30:13 <oedipus> RM: sounds good to me

Roland Merrick: sounds good to me ←

09:30:16 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1

Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←

09:30:34 <alessio> for me too... +1

Alessio Cartocci: for me too... +1 ←

09:30:35 <oedipus> RM: function doesn't require javascript - can use other function libraries/languages

Roland Merrick: function doesn't require javascript - can use other function libraries/languages ←

09:31:09 <oedipus> RESOLVED: specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence

RESOLVED: specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence ←

09:31:26 <oedipus> SM: have abstraction built-into spec, don't know if will ever be used

Shane McCarron: have abstraction built-into spec, don't know if will ever be used ←

09:31:36 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

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09:32:14 <Roland_> Regrets+ alessio

Roland Merrick: ←

09:32:48 <oedipus> TOPIC: Script Module

3. Script Module

09:33:04 <Steven> s/Regrets+ alessio//

09:33:04 <oedipus> RM: same as in XML Events only with @function added

Roland Merrick: same as in XML Events only with @function added ←

09:34:17 <oedipus> SM: so XML Script Element

Shane McCarron: so XML Script Element ←

09:34:39 <oedipus> RM: why would it not be XHTML 1.1 or 1.2 Script Element + Implements?

Roland Merrick: why would it not be XHTML 1.1 or 1.2 Script Element + Implements? ←

09:35:53 <oedipus> SM: modules designed to move cleanly into XHTML2; in XHTML2 have broader understanding of i18n; don't care if do differently in Script Module, but going to have to change when move to XHTML2

Shane McCarron: modules designed to move cleanly into XHTML2; in XHTML2 have broader understanding of i18n; don't care if do differently in Script Module, but going to have to change when move to XHTML2 ←

09:35:55 <Steven> s/of nothing/no problem/

Steven Pemberton: s/of nothing/no problem/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

09:35:59 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#edef-SCRIPT

Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#edef-SCRIPT ←

09:36:02 <oedipus> SM: can do now or later

Shane McCarron: can do now or later ←

09:36:22 <oedipus> SM: HTML4.01 script that we care about

Shane McCarron: HTML4.01 script that we care about ←

09:36:29 <alessio> thx steven

Alessio Cartocci: thx steven ←

09:36:33 <Steven> :-)

Steven Pemberton: :-) ←

09:36:51 <oedipus> SM: @type in HTML4 is much diff than @type in XHTML2

Shane McCarron: @type in HTML4 is much diff than @type in XHTML2 ←

09:37:03 <oedipus> SM: didn't put defer in here, but could

Shane McCarron: didn't put defer in here, but could ←

09:37:24 <oedipus> SM: is what we are trying to accomplish is that this script looks like HTML 4.01 script + implements

Shane McCarron: is what we are trying to accomplish is that this script looks like HTML 4.01 script + implements ←

09:37:33 <oedipus> RM: yes, so can implment in existing browsers

Roland Merrick: yes, so can implment in existing browsers ←

09:37:49 <oedipus> SM: if that is case, we shouldn't have complex def of @type in here

Shane McCarron: if that is case, we shouldn't have complex def of @type in here ←

09:38:19 <oedipus> SM: Steven, XML Events 2 right now uses definitions from XHTML2

Shane McCarron: Steven, XML Events 2 right now uses definitions from XHTML2 ←

09:38:40 <oedipus> SP: XHTML2 has extended version of @type, but if another app going to use XML Events may not want that def of @type

Steven Pemberton: XHTML2 has extended version of @type, but if another app going to use XML Events may not want that def of @type ←

09:39:04 <oedipus> SP: no objection to XML Events 2 having simpler @type as long as doesn't ruin generic @type in XHTML2

Steven Pemberton: no objection to XML Events 2 having simpler @type as long as doesn't ruin generic @type in XHTML2 ←

09:39:15 <oedipus> SP: M12n allows us to extend an attribute, right

Steven Pemberton: M12n allows us to extend an attribute, right ←

09:39:16 <oedipus> SM: sure

Shane McCarron: sure ←

09:39:55 <oedipus> SM: if agree to change, will rip out complex content-type lang and replace with stuff from HTML4.01

Shane McCarron: if agree to change, will rip out complex content-type lang and replace with stuff from HTML4.01 ←

09:40:17 <oedipus> RM: @id element?

Roland Merrick: @id element? ←

09:40:41 <oedipus> SM: everything has @id in XHTML

Shane McCarron: everything has @id in XHTML ←

09:40:46 <oedipus> RM: id or xml:id

Roland Merrick: id or xml:id ←

09:41:04 <oedipus> SM: interesting discussion we should have

Shane McCarron: interesting discussion we should have ←

09:41:37 <oedipus> SM: if goal is this is used generically in XML languages, would make sense to remove @id from this spec, which is used in context of other host languages

Shane McCarron: if goal is this is used generically in XML languages, would make sense to remove @id from this spec, which is used in context of other host languages ←

09:41:40 <oedipus> RM: agree

Roland Merrick: agree ←

09:42:49 <oedipus> SP: everyone uses @id -- allow people to use other attributes -- don't want to replicate problem with XFOrms where assumed that host language would define @id, in the end had to put it back in

Steven Pemberton: everyone uses @id -- allow people to use other attributes -- don't want to replicate problem with XFOrms where assumed that host language would define @id, in the end had to put it back in ←

09:44:03 <oedipus> RM: would be legitimate - don't have to use javascript if have @function

Roland Merrick: would be legitimate - don't have to use javascript if have @function ←

09:44:21 <oedipus> RM: do we know what we are doing with script

Roland Merrick: do we know what we are doing with script ←

09:44:33 <oedipus> SM: believe so -- trying to find definition of @id

Shane McCarron: believe so -- trying to find definition of @id ←

09:45:02 <alessio> id could be still useful as immediate "pointer" for an element

Alessio Cartocci: @id could be still useful as immediate "pointer" for an element ←

09:45:36 <alessio> s/id/@id/

09:45:45 <oedipus> SM: plan with document?

Shane McCarron: plan with document? ←

09:45:54 <oedipus> RM: go through changes, review and take to LC

Roland Merrick: go through changes, review and take to LC ←

09:46:27 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-core.html#adef_core_id

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-core.html#adef_core_id ←

09:47:24 <oedipus> SM: think inherited from HTML 4.01

Shane McCarron: think inherited from HTML 4.01 ←

09:47:32 <oedipus> RM: add to XHTML 1.2?

Roland Merrick: add to XHTML 1.2? ←

09:47:34 <oedipus> SM: no

Shane McCarron: no ←

09:47:41 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-core.html#adef_core_id

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml2-20071024/mod-core.html#adef_core_id ←

09:48:38 <oedipus> SP: text def of id is attribute that assigns an identifier to element

Steven Pemberton: text def of id is attribute that assigns an identifier to element ←

09:49:07 <oedipus> SM: taking high-level details

Shane McCarron: taking high-level details ←

09:49:12 <ShaneM>   <dd>The optional id attribute assigns an identifier to an element. The value of this attribute must be unique within a document. This attribute MUST NOT be specified on an element in conjunction with the xml:id attribute.</dd>

Shane McCarron: <dd>The optional id attribute assigns an identifier to an element. The value of this attribute must be unique within a document. This attribute MUST NOT be specified on an element in conjunction with the xml:id attribute.</dd> ←

09:49:46 <oedipus> SM: makes sens to mention xml:id here in regards scripting

Shane McCarron: makes sens to mention xml:id here in regards scripting ←

09:49:57 <oedipus> SM: coding versus charset - what do we want to do?

Shane McCarron: coding versus charset - what do we want to do? ←

09:50:06 <oedipus> RM: XHTML 1.0 says what?

Roland Merrick: XHTML 1.0 says what? ←

09:50:24 <oedipus> SM: changed for XHTML2 in response to comment from i18n

Shane McCarron: changed for XHTML2 in response to comment from i18n ←

09:50:31 <oedipus> SP: could leave in encoding

Steven Pemberton: could leave in encoding ←

09:50:36 <oedipus> SP: encoding only for the source

Steven Pemberton: encoding only for the src attribute ←

09:51:01 <oedipus> SM: wants to map cleanly to script in HTML 4.01

Shane McCarron: wants to map cleanly to script in HTML 4.01 ←

09:51:05 <Steven> s/source/src attribute/

09:51:38 <oedipus> SP: 2 options: leave; include both to allow for future developments; or just add in XHTML2

Steven Pemberton: 2 options: leave; include both to allow for future developments; or just add in XHTML2 ←

09:51:57 <oedipus> RM: add in XHTML2 and deprecate old one

Roland Merrick: add in XHTML2 and deprecate old one ←

09:52:22 <oedipus> SM: put in note: "in future version of module expect to change base encoding..."

Shane McCarron: put in note: "in future version of module expect to change base encoding..." ←

09:52:36 <oedipus> RM: don't know what value that adds other than to melt minds

Roland Merrick: don't know what value that adds other than to melt minds ←

09:52:42 <oedipus> SM: ok

Shane McCarron: ok ←

09:53:20 <oedipus> SM: now have: @src, @type, @implement - do we need @defer?  think has no semantics and should skip

Shane McCarron: now have: @src, @type, @implements - do we need @defer? think has no semantics and should skip ←

09:53:41 <Steven> s/implement/implements

09:53:45 <oedipus> RM: if have no use for it, leave it out

Roland Merrick: if have no use for it, leave it out ←

09:53:53 <oedipus> RM: is in XHTML 1.0?

Roland Merrick: is in XHTML 1.0? ←

09:53:59 <oedipus> SP: everything in 1.0

Steven Pemberton: everything in 1.0 ←

09:54:04 <oedipus> RM: XHTML 1.1?

Roland Merrick: XHTML 1.1? ←

09:54:07 <alessio> @SM I agree

Alessio Cartocci: @SM I agree ←

09:54:27 <oedipus> SM: in 1.1

Shane McCarron: in 1.1 ←

09:54:44 <oedipus> RM: same as 1.1 with addition of @implements - XHTML2 script element

Roland Merrick: same as 1.1 with addition of @implements - XHTML2 script element ←

09:55:00 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#adef-defer

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#adef-defer ←

09:55:31 <oedipus> RESOLVED: remove @defer from script element

RESOLVED: keep everything from HTML 4.01 definition of script ←

09:55:39 <oedipus> RM: finished topic?

Roland Merrick: finished topic? ←

09:55:50 <oedipus> SM: think so

Shane McCarron: think so ←

09:56:52 <oedipus> s/remove @defer from script element/keep everything from HTML 4.01 definition of script

09:56:57 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

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09:58:04 <oedipus> s/keep everything from HTML 4.01 definition of script/keep everything from XHTML 1.0 definition of script

09:58:07 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

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created using i/RM: topic haven't addressed/Topic: Fallout of M12N 1.1

4. Fallout of M12N 1.1

09:58:53 <oedipus> RM: topic haven't addressed: now that have M12n as Rec need to update other specs - can we discuss after lunch -- fallout from getting M12n to Rec

Roland Merrick: topic haven't addressed: now that have M12n as Rec need to update other specs - can we discuss after lunch -- fallout from getting M12n to Rec ←

09:59:07 <oedipus> SM: pretty sure in all in mail

Shane McCarron: pretty sure in all in mail ←

created using i/RM: topic haven't/TOPIC: Fallout of M12n

5. Fallout of M12n

09:59:20 <Steven> i/RM: topic haven't addressed/Topic: Fallout of M12N 1.1

09:59:24 <Roland_> Now that XHTML M12N 1.1 is a REC, we need to update our other specs.

Roland Merrick: Now that XHTML M12N 1.1 is a REC, we need to update our other specs. ←

09:59:24 <Roland_> There are new versions in shape for PER that include the schema

Roland Merrick: There are new versions in shape for PER that include the schema ←

09:59:24 <Roland_> implementations.  They include XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML Print

Roland Merrick: implementations. They include XHTML 1.1, XHTML Basic 1.1, XHTML Print ←

09:59:24 <Roland_> 1.0, and RDFa Syntax 1.0.  We should decide a strategy for moving these

Roland Merrick: 1.0, and RDFa Syntax 1.0. We should decide a strategy for moving these ←

09:59:24 <Roland_> forward.

Roland Merrick: forward. ←

09:59:28 <oedipus> i/RM: topic haven't/TOPIC: Fallout of M12n

09:59:52 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

09:59:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

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10:00:12 <oedipus> SP: Basic, Print, and RDFa

Steven Pemberton: Basic, Print, and RDFa ←

10:00:35 <oedipus> RM: 1.1 Second Edition

Roland Merrick: 1.1 Second Edition ←

10:00:40 <oedipus> SM: will all be second edition

Shane McCarron: will all be second edition ←

10:01:06 <oedipus> RM: 1.1 SE has been waiting for M12n for quite a while

Roland Merrick: 1.1 SE has been waiting for M12n for quite a while ←

10:01:14 <oedipus> RM: strategy?

Roland Merrick: strategy? ←

10:01:22 <oedipus> SP: add reference and shove out there

Steven Pemberton: add reference and shove out there ←

10:01:32 <oedipus> SM: updated all drafts as SE and are all ready to go

Shane McCarron: updated all drafts as SE and are all ready to go ←

10:01:37 <oedipus> SP: way to go Shane!

Steven Pemberton: way to go Shane! ←

10:01:46 <oedipus> SM: think these are PERs per W3C process

Shane McCarron: think these are PERs per W3C process ←

10:01:49 <oedipus> SP: that's right

Steven Pemberton: that's right ←

10:02:07 <oedipus> SM: can't imagine any real contention or difficulty in moving forward;

Shane McCarron: can't imagine any real contention or difficulty in moving forward; ←

10:02:24 <oedipus> SM: check errata to ensure all addressed;

Shane McCarron: check errata to ensure all addressed; ←

10:03:41 <oedipus> SM: RDFa synax odd man out; asked melinda to ask XHTML Print comminity for errata; Print, Basic and XHTML 1.1 we can submit as single submission: same style of change, etc.

Shane McCarron: RDFa synax odd man out; asked melinda to ask XHTML Print comminity for errata; Print, Basic and XHTML 1.1 we can submit as single submission: same style of change, etc. ←

10:04:01 <oedipus> RM: seems reasonable: M12n is underpinning

Roland Merrick: seems reasonable: M12n is underpinning ←

10:04:23 <oedipus> RM: Basic so new, don't think there is errata for that yet

Roland Merrick: Basic so new, don't think there is errata for that yet ←

10:04:56 <oedipus> RM: www-html-editor where to find errata?

Roland Merrick: www-html-editor where to find errata? ←

10:04:58 <oedipus> SM: yep

Shane McCarron: yep ←

10:05:06 <oedipus> RM: fun for the whole family...

Roland Merrick: fun for the whole family... ←

10:05:52 <oedipus> SM: RDFa Syntax unusual - produced in conjunction with another group in Task Force - up to TF to decide to take to PER?

Shane McCarron: RDFa Syntax unusual - produced in conjunction with another group in Task Force - up to TF to decide to take to PER? ←

10:06:07 <oedipus> SM: my guess is ben will want to do a stability check on it first

Shane McCarron: my guess is ben will want to do a stability check on it first ←

10:10:01 <oedipus> SM: W3C process questions for SP: Basic, Print, and XHTML 1.1

Shane McCarron: W3C process questions for SP: Basic, Print, and XHTML 1.1 ←

10:10:14 <oedipus> SP: if errata, work in, add schemas and then submit

Steven Pemberton: if errata, work in, add schemas and then submit ←

10:10:22 <oedipus> SM: submit all in one transition call

Shane McCarron: submit all in one transition call ←

10:10:28 <oedipus> SP: best approach

Steven Pemberton: best approach ←

10:10:59 <oedipus> SM: concerned about tracking errata -- need to do a sweep of www-html-editor for the last 5 years

Shane McCarron: concerned about tracking errata -- need to do a sweep of www-html-editor for the last 5 years ←

10:11:36 <oedipus> SP: can garuntee that when producing agenda that everytime something new on html-editor, i put on agenda, so i think only need to do a year's trawling/trolling

Steven Pemberton: can garuntee that when producing agenda that everytime something new on html-editor, i put on agenda, so i think only need to do a year's trawling/trolling ←

10:11:48 <oedipus> SM: never added anything to an errata docmument ever

Shane McCarron: never added anything to an errata docmument ever ←

10:12:11 <oedipus> SM: troll agenda to find issues identified; just need to ensure resulted in decision

Shane McCarron: troll agenda to find issues identified; just need to ensure resulted in decision ←

10:12:42 <oedipus> SM: according to melinda 2 typos which i fixed

Shane McCarron: according to melinda 2 typos which i fixed ←

10:13:04 <oedipus> SM: print went to rec in September 2006

Shane McCarron: print went to rec in September 2006 ←

10:14:05 <oedipus> SP: comment on fieldset sub-elements; Shane and Melinda replied

Steven Pemberton: comment on fieldset sub-elements; Shane and Melinda replied ←

10:15:02 <oedipus> SP: fieldset asked and disposed - no other comments on Print

Steven Pemberton: fieldset asked and disposed - no other comments on Print ←

10:15:39 <oedipus> RM: looking for mentions of XHTML 1.1 in html-editor

Roland Merrick: looking for mentions of XHTML 1.1 in html-editor ←

10:15:44 <oedipus> RM: flattened DTD

Roland Merrick: flattened DTD ←

10:16:00 <oedipus> RM: talking about second edition flattened DTD so that's ok

Roland Merrick: talking about second edition flattened DTD so that's ok ←

10:16:24 <oedipus> RM: most recent one - replied

Roland Merrick: most recent one - replied ←

10:16:55 <oedipus> SM: if any stuff need to update, should do it; technically, if stuff in errata doc, should be reflected, but errata docs empty

Shane McCarron: if any stuff need to update, should do it; technically, if stuff in errata doc, should be reflected, but errata docs empty ←

10:20:13 <oedipus> SM: all indications are that there aren't any dangling erratas

Shane McCarron: all indications are that there aren't any dangling erratas ←

10:20:31 <Steven> Mayakura?

Steven Pemberton: Mayakura? ←

10:20:39 <oedipus> SP: isn't mayakura our Basic rep -- he is here now, so let's ask him

Steven Pemberton: isn't myakura our Basic rep -- he is here now, so let's ask him ←

10:20:44 <Steven> Myakura?

Steven Pemberton: Myakura? ←

10:20:59 <Steven> s/may/my/

10:21:06 <oedipus> s/mayakura/myakura

s/mayakura/myakura (warning: replacement failed) ←

10:22:27 <myakura> yes?

Masataka Yakura: yes? ←

10:24:16 <ShaneM> are you aware of any errata or comments against XHTML Basic 1.1 as of yet?

Shane McCarron: are you aware of any errata or comments against XHTML Basic 1.1 as of yet? ←

10:25:32 <myakura> ShaneM: not really.

Shane McCarron: not really. [ Scribe Assist by Masataka Yakura ] ←

10:25:34 <oedipus> RM: need to work through these items - when to submit

Roland Merrick: need to work through these items - when to submit ←

10:25:42 <oedipus> SP: shouldn't be too much process work

Steven Pemberton: shouldn't be too much process work ←

10:26:00 <myakura> doesn't think i'm the rep for Basic though...

Masataka Yakura: doesn't think i'm the rep for Basic though... ←

10:26:01 <oedipus> SM: want to verify schema implementation works (by someone other than me)

Shane McCarron: want to verify schema implementation works (by someone other than me) ←

10:26:13 <oedipus> RM: worth talking with validator guys

Roland Merrick: worth talking with validator guys ←

10:26:24 <oedipus> SM: if had schema validation, would e

Shane McCarron: if had schema validation, would be ←

10:26:32 <oedipus> s/would e/would be

10:27:58 <oedipus> myakura just told me he is unaware of any errors

myakura just told me he is unaware of any errors ←

10:28:04 <ShaneM> XML Events 2 updated at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081024/

Shane McCarron: XML Events 2 updated at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081024/ ←

10:28:04 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2001/03/webdata/xsv

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2001/03/webdata/xsv ←

10:28:31 <ShaneM> myakura: oh - sorry.  Someone indicated you might know about it.  We will ping Yam.  Thanks!

Masataka Yakura: oh - sorry. Someone indicated you might know about it. We will ping Yam. Thanks! [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ] ←

10:28:48 <myakura> no probs :)

Masataka Yakura: no probs :) ←

10:29:17 <oedipus> SM: not obvious how to use XSV

Shane McCarron: not obvious how to use XSV ←

10:29:26 <oedipus> SP: bad user interface

Steven Pemberton: bad user interface ←

10:29:43 <oedipus> SM: was able to use to validate schema along with oxygen and other tools

Shane McCarron: was able to use to validate schema along with oxygen and other tools ←

10:30:01 <oedipus> SM: reasonably confident, but until use schema in anger, won't know if work

Shane McCarron: reasonably confident, but until use schema in anger, won't know if work ←

10:30:32 <oedipus> SP: could provide interface -- validate your doc against any of these schemas - XHTML validator

Steven Pemberton: could provide interface -- validate your doc against any of these schemas - XHTML validator ←

10:30:39 <oedipus> SM: not a bad idea

Shane McCarron: not a bad idea ←

10:31:58 <oedipus> SM: need to resolve to move to PER as soon as possible

Shane McCarron: need to resolve to move to PER as soon as possible ←

10:32:41 <oedipus> RESOLVED: take Basic 1.1, Print 1.1, XHTML 1.1 to PER as soon as errata check finished

RESOLVED: take Basic 1.1, Print 1.1, XHTML 1.1 to PER as soon as errata check finished ←

10:33:03 <oedipus> SP: will email RDFa task force about monvement on that front

Steven Pemberton: will email RDFa task force about monvement on that front ←

10:33:10 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:33:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

10:33:29 <ShaneM> updated draft with schema of RDFa Syntax is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081018/

Shane McCarron: updated draft with schema of RDFa Syntax is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081018/ ←

10:34:06 <oedipus> ADJOURN FOR LUNCH: RETURN IN 60 MINUTES

ADJOURN FOR LUNCH: RETURN IN 60 MINUTES ←

10:34:19 <Zakim> -oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: -oedipus ←

10:35:39 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

10:36:21 <Zakim> -Executive_3

Scribe problem: the name 'Executive_3' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Executive_3 ←

10:36:22 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended ←

10:36:23 <Zakim> Attendees were oedipus, Executive_3, ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were oedipus, Executive_3, ShaneM ←

10:36:49 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Back at 11:3O utc

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: Back at 11:3O utc ←

10:39:12 <oedipus> [fyi] Using ARIA Live Regions to Make Twitter Tweet: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/index.php?s=twitter

[fyi] Using ARIA Live Regions to Make Twitter Tweet: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/index.php?s=twitter ←

11:29:23 <oedipus> aloha, alessio -- i have a question for you (and possibly diego and roberto) about iframe - i haven't finished the emessage yet, but i think i did point you to http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame

(No events recorded for 50 minutes)

aloha, alessio -- i have a question for you (and possibly diego and roberto) about iframe - i haven't finished the emessage yet, but i think i did point you to http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame ←

11:36:57 <oedipus> problem is, there aren't any com ports anymore for hardware TTS, and the newer screen readers don't support hardware TTS, which is why i'm trying to work with the RNIB on a sourceforge project for hardware speech support for stuff like NVDA

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

problem is, there aren't any com ports anymore for hardware TTS, and the newer screen readers don't support hardware TTS, which is why i'm trying to work with the RNIB on a sourceforge project for hardware speech support for stuff like NVDA ←

11:37:30 <ShaneM> in your copious free time?

Shane McCarron: in your copious free time? ←

11:38:22 <oedipus> something like that -- it's just that if NVDA wants to get ANY market penetration into the mainstream it HAS to support older tech, as  hardware synths were VERY expensive

something like that -- it's just that if NVDA wants to get ANY market penetration into the mainstream it HAS to support older tech, as hardware synths were VERY expensive ←

11:38:46 <oedipus> i'm looking for other to do the coding - i'm just simon legree

i'm looking for other to do the coding - i'm just simon legree ←

11:39:00 <oedipus> trying to harvest graduate students

trying to harvest graduate students ←

11:39:09 <oedipus> which is always a dangerous thing

which is always a dangerous thing ←

11:39:26 <ShaneM> can be rewarding but yeah - takes a lot off effort

Shane McCarron: can be rewarding but yeah - takes a lot off effort ←

11:39:56 <oedipus> you said it -- that's why even the "mainstream" ATs are moving towards software everything

you said it -- that's why even the "mainstream" ATs are moving towards software everything ←

11:40:11 <oedipus> but 70% of the target population is unemployed

but 70% of the target population is unemployed ←

11:40:25 <oedipus> statistics that are similar throughout the "developed" world

statistics that are similar throughout the "developed" world ←

11:41:03 <ShaneM> thats a shockingly high number.  sometime you will have to explain to me how that 70% eats

Shane McCarron: thats a shockingly high number. sometime you will have to explain to me how that 70% eats ←

11:41:47 <oedipus> which is why i've been trying to get WAI to set up proxy servers for 12 years -- see if the concept/fix works and if it does, implement it, but leave the proxy up ther for those whose hardware is "frozen in time"

which is why i've been trying to get WAI to set up proxy servers for 12 years -- see if the concept/fix works and if it does, implement it, but leave the proxy up ther for those whose hardware is "frozen in time" ←

11:41:50 <oedipus> food stamps

food stamps ←

11:43:04 <Roland_> I do not, but my "vanilla" dog didn't really like stamps

Roland Merrick: I do not, but my "vanilla" dog didn't really like stamps ←

11:43:33 <Roland_> 06postma01n

Roland Merrick: 06postma01n ←

11:43:33 <oedipus> those are the numbers according to AFB (in USA) RNIB (in UK) and australia & NZ

those are the numbers according to AFB (in USA) RNIB (in UK) and australia & NZ ←

11:43:52 <oedipus> that's one postman who won't ring twice

that's one postman who won't ring twice ←

11:44:21 <ShaneM> are we getting ready to restart?

Shane McCarron: are we getting ready to restart? ←

11:44:39 <oedipus> to see what most blind people are dealing with, check http://www.braillewithoutborders.org/ENGLISH/index.html

to see what most blind people are dealing with, check http://www.braillewithoutborders.org/ENGLISH/index.html ←

11:45:27 <oedipus> 1 hour, 10 minutes & 56 seconds according to my stopwatch since we broke

1 hour, 10 minutes & 56 seconds according to my stopwatch since we broke ←

11:45:45 <oedipus> i have a stopwatch on my talking watch

i have a stopwatch on my talking watch ←

11:47:33 <ShaneM> zakim left us

Shane McCarron: zakim left us ←

11:47:48 <oedipus> steven dismissed him

steven dismissed him ←

11:47:54 <Steven> Di not

Steven Pemberton: Di not ←

11:47:58 <Steven> did not

Steven Pemberton: did not ←

11:47:58 <oedipus> they have to connect first

they have to connect first ←

11:48:07 <oedipus> oh, then maybe it was roland

oh, then maybe it was roland ←

11:48:10 <Steven> zakim, this is xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this is xhtml ←

11:48:10 <Zakim> ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()3:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()3:00AM ←

11:48:18 <Steven> zakim, call executive_3

Steven Pemberton: zakim, call executive_3 ←

11:48:18 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

11:48:20 <Zakim> +Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: +Executive_3 ←

11:48:50 <Zakim> +oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: +oedipus ←

11:49:01 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

11:49:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Executive_3, oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Executive_3, oedipus ←

11:50:53 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler

RESOLVED: take handler out, put into Events Module, ability to invoke script function will be added to handler ←

11:50:55 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence

RESOLVED: specify either a handler or a function attribute; if specify both @function takes precedence ←

11:50:55 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: keep everything from XHTML 1.0 definition of script

RESOLVED: keep everything from XHTML 1.1 definition of script ←

11:51:07 <Steven> s/1.0/1.1/

11:51:16 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12n

6. XHTML Mime

11:52:12 <oedipus> s/TOPIC: M12n/TOPIC: XHTML Mime

11:52:32 <oedipus> RM: Shane had dialog with commentor

Roland Merrick: Shane had dialog with commentor ←

11:52:40 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/ ←

11:52:50 <oedipus> We recommend that XHTML be delivered as HTML, but that means it is not valid HTML. Do we care?

We recommend that XHTML be delivered as HTML, but that means it is not valid HTML. Do we care? ←

11:53:09 <oedipus> (above from agenda)

(above from agenda) ←

11:53:33 <oedipus> SM: high level: applied most of simon's edits; not much from others;

Shane McCarron: high level: applied most of simon's edits; not much from others; ←

11:53:53 <oedipus> SM: asked for clarification on few issues and he did that

Shane McCarron: asked for clarification on few issues and he did that ←

11:54:26 <oedipus> SM: in this document - original Note and updating - original Note did thurough job of looking at all media types might deliver XML/XHTML document

Shane McCarron: in this document - original Note and updating - original Note did thurough job of looking at all media types might deliver XML/XHTML document ←

11:54:45 <oedipus> SM: does it make sense to talk about DTDs and discourage their use

Shane McCarron: does it make sense to talk about DTDs and discourage their use ←

11:55:12 <oedipus> SM: Section 3.3 - application/xml

Shane McCarron: Section 3.3 - application/xml ←

11:55:17 <oedipus> SP: reads document

Steven Pemberton: reads document ←

11:55:50 <oedipus> SP: worth pointing out that can do it, but may not always be processed as XHTML

Steven Pemberton: worth pointing out that can do it, but may not always be processed as XHTML ←

11:56:03 <oedipus> RM: while may work, recommend you don't do this

Roland Merrick: while may work, recommend you don't do this ←

11:56:17 <oedipus> RM: shouldn't we recommend one over other

Roland Merrick: shouldn't we recommend one over other ←

11:56:37 <oedipus> SP: allow both, not champion one over other - ok to serve HTML to XML processor

Steven Pemberton: allow both, not champion one over other - ok to serve HTML to XML processor ←

11:56:41 <oedipus> q+

q+ ←

11:57:06 <oedipus> RM: application/xml and application+xml that have to say diff things about them

Roland Merrick: application/xml and application+xml that have to say diff things about them ←

11:57:20 <oedipus> RM: what it is that we recommend should or should not do them

Roland Merrick: what it is that we recommend should or should not do them ←

11:57:35 <oedipus> RM: you MAY or you SHOULD?

Roland Merrick: you MAY or you SHOULD? ←

12:00:15 <oedipus> RM: who is meant to read document?

Roland Merrick: who is meant to read document? ←

12:00:21 <oedipus> SM: document authors

Shane McCarron: document authors ←

12:00:52 <oedipus> RM: shouldn't we then be more explicit about XHTML family and modularization?

Roland Merrick: shouldn't we then be more explicit about XHTML family and modularization? ←

12:01:10 <oedipus> SM: don't know how to answer that question

Shane McCarron: don't know how to answer that question ←

12:01:28 <oedipus> RM: less technically correct - this applies to XHTML 1.0, XHTML 1.1 or XHTML Basic 1.1

Roland Merrick: less technically correct - this applies to XHTML 1.0, XHTML 1.1 or XHTML Basic 1.1 ←

12:01:33 <oedipus> SM: doesn't just apply to those

Shane McCarron: doesn't just apply to those ←

12:01:58 <oedipus> RM: XHTML 1.1 Basic adoption by author application of XHTML Modularization

Roland Merrick: XHTML 1.1 Basic adoption by author application of XHTML Modularization ←

12:02:39 <oedipus> RM: can we put it that way -- if it begins with X, then it is XHTML and an author application of modularizatino

Roland Merrick: can we put it that way -- if it begins with X, then it is XHTML and an author application of modularizatino ←

12:02:54 <oedipus> SM: if this doc talks about M12n anywhere is a mistake

Shane McCarron: if this doc talks about M12n anywhere is a mistake ←

12:02:59 <oedipus> SM: mentions rec

Shane McCarron: mentions rec ←

12:03:08 <oedipus> RM: reads from abstract

Roland Merrick: reads from abstract ←

12:03:31 <oedipus> RM: is that really the case?

Roland Merrick: is that really the case? ←

12:04:16 <oedipus> RM: that's why there are XHTML Media Types - only read this doc if want to write XHTML and how to best get processed by User Agent

Roland Merrick: that's why there are XHTML Media Types - only read this doc if want to write XHTML and how to best get processed by User Agent ←

12:04:18 <oedipus> SM: ok

Shane McCarron: ok ←

12:04:37 <oedipus> RM: this is Note produced by us

Roland Merrick: this is Note produced by us ←

12:04:43 <oedipus> RM: Introduction

Roland Merrick: Introduction ←

12:05:00 <oedipus> RM: talks about XHTML1 versus HTML 4.01

Roland Merrick: talks about XHTML1 versus HTML 4.01 ←

12:05:06 <oedipus> SM: historical data

Shane McCarron: historical data ←

12:06:16 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

12:06:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

12:06:57 <oedipus> RM: Introduction: brief summary

Roland Merrick: Introduction: brief summary ←

12:07:29 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/#intro

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/#intro ←

12:08:31 <oedipus> RM: some stuff we don't want - they chose language, so will get what they get - language designer, not m12n that made that decision

Roland Merrick: some stuff we don't want - they chose language, so will get what they get - language designer, not m12n that made that decision ←

12:08:52 <oedipus> RM: too much for people to say "do i have to worry about all this?  i'll just use HTML 4.01"

Roland Merrick: too much for people to say "do i have to worry about all this? i'll just use HTML 4.01" ←

12:09:04 <oedipus> SM: ok - strike first paragraph?

Shane McCarron: ok - strike first paragraph? ←

12:09:14 <oedipus> RM: actually last paragraph

Roland Merrick: actually last paragraph ←

12:09:26 <oedipus> "Note that, because of the lack of explicit support for XHTML (and XML in general) in some user agents, only very careful construction of documents can ensure their portability (see Appendix A). If you do not require the advanced features of XHTML Family markup languages (e.g., XML DOM, XML Validation, extensibility via XHTML Modularization, semantic markup via XHTML+RDFa, Assistive Technology access via the XHTML Role and XHTML Access modules, etc.), you may w

"Note that, because of the lack of explicit support for XHTML (and XML in general) in some user agents, only very careful construction of documents can ensure their portability (see Appendix A). If you do not require the advanced features of XHTML Family markup languages (e.g., XML DOM, XML Validation, extensibility via XHTML Modularization, semantic markup via XHTML+RDFa, Assistive Technology access via the XHTML Role and XHTML Access modules, etc.), you may w ←

12:10:19 <oedipus> SM: happy to reword, but last paragraph addresses objection tina had (we really should tell people use HTML4 unless need XHTML) - reasonable - don't jump through hoops if don't have to

Shane McCarron: happy to reword, but last paragraph addresses objection tina had (we really should tell people use HTML4 unless need XHTML) - reasonable - don't jump through hoops if don't have to ←

12:10:25 <oedipus> RM: terms and definitions

Roland Merrick: terms and definitions ←

12:10:55 <oedipus> XHTML Family Document Type: "A document type which belongs to the family of XHTML document types. Such document types include [XHTML1], and XHTML Host Language document types such as XHTML 1.1 [XHTML11] and XHTML Basic [XHTMLBasic]. Elements and attributes in those document types belong to the XHTML namespace (except those from the XML namespace, such as xml:lang), but an XHTML Family document type may also include elements and attributes from other namespaces,

XHTML Family Document Type: "A document type which belongs to the family of XHTML document types. Such document types include [XHTML1], and XHTML Host Language document types such as XHTML 1.1 [XHTML11] and XHTML Basic [XHTMLBasic]. Elements and attributes in those document types belong to the XHTML namespace (except those from the XML namespace, such as xml:lang), but an XHTML Family document type may also include elements and attributes from other namespaces, ←

12:11:35 <oedipus> RM: support XHTML, but "host language document type" matter to reader of doc?

Roland Merrick: support XHTML, but "host language document type" matter to reader of doc? ←

12:11:56 <oedipus> SM: defined because term is used in previous definition - you are right - more academic approach than needed

Shane McCarron: defined because term is used in previous definition - you are right - more academic approach than needed ←

12:12:07 <oedipus> RM: Section 3.2

Roland Merrick: Section 3.2 ←

12:12:17 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/#application-xhtml-xml

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081022/#application-xhtml-xml ←

12:12:31 <oedipus> SM: only docs that adhere to our structural reqs can use this media type

Shane McCarron: only docs that adhere to our structural reqs can use this media type ←

12:12:34 <alessio> agree with roland

Alessio Cartocci: agree with roland ←

12:13:09 <oedipus> RM: that's why concentrating on reading from  author's PoV

Roland Merrick: that's why concentrating on reading from author's PoV ←

12:14:17 <oedipus> RM: same with application type - obscure terms versus critical terms

Roland Merrick: same with application type - obscure terms versus critical terms ←

12:14:56 <oedipus> RM: if i am a document author, don't need to understand a lot of what is explained

Roland Merrick: if i am a document author, don't need to understand a lot of what is explained ←

12:15:12 <oedipus> GJR: agree -- type of thing that makes people say "it's all geek to me"

Gregory Rosmaita: agree -- type of thing that makes people say "it's all geek to me" ←

12:15:55 <alessio> yeah, that's true gregory

Alessio Cartocci: yeah, that's true gregory ←

12:16:13 <oedipus> RM: just tell me what to do, save theory for another document

Roland Merrick: just tell me what to do, save theory for another document ←

12:16:39 <oedipus> SM: originally not intended for document authors as it was to explain to XHTML2 what works and what doesn't in real world

Shane McCarron: originally not intended for document authors as it was to explain to XHTML2 what works and what doesn't in real world ←

12:17:20 <oedipus> RM: significance check of terms - integration document set; host language document type

Roland Merrick: significance check of terms - integration document set; host language document type ←

12:17:55 <oedipus> SM: in previous term define XHTML family; would define XHTML Family by turning def around

Shane McCarron: in previous term define XHTML family; would define XHTML Family by turning def around ←

12:18:13 <oedipus> Section 3: 3. Recommended Media Type Usage

Section 3: 3. Recommended Media Type Usage ←

12:18:37 <oedipus> RM: looks clear to me

Roland Merrick: looks clear to me ←

12:18:38 <oedipus> @@@@Issue: Do we believe that XHTML documents that adhere to the guidelines are "valid" HTML? Should that be a goal?@@@@

@@@@Issue: Do we believe that XHTML documents that adhere to the guidelines are "valid" HTML? Should that be a goal?@@@@ ←

12:18:54 <oedipus> SM: Simon objects to this; i may be being obtuse

Shane McCarron: Simon objects to this; i may be being obtuse ←

12:18:58 <oedipus> SP: what is objection

Steven Pemberton: what is objection ←

12:19:15 <oedipus> SM: thinks we are defining content-negotiation and are  doing it ppoorly

Shane McCarron: thinks we are defining content-negotiation and are doing it ppoorly ←

12:20:01 <oedipus> SM: shouldn't be redefining rules of content negotiations in doc

Shane McCarron: shouldn't be redefining rules of content negotiations in doc ←

12:20:32 <oedipus> SM: hadn't considered that problem; thinking had been if UA prefers text/html, give in xhtml because that is what it is

Shane McCarron: hadn't considered that problem; thinking had been if UA prefers text/html, give in xhtml because that is what it is ←

12:21:29 <oedipus> RM: if accept header that states application/xhtml+xml ...

Roland Merrick: if accept header that states application/xhtml+xml ... ←

12:21:48 <ShaneM> if the Accept header explicitly contains <code>application/xhtml+xml</code>

Shane McCarron: if the Accept header explicitly contains <code>application/xhtml+xml</code> ←

12:21:48 <ShaneM>     and prefers it over other types

Shane McCarron: and prefers it over other types ←

12:21:48 <ShaneM>     deliver the document using that media type.

Shane McCarron: deliver the document using that media type. ←

12:21:51 <Steven> then deliver as xhtml because that is what it is

Steven Pemberton: then deliver as xhtml because that is what it is ←

12:22:38 <oedipus> SP: what is our aim? deliver XHTML - so deliver as xhtml, and problem over

Steven Pemberton: what is our aim? deliver XHTML - so deliver as xhtml, and problem over ←

12:22:52 <oedipus> SM: exactly

Shane McCarron: exactly ←

12:23:06 <oedipus> SP: trying to say if doesn't accept xhtml, have to do something else

Steven Pemberton: trying to say if doesn't accept xhtml, have to do something else ←

12:23:54 <oedipus> SM: if that is case - what WG wants to say - not defining content negotiation, but telling author if explicitly containx xhtml (with no Qvalue) deliver using that media type

Shane McCarron: if that is case - what WG wants to say - not defining content negotiation, but telling author if explicitly containx xhtml (with no Qvalue) deliver using that media type ←

12:24:39 <oedipus> SM: point 2: if explicitly contains xhtml ... (missed)

Shane McCarron: point 2: if explicitly contains xhtml ... (missed) ←

12:24:56 <oedipus> SM: point 3: if */*, then deliver what can

Shane McCarron: point 3: if */*, then deliver what can ←

12:25:13 <oedipus> RM: if text/html and xhtml, regardless of priorities, serve xhtml

Roland Merrick: if text/html and xhtml, regardless of priorities, serve xhtml ←

12:25:36 <oedipus> RM: if can handle xhtml, always parse the xhtml

Roland Merrick: if can handle xhtml, always parse the xhtml ←

12:26:06 <oedipus> SM: anything beyond point 4 is gilding the lilly

Shane McCarron: anything beyond point 4 is gilding the lilly ←

12:26:34 <oedipus> RM: doesn't recommend xhtml text/html or */* - have to know what media types DOM is capable of - no recommendation

Roland Merrick: doesn't recommend xhtml text/html or */* - have to know what media types DOM is capable of - no recommendation ←

12:27:00 <oedipus> GJR: makes sense, can only tell authors what to do, can't control parsing

Gregory Rosmaita: makes sense, can only tell authors what to do, can't control parsing ←

12:27:17 <oedipus> SP: want to say right up front that not redefining content negotiation

Steven Pemberton: want to say right up front that not redefining content negotiation ←

12:27:25 <oedipus> RM: yes, need to make very clear

Roland Merrick: yes, need to make very clear ←

12:28:05 <ShaneM> This section summarizes which Internet media type should

Shane McCarron: This section summarizes which Internet media type should ←

12:28:05 <ShaneM> be used for which XHTML Family document for which purpose.

Shane McCarron: be used for which XHTML Family document for which purpose. ←

12:28:05 <ShaneM> Note that while some suggestions are made in this section with

Shane McCarron: Note that while some suggestions are made in this section with ←

12:28:05 <ShaneM> regard to content delivery, this section is by no means

Shane McCarron: regard to content delivery, this section is by no means ←

12:28:05 <ShaneM> a comprehensive discussion of content negotiation techniques.

Shane McCarron: a comprehensive discussion of content negotiation techniques. ←

12:28:58 <oedipus> plus 1 to general gist

plus 1 to general gist ←

12:30:32 <oedipus> RM: state intended readership up front?

Roland Merrick: state intended readership up front? ←

12:30:46 <oedipus> SM: yes, definitely

Shane McCarron: yes, definitely ←

12:31:53 <ShaneM> abstract: Many people want to use XHTML to author their web pages, but are confused

Scribe problem: the name 'abstract' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown abstract: Many people want to use XHTML to author their web pages, but are confused [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ] ←

12:31:53 <ShaneM> about the best ways to deliver those pages in such a way that they will be

Shane McCarron: about the best ways to deliver those pages in such a way that they will be ←

12:31:53 <ShaneM> processed correctly by various user agents. This Note contains

Shane McCarron: processed correctly by various user agents. This Note contains ←

12:31:53 <ShaneM> suggestions

Shane McCarron: suggestions ←

12:31:54 <ShaneM> about how to format XHTML to ensure it is maximally portable, and how to deliver

Shane McCarron: about how to format XHTML to ensure it is maximally portable, and how to deliver ←

12:31:54 <ShaneM> XHTML to various user agents - even those that do not yet support XHTML natively.

Shane McCarron: XHTML to various user agents - even those that do not yet support XHTML natively. ←

12:31:56 <ShaneM> This document is intended to be used by document authors who want to use

Shane McCarron: This document is intended to be used by document authors who want to use ←

12:31:58 <ShaneM> XHTML today, but want to be confident that their XHTML content is going to

Shane McCarron: XHTML today, but want to be confident that their XHTML content is going to ←

12:32:00 <ShaneM> work in the greatest number of environments.

Shane McCarron: work in the greatest number of environments. ←

12:33:08 <alessio> it has "pratical" sense...

Alessio Cartocci: it has "pratical" sense... ←

12:34:14 <Steven> Looks good to me

Steven Pemberton: Looks good to me ←

12:34:45 <alessio> yes, me too

Alessio Cartocci: yes, me too ←

12:34:54 <oedipus> SM: Section 3 - what to do when XML doc does not adhere to guidelines

Shane McCarron: Section 3 - what to do when XML doc does not adhere to guidelines ←

12:35:18 <oedipus> SM: if doesn't adhere, don't send as text/html - needs transformation, not false declaration

Shane McCarron: if doesn't adhere, don't send as text/html - needs transformation, not false declaration ←

12:35:54 <oedipus> SM: Simon pointed out shouldn't deliver html documents because not valid

Shane McCarron: Simon pointed out shouldn't deliver html documents because not valid ←

12:36:10 <oedipus> SP: shouldn't be saying "getting XHTML into browser"

Steven Pemberton: should be saying "getting XHTML into browser" ←

12:36:19 <Steven> s/n't/

12:36:23 <Steven> s/n't//

12:36:31 <oedipus> RM: if you do these things, it will be sufficient to get effect you want in most UAs

Roland Merrick: if you do these things, it will be sufficient to get effect you want in most UAs ←

12:36:40 <oedipus> SM: Steven, strike entire paragraph

Shane McCarron: Steven, strike entire paragraph? ←

12:36:52 <oedipus> s/paragraph/paragraph?

12:37:21 <oedipus> RM: maybe should say  nothing

Roland Merrick: maybe should say nothing ←

12:38:37 <oedipus> SM: it is about document performance, not UA limitatinos

Shane McCarron: it is about document performance, not UA limitatinos ←

12:38:53 <oedipus> RM: use at own risk - will evolve -- suggestions to improve chances

Roland Merrick: use at own risk - will evolve -- suggestions to improve chances ←

12:39:07 <oedipus> SM: up to us to keep document up to date - fix, and update periodically

Shane McCarron: up to us to keep document up to date - fix, and update periodically ←

12:39:40 <oedipus> SM: strike entire paragraph?

Shane McCarron: strike entire paragraph? ←

12:39:43 <ShaneM> Steve suggested: When an XHTML document does NOT adhere to the guidelines, it should only be delivered as media type <code>application/xhtml+xml</code>.

Shane McCarron: Steve suggested: When an XHTML document does NOT adhere to the guidelines, it should only be delivered as media type <code>application/xhtml+xml</code>. ←

12:39:50 <oedipus> RM: strike it and see

Roland Merrick: strike it and see ←

12:40:24 <oedipus> SM: added at specific request

Shane McCarron: added at specific request ←

12:40:34 <oedipus> RM: pragmatic, not purist, document

Roland Merrick: pragmatic, not purist, document ←

12:40:45 <oedipus> SM: removed all RFC2119 words

Shane McCarron: removed all RFC2119 words ←

12:43:01 <oedipus> SM: remove about transforming into HTML?

Shane McCarron: remove about transforming into HTML? ←

12:46:02 <oedipus> SM: haven't removed any guidelines, but rules in 1.0 still in document - backwards compatibility there

Shane McCarron: haven't removed any guidelines, but rules in 1.0 still in document - backwards compatibility there ←

12:46:05 <oedipus> GJR: right

Gregory Rosmaita: right ←

12:47:10 <oedipus> SM: Simon said "why still asserting this - no longer relevant" - no longer relevant to opera 9, but where does that get the world?

Shane McCarron: Simon said "why still asserting this - no longer relevant" - no longer relevant to opera 9, but where does that get the world? ←

12:47:29 <oedipus> "Note: It is possible that in the future XHTML Modularization will define rules for indicating which specific XHTML Family members are supported by a requestor (e.g., via the profile parameter of the media type in the Accept header). Such rules, when used in conjunction with the "q" parameter of the media type could help a server determine which of several versions of a document to deliver - thereby allowing server-side customization of content for specific cla

"Note: It is possible that in the future XHTML Modularization will define rules for indicating which specific XHTML Family members are supported by a requestor (e.g., via the profile parameter of the media type in the Accept header). Such rules, when used in conjunction with the "q" parameter of the media type could help a server determine which of several versions of a document to deliver - thereby allowing server-side customization of content for specific cla ←

12:47:57 <oedipus> SP: XHTML Basic gets delivered with profile

Steven Pemberton: XHTML Basic gets delivered with profile ←

12:48:08 <oedipus> SP: OMA spec includes something along those lines

Steven Pemberton: OMA spec includes something along those lines ←

12:48:43 <oedipus> RM: what would make me do something different in raction to note?

Roland Merrick: what would make me do something different in raction to note? ←

12:48:48 <oedipus> SM: none - remove

Shane McCarron: none - remove ←

12:49:34 <oedipus> RM: should be as short as we can make it and no shorter

Roland Merrick: should be as short as we can make it and no shorter ←

12:50:28 <oedipus> SM: section 3.4 should be 3.1

Shane McCarron: section 3.2 should be 3.1 ←

12:50:48 <oedipus> s/3.4/3.2

12:50:55 <oedipus> RM: seemed out of order to me

Roland Merrick: seemed out of order to me ←

12:51:41 <oedipus> RM: when conforms to guidelines in this document "carefully constrcuted" means what?

Roland Merrick: when conforms to guidelines in this document "carefully constrcuted" means what? ←

12:52:18 <oedipus> SM: will fix

Shane McCarron: will fix ←

12:52:34 <oedipus> SM: character encoding

Shane McCarron: character encoding ←

12:52:50 <oedipus> RM: trying to figure out how to express why matters to me as author

Roland Merrick: trying to figure out how to express why matters to me as author ←

12:53:03 <oedipus> SM: don't need to give all background; just tell them what to do

Shane McCarron: don't need to give all background; just tell them what to do ←

12:53:15 <oedipus> SM: doesn't tell what to do anyway

Shane McCarron: doesn't tell what to do anyway ←

12:53:34 <oedipus> SM: GL9 in Appendix A.9

Shane McCarron: GL9 in Appendix A.9 ←

12:53:45 <oedipus> DO encode your document in UTF-8 or UTF-16. When delivering the document from a server, DO set the character encoding for a document via the charset parameter of the HTTP Content-Type header. When not delivering the document from a server, DO set the encoding via a "meta http-equiv" statement in the document (e.g., <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=EUC-JP" />). However, note that doing so will explicitly bind the document to an a singl

DO encode your document in UTF-8 or UTF-16. When delivering the document from a server, DO set the character encoding for a document via the charset parameter of the HTTP Content-Type header. When not delivering the document from a server, DO set the encoding via a "meta http-equiv" statement in the document (e.g., <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=EUC-JP" />). However, note that doing so will explicitly bind the document to an a singl ←

12:53:45 <oedipus> Rationale: Since these guidelines already recommend that documents NOT contain the XML declaration, setting the encoding via the HTTP header is the only reliable mechanism compatible with HTML and XML user agents. When that mechanism is not available, the only portable fallback is the "meta http-equiv" statement.

Scribe problem: the name 'Rationale' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Rationale: Since these guidelines already recommend that documents NOT contain the XML declaration, setting the encoding via the HTTP header is the only reliable mechanism compatible with HTML and XML user agents. When that mechanism is not available, the only portable fallback is the "meta http-equiv" statement. ←

12:54:08 <oedipus> SM: Simon said example silly (change to japanese at end)

Shane McCarron: Simon said example silly (change to japanese at end) ←

12:54:24 <oedipus> RM: beware of character encoding issues, in particular GL/A.9

Roland Merrick: beware of character encoding issues, in particular GL/A.9 ←

12:54:34 <oedipus> RM: why reiterate?

Roland Merrick: why reiterate? ←

12:55:06 <oedipus> RM: if have guidelines, point to them, don't reiterate them

Roland Merrick: if have guidelines, point to them, don't reiterate them ←

12:55:36 <oedipus> SM: if content in here i care about, will push down to guidelines

Shane McCarron: if content in here i care about, will push down to guidelines ←

12:55:53 <oedipus> SM: 3.3. 'application/xml'

Shane McCarron: 3.3. 'application/xml' ←

12:56:05 <oedipus> RM: all is honky-dory - procede - no problem

Roland Merrick: all is honky-dory - procede - no problem ←

12:56:27 <oedipus> RM: run trhough validator; if valid, procede

Roland Merrick: run through validator; if valid, procede ←

12:56:35 <oedipus> s/trhough/through

12:56:53 <oedipus> RM: bit of overkill

Roland Merrick: bit of overkill ←

12:57:16 <oedipus> SM: put in because validator people trying to enforce validity guidelines

Shane McCarron: put in because validator people trying to enforce validity guidelines ←

12:58:26 <oedipus> s/SM: 3.3 'application/xml'/SM: 3.2 application/xhtml+xml

s/SM: 3.3 'application/xml'/SM: 3.2 application/xhtml+xml (warning: replacement failed) ←

12:58:43 <oedipus> SM: XML stylesheet processing instructions?  keep?

Shane McCarron: XML stylesheet processing instructions? keep? ←

12:58:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

12:58:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

13:00:07 <oedipus> SP: idea that this is XML so should use XML features where possible; when XML and HTML feaature, XML feature should get priority

Steven Pemberton: idea that this is XML so should use XML features where possible; when XML and HTML feaature, XML feature should get priority ←

13:00:37 <oedipus> SM: not XSLT, but sytlesheet PI

Shane McCarron: not XSLT, but sytlesheet PI ←

13:00:55 <oedipus> SM: will just remove paragraph

Shane McCarron: will just remove paragraph ←

13:01:04 <oedipus> SM: final paragraph - character encoding issues

Shane McCarron: final paragraph - character encoding issues ←

13:01:17 <oedipus> RM: thought was all utf-8

Roland Merrick: thought was all utf-8 ←

13:01:30 <oedipus> SM: if serving as text/html can serve as whatever you want

Shane McCarron: if serving as text/html can serve as whatever you want ←

13:01:59 <oedipus> RM: recommendations?  HTML4 as well as XHTML

Roland Merrick: recommendations? HTML4 as well as XHTML ←

13:02:22 <oedipus> SM: if that is the case shouldn't be telling people to ignore guidelines

Shane McCarron: if that is the case shouldn't be telling people to ignore guidelines ←

13:02:42 <oedipus> SM: if message is you care about portability, follow the guidelines

Shane McCarron: if message is you care about portability, follow the guidelines ←

13:02:47 <oedipus> RM: content-encoding

Roland Merrick: content-encoding ←

13:03:40 <oedipus> RM: circular reference

Roland Merrick: circular reference ←

13:04:06 <oedipus> SM: doesn't depend on RFC

Shane McCarron: doesn't depend on RFC ←

13:04:27 <oedipus> SM: documented in 3.3 - says same thing we already believe it wants

Shane McCarron: documented in 3.3 - says same thing we already believe it wants ←

13:06:20 <oedipus> SM: will be document processing agents, not user agents - search engines, and trawling tools

Shane McCarron: will be document processing agents, not user agents - search engines, and trawling tools ←

13:06:53 <oedipus> RM: 3rd paragraph - "generic user agent"

Roland Merrick: 3rd paragraph - "generic user agent" ←

13:07:21 <oedipus> RM: user agent give what it asks for, don't worry about it

Roland Merrick: user agent give what it asks for, don't worry about it ←

13:07:38 <oedipus> SM: suggest leave 3.3 and 3.4 - remove references to other media types from this document

Shane McCarron: suggest leave 3.3 and 3.4 - remove references to other media types from this document ←

13:08:20 <oedipus> RM: reference 3.3 to 3.2

Roland Merrick: reference 3.3 to 3.2 ←

13:08:28 <oedipus> SM: think can remove summary section

Shane McCarron: think can remove summary section ←

13:08:33 <oedipus> RM: refer to it early on

Roland Merrick: refer to it early on ←

13:08:42 <oedipus> RM: looks too complicated

Roland Merrick: looks too complicated ←

13:08:52 <oedipus> RM: althought will be a lot smaller

Roland Merrick: althought will be a lot smaller ←

13:09:25 <oedipus> SM: we've said what preference rules are and why should use; at beginning of section 3, should expand on it - already did

Shane McCarron: we've said what preference rules are and why should use; at beginning of section 3, should expand on it - already did ←

13:10:51 <oedipus> SM: in section on application/xhml+xml - if document uses other namespaces MUST use this mime type

Shane McCarron: in section on application/xhml+xml - if document uses other namespaces MUST use this mime type ←

13:11:00 <oedipus> RM: reverse and put in other section

Roland Merrick: reverse and put in other section ←

13:11:38 <oedipus> RM: Appendix A looks better with DO NOTs and DOs

Roland Merrick: Appendix A looks better with DO NOTs and DOs ←

13:12:25 <oedipus> RM: Appendix A

Roland Merrick: Appendix A ←

13:12:32 <oedipus> RM: Appendix A.1 - sounds good

Roland Merrick: Appendix A.1 - sounds good ←

13:13:13 <oedipus> SM: made all changes SimonP wanted, so should be satisfied - when done with whinnowing process, we should go back and add more examples

Shane McCarron: made all changes SimonP wanted, so should be satisfied - when done with whinnowing process, we should go back and add more examples ←

13:13:36 <oedipus> RM: A.2, A.3 fine to me

Roland Merrick: A.2, A.3 fine to me ←

13:13:53 <oedipus> SM: added extras to A.4

Shane McCarron: added extras to A.4 ←

13:15:12 <oedipus> RM: A.4 actually works?

Roland Merrick: A.4 actually works? ←

13:15:13 <oedipus> SM: yes

Shane McCarron: yes ←

13:15:17 <oedipus> RM: will be using

Roland Merrick: will be using ←

13:15:34 <oedipus> SM: A.5 because is allowed

Shane McCarron: A.5 because is allowed ←

13:15:57 <oedipus> SM: A.6 missing - deleted rule - reluctant to renumber other rules because map to XHTML 1.0

Shane McCarron: A.6 missing - deleted rule - reluctant to renumber other rules because map to XHTML 1.0 ←

13:16:08 <oedipus> SP: could say A.6 Deleted

Steven Pemberton: could say A.6 Deleted ←

13:16:17 <oedipus> RM: or superseded by events

Roland Merrick: or superseded by events ←

13:16:36 <oedipus> GJR: thanks for A.7

Gregory Rosmaita: thanks for A.7 ←

13:17:44 <oedipus> SM: need to complete second "DO NOT"

Shane McCarron: need to complete second "DO NOT" ←

13:17:50 <oedipus> RM: should not use one or the other

Roland Merrick: should not use one or the other ←

13:17:55 <oedipus> SM: rationale says why

Shane McCarron: rationale says why ←

13:18:06 <oedipus> SM: reinforces why need to reintroduce into XHTML2

Shane McCarron: reinforces why need to reintroduce into XHTML2 ←

13:18:25 <oedipus> SM: A.8 Fragment Identifiers

Shane McCarron: A.8 Fragment Identifiers ←

13:18:36 <oedipus> SP: very good

Steven Pemberton: very good ←

13:18:44 <oedipus> GJR: 2 thumbs up (guess where)

Gregory Rosmaita: 2 thumbs up (guess where) ←

13:18:57 <oedipus> SM: meta stuff addressed in A.9

Shane McCarron: meta stuff addressed in A.9 ←

13:20:12 <oedipus> "DO encode your document in UTF-8 or UTF-16. When delivering the document from a server, DO set the character encoding for a document via the charset parameter of the HTTP Content-Type header. When not delivering the document from a server, DO set the encoding via a "meta http-equiv" statement in the document (e.g., <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=EUC-JP" />). However, note that doing so will explicitly bind the document to an a sing

"DO encode your document in UTF-8 or UTF-16. When delivering the document from a server, DO set the character encoding for a document via the charset parameter of the HTTP Content-Type header. When not delivering the document from a server, DO set the encoding via a "meta http-equiv" statement in the document (e.g., <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=EUC-JP" />). However, note that doing so will explicitly bind the document to an a sing ←

13:20:38 <oedipus> "Rationale: Since these guidelines already recommend that documents NOT contain the XML declaration, setting the encoding via the HTTP header is the only reliable mechanism compatible with HTML and XML user agents. When that mechanism is not available, the only portable fallback is the "meta http-equiv" statement."

"Rationale: Since these guidelines already recommend that documents NOT contain the XML declaration, setting the encoding via the HTTP header is the only reliable mechanism compatible with HTML and XML user agents. When that mechanism is not available, the only portable fallback is the "meta http-equiv" statement." ←

13:20:46 <oedipus> SM: covered here

Shane McCarron: covered here ←

13:21:03 <oedipus> SM: changed EUC-JP to utf-i

Shane McCarron: changed EUC-JP to utf-8 ←

13:21:12 <oedipus> s/utf-i/utf-8

13:21:25 <oedipus> RM: Move on to Appendix B

Roland Merrick: Move on to Appendix A.10 ←

13:21:43 <oedipus> s/B/A.10

13:21:49 <oedipus> SM: not sure got this right

Shane McCarron: not sure got this right ←

13:22:41 <oedipus> SM: can rely on html DOM methods; overlap with XHTML DOM; but XHTML DOM not going to return elements and attributes in upper case

Shane McCarron: can rely on html DOM methods; overlap with XHTML DOM; but XHTML DOM not going to return elements and attributes in upper case ←

13:23:05 <oedipus> SM: think portable is: rely upon the DOM

Shane McCarron: think portable is: rely upon the DOM ←

13:23:09 <oedipus> SP: all need to say

Steven Pemberton: all need to say ←

13:23:29 <oedipus> SM: bit about element and attribute names meaningful - uppercase versus lowercase

Shane McCarron: bit about element and attribute names meaningful - uppercase versus lowercase ←

13:23:55 <oedipus> RM: if want to be case insensitive, use lower, otherwise will have to use camelcase

Roland Merrick: if want to be case insensitive, use lower, otherwise will have to use camelcase ←

13:24:10 <oedipus> RM: be sensitive to case

Roland Merrick: be sensitive to case ←

13:24:37 <oedipus> SM: DO ensure element and attribute names are case insensitive in your scripts.

Shane McCarron: DO ensure element and attribute names are case insensitive in your scripts. ←

13:25:40 <oedipus> RM: A.12 seems fine

Roland Merrick: A.12 seems fine ←

13:25:52 <oedipus> RM: just needs examples

Roland Merrick: just needs examples ←

13:25:58 <alessio> yes

Alessio Cartocci: yes ←

13:28:01 <oedipus> RM: A.14 - ok

Roland Merrick: A.14 - ok ←

13:28:14 <oedipus> RM: A.15 formfeed character

Roland Merrick: A.15 formfeed character ←

13:28:22 <oedipus> SP: fixed in later XML

Steven Pemberton: fixed in later XML ←

13:28:31 <oedipus> RM: no harm in doing this

Roland Merrick: no harm in doing this ←

13:29:35 <oedipus> RM: A.16 - ok

Roland Merrick: A.16 - ok ←

13:29:57 <oedipus> RM: A.17 The XML DTD Internal Subset

Roland Merrick: A.17 The XML DTD Internal Subset ←

13:30:16 <oedipus> SM: A.18 perhaps too strong

Shane McCarron: A.18 perhaps too strong ←

13:30:30 <oedipus> "DO NOT use the XML CDATA mechanism."

"DO NOT use the XML CDATA mechanism." ←

13:31:12 <oedipus> SM: contradict with A.4 - bring into harmony

Shane McCarron: contradict with A.4 - bring into harmony ←

13:31:43 <oedipus> RM: A.19 - just tbody?

Roland Merrick: A.19 - just tbody? ←

13:31:58 <oedipus> SM: thought were ignored, not inferred?

Shane McCarron: thought were ignored, not inferred? ←

13:32:07 <oedipus> SM: don't think are in DOM

Shane McCarron: don't think are in DOM ←

13:32:21 <oedipus> SM: Steven, might be right that there is another inferred element

Shane McCarron: Steven, might be right that there is another inferred element ←

13:33:36 <oedipus> SP: context of stylesheets, think just tbody

Steven Pemberton: context of stylesheets, think just tbody ←

13:34:13 <oedipus> RM: DO use the base element if you need to establish an alternate base URI for your document. should be in same block as ""DO NOT use the xml:base element.

Roland Merrick: DO use the base element if you need to establish an alternate base URI for your document. should be in same block as ""DO NOT use the xml:base element. ←

13:34:42 <oedipus> RM: document.write - do not use

Roland Merrick: document.write - do not use ←

13:34:48 <oedipus> SM: wondering if rationale is right

Shane McCarron: wondering if rationale is right ←

13:35:47 <oedipus> SP: parsing models for XML doesn't require halving on fly; document.write only works with streaming parsers, so shouldn't use it; might do reader some good explaining how to do so modifies DOM directly

Steven Pemberton: parsing models for XML doesn't require halving on fly; document.write only works with streaming parsers, so shouldn't use it; might do reader some good explaining how to do so modifies DOM directly ←

13:35:53 <oedipus> SM: a "do" clause?

Shane McCarron: a "do" clause? ←

13:36:13 <oedipus> RM: if this is what you ar etrying to achieve, use DOM manipulation to achieve same effect

Roland Merrick: if this is what you ar etrying to achieve, use DOM manipulation to achieve same effect ←

13:36:51 <oedipus> RM: 22 application/xml and the DOM

Roland Merrick: 22 application/xml and the DOM ←

13:36:55 <oedipus> SM: get rid of it?

Shane McCarron: get rid of it? ←

13:36:58 <oedipus> SP: yes,

Steven Pemberton: yes, ←

13:37:33 <oedipus> SM: 23 put in over tina's objection "updating document using innerHTML"

Shane McCarron: 23 put in over tina's objection "updating document using innerHTML" ←

13:37:43 <oedipus> SP: is this difference between HTML and XHTML rule

Steven Pemberton: is this difference between HTML and XHTML rule ←

13:38:03 <oedipus> SM: simon said ensure content is well formed and here is GL if going to

Shane McCarron: simon said ensure content is well formed and here is GL if going to ←

13:38:07 <oedipus> RM: reasonable caveat

Roland Merrick: reasonable caveat ←

13:38:13 <oedipus> SM: took one step further

Shane McCarron: took one step further ←

13:38:40 <oedipus> RM: example, such as that needed for document.write - show how to do properly if need to do it

Roland Merrick: example, such as that needed for document.write - show how to do properly if need to do it ←

13:39:11 <oedipus> RM: 24 scripts and missing tbody elemtns

Roland Merrick: 24 scripts and missing tbody elemtns ←

13:39:22 <oedipus> SP: still don't understand why 23 in here?

Steven Pemberton: still don't understand why 23 in here? ←

13:39:34 <oedipus> SM: have to ensure that conforms to GL if going to insert it

Shane McCarron: have to ensure that conforms to GL if going to insert it ←

13:40:05 <oedipus> SP: link should be in rationale

Steven Pemberton: link should be in rationale ←

13:40:17 <oedipus> SP: 25 says too much and too little

Steven Pemberton: 25 says too much and too little ←

13:40:56 <oedipus> "Rationale: In HTML 4, these properties were often specified on the body element. CSS specifies that in XHTML they need to be specified on the html element in order to apply to the entire viewport."

"Rationale: In HTML 4, these properties were often specified on the body element. CSS specifies that in XHTML they need to be specified on the html element in order to apply to the entire viewport." ←

13:41:04 <oedipus> SM: and CSS spec says works that way

Shane McCarron: and CSS spec says works that way ←

13:41:20 <oedipus> SP: insisted spec say that because couldn't do any other way - compromise

Steven Pemberton: insisted spec say that because couldn't do any other way - compromise ←

13:42:04 <oedipus> SP: ensure any CSS properties on HTML element are also specified on BODY element

Steven Pemberton: ensure any CSS properties on HTML element are also specified on BODY element ←

13:42:36 <oedipus> SP: warning is: if serve XHTML as xhtml, garuntee that CSS will work - if serve as html will work in some browsers and not in others

Steven Pemberton: warning is: if serve XHTML as xhtml, garuntee that CSS will work - if serve as html will work in some browsers and not in others ←

13:42:53 <oedipus> SM: diff problem - CSS on body element, syles bounding box of body, not  viewport

Shane McCarron: diff problem - CSS on body element, syles bounding box of body, not viewport ←

13:42:58 <oedipus> SM: very different effects

Shane McCarron: very different effects ←

13:43:24 <oedipus> SP: standard thing to do is switch everything off HTML and onto BODY

Steven Pemberton: standard thing to do is switch everything off HTML and onto BODY ←

13:43:50 <oedipus> SP: On some user agents, put initial sytling on HTML some on BODY, so have to code CSS to take that to into account

Steven Pemberton: On some user agents, put initial sytling on HTML some on BODY, so have to code CSS to take that to into account ←

13:44:18 <oedipus> SM: ensure properties on HTML also on BODY is fine

Shane McCarron: ensure properties on HTML also on BODY is fine ←

13:44:32 <oedipus> SP: rationale is some UAs recognize in BODY or HTML

Steven Pemberton: rationale is some UAs recognize in BODY or HTML ←

13:45:43 <oedipus> SM: 26 - didn't realize problem with noscript

Shane McCarron: 26 - didn't realize problem with noscript ←

13:47:38 <oedipus> SM: if scripting is enabled, contents of noscript parsed as CCDATA if script parsed as CDATA

Shane McCarron: if scripting is enabled, contents of noscript parsed as CCDATA if script parsed as CDATA ←

13:47:50 <oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame ←

13:48:57 <oedipus> SM: 37 iframe Element

Shane McCarron: 27 iframe Element ←

13:49:24 <oedipus> s/37 iframe/27 iframe

13:51:21 <oedipus> SP: noscript needed because of document.write

Steven Pemberton: noscript needed because of document.write ←

13:51:48 <oedipus> SM: thought no script was for alternative to script

Shane McCarron: thought no script was for alternative to script ←

13:52:18 <oedipus> SP: if do all with DOM mutations, initial version of document can contain script that deletes the element

Steven Pemberton: if do all with DOM mutations, initial version of document can contain script that deletes the element ←

13:52:50 <oedipus> SP: functionality is there if use script - if use document.write version to change then do need noscript to catch that

Steven Pemberton: functionality is there if use script - if use document.write version to change then do need noscript to catch that ←

13:53:08 <oedipus> SM: 37 iframe Element

Shane McCarron: 37 iframe Element ←

13:53:15 <oedipus> SP: need explanation

Steven Pemberton: need explanation ←

13:56:06 <oedipus> SM: simon says content is parsed differently - in HTML parsed as CDATA when scripting enabled, or PCDATA when scripting disabled, but in XML alwasy parsed as CDATA - same problem as noscript

Shane McCarron: simon says content is parsed differently - in HTML parsed as CDATA when scripting enabled, or PCDATA when scripting disabled, but in XML alwasy parsed as CDATA - same problem as noscript ←

13:56:20 <oedipus> SM: don't know if compatibility issue

Shane McCarron: don't know if compatibility issue ←

13:56:39 <oedipus> SP: not only if evaluated as HTML or XHTML but whether scripting enabled or not

Steven Pemberton: not only if evaluated as HTML or XHTML but whether scripting enabled or not ←

13:56:56 <oedipus> SM: need to copy bit from noscript one

Shane McCarron: need to copy bit from noscript one ←

13:57:32 <oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/IFrame ←

14:04:18 <oedipus>    1. What is the current state of accessibility of IFRAME?

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

1. What is the current state of accessibility of IFRAME? ←

14:04:18 <oedipus>    2. What are the outstanding accessibility problems inherit to IFRAME, or have they been mitigated?

2. What are the outstanding accessibility problems inherit to IFRAME, or have they been mitigated? ←

14:04:18 <oedipus>          1. if, for example, one has a document embedded in an IFRAME which has access keys defined for it, will the embedded document's UI controls take precedence when the focus is in the IFRAME? what about conflicts between embedded UI controls and UI controls in host documents? what if a tabindex value has been defined for the IFRAME, and the document in the IFRAME has its own tabindex order?

1. if, for example, one has a document embedded in an IFRAME which has access keys defined for it, will the embedded document's UI controls take precedence when the focus is in the IFRAME? what about conflicts between embedded UI controls and UI controls in host documents? what if a tabindex value has been defined for the IFRAME, and the document in the IFRAME has its own tabindex order? ←

14:04:18 <oedipus> The basic question is: How do the 2 documents interact and what can be done to standardize this interaction? Is it possible to harmonize W3C's efforts on IFRAME reform, which include IFRAME in XHTML2 (a subject currently being revisited after having been dropped), the XHTML IFRAME Module and the XHTML Legacy Module versus IFRAME in HTML5) with OpenAjax's support for iFrames?

The basic question is: How do the 2 documents interact and what can be done to standardize this interaction? Is it possible to harmonize W3C's efforts on IFRAME reform, which include IFRAME in XHTML2 (a subject currently being revisited after having been dropped), the XHTML IFRAME Module and the XHTML Legacy Module versus IFRAME in HTML5) with OpenAjax's support for iFrames? ←

14:05:06 <oedipus> RM: good if have demonstrative positive example will benefit intended reader base

Roland Merrick: good if have demonstrative positive example will benefit intended reader base ←

14:05:54 <alessio> we could investigate possible interactions between IFRAME and wai-aria

Alessio Cartocci: we could investigate possible interactions between IFRAME and wai-aria ←

14:06:12 <oedipus> SP: ODF wants to use RDFa in documents, and wanted to use xml:broccoli - allowed according to namespacing rules

Steven Pemberton: ODF wants to use RDFa in documents, and wanted to use xml:broccoli - allowed according to namespacing rules ←

14:06:21 <oedipus> @alessio -- yes, definitely

@alessio -- yes, definitely ←

14:07:22 <oedipus> SM: RDFa - does it define an attribute collection?

Shane McCarron: RDFa - does it define an attribute collection? ←

14:08:08 <oedipus> SM: Metadata Attribute Collection

Shane McCarron: Metadata Attribute Collection ←

14:08:19 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#col_Metainformation

Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#col_Metainformation ←

14:09:36 <oedipus> SP: CC message to group or just to ODF inquirer?

Steven Pemberton: CC message to group or just to ODF inquirer? ←

14:10:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:10:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:10:09 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML2 Roadmap

7. XHTML2 Roadmap

14:10:12 <Steven> I just messaged the guy

Steven Pemberton: I just messaged the guy ←

14:10:16 <Steven> since he sent it to me only

Steven Pemberton: since he sent it to me only ←

14:10:40 <oedipus> SP: all our ducks are in a row

Steven Pemberton: all our ducks are in a row ←

14:11:35 <oedipus> SM: at last f2f we agreed that i was to rip out all sections duplicating content of other specs, then refer to them and then be done

Shane McCarron: at last f2f we agreed that i was to rip out all sections duplicating content of other specs, then refer to them and then be done ←

14:11:51 <oedipus> SM: then thought bad idead beacuse refer to attributes that aren't defined in spec

Shane McCarron: then thought bad idead beacuse refer to attributes that aren't defined in spec ←

14:12:03 <oedipus> SM: have to include placeholders in spec

Shane McCarron: have to include placeholders in spec ←

14:12:10 <oedipus> SM: told me to rip that all out

Shane McCarron: told me to rip that all out ←

14:12:29 <oedipus> SP: if go to Forms section, tells me what i need to know

Steven Pemberton: if go to Forms section, tells me what i need to know ←

14:12:42 <oedipus> SM: thought i was supposed to take that out

Shane McCarron: thought i was supposed to take that out ←

14:13:09 <oedipus> RM: pointer saying there is this module and the module is elsewhere; summary in XHTML2 or statement "here is module, here is pointer"

Roland Merrick: pointer saying there is this module and the module is elsewhere; summary in XHTML2 or statement "here is module, here is pointer" ←

14:13:19 <oedipus> SM: like that tact

Shane McCarron: like that tact ←

14:14:10 <ShaneM> XHTMLMIME is updated http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081024/

Shane McCarron: XHTMLMIME is updated http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20081024/ ←

14:14:12 <oedipus> RM: a module such as XML Events and XML Handlers are for incorporation into 1.3 if wanted and XHTML2 if wanted -- is that true?

Roland Merrick: a module such as XML Events and XML Handlers are for incorporation into 1.3 if wanted and XHTML2 if wanted -- is that true? ←

14:14:39 <oedipus> RM: like to think it is true, but may never be true statement depending on what happens with XHTML2

Roland Merrick: like to think it is true, but may never be true statement depending on what happens with XHTML2 ←

14:14:59 <oedipus> RM: developing XML Events 2 reusable in both existing m12n scheme and XHTML2

Roland Merrick: developing XML Events 2 reusable in both existing m12n scheme and XHTML2 ←

14:15:11 <oedipus> SP: yes, for both, planning on importing events 2

Steven Pemberton: yes, for both, XForms is planning on importing events 2 ←

14:15:29 <oedipus> RM: nothing more in XHTML2 than incorporates XML Events 2 and XHML Handlers 2

Roland Merrick: nothing more in XHTML2 than incorporates XML Events 2 and XHML Handlers 2 ←

14:15:35 <Steven> s/planning/XForms is planning/

14:16:07 <oedipus> RM: Access, Role, etc. only in XHTML2 by reference

Roland Merrick: Access, Role, etc. only in XHTML2 by reference ←

14:16:09 <oedipus> SM: ok

Shane McCarron: ok ←

14:17:53 <oedipus> SM: dependent on modules - long pole in tent Access or Events 2

Shane McCarron: dependent on modules - long pole in tent Access or Events 2 ←

14:18:09 <oedipus> RM: implementations for XHTML2 will be needed, too

Roland Merrick: implementations for XHTML2 will be needed, too ←

14:18:40 <oedipus> RM: Script module in there, too - pull that into XHTML2 and add @implements

Roland Merrick: Script module in there, too - pull that into XHTML2 and add @implements ←

14:18:47 <oedipus> SP: issue new WD next month?

Steven Pemberton: issue new WD next month? ←

14:18:57 <oedipus> RM: before christmas moritorium

Roland Merrick: before christmas moritorium ←

14:19:16 <oedipus> SP: relationship to referenced documents

Steven Pemberton: relationship to referenced documents ←

14:19:20 <oedipus> RM: in LC

Roland Merrick: in LC ←

14:19:32 <oedipus> SP: early next year for LC would be good target

Steven Pemberton: early next year for LC would be good target ←

14:19:52 <oedipus> TOPIC: Next Face2Face

8. Next Face2Face

14:19:55 <oedipus> SP: when

Steven Pemberton: when ←

14:20:03 <oedipus> RM: february

Roland Merrick: february ←

14:20:15 <oedipus> ok

ok ←

14:22:13 <oedipus> SP: pretty far advanced - things don't have implementations for in XHTML2 (frames replacement stuff) and @src and @href everywhere; alessio helping on all those fronts

Steven Pemberton: pretty far advanced - things don't have implementations for in XHTML2 (frames replacement stuff) and @src and @href everywhere; alessio helping on all those fronts ←

14:22:27 <oedipus> SP: implementation of features demonstration in good shape

Steven Pemberton: implementation of features demonstration in good shape ←

14:22:44 <oedipus> SM: what version of XForms including?

Shane McCarron: what version of XForms including? ←

14:22:52 <oedipus> SP: anticipating XForms 1.1

Steven Pemberton: anticipating XForms 1.1 ←

14:23:00 <oedipus> SM: XML Events 2, too?

Shane McCarron: XML Events 2, too? ←

14:23:02 <oedipus> SP:yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

14:23:12 <oedipus> SM: can't imagine get too far without test suite

Shane McCarron: can't imagine get too far without test suite ←

14:23:19 <alessio> surely gregory

Alessio Cartocci: surely gregory ←

14:23:25 <oedipus> SP: once go to LC, major work will be producing test suite

Steven Pemberton: once go to LC, major work will be producing test suite ←

14:23:59 <oedipus> SM: had one of my guys take existing XHTML test suite and start readying for change to XHTML2 - should i have him continue?

Shane McCarron: had one of my guys take existing XHTML test suite and start readying for change to XHTML2 - should i have him continue? ←

14:24:01 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

14:24:16 <oedipus> SM: if can take advantage of that work will help us along

Shane McCarron: if can take advantage of that work will help us along ←

14:24:28 <oedipus> SP: anything else?

Steven Pemberton: anything else? ←

14:25:07 <oedipus> RM: talked about docs individually - resolved to go to CR and PER on docs;

Roland Merrick: talked about docs individually - resolved to go to CR and PER on docs; ←

14:25:25 <oedipus> RM: XHTML2 separate into separate specs at later date?

Roland Merrick: XHTML2 separate into separate specs at later date? ←

14:25:49 <oedipus> MOVE TO ADJOURN

MOVE TO ADJOURN ←

14:26:17 <oedipus> RM: bangs gavel - MEETING ADJOURNED

Roland Merrick: bangs gavel - MEETING ADJOURNED ←

14:26:33 <oedipus> SM: meet next wednesday?

Shane McCarron: meet next wednesday? ←

14:26:51 <oedipus> SP: call starts while still at airport

Steven Pemberton: call starts while still at airport ←

14:27:03 <oedipus> GJR: US Daylight savings time ends this weekend

Gregory Rosmaita: US Daylight savings time ends this weekend ←

14:27:27 <oedipus> SM: if have any cycles to work on transition requests for PERs i probably have the time

Shane McCarron: if have any cycles to work on transition requests for PERs i probably have the time ←

14:28:50 <oedipus> SP: long ago, we said to anne van kestren that we would change IDREF on imagemaps when re-issued 1.1

Steven Pemberton: long ago, we said to anne van kestren that we would change IDREF on imagemaps when re-issued 1.1 ←

14:29:05 <oedipus> SP: should make sure we should do that

Steven Pemberton: should make sure we should do that ←

14:29:13 <oedipus> SM: where 1.2 or 2?

Shane McCarron: where 1.2 or 2? ←

14:29:16 <oedipus> RM: 1.2

Roland Merrick: 1.2 ←

14:29:38 <oedipus> SM: override def of module for m12n - not update m12n because then break all other languages

Shane McCarron: override def of module for m12n - not update m12n because then break all other languages ←

14:29:45 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2

ACTION: Shane add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2 ←

14:29:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-31].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-16 - Add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-31]. ←

14:29:59 <oedipus> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED ←

14:30:25 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

14:30:26 <Zakim> -oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: -oedipus ←

14:30:26 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended ←

14:30:28 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Executive_3, oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ShaneM, Executive_3, oedipus ←

14:30:37 <oedipus> zakim, please part

zakim, please part ←

14:30:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:30:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:32:38 <Steven> thanks ALessio

Steven Pemberton: thanks ALessio ←

14:32:53 <oedipus> pressent- oedipus

pressent- oedipus ←

14:33:00 <oedipus> present+ Gregory_Rosmaita

present+ Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:33:02 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:33:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:33:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part

rrsagent, please part ←

14:33:59 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←

14:33:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2 [1]

ACTION: Shane add the IDREF change for imagemap to XHTML 1.2 [1] ←

14:33:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T14-29-45

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-xhtml-irc#T14-29-45 ←

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