There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.
It may be helpful to
13:43:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc ←
13:43:18 <oedipus> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html
13:43:18 <oedipus> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes
13:43:25 <oedipus> Chair: Roland
13:43:30 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
13:43:31 <rmerric> rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html
Roland Merrick: rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html ←
13:43:37 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
13:43:45 <rmerric> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0017.html
13:43:58 <rmerric> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2 ←
13:43:58 <Zakim> ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
13:44:07 <oedipus> rrsagent, create minutes
rrsagent, create minutes ←
13:44:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:44:16 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes world-visible
rrsagent, make minutes world-visible ←
13:44:16 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', oedipus. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', oedipus. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
13:44:30 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
13:44:32 <rmerric> rrsagent, make minutes public
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes public ←
13:44:32 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', rmerric. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', rmerric. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
13:44:36 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
13:44:49 <rmerric> rrsagent, make log public
Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public ←
13:45:16 <Roland> Regrets: Alessio
13:45:40 <oedipus> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:45:48 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:45:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:46:04 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
13:47:06 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
13:47:23 <Tina> I am having phone trouble. Will join if I can.
Tina Holmboe: I am having phone trouble. Will join if I can. ←
13:47:49 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
13:47:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM ←
13:47:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ShaneM, oedipus, Tina, Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ShaneM, oedipus, Tina, Roland ←
13:48:40 <oedipus> TOPIC: Agenda Review & New Business/Announcements
13:48:49 <Zakim> + +04670855aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +04670855aaaa ←
13:49:03 <oedipus> zakim, aaaa is Tina
zakim, aaaa is Tina ←
13:49:03 <Zakim> +Tina; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina; got it ←
13:49:17 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
13:49:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, Tina ←
13:49:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ShaneM, oedipus, Tina, Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ShaneM, oedipus, Tina, Roland ←
13:50:52 <oedipus> TP Registration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0000.html
TP Registration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0000.html ←
13:51:22 <oedipus> RM: TPAC - who has registered
Roland Merrick: TPAC - who has registered ←
13:51:35 <oedipus> GJR: will probably not be able to make it due to health reasons
Gregory Rosmaita: will probably not be able to make it due to health reasons ←
13:51:49 <oedipus> SM: i have registered
Roland Merrick: i have registered ←
13:51:50 <ShaneM> I have not registered, and will not be attending
Shane McCarron: I have not registered, and will not be attending ←
13:51:54 <oedipus> TH: i have not
Tina Holmboe: i have not ←
13:52:04 <oedipus> s/SM/RM
13:52:09 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:52:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
13:52:27 <oedipus> RM: remote participation
Roland Merrick: remote participation ←
13:52:32 <oedipus> GJR: probably
Gregory Rosmaita: probably ←
13:52:33 <ShaneM> I will be able to join via phone all days
Shane McCarron: I will be able to join via phone all days ←
13:52:58 <oedipus> TH: should be able to attend by phone - intend to join via phone all days
Tina Holmboe: should be able to attend by phone - intend to join via phone all days ←
13:53:05 <oedipus> GJR: all days and times possible
Gregory Rosmaita: all days and times possible ←
13:53:20 <oedipus> RM: SP requested speaker phone, so we can do calls
Roland Merrick: SP requested speaker phone, so we can do calls ←
13:53:31 <oedipus> GJR: can always do the skype thing as we did in italy
Gregory Rosmaita: can always do the skype thing as we did in italy ←
13:53:39 <oedipus> RM: not sure about alessio or mark
Roland Merrick: not sure about alessio or mark ←
13:53:57 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
13:53:57 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
13:53:59 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
13:54:04 <Steven> Sorry, lost track of time
Steven Pemberton: Sorry, lost track of time ←
13:54:49 <oedipus> SP: since turnout will be low, requested telecon phone
Steven Pemberton: since turnout will be low, requested telecon phone ←
13:55:28 <oedipus> SP: Roland, Mark, Steven - yes; Alessio - maybe; GJR: more unlikely than probable
Steven Pemberton: Roland, Mark, Steven - yes; Alessio - maybe; GJR: more unlikely than probable ←
13:55:44 <oedipus> SP: low attendence, so try to do as last time, via teleconferencing
Steven Pemberton: low attendence, so try to do as last time, via teleconferencing ←
13:55:53 <oedipus> TOPIC: Actions
13:56:10 <oedipus> RM: have a lot that hang around -- would like to use tracker to clean up outdated and overdue issues
Roland Merrick: have a lot that hang around -- would like to use tracker to clean up outdated and overdue issues ←
13:56:24 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/ ←
13:56:51 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel ←
13:56:52 <trackbot> If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group)
Trackbot IRC Bot: If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group) ←
13:58:01 <oedipus> zakim, meeting?
zakim, meeting? ←
13:58:01 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, oedipus.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, oedipus. ←
13:58:36 <Steven> zakim, list
Steven Pemberton: zakim, list ←
13:58:36 <Zakim> I see Team_W3M()8:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, TAG_f2f()10:00AM active
Zakim IRC Bot: I see Team_W3M()8:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, TAG_f2f()10:00AM active ←
13:58:37 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM ←
13:58:53 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc ←
13:59:15 <oedipus> TOPIC: Tina's Primer
13:59:21 <oedipus> http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/xhtml.html
http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/xhtml.html ←
13:59:26 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:59:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←
13:59:35 <oedipus> TH: won't publish new draft until have all new info folded in
Tina Holmboe: won't publish new draft until have all new info folded in ←
13:59:46 <oedipus> RM: working on media type heuristics?
Roland Merrick: working on media type heuristics? ←
13:59:51 <Steven> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes
13:59:59 <oedipus> TH: only piece waiting for from XHTML WG
Tina Holmboe: only piece waiting for from XHTML WG ←
14:00:12 <oedipus> SP: didn't give myself an action to do that
Steven Pemberton: didn't give myself an action to do that ←
14:00:18 <oedipus> ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina
ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina ←
14:00:18 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel ←
14:01:00 <oedipus> trackbot, associate this channhel with #xhtml
trackbot, associate this channhel with #xhtml ←
14:01:00 <trackbot> Sorry, oedipus, I don't understand 'trackbot, associate this channhel with #xhtml'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, oedipus, I don't understand 'trackbot, associate this channhel with #xhtml'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help ←
14:01:19 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12n Request
14:01:27 <oedipus> SP: should be done next week
Steven Pemberton: should be done next week ←
14:01:30 <oedipus> RM: before or after call?
Roland Merrick: before or after call? ←
14:01:44 <oedipus> SP: send update a.s.a.p - team calls cancelled last 2 weeks
Steven Pemberton: send update a.s.a.p - team calls cancelled last 2 weeks ←
14:02:12 <oedipus> trackbot, associate this channhel with IA_XHTML2()9:45AM
trackbot, associate this channhel with IA_XHTML2()9:45AM ←
14:02:12 <trackbot> Sorry, oedipus, I don't understand 'trackbot, associate this channhel with IA_XHTML2()9:45AM'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, oedipus, I don't understand 'trackbot, associate this channhel with IA_XHTML2()9:45AM'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help ←
14:02:22 <oedipus> RM: Shane - review requests?
Roland Merrick: Shane - review requests? ←
14:02:28 <oedipus> SM: Role is fine with me
Shane McCarron: Role is fine with me ←
14:02:34 <oedipus> TOPIC: Role Module
14:03:02 <oedipus> SP: resolved to go transition, but then received new comments; no revised version of spec since comments came in
Steven Pemberton: resolved to go transition, but then received new comments; no revised version of spec since comments came in ←
14:03:24 <oedipus> SM: resolved not to request CR until CURIE ready to go to CR, and then needed to wait for TAG to give us comments on CURIE
Shane McCarron: resolved not to request CR until CURIE ready to go to CR, and then needed to wait for TAG to give us comments on CURIE ←
14:03:35 <oedipus> SM: don't remember comments on Role
Shane McCarron: don't remember comments on Role ←
14:04:16 <oedipus> RM: link to comments?
Roland Merrick: link to comments? ←
14:04:33 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0009.html
Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0009.html ←
14:04:43 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0009.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JulSep/0009.html ←
14:05:07 <oedipus> references: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/ draft
Scribe problem: the name 'references' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown references: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/ draft ←
14:05:14 <oedipus> RM: work through these now?
Roland Merrick: work through these now? ←
14:05:19 <oedipus> SM: haven't read yet
Shane McCarron: haven't read yet ←
14:05:23 <oedipus> GJR: me neither
Gregory Rosmaita: me neither ←
14:05:33 <oedipus> RM: walk through them quickly
Roland Merrick: walk through them quickly ←
14:06:05 <oedipus> (1) First, we congratulate the XHTML Working Group for providing a useful and clear namespace document for the namespace
(1) First, we congratulate the XHTML Working Group for providing a useful and clear namespace document for the namespace ←
14:06:05 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/ ←
14:06:05 <oedipus> We wish more groups responsible for namespace did so well by the users of their namespaces.
We wish more groups responsible for namespace did so well by the users of their namespaces. ←
14:06:30 <oedipus> RM: no action needed
Roland Merrick: no action needed ←
14:06:47 <oedipus> (2) That said, we think the namespace document could be improved by the addition of some more information. A document date would be helpful, and the identity of those responsible for the text of the document, and for the namespace, could be stated more explicitly. (From the fact that "The XHTML specifications are developed by the W3C XHTML 2 Working Group as part of the W3C HTML Activity", it may be thought to follow that it is the XHTML 2 Working Group whic
(2) That said, we think the namespace document could be improved by the addition of some more information. A document date would be helpful, and the identity of those responsible for the text of the document, and for the namespace, could be stated more explicitly. (From the fact that "The XHTML specifications are developed by the W3C XHTML 2 Working Group as part of the W3C HTML Activity", it may be thought to follow that it is the XHTML 2 Working Group whic ←
14:07:20 <oedipus> SM: vocab is NOT A NAMESPACE DOCUMENT!!!
Shane McCarron: vocab is NOT A NAMESPACE DOCUMENT!!! ←
14:07:27 <oedipus> SP: that's what people call it
Steven Pemberton: that's what people call it ←
14:07:44 <oedipus> SM: but not a namespace URI, but vocab URI - namespaces declare elements and attributes
Shane McCarron: but not a namespace URI, but vocab URI - namespaces declare elements and attributes ←
14:07:53 <oedipus> SM: cultural change which should start here
Shane McCarron: cultural change which should start here ←
14:07:58 <oedipus> SM: why we never call it a namespace
Shane McCarron: why we never call it a namespace ←
14:08:10 <oedipus> SP: reply should be "please to not consider as a namepace"
Steven Pemberton: reply should be "please to not consider as a namepace" ←
14:08:19 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/ ←
14:08:20 <oedipus> RM: thought talking about vocab
Roland Merrick: thought talking about vocab ←
14:08:20 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/ ←
14:08:20 <Steven> It calls itself a namesapce
Steven Pemberton: It calls itself a namesapce ←
14:08:23 <oedipus> SM: we are
Shane McCarron: we are ←
14:08:35 <oedipus> RM: part of vocab doc is "namespace"
Roland Merrick: part of vocab doc is "namespace" ←
14:08:39 <oedipus> RM: change title?
Roland Merrick: change title? ←
14:08:49 <oedipus> SP: will do right now once we agree what to substitute
Steven Pemberton: will do right now once we agree what to substitute ←
14:09:36 <oedipus> first 3 paragraphs of vocab doc:
first 3 paragraphs of vocab doc: ←
14:09:36 <oedipus> This is a vocabulary collection utilized by XHTML Family modules and document types using XHTML Modularization, including XHTML Role and XHTML + RDFa as defined in rdfa-syntax.
This is a vocabulary collection utilized by XHTML Family modules and document types using XHTML Modularization, including XHTML Role and XHTML + RDFa as defined in rdfa-syntax. ←
14:09:36 <oedipus> The XHTML specifications are developed by the W3C XHTML 2 Working Group as part of the W3C HTML Activity.
The XHTML specifications are developed by the W3C XHTML 2 Working Group as part of the W3C HTML Activity. ←
14:09:36 <oedipus> For more information about XML, please refer to the Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 specification. For more information about XML namespaces, please refer to the Namespaces in XML specification.
For more information about XML, please refer to the Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 specification. For more information about XML namespaces, please refer to the Namespaces in XML specification. ←
14:10:06 <oedipus> SM: agree that vocab def document could be better, so need to fix
Shane McCarron: agree that vocab def document could be better, so need to fix ←
14:10:19 <oedipus> RM: clarify vocabulary versus namespace
Roland Merrick: clarify vocabulary versus namespace ←
14:10:31 <oedipus> SM: vocabulary not in TR space
Shane McCarron: vocabulary not in TR space ←
14:10:45 <oedipus> SM: can change vocab when needed
Shane McCarron: can change vocab when needed ←
14:10:56 <oedipus> SP: because not namespace, don't have to follow rules on namespaces
Steven Pemberton: because not namespace, don't have to follow rules on namespaces ←
14:11:10 <oedipus> RM: would be very helpful to state how to manage this type of resource
Roland Merrick: would be very helpful to state how to manage this type of resource ←
14:11:21 <oedipus> RM: understanding what will happen with it
Roland Merrick: understanding what will happen with it ←
14:11:33 <oedipus> SM: elements that are in it won't be removed, but others will be added over time
Shane McCarron: elements that are in it won't be removed, but others will be added over time ←
14:11:36 <oedipus> RM: reasonable
Roland Merrick: reasonable ←
14:11:59 <oedipus> RM: evolve policy - nothing will be removed, things will be defined, refined and added
Roland Merrick: evolve policy - nothing will be removed, things will be defined, refined and added ←
14:12:39 <oedipus> RESOLVED: policy for vocab document: nothing will be removed; things contained may be more clearly defined/refined, and others added
RESOLVED: policy for vocab document: nothing will be removed; things contained may be more clearly defined/refined, and others added ←
14:13:01 <oedipus> SM: point 4 - don't like CURIEs - could be done with QNames
Shane McCarron: point 4 - don't like CURIEs - could be done with QNames ←
14:13:29 <oedipus> SM: 2 points to make: QNames don't belong in attributes and QNames do not map to URIs but URIs and values; we need URIs
Shane McCarron: 2 points to make: QNames don't belong in attributes and QNames do not map to URIs but URIs and values; we need URIs ←
14:13:33 <oedipus> RM: sounds reasonable
Roland Merrick: sounds reasonable ←
14:13:36 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1
Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←
14:14:21 <oedipus> (5) If it's desired to provide the better validation and easier access to the namespace binding which would be provided by using the xsd:QName type, but nevertheless not to rule out the use of CURIEs which are not QNames, then we suggest the best way to define the role attribute right now would be to define (1) a union of QName and CURIE (in that order), and (2) a list of values from that union, and to make the latter the type of the role attribute. That wou
(5) If it's desired to provide the better validation and easier access to the namespace binding which would be provided by using the xsd:QName type, but nevertheless not to rule out the use of CURIEs which are not QNames, then we suggest the best way to define the role attribute right now would be to define (1) a union of QName and CURIE (in that order), and (2) a list of values from that union, and to make the latter the type of the role attribute. That wou ←
14:14:38 <oedipus> SM: talking about CURIEs - are they addressing the prefix?
Shane McCarron: talking about CURIEs - are they addressing the prefix? ←
14:15:08 <oedipus> SM: we provided XSD datatype for CURIE which is similar to QNames and should resolve their issues - point them at where datatype defined and how used by role
Shane McCarron: we provided XSD datatype for CURIE which is similar to QNames and should resolve their issues - point them at where datatype defined and how used by role ←
14:15:44 <oedipus> scribe's note: comments refer to: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/
scribe's note: comments refer to: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/ ←
14:16:03 <oedipus> SM: probably wasn't updated against latest M12n draft at time of review
Shane McCarron: probably wasn't updated against latest M12n draft at time of review ←
14:16:21 <oedipus> SM: love to have them to review, so point them to latest ED
Shane McCarron: love to have them to review, so point them to latest ED ←
14:16:47 <oedipus> RM: does def of role attribute depends on CURIE i think is question
Roland Merrick: does def of role attribute depends on CURIE i think is question ←
14:16:59 <oedipus> SM: comment 7 - conflation problem again
Shane McCarron: comment 7 - conflation problem again ←
14:17:35 <oedipus> SM: thinking about it in context of QNames, and we don't address QNames - comments relevant to QNames, not CURIEs
Shane McCarron: thinking about it in context of QNames, and we don't address QNames - comments relevant to QNames, not CURIEs ←
14:18:00 <oedipus> RM: answer to 7 - these are CURIEs and not QNames and the rules are different
Roland Merrick: answer to 7 - these are CURIEs and not QNames and the rules are different ←
14:18:03 <oedipus> TH: plus 1
Tina Holmboe: plus 1 ←
14:18:06 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1
Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←
14:18:23 <oedipus> SM: if read points 8 and 9 - treating as QNames, but they are NOT QNames
Shane McCarron: if read points 8 and 9 - treating as QNames, but they are NOT QNames ←
14:18:55 <oedipus> SP: reply should state sorry for any misunderstanding on this point, but these things aren't namespaces and then go through points to debunk comments
Steven Pemberton: reply should state sorry for any misunderstanding on this point, but these things aren't namespaces and then go through points to debunk comments ←
14:19:04 <oedipus> TH: reviewed a in context of b
Tina Holmboe: reviewed a in context of b ←
14:19:33 <oedipus> SM: devil's advocate: when look at theses things, many people think/see QNames - can't do anything about that but keep hammering on difference
Shane McCarron: devil's advocate: when look at theses things, many people think/see QNames - can't do anything about that but keep hammering on difference ←
14:19:40 <oedipus> RM: problem is keying in on QNames
Roland Merrick: problem is keying in on QNames ←
14:20:12 <oedipus> SM: datatype is not XSD QName - no processor should be exposing attributes --
Shane McCarron: datatype is not XSD QName - no processor should be exposing attributes -- ←
14:20:14 <oedipus> RM: all just strings, not QNames
Roland Merrick: all just strings, not QNames ←
14:20:44 <oedipus> SP: reviewed spec for "namespace" in role document EXCEPT for references section itself
Steven Pemberton: reviewed spec for "namespace" in role document EXCEPT for references section itself ←
14:20:56 <oedipus> SM: good catch
Shane McCarron: good catch ←
14:21:18 <oedipus> SP: in clear - for time being - for everything they say due to misinterpretation
Steven Pemberton: in clear - for time being - for everything they say due to misinterpretation ←
14:22:13 <oedipus> SM: if not vocabulary namespace what to call it?
Shane McCarron: if not vocabulary namespace what to call it? ←
14:22:18 <oedipus> SP: just "vocabulary"
Steven Pemberton: just "vocabulary" ←
14:22:46 <oedipus> RM: does it need a qualifier? vocabularies are often defined in element and attribute names and these are about values - more the RDF ontology
Roland Merrick: does it need a qualifier? vocabularies are often defined in element and attribute names and these are about values - more the RDF ontology ←
14:23:05 <oedipus> RM: grouping of related RDF concepts that has a label associated with it
Roland Merrick: grouping of related RDF concepts that has a label associated with it ←
14:23:11 <oedipus> SM: "taxonomy"
Shane McCarron: "taxonomy" ←
14:23:20 <oedipus> RM: XML Vocabularies will be quite different
Roland Merrick: XML Vocabularies will be quite different ←
14:23:28 <oedipus> SM: good point
Shane McCarron: good point ←
14:23:39 <oedipus> RM: people think of language definition as vocabulary
Roland Merrick: people think of language definition as vocabulary ←
14:24:10 <oedipus> SM: XML Vocabulary could be misleading, but use "vocabulary" throughout RDFa
Shane McCarron: XML Vocabulary could be misleading, but use "vocabulary" throughout RDFa ←
14:24:22 <oedipus> RM: in Introduction: "set of values with certain semantics..."
Roland Merrick: in Introduction: "set of values with certain semantics..." ←
14:24:37 <oedipus> SM: agree - intro needs update
Shane McCarron: agree - intro needs update ←
14:24:59 <oedipus> SM: how to annotate vocab document in RDF to show what is rel and what is ref
Shane McCarron: how to annotate vocab document in RDF to show what is rel and what is ref ←
14:25:10 <oedipus> SM: if just big bag of terms, what is relevant where?
Shane McCarron: if just big bag of terms, what is relevant where? ←
14:25:22 <oedipus> SP: sections in vocab itself, but should mechanize?
Steven Pemberton: sections in vocab itself, but should mechanize? ←
14:25:37 <oedipus> SM: document is RDFa annotated, but don't know how to categorize stuff
Shane McCarron: document is RDFa annotated, but don't know how to categorize stuff ←
14:25:43 <oedipus> SP: Role DTD
Steven Pemberton: Role DTD ←
14:25:49 <oedipus> RM: ontology does create structure
Roland Merrick: ontology does create structure ←
14:25:57 <oedipus> SM: can map ontology into RDFa
Shane McCarron: can map ontology into RDFa ←
14:26:16 <oedipus> SP: doctype says "Transitional"
Steven Pemberton: doctype says "Transitional" ←
14:27:26 <oedipus> SM: Appendix C of Role Module - example RDF Role ontology - could lift something from that
Shane McCarron: Appendix C of Role Module - example RDF Role ontology - could lift something from that ←
14:27:45 <oedipus> trackbot, status?
trackbot, status? ←
14:27:45 <trackbot> This channel is not configured
Trackbot IRC Bot: This channel is not configured ←
14:28:02 <oedipus> RM: why would anyone be interested in what is in section C?
Roland Merrick: why would anyone be interested in what is in appendix C? ←
14:28:15 <oedipus> SM: wanted to include best practices document to provide a role vocabulary
Shane McCarron: wanted to include best practices document to provide a role vocabulary ←
14:28:29 <oedipus> RM: defining how to create additional roles, right?
Roland Merrick: defining how to create additional roles, right? ←
14:28:30 <oedipus> SM: yes
Shane McCarron: yes ←
14:28:34 <oedipus> RM: but we didn't
Roland Merrick: but we didn't ←
14:28:39 <oedipus> SM: RDFa is mapped to this
Shane McCarron: RDFa is mapped to this ←
14:28:46 <oedipus> SM: if not, could be
Shane McCarron: if not, could be ←
14:29:18 <oedipus> SP: in example, values of rdf:resource is using a CURIE
Steven Pemberton: in example, values of rdf:resource is using a CURIE ←
14:29:30 <Steven> rdfs:subClassOf rdf:resource="wairole:region"
Scribe problem: the name 'rdfs' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown rdfs: subClassOf rdf:resource="wairole:region" [ Scribe Assist by Steven Pemberton ] ←
14:29:35 <oedipus> s/section C/appendix C
14:29:55 <oedipus> SM: look at top - DTD that defines entities, but doesn't work because don't get expanded
Shane McCarron: look at top - DTD that defines entities, but doesn't work because don't get expanded ←
14:30:08 <oedipus> SP: should be &role
Steven Pemberton: should be &role ←
14:30:19 <oedipus> SM: DTD should control processing
Shane McCarron: DTD should control processing ←
14:30:42 <oedipus> SM: look at first RDF element - declares namespace, using CURIEs
Shane McCarron: look at first RDF element - declares namespace, using CURIEs ←
14:31:10 <oedipus> RM: perhaps should get rid of it
Roland Merrick: perhaps should get rid of it ←
14:31:55 <oedipus> GJR: used to be similar extention example in ARIA -- have to check latest ED
Gregory Rosmaita: used to be similar extention example in ARIA -- have to check latest ED ←
14:32:03 <Steven> Should be rdf:resource="&wairole;region"etc
Steven Pemberton: Should be rdf:resource="&wairole;region" etc ←
14:32:12 <Steven> s/etc/ etc/
14:32:26 <oedipus> SM: Roland, you think we should remove example
Shane McCarron: Roland, you think we should remove example ←
14:32:30 <oedipus> SM: objections?
Shane McCarron: objections? ←
14:32:32 <oedipus> TH: no
Tina Holmboe: no ←
14:32:35 <oedipus> RM: no
Roland Merrick: no ←
14:32:38 <oedipus> SP: no
Steven Pemberton: no ←
14:32:39 <oedipus> GJR: no
Gregory Rosmaita: no ←
14:32:56 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#roles
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#roles ←
14:33:14 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#host_general
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#host_general ←
14:33:19 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#host_general_role
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#host_general_role ←
14:33:43 <oedipus> SM: delete sentence and ARIA role definitions, because already in our vocab
Shane McCarron: delete sentence and ARIA role definitions, because already in our vocab ←
14:33:56 <oedipus> GJR: wearing PF hat have no objection to that
Gregory Rosmaita: wearing PF hat have no objection to that ←
14:34:06 <oedipus> SM: removing Appendix C
Shane McCarron: removing Appendix C ←
14:34:19 <oedipus> RM: if in, should be working version
Roland Merrick: if in, should be working version ←
14:34:26 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#m12n
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#m12n ←
14:34:41 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#a_impl_roles
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#a_impl_roles ←
14:35:08 <oedipus> GJR: think that it is covered by ARIA still
Gregory Rosmaita: think that it is covered by ARIA still ←
14:35:32 <oedipus> RM: dealt with all issues relating to role?
Roland Merrick: dealt with all issues relating to role? ←
14:35:48 <oedipus> SP: another CURIE review has come in
Steven Pemberton: another CURIE review has come in ←
14:35:52 <oedipus> SM: need to add to tracker
Shane McCarron: need to add to tracker ←
14:36:16 <oedipus> RM: response to comments from XML CG -- Shane?
Roland Merrick: response to comments from XML CG -- Shane? ←
14:36:57 <oedipus> ACTION: Shane - reply to XML CG comments after review by group on list
ACTION: Shane - reply to XML CG comments after review by group on list ←
14:36:57 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel ←
14:37:06 <oedipus> SM: Role Vocabularies in Introduction?
Shane McCarron: Role Vocabularies in Introduction? ←
14:37:31 <oedipus> RM: what vocabulary is about - taxonomy, etc. something that sets the tone - marking as unfamiliar territory
Roland Merrick: what vocabulary is about - taxonomy, etc. something that sets the tone - marking as unfamiliar territory ←
14:37:41 <oedipus> SM: place to put that is paragraph 1 of section 3
Shane McCarron: place to put that is paragraph 1 of section 3 ←
14:37:42 <oedipus> RM: ok
Roland Merrick: ok ←
14:38:02 <oedipus> RM: role about attribute - proper place to talk about defined values
Roland Merrick: role about attribute - proper place to talk about defined values ←
14:38:49 <oedipus> SP: should we get someone from RDFa TF to provide us with guidance so vocab document is also an OWL schema/taxonomy - extract same triples as if OWL
Steven Pemberton: should we get someone from RDFa TF to provide us with guidance so vocab document is also an OWL schema/taxonomy - extract same triples as if OWL ←
14:38:57 <oedipus> SP: RDF Schemas, as well
Steven Pemberton: RDF Schemas, as well ←
14:39:07 <oedipus> RM: RDF Schema worthwhile investigating
Roland Merrick: RDF Schema worthwhile investigating ←
14:39:35 <oedipus> SM: had RDFa TF review this document, and they blessed it; question is how to scope values for machine processor knows what is associated with what
Shane McCarron: had RDFa TF review this document, and they blessed it; question is how to scope values for machine processor knows what is associated with what ←
14:39:47 <oedipus> SM: [has a brainstorm]
Shane McCarron: [has a brainstorm] ←
14:40:06 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 1.2
14:40:20 <ShaneM> how about the term "XHTML Terminology Vocabulary"
Shane McCarron: how about the term "XHTML Terminology Vocabulary" ←
14:40:27 <oedipus> RM: discussed at last f2f -- SP has action item; would be useful to have for TPAC F2F
Roland Merrick: discussed at last f2f -- SP has action item; would be useful to have for TPAC F2F ←
14:40:31 <oedipus> SP: include XForms?
Steven Pemberton: include XForms? ←
14:40:33 <oedipus> SM: no
Shane McCarron: no ←
14:40:47 <Steven> RDFa/XHTML 1.1/Access/Role
Steven Pemberton: RDFa/XHTML 1.1/Access/Role ←
14:41:01 <oedipus> RM: 1.1 plus extra bits (Role, CURIE, Access, RDFa)
Roland Merrick: 1.1 plus extra bits (Role, CURIE, Access, RDFa) ←
14:41:08 <oedipus> SP: no XML Events and no XForms
Steven Pemberton: no XML Events and no XForms ←
14:41:30 <oedipus> SP: diff between 1.2 and 2.0 is new structuring stuff, general attributes (href and src) and XML Events and XForms
Steven Pemberton: diff between 1.2 and 2.0 is new structuring stuff, general attributes (href and src) and XML Events and XForms ←
14:41:44 <oedipus> RM: @target discussion still not resolved
Roland Merrick: @target discussion still not resolved ←
14:41:57 <oedipus> GJR: same for @lang - still no assistive tech that cues off of xml:lang
Gregory Rosmaita: same for @lang - still no assistive tech that cues off of xml:lang ←
14:42:12 <oedipus> RM: extracting from XHTML2 putting into 1.2
Roland Merrick: extracting from XHTML2 putting into 1.2 ←
14:42:37 <oedipus> TH: compromise: go along with @target if drop @role
Tina Holmboe: compromise: go along with @target if drop @role (sarcastic smirk) ←
14:42:46 <oedipus> RM: please make formal proposal
Roland Merrick: please make formal proposal ←
14:42:55 <oedipus> TH: accept role, will discuss target thing
Tina Holmboe: accept role, will discuss target thing ←
14:43:18 <oedipus> GJR: Tina, review last f2f minutes for @target discussion - think came close to what we needed
Gregory Rosmaita: Tina, review last f2f minutes for @target discussion - think came close to what we needed ←
14:44:20 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
14:44:21 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
14:44:22 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:44:22 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
14:44:26 <oedipus> ACTION: Tina - structure discussion on @target based on discussions at previous F2F
ACTION: Tina - structure discussion on @target based on discussions at previous F2F ←
14:44:26 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel ←
14:44:36 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:44:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:44:45 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:44:45 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
14:44:46 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, +04670855aaaa, Tina, Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, +04670855aaaa, Tina, Steven ←
14:44:46 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
14:44:52 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:44:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:45:09 <oedipus> present- +04670855aaa
present- +04670855aaa ←
14:45:13 <oedipus> present+ Tina
present+ Tina ←
14:45:16 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:45:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:46:36 <oedipus> s/if drop @role/if drop @role (sarcastic smirk)
14:46:46 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:46:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:47:19 <oedipus> present- +04670855aaaa
present- +04670855aaaa ←
14:47:23 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:47:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:48:22 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina [1]
ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina [1] ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-00-18
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-00-18 ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane - reply to XML CG comments after review by group on list [2]
ACTION: Shane - reply to XML CG comments after review by group on list [2] ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-36-57
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-36-57 ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tina - structure discussion on @target based on discussions at previous F2F [3]
ACTION: Tina - structure discussion on @target based on discussions at previous F2F [3] ←
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-44-26
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/24-xhtml-irc#T14-44-26 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe