Meeting Record

edit

XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 17 September 2008

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0014.html

Seen

Alessio Cartocci, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Tina Holmboe, Unknown chuckkh

Chair

Roland Merrick

Scribe

Steven Pemberton

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

TPAC
Tina's Primer
M12N status
Events

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

13:41:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-irc ←

13:41:52 <rmerric> Zakim, list

Roland Merrick: Zakim, list ←

13:41:52 <Zakim> I see WAI_(AGE TF)9:30AM active

Zakim IRC Bot: I see WAI_(AGE TF)9:30AM active ←

13:41:53 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM ←

13:42:26 <rmerric> zakim, this will be XHTML2

Roland Merrick: zakim, this will be XHTML2 ←

13:42:26 <Zakim> ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←

13:43:21 <rmerric> rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0014.html

Roland Merrick: rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0014.html ←

13:43:26 <Tina> I've not sorted any better headsets, so voice would be rather pointless for me.

Tina Holmboe: I've not sorted any better headsets, so voice would be rather pointless for me. ←

13:43:29 <rmerric> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0014.html

13:43:33 <chuckkh> hello

Scribe problem: the name 'chuckkh' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown chuckkh: hello ←

13:43:35 <alessio> hi all

Alessio Cartocci: hi all ←

13:43:48 <chuckkh> newbie questions ok here?

Unknown chuckkh: newbie questions ok here? ←

13:43:55 <Roland> Chair: Roland

13:44:19 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

13:44:30 <chuckkh> I've been trying to figure out how to replace frames, not just to separate content, but to have one part of a page not scroll with the rest

Unknown chuckkh: I've been trying to figure out how to replace frames, not just to separate content, but to have one part of a page not scroll with the rest ←

13:44:34 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←

13:44:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Roland ←

13:44:46 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public ←

13:44:57 <Tina> chuckkh: it may be that freenode's #web is a better place to ask such a question.

Unknown chuckkh: it may be that freenode's #web is a better place to ask such a question. [ Scribe Assist by Tina Holmboe ] ←

13:45:06 <chuckkh> alrighty, thanks Tina

Unknown chuckkh: alrighty, thanks Tina ←

13:45:15 <Tina> chuckkh: quite welcome.

Unknown chuckkh: quite welcome. [ Scribe Assist by Tina Holmboe ] ←

13:45:26 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←

13:45:33 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←

13:46:28 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

13:46:28 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

13:46:30 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

13:46:59 <Steven> rrsagent, here?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, here? ←

13:46:59 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-irc#T13-46-59

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-irc#T13-46-59 ←

13:48:00 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←

13:48:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Roland, Steven ←

13:48:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, alessio, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, ShaneM, Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Steven, alessio, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, ShaneM, Tina ←

13:49:19 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←

13:49:37 <alessio> zakim, ??P3 is Alessio

Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P3 is Alessio ←

13:49:37 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←

13:50:39 <Zakim> +Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina ←

13:50:45 <Tina> Zakim, mue me

Tina Holmboe: Zakim, mue me ←

13:50:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mue me', Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'mue me', Tina ←

13:50:48 <Tina> Zakim, mute me

Tina Holmboe: Zakim, mute me ←

13:50:48 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Tina should now be muted ←

13:51:02 <Tina> I'm listening in, but muted so that I don't "echo"

Tina Holmboe: I'm listening in, but muted so that I don't "echo" ←

13:52:20 <ShaneM> I am dealing with a just-arisen crisis at the office, so I am unable to call in until I get it sorted.

Shane McCarron: I am dealing with a just-arisen crisis at the office, so I am unable to call in until I get it sorted. ←

13:52:28 <Steven> Previous --> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes

Steven Pemberton: Previous --> http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes ←

13:52:41 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

13:52:55 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

13:52:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/10-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

13:53:26 <Steven> s/17/10/

13:53:49 <Steven> Topic: TPAC

1. TPAC

13:53:56 <Steven> Roland: Is there a registration page?

Roland Merrick: Is there a registration page? ←

13:54:16 <Steven> Steven: Yes, see http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2008/

Steven Pemberton: Yes, see http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2008/ ←

13:54:44 <Steven> Alessio: I am planning to come

Alessio Cartocci: I am planning to come ←

13:54:59 <Tina> I am integrating her comments in the article - tho not as we speak.

Tina Holmboe: I am integrating her comments in the article - tho not as we speak. ←

13:54:59 <Steven> Topic: Tina's Primer

2. Tina's Primer

13:55:07 <Steven> http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/xhtml.html

http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/xhtml.html ←

13:55:32 <Tina> Zakim, unmute me

Tina Holmboe: Zakim, unmute me ←

13:55:32 <Zakim> Tina should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Tina should no longer be muted ←

13:55:56 <Steven> Roland: I see Christina has sent a review

Roland Merrick: I see Christina has sent a review ←

13:56:16 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0013.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Sep/0013.html ←

13:56:39 <Steven> Steven: I have some comments

Steven Pemberton: I have some comments ←

13:57:14 <Steven> Tina: It was good. Mostly linguistic changes from Christina.

Tina Holmboe: It was good. Mostly linguistic changes from Christina. ←

14:01:32 <Steven> Steven: Domain experts

Steven Pemberton: Domain experts ←

14:01:40 <Steven> Tina: I will be rewriting that

Tina Holmboe: I will be rewriting that ←

14:01:48 <Steven> Steven: CSS instead of RDF

Steven Pemberton: CSS instead of RDF ←

14:04:02 <Steven> Tina: Knowledge of semantics allows the browser to take the realities of the user into account

Tina Holmboe: Knowledge of semantics allows the browser to take the realities of the user into account ←

14:04:07 <Steven> Roland: Who is the reader?

Roland Merrick: Who is the reader? ←

14:04:22 <Steven> Tine: GOod point. I shall add that at the beginning

Scribe problem: the name 'Tine' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Tine: Good point. I shall add that at the beginning ←

14:04:29 <Steven> s/GO/Go/

14:11:10 <Steven> Steven: Prudction vs consumption

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Steven Pemberton: Prudction vs consumption ←

14:11:24 <Steven> Steven: Using media type to get it into the browser

Steven Pemberton: Using media type to get it into the browser ←

14:11:40 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina

ACTION: Steven to send examples of media type heuristics to Tina ←

14:14:15 <Steven> Roland: Anything else?

Roland Merrick: Anything else? ←

14:14:20 <Steven> Tina: No that's good.

Tina Holmboe: No that's good. ←

14:14:32 <Tina> Zakim, mute me

Tina Holmboe: Zakim, mute me ←

14:14:32 <Zakim> Tina should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Tina should now be muted ←

14:14:46 <Steven> Tina: Please send me email comments if you have them.

Tina Holmboe: Please send me email comments if you have them. ←

14:15:25 <Steven> Topic: M12N status

3. M12N status

14:15:51 <Steven> Steven: W3C is fully involved with the W3F last week; I expect we can have a call when the dust settles

Steven Pemberton: W3C is fully involved with the W3F last week; I expect we can have a call when the dust settles ←

14:16:44 <Steven> Topic: Events

4. Events

14:16:46 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0035

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Aug/0035 ←

14:18:29 <Steven> Roland: I remember talking about this in venice

Roland Merrick: I remember talking about this in venice ←

14:19:04 <Steven> Steven: Isn't the problem with name clashes with Common attributes?

Steven Pemberton: Isn't the problem with name clashes with Common attributes? ←

14:19:06 <Steven> Roland: Yes

Roland Merrick: Yes ←

14:19:46 <Steven> ... @ raise instead of @event

... @ raise instead of @event ←

14:20:37 <Steven> Steven: @event is a common attribute, should we incorporate XML Events into XHTML2

Steven Pemberton: @event is a common attribute, should we incorporate XML Events into XHTML2 ←

14:21:18 <Steven> ... if we decide to use XML Even6ts without namespace prefixes, then no element may have an attribute call event

... if we decide to use XML Even6ts without namespace prefixes, then no element may have an attribute called event ←

14:21:26 <Steven> s/call/called/

14:21:57 <Steven> Roland: I don't think it is generally true that @raise would suggest exceptions rather than events

Roland Merrick: I don't think it is generally true that @raise would suggest exceptions rather than events ←

14:23:32 <Steven> ... I don't think we can do much about this one

... I don't think we can do much about this one ←

14:23:39 <Steven> Steven: We could ask for more suggestions

Steven Pemberton: We could ask for more suggestions ←

14:23:47 <alessio> agree

Alessio Cartocci: agree ←

14:24:23 <Steven> Roland: @destid rather than @target

Roland Merrick: @destid rather than @target ←

14:24:48 <Steven> Steven: Again @target is taken as a Common attribute

Steven Pemberton: Again @target is taken as a Common attribute ←

14:24:53 <Steven> Roland: What does it do?

Roland Merrick: What does it do? ←

14:25:12 <Steven> Steven: It says you are only interested in events that have been targetted to that element

Steven Pemberton: It says you are only interested in events that have been targetted to that element ←

14:25:50 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20080625/

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20080625/ ←

14:26:12 <Steven> Steven: Oh it's changed

Steven Pemberton: Oh it's changed ←

14:26:19 <Steven> @destid is now @to

@destid is now @to ←

14:26:51 <Steven> ... so that one is solved

... so that one is solved ←

14:27:32 <Steven> Roland: And what happened to the action element

Roland Merrick: And what happened to the action element ←

14:27:37 <Steven> ... still @targetid

... still @targetid ←

14:28:22 <Steven> Steven: @target is used for @href

Steven Pemberton: @target is used for @href ←

14:29:54 <Steven> Roland: addEventListener has an attribute called taget?

Roland Merrick: addEventListener has an attribute called taget? ←

14:30:04 <Steven> Steven: No, an attrivute that has target as a value

Steven Pemberton: No, an attrivute that has target as a value ←

14:30:52 <Steven> Roland: Where is @target defined

Roland Merrick: Where is @target defined ←

14:30:56 <Steven> Steven: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-modularization-20080813/abstract_modules.html#s_targetmodule

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-modularization-20080813/abstract_modules.html#s_targetmodule ←

14:32:16 <Steven> Steven: In M12N 1.1 it is a module that ads @target to several places

Steven: In M12N 1.1 it is a module that ads @target to several places ←

14:32:33 <Steven> Roland: Frames?

Roland Merrick: Frames? ←

14:32:57 <Steven> Steven: Well, 'environment'; see XHTML Basic 1.1

Steven Pemberton: Well, 'environment'; see XHTML Basic 1.1 ←

14:33:33 <Steven> "The target attribute is designed to be a general hook for binding to an external environment (such as Frames, multiple windows, browser-tabbed windows); when there is no such external environment bound to the user agent, the user agent can ignore the target attribute. When there is an external environment bound, the conformance requirements for the target attribute are defined in each environment."

"The target attribute is designed to be a general hook for binding to an external environment (such as Frames, multiple windows, browser-tabbed windows); when there is no such external environment bound to the user agent, the user agent can ignore the target attribute. When there is an external environment bound, the conformance requirements for the target attribute are defined in each environment." ←

14:34:21 <Steven> Steven: M12N should say that too really; too late now though

Steven Pemberton: M12N should say that too really; too late now though ←

14:34:36 <Steven> Roland: Type ID?

Roland Merrick: Type ID? ←

14:34:41 <Steven> Steven: Interesting

Steven Pemberton: Interesting ←

14:35:08 <Steven> ... M12n says CDATA

... M12n says CDATA ←

14:35:31 <ShaneM> CDATA is correct for @target

Shane McCarron: CDATA is correct for @target ←

14:35:47 <Steven> Roland: Would it matter that we left target on some elements?

Roland Merrick: Would it matter that we left target on some elements? ←

14:37:13 <Steven> Present+Shane

Present+Shane ←

14:37:58 <Steven> Steven: You're suggesting we could use the same definition of target on dispatchEvent

Steven Pemberton: You're suggesting we could use the same definition of target on dispatchEvent ←

14:38:03 <Steven> ... hmm, possible

... hmm, possible ←

14:38:24 <alessio> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/WD-xhtml-access-20080107/

Alessio Cartocci: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/WD-xhtml-access-20080107/ ←

14:39:01 <Steven> Roland: @target just becomes contextual

Roland Merrick: @target just becomes contextual ←

14:39:34 <Steven> ... the only place it would be problematic would be if you couldn;t determine the context

... the only place it would be problematic would be if you couldn;t determine the context ←

14:40:02 <Steven> Steven: I'm not sure if I like it

Steven Pemberton: I'm not sure if I like it ←

14:40:05 <ShaneM> The problem is that if it is in Common it will collide

Shane McCarron: The problem is that if it is in Common it will collide ←

14:40:09 <Steven> ... I need to let it sink in

... I need to let it sink in ←

14:40:14 <ShaneM> and in XHTML 2 it owuld need to be in Common

Shane McCarron: and in XHTML 2 it would need to be in Common ←

14:40:41 <Steven> Well, Shane, we would use the one in Common, that is the suggestion

Well, Shane, we would use the one in Common, that is the suggestion ←

14:40:48 <ShaneM> s/owuld/would/

14:41:15 <Steven> Roland: Well we can noodle on it for a while

Roland Merrick: Well we can noodle on it for a while ←

14:41:53 <ShaneM> I don't think you can.  XML Events 2 is independent of XHTML 2.  Implementation-wise it could use Common's definition, but we would still have to define it in XML Events 2

Shane McCarron: I don't think you can. XML Events 2 is independent of XHTML 2. Implementation-wise it could use Common's definition, but we would still have to define it in XML Events 2 ←

14:42:08 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029 ←

14:42:52 <Steven> Steven: They are asking why we renamed to dispatchEvent

Steven Pemberton: They are asking why we renamed to dispatchEvent ←

14:43:21 <Steven> Roland: We'd have to look at the minutes

Roland Merrick: We'd have to look at the minutes ←

14:43:33 <Steven> ... maybe because it was different from the one in XForms

... maybe because it was different from the one in XForms ←

14:44:50 <Steven> Steven: I'll talk to them in the next hour

Steven Pemberton: I'll talk to them in the next hour ←

14:45:12 <Steven> ADJOURN

ADJOURN ←

14:45:19 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←

14:45:20 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

14:45:21 <Zakim> -Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←

14:45:22 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←

14:45:24 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←

14:45:25 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Steven, Alessio, Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, Steven, Alessio, Tina ←

14:46:23 <alessio> bye, have a good day :)

Alessio Cartocci: bye, have a good day :) ←

14:46:32 <Steven> Regrets+Mark

Regrets+Mark ←

14:46:41 <Steven> rrsahgent, make minutes

rrsahgent, make minutes ←

14:46:46 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:46:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

14:47:55 <Steven> Present+Shane

Present+Shane ←

14:48:01 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:48:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/17-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

Formatted by CommonScribe