Meeting Record

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XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 14 May 2008

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0021.html

Present

Unknown +Tina

Regrets

Chair

Scribe

IRC Log

Resolutions

accept changes proposed by GJR as well as those agreed to at this meeting; GJR will repost to public-xhtml2 ASAP link
Access Module will go to last call as amended link

Topics

Outstanding Reviews
CURIE Syntax
Role Module
Steve Bratt on Transition
RDFa Syntax
Access Module
XML Events 2
Wrap UP

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13:32:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-irc ←

13:33:11 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, this will be XHTML2

Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2 ←

13:33:11 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, RolandMerrick

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, RolandMerrick ←

13:33:19 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, list

Roland Merrick: Zakim, list ←

13:33:19 <Zakim> I see Team_W3M()8:00AM, SEC_WSCWG(F2F)2:00AM active and no others scheduled to start in the next 15 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: I see Team_W3M()8:00AM, SEC_WSCWG(F2F)2:00AM active and no others scheduled to start in the next 15 minutes ←

13:34:04 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml ←

13:34:04 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven ←

13:34:08 <RolandMerrick> dunno :-(

Roland Merrick: dunno :-( ←

13:34:10 <Steven> huh?

Steven Pemberton: huh? ←

13:35:20 <Steven> true

Steven Pemberton: true ←

13:35:20 <Steven> zakim was weird yesterday too

Steven Pemberton: zakim was weird yesterday too ←

13:35:46 <RolandMerrick> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

13:36:08 <RolandMerrick> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0021.html

13:36:15 <RolandMerrick> Chair: Roland

13:36:26 <RolandMerrick> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←

13:36:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html RolandMerrick

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html RolandMerrick ←

13:36:36 <RolandMerrick> rrsagent, make log public

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public ←

13:37:15 <Steven> zakim, this will be ia

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be ia ←

13:37:16 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven ←

13:37:25 <Steven> zakim,this will be html

Steven Pemberton: zakim,this will be html ←

13:37:27 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven ←

13:37:34 <Steven> weird

Steven Pemberton: weird ←

13:38:42 <Roland> this happened to me yesterday, could call in as usual though.

Roland Merrick: this happened to me yesterday, could call in as usual though. ←

13:39:01 <oedipus> yeah, zakim works as a bridge, but nothing else

Gregory Rosmaita: yeah, zakim works as a bridge, but nothing else ←

13:40:19 <Roland> I have dialed in and all seems "normal"

Roland Merrick: I have dialed in and all seems "normal" ←

13:42:07 <Steven> zakim, this is xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this is xhtml ←

13:42:07 <Zakim> ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()9:45AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()9:45AM ←

13:42:34 <Steven> apparently someone has to dial in for Zakim to get it

Steven Pemberton: apparently someone has to dial in for Zakim to get it ←

13:43:03 <Steven> 04Zakim-bot does not have today's schedule loaded; if Zakim says "I do not see a conference" before your conf is started then dial-in to start your conference and say "this is ..."01""

Steven Pemberton: 04Zakim-bot does not have today's schedule loaded; if Zakim says "I do not see a conference" before your conf is started then dial-in to start your conference and say "this is ..."01"" ←

13:43:23 <Steven> found on sysreq irc channel

Steven Pemberton: found on sysreq irc channel ←

13:43:42 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

13:44:18 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

13:45:46 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-mobile

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-mobile ←

13:45:47 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

13:45:48 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

13:46:44 <Steven> There is a national adsl breakdown since 3am yesterday

Steven Pemberton: There is a national adsl breakdown since 3am yesterday ←

13:46:51 <Steven> so I am using my cell for both the call and IP...

Steven Pemberton: so I am using my cell for both the call and IP... ←

13:47:06 <oedipus> so you're the one who sounds like they are in a submarine?

Gregory Rosmaita: so you're the one who sounds like they are in a submarine? ←

13:47:13 <Steven> sounds quality rather poor

Steven Pemberton: sounds quality rather poor ←

13:48:29 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←

13:48:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven ←

13:48:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh ←

13:49:07 <Roland> Regrets: Mark

13:49:25 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

13:49:25 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←

13:49:30 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus

13:49:54 <oedipus> TOPIC: Outstanding Reviews

1. Outstanding Reviews

13:50:02 <Steven> zakim, ??P6 is Alessio

Steven Pemberton: zakim, ??P6 is Alessio ←

13:50:02 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←

13:50:07 <oedipus> RM: only 2 people and myself at last week's meeting -- nothing happened

Roland Merrick: only 2 people and myself at last week's meeting -- nothing happened ←

13:50:24 <oedipus> RM: review for XML Base?

Roland Merrick: review for XML Base? ←

13:50:29 <oedipus> Steven: no

Steven Pemberton: no ←

13:50:40 <oedipus> RM: june face 2 face -- has  everyone filled in form?

Roland Merrick: june face 2 face -- has everyone filled in form? ←

13:50:44 <Steven> s/ies/y's/

Steven Pemberton: s/ies/y's/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

13:51:22 <oedipus> Steven action to review XML Base by 30 June continued

Steven action to review XML Base by 30 June continued ←

13:51:32 <Roland> F2F Registration form: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2ftf200806/

Roland Merrick: F2F Registration form: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2ftf200806/ ←

13:51:36 <Tina> The f2f has fallen out of my list. Will get to it.

Tina Holmboe: The f2f has fallen out of my list. Will get to it. ←

13:52:01 <Steven> Maybe do it entirely remotely?

Steven Pemberton: Maybe do it entirely remotely? ←

13:52:02 <oedipus> RM: reads face2face page -- only 3 people listed as attendees

Roland Merrick: reads face2face page -- only 3 people listed as attendees ←

13:52:11 <oedipus> RM: worthwhile?  what are people's intentions?

Roland Merrick: worthwhile? what are people's intentions? ←

13:52:22 <oedipus> RM: yam will be on IRC rather than in person

Roland Merrick: yam will be on IRC rather than in person ←

13:52:28 <oedipus> GJR: cannot attend

Gregory Rosmaita: cannot attend ←

13:52:45 <oedipus> RM: steven, shane and roland will attend

Roland Merrick: steven, shane and roland will attend ←

13:52:52 <oedipus> GJR: yes by phone and IRC

Gregory Rosmaita: yes by phone and IRC ←

13:53:13 <oedipus> Alessio: will attend remotely

Alessio Cartocci: will attend remotely ←

13:53:28 <oedipus> Steven: do entire F2F remotely?

Steven Pemberton: do entire F2F remotely? ←

13:53:37 <oedipus> Tina: will attend remotely

Tina Holmboe: will attend remotely ←

13:53:57 <oedipus> RM: MarkB unknown status

Roland Merrick: MarkB unknown status ←

13:54:12 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

13:54:13 <oedipus> SM: MarkB travelling most of may, disinclined to travel in june

Shane McCarron: MarkB travelling most of may, disinclined to travel in june ←

13:54:15 <Steven> XHTML2

Steven Pemberton: ←

13:54:17 <ShaneM> oops

Shane McCarron: oops ←

13:54:30 <Steven> s/XHTML2//

13:54:46 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

13:54:53 <Steven> Mark says he can't attend in person, can attend remotely

Steven Pemberton: Mark says he can't attend in person, can attend remotely ←

13:54:55 <oedipus> RM: once get mark's answer, will consider moving dates, moving location, keeping dates and location, doing whole remotely or whatever circumstances dictate

Roland Merrick: once get mark's answer, will consider moving dates, moving location, keeping dates and location, doing whole remotely or whatever circumstances dictate ←

13:55:22 <oedipus> RM: question: people can do remotely -- is the problem the location?

Roland Merrick: question: people can do remotely -- is the problem the location? ←

13:55:27 <oedipus> GJR: no

Gregory Rosmaita: no ←

13:55:43 <oedipus> Alessio: financial and logistic problem

Alessio Cartocci: financial and logistic problem ←

13:55:47 <Tina> Ditto

Tina Holmboe: Ditto ←

13:56:21 <oedipus> GJR cannot attend due to health problems and such

GJR cannot attend due to health problems and such ←

13:56:28 <Steven> Mark says the problem is availability of time

Steven Pemberton: Mark says the problem is availability of time ←

13:56:50 <Steven> I concur that it is silly for three to travel

Steven Pemberton: I concur that it is silly for three to travel ←

13:56:52 <oedipus> RM: only 3 people attending doesn't sound wise for those 3 to travel - might as well all be equal and have a virtual f2f

Roland Merrick: only 3 people attending doesn't sound wise for those 3 to travel - might as well all be equal and have a virtual f2f ←

13:57:00 <Steven> We should try and set up a remote meeting then

Steven Pemberton: We should try and set up a remote meeting then ←

13:57:08 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1 to SP

Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 to SP ←

13:57:19 <oedipus> RM: shall we resolve to have virtual f2f?

Roland Merrick: shall we resolve to have virtual f2f? ←

13:57:21 <Steven> +1

Steven Pemberton: +1 ←

13:57:21 <oedipus> GJR: yes

Gregory Rosmaita: yes ←

13:57:26 <ShaneM> +1 I guess

Shane McCarron: +1 I guess ←

13:57:51 <Tina> ... not *alot*, anyway ... ;)

Tina Holmboe: ... not *alot*, anyway ... ;) ←

13:57:58 <oedipus> RM: what would be a workable time-slot for all of us?

Roland Merrick: what would be a workable time-slot for all of us? ←

13:58:03 <Tina> ShaneM: that reminds me, need a quick word afterwards.

Shane McCarron: that reminds me, need a quick word afterwards. [ Scribe Assist by Tina Holmboe ] ←

13:58:23 <oedipus> RM: shane is UTC minus 5 -- furthest west?

Roland Merrick: shane is UTC minus 5 -- furthest west? ←

13:58:37 <oedipus> SM: gerrie schultz (last name spelled incorrectly)

Shane McCarron: gerrie schultz (last name spelled incorrectly) ←

13:58:43 <oedipus> SM: easy to shift schedule

Shane McCarron: easy to shift schedule ←

13:58:46 <oedipus> GJR: same for me

Gregory Rosmaita: same for me ←

13:58:56 <Steven> Our flexible friend

Steven Pemberton: Our flexible friend ←

13:59:18 <oedipus> RM: will suggest logistics - probably 3 hour chuncks

Roland Merrick: will suggest logistics - probably 3 hour chuncks ←

13:59:31 <Steven> how many chunks?

Steven Pemberton: how many chunks? ←

13:59:31 <Steven> 2?

Steven Pemberton: 2? ←

13:59:32 <oedipus> RM: will confer next week on RM's proposed logistics

Roland Merrick: will confer next week on RM's proposed logistics ←

13:59:42 <oedipus> TOPIC: CURIE Syntax

2. CURIE Syntax

13:59:51 <oedipus> RM: in last call; received a bit of feedback

Roland Merrick: in last call; received a bit of feedback ←

14:00:02 <oedipus> TOPIC: Role Module

3. Role Module

14:00:09 <oedipus> RM: ended last call on 10 may 2008

Roland Merrick: ended last call on 10 may 2008 ←

14:00:12 <Steven> SVG sent comments last week

Steven Pemberton: SVG sent comments last week ←

14:00:39 <oedipus> RM: dialog with WAI about Access Module and placement of ARIA role names into XHTML namespace

Roland Merrick: dialog with WAI about Access Module and placement of ARIA role names into XHTML namespace ←

14:00:47 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008AprJun/0024.html

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008AprJun/0024.html ←

14:00:47 <oedipus> SP: SVG comment from last thursday

Steven Pemberton: SVG comment from last thursday ←

14:01:07 <oedipus> SM: forwarded to issue tracker system -- in "incoming" bucket --  moving to "Role" bucket now

Shane McCarron: forwarded to issue tracker system -- in "incoming" bucket -- moving to "Role" bucket now ←

14:01:16 <oedipus> RM: vocab document dialog

Roland Merrick: vocab document dialog ←

14:01:36 <oedipus> SM: not critical path for spec; vocab doc will develop independently and should let it do so

Shane McCarron: not critical path for spec; vocab doc will develop independently and should let it do so ←

14:02:04 <Tina> On topic of Access Module and ARIA: am doing a brief presentation at a Swedish IT professionals organisation, Monday 19th, on topic of XHTML 2 WG. If anyone have input on that topic, feel free to contact me directly.

Tina Holmboe: On topic of Access Module and ARIA: am doing a brief presentation at a Swedish IT professionals organisation, Monday 19th, on topic of XHTML 2 WG. If anyone have input on that topic, feel free to contact me directly. ←

14:02:10 <oedipus> RM: where are normative definitions -- SM response on list; should consider -- vocab document something machine-processable at run-time -- seems to me should be normative like schema or DTD

Roland Merrick: where are normative definitions -- SM response on list; should consider -- vocab document something machine-processable at run-time -- seems to me should be normative like schema or DTD ←

14:02:21 <oedipus> SM: not saying not normative, just not part of spec

Shane McCarron: not saying not normative, just not part of spec ←

14:02:31 <oedipus> RM: question posed by AlG -- is it a normative document

Roland Merrick: question posed by AlG -- is it a normative document ←

14:02:42 <oedipus> SM: will have to reread question in light of RM's comments

Shane McCarron: will have to reread question in light of RM's comments ←

14:03:07 <oedipus> TOPIC: Steve Bratt on Transition

4. Steve Bratt on Transition

14:03:12 <oedipus> RM: REALLY dragging on...

Roland Merrick: REALLY dragging on... ←

14:03:47 <oedipus> SP: sent email yesterday; got unclear reply -- not clear what root of problem is, so tried again

Steven Pemberton: sent email yesterday; got unclear reply -- not clear what root of problem is, so tried again ←

14:04:09 <oedipus> RM: yam sent email to list -- can't refer to spec -- holding up other OMA specs

Roland Merrick: yam sent email to list -- can't refer to spec -- holding up other OMA specs ←

14:04:17 <oedipus> SM: holding up other specs for us, too

Shane McCarron: holding up other specs for us, too ←

14:04:21 <oedipus> RM: not just us

Roland Merrick: not just us ←

14:04:33 <oedipus> SP: no formal reply to transition request

Steven Pemberton: no formal reply to transition request ←

14:04:43 <oedipus> RM: causing problems for OMA

Roland Merrick: causing problems for OMA ←

14:05:01 <oedipus> RM: biggest problem for OMA isn't Basic transition, but M12n

Roland Merrick: biggest problem for OMA isn't Basic transition, but M12n ←

14:05:30 <oedipus> RM: don't undestand delay -- especially without explanation

Roland Merrick: don't undestand delay -- especially without explanation ←

14:05:48 <oedipus> TOPIC: RDFa Syntax

5. RDFa Syntax

14:06:02 <oedipus> RM: different comments from TAG

Roland Merrick: different comments from TAG ←

14:06:28 <oedipus> SM: the core of issue is something we discussed long time ago -- XHTML+SVG media type -- request from TAG to change doc to permit RDF

Shane McCarron: the core of issue is something we discussed long time ago -- XHTML+SVG media type -- request from TAG to change doc to permit RDF ←

14:06:48 <oedipus> SM: TAG commented about mediatypes and RDFa - felt need to update media doc

Shane McCarron: TAG commented about mediatypes and RDFa - felt need to update media doc ←

14:07:10 <oedipus> SP: thought we said we didn't see what problem was

Steven Pemberton: thought we said we didn't see what problem was ←

14:07:17 <oedipus> SM: right -- did you convey that to TAG?

Shane McCarron: right -- did you convey that to TAG? ←

14:07:43 <oedipus> SM: background - TAG has document working on - NormW updated this week, still states need media type to change

Shane McCarron: background - TAG has document working on - NoahM updated this week, still states need media type to change ←

14:07:56 <oedipus> s/NormW/NoahM

14:09:01 <oedipus> SM: talked with noah privately, now understand what is going on -- semantic web and announcements: how do things that are part of semantic web know that content might contain RDF -- how helping with RDFa syntax; don't think is an issue for this WG -- don't need to do anything with mediatype and want to ascertain if we have stated that to TAG and if not, we should now

Shane McCarron: talked with noah privately, now understand what is going on -- semantic web and announcements: how do things that are part of semantic web know that content might contain RDF -- how helping with RDFa syntax; don't think is an issue for this WG -- don't need to do anything with mediatype and want to ascertain if we have stated that to TAG and if not, we should now ←

14:09:05 <Roland> The Self-Describing Web : http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2008-05-12.html

Roland Merrick: The Self-Describing Web : http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2008-05-12.html ←

14:09:29 <oedipus> SM: TAG suggestion: update mediatype to affirm that RDF can be served

Shane McCarron: TAG suggestion: update mediatype to affirm that RDF can be served ←

14:09:38 <oedipus> SM: not necessary

Shane McCarron: not necessary ←

14:09:46 <oedipus> SP: send again to TAG

Steven Pemberton: send again to TAG ←

14:10:30 <oedipus> steven's existing action: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action06

steven's existing action: recorded in ACTION-06">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#ACTION-06 ←

14:10:31 <Roland> existing action : http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action06

Roland Merrick: existing action : ACTION-06">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#ACTION-06 ←

14:11:03 <oedipus> SM: meanwhile will get task force to respond to Noah's draft -- bigger response could be made, but want to put to bed

Shane McCarron: meanwhile will get task force to respond to Noah's draft -- bigger response could be made, but want to put to bed ←

14:11:14 <Steven> I'm sorry. I think I confused that with my other action wrt the TAG

Steven Pemberton: I'm sorry. I think I confused that with my other action wrt the TAG ←

14:11:21 <oedipus> RM: is that all on RDFa side?  still another couple of outstanding actions

Roland Merrick: is that all on RDFa side? still another couple of outstanding actions ←

14:11:54 <oedipus> SM: XML data set; want to leave other actions open -- need more dialog on rel attribute; have sent out email, but so far no replies

Shane McCarron: XML data set; want to leave other actions open -- need more dialog on rel attribute; have sent out email, but so far no replies ←

14:12:14 <oedipus> TOPIC: Access Module

6. Access Module

14:12:32 <oedipus> RM: GJR emailed Access Module rewording to list today (14 may 2008)

Roland Merrick: GJR emailed Access Module rewording to list today (14 may 2008) ←

14:12:37 <oedipus> SM: not had time to read

Shane McCarron: not had time to read ←

14:13:23 <Roland> GJR note: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0023.html

Roland Merrick: GJR note: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0023.html ←

14:13:54 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←

14:14:04 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/AccessModule/

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/AccessModule/ ←

14:14:05 <yamx> zakim, ??P2 is yamx.

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: zakim, ??P2 is yamx. ←

14:14:05 <Zakim> +yamx; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yamx; got it ←

14:19:01 <ShaneM> Shane asked about the definition of "session".  Gregory will try to find a reference.

Shane McCarron: Shane asked about the definition of "session". Gregory will try to find a reference. ←

14:19:34 <ShaneM> Shane asked why everything is "should" instead of "must".  Gregory indicated they did not want to use MUST because it is too strong.

Shane McCarron: Shane asked why everything is "should" instead of "must". Gregory indicated part of the UAWG did not want to use MUST because it is too strong. ←

14:19:47 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/KeyMappingBinding/Talk

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/KeyMappingBinding/Talk ←

14:22:41 <oedipus> User agents <ins>MUST</ins> provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting

User agents <ins>MUST</ins> provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting ←

14:22:41 <oedipus> with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving

with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving ←

14:22:41 <oedipus> content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further action,

content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further action, ←

14:22:41 <oedipus> as required by UAAG 1.0, Checkpoint 9.5. [1]

as required by UAAG 1.0, Checkpoint 9.5. [1] ←

14:23:13 <ShaneM> There is an assertion missing from @key about MUST be able to override.  Gregory agreed to add it back.

Shane McCarron: There is an assertion missing from @key about MUST be able to override. Gregory agreed to add it back. ←

14:25:10 <oedipus> s/they did not/part of the UAWG did not

14:26:11 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: accept changes proposed by GJR as well as those agreed to at this meeting; GJR will repost to public-xhtml2 ASAP

RESOLVED: accept changes proposed by GJR as well as those agreed to at this meeting; GJR will repost to public-xhtml2 ASAP ←

14:26:48 <oedipus> TOPIC: XML Events 2

7. XML Events 2

14:26:49 <oedipus> RM: done updates to XML Events 2 following f2f should work through review and take to last call asap

Roland Merrick: done updates to XML Events 2 following f2f should work through review and take to last call asap ←

14:26:55 <Steven> please add resolution to go to last call

Steven Pemberton: please add resolution to go to last call ←

14:27:03 <Steven> (only the scribe can do it)

Steven Pemberton: (only the scribe can do it) ←

14:27:19 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: Access Module will go to last call as ammended

RESOLVED: Access Module will go to last call as amended ←

14:28:06 <oedipus> RM: XML Events 2 draft ready to for publich review in preparation for transition to last call -- perhaps next week

Roland Merrick: XML Events 2 draft ready to for publish review in preparation for transition to last call -- perhaps next week ←

14:28:18 <oedipus> s/publich/publish

14:28:29 <Steven> s/ammended/amended/

14:28:48 <oedipus> RM: would like to go through Alessio's work on frames and iframe

Roland Merrick: would like to go through Alessio's work on frames and iframe ←

14:29:02 <oedipus> RM: read email from 2 weeks ago -- are you connected AC?

Roland Merrick: read email from 2 weeks ago -- are you connected AC? ←

14:29:05 <Steven> I would also like to report back on XTech conference

Steven Pemberton: I would also like to report back on XTech conference ←

14:29:24 <oedipus> AC: only begining of possible work on object strengthening

Alessio Cartocci: only begining of possible work on object strengthening ←

14:29:32 <oedipus> RM: talk us through it at next week's call?

Roland Merrick: talk us through it at next week's call? ←

14:29:34 <oedipus> AC: yes

Alessio Cartocci: yes ←

14:29:41 <oedipus> RM: will put specifically on agenda

Roland Merrick: will put specifically on agenda ←

14:30:41 <oedipus> SP: feedback from XTech Conference: gave an XForms presentation -- very well received; discovered 2 more implementations didn't previously know of, but biggest joyous suprise was popularity of RDFa - major sites already adopting it, quite a buzz

Steven Pemberton: feedback from XTech Conference: gave an XForms presentation -- very well received; discovered 2 more implementations didn't previously know of, but biggest joyous suprise was popularity of RDFa - major sites already adopting it, quite a buzz ←

14:31:13 <oedipus> RM: clear up how to treat RDFa in HTML with TAG

Roland Merrick: clear up how to treat RDFa in HTML with TAG ←

14:31:15 <Steven> Also got interviewd by BBC on the HTML5/XHTML2 thing

Steven Pemberton: Also got interviewd by BBC on the HTML5/XHTML2 thing ←

14:31:26 <Steven> will be posted on blip.tv

Steven Pemberton: will be posted on blip.tv ←

14:32:03 <Steven> THat's a good solution: we can do that in no time

Steven Pemberton: THat's a good solution: we can do that in no time ←

14:32:23 <Steven> (that=changing the xhtml ns doc)

Steven Pemberton: (that=changing the xhtml ns doc) ←

14:32:41 <Steven> q+

Steven Pemberton: q+ ←

14:33:08 <Tina> Speaking of implementations ... if not implementation per se: there's work being done to start checking for ARIA and other similar techniques by my company's quality testing tool. No details as of yet.

Tina Holmboe: Speaking of implementations ... if not implementation per se: there's work being done to start checking for ARIA and other similar techniques by my company's quality testing tool. No details as of yet. ←

14:33:21 <Steven> ack me

Steven Pemberton: ack me ←

14:33:24 <oedipus> SM: TBL has suggested that change XHTML namespace doc so that if RDF processor is following its nose, it knows magically that any XHTML document might contain RDFa; a GRDDL processor can get RDF out of any XHTML document - very exiting from 50,000 foot level (enable semantic web); implication - any document will contain triples despite work we've done - strips announcement mechanism -- author can use doctype or version to declare using RDFa -- need to encoura

Shane McCarron: TBL has suggested that change XHTML namespace doc so that if RDF processor is following its nose, it knows magically that any XHTML document might contain RDFa; a GRDDL processor can get RDF out of any XHTML document - very exiting from 50,000 foot level (enable semantic web); implication - any document will contain triples despite work we've done - strips announcement mechanism -- author can use doctype or version to declare using RDFa -- need to encoura ←

14:34:25 <oedipus> SP: all of a sudden a bunch of docs containing triples -- all they do is represent a formal semantic way or implying that this is part of XHTML and this is part of RDFa -- don't know why objection to relationship statements; being extracted in RDF is only real concern -- what is being done with it

Steven Pemberton: all of a sudden a bunch of docs containing triples -- all they do is represent a formal semantic way or implying that this is part of XHTML and this is part of RDFa -- don't know why objection to relationship statements; being extracted in RDF is only real concern -- what is being done with it ←

14:34:38 <oedipus> SM: relationships there in that there is a @rel with a value

Shane McCarron: relationships there in that there is a @rel with a value ←

14:35:07 <oedipus> SM: doesn't mean that i as author not committing to architechture; semantic web about a contract -- this is where draw the line -- have to state where appropriate

Shane McCarron: doesn't mean that i as author not committing to architechture; semantic web about a contract -- this is where draw the line -- have to state where appropriate ←

14:35:50 <oedipus> RM: trying to ascertain how to say document more than one thing -- can write a bunch of valid XHTML 1.x and valid XHTML Mobile Profile and XHTML Basic -- aught to be able to claim conformance to all

Roland Merrick: trying to ascertain how to say document more than one thing -- can write a bunch of valid XHTML 1.x and valid XHTML Mobile Profile and XHTML Basic -- aught to be able to claim conformance to all ←

14:36:01 <Steven> I don't see the problem of extracting the relationships as RDF; the reationships are really there; all that has changed is representing them as RDF

Steven Pemberton: I don't see the problem of extracting the relationships as RDF; the reationships are really there; all that has changed is representing them as RDF ←

14:36:09 <Steven> it is like changing a JPG to PNG

Steven Pemberton: it is like changing a JPG to PNG ←

14:36:10 <oedipus> RM: one of these AND one of these AND one of these

Roland Merrick: one of these AND one of these AND one of these ←

14:36:15 <Steven> the information is the same

Steven Pemberton: the information is the same ←

14:36:22 <oedipus> RM: i am one of these - by implication i am not one of those

Roland Merrick: i am one of these - by implication i am not one of those ←

14:36:49 <oedipus> SM: if claim is can write valid Xfoo - validator should validate; if not valid XHTML Mobile, then it is not

Shane McCarron: if claim is can write valid Xfoo - validator should validate; if not valid XHTML Mobile, then it is not ←

14:37:15 <oedipus> RM: version, doctype or mimetypes -- all contain info about pieces of compound document -- too many ways of talking about content

Roland Merrick: version, doctype or mimetypes -- all contain info about pieces of compound document -- too many ways of talking about content ←

14:37:36 <oedipus> SM: proposal

Shane McCarron: proposal ←

14:38:02 <oedipus> RM: addressed when discussed script ennumeration of features -- describe features and not the content

Roland Merrick: addressed when discussed script ennumeration of features -- describe features and not the content ←

14:38:18 <Steven> it might be my keyboard

Steven Pemberton: it might be my keyboard ←

14:38:25 <oedipus> RM: knee-jerk capabilities need to be considered

Roland Merrick: knee-jerk capabilities need to be considered ←

14:38:43 <oedipus> SM: have thought about way of saying "this doc is using a collection of features X" and that is of potential interest

Shane McCarron: have thought about way of saying "this doc is using a collection of features X" and that is of potential interest ←

14:38:53 <oedipus> SM: might be proposed syntax from 8 years ago

Shane McCarron: might be proposed syntax from 8 years ago ←

14:39:13 <oedipus> RM: more and more messy as enter mashup and fragment world -- fragment should assert what it is, not parent

Roland Merrick: more and more messy as enter mashup and fragment world -- fragment should assert what it is, not parent ←

14:39:24 <Steven> <link rel="stylesheet" href="s.css"/> says "this document uses a stylesheet called "s.css"

Steven Pemberton: <link rel="stylesheet" href="s.css"/> says "this document uses a stylesheet called "s.css" ←

14:39:28 <oedipus> SM: wonderful concept, but cobbling together arbitrary content is problematic

Shane McCarron: wonderful concept, but cobbling together arbitrary content is problematic ←

14:39:28 <Steven> so does:

Steven Pemberton: so does: ←

14:39:46 <Steven> <> html:stylesheet <s.css>

Steven Pemberton: <> html:stylesheet <s.css> ←

14:39:50 <oedipus> RM: if created valid SVG can assert it is valid and can be part of embedded SVG

Roland Merrick: if created valid SVG can assert it is valid and can be part of embedded SVG ←

14:40:04 <oedipus> GJR: question out of ignorance - can XPath be leveraged?

Gregory Rosmaita: question out of ignorance - can XPath be leveraged? ←

14:40:19 <Steven> q+

Steven Pemberton: q+ ←

14:40:22 <oedipus> FIVE MINUTE WARNING

FIVE MINUTE WARNING ←

14:40:30 <oedipus> ack steven

ack steven ←

14:40:55 <oedipus> SP: what do we do about this -- plan change to NS that XHTML docs may contain GRDDL profile and RDFa encoding?

Steven Pemberton: what do we do about this -- plan change to NS that XHTML docs may contain GRDDL profile and RDFa encoding? ←

14:41:38 <oedipus> SM: talked with TBL and danC about this -- just change doc at end of NS so has declaration, so that magica can ocurr -- all docs that reference this NS are included - that is TBL's view

Shane McCarron: talked with TBL and danC about this -- just change doc at end of NS so has declaration, so that magica can ocurr -- all docs that reference this NS are included - that is TBL's view ←

14:41:45 <oedipus> SM: like @link

Shane McCarron: like @link ←

14:42:00 <oedipus> SP: gets around media types argument

Steven Pemberton: gets around media types argument ←

14:42:27 <oedipus> SM: bad solution -- implies that entire XHTML using internet is suddently using triples -- don't think we've thought through all implicatinos of that

Shane McCarron: bad solution -- implies that entire XHTML using internet is suddently using triples -- don't think we've thought through all implicatinos of that ←

14:42:42 <oedipus> RM: might be a small change, but MUST document implications of change so people are aware of that

Roland Merrick: might be a small change, but MUST document implications of change so people are aware of that ←

14:43:04 <oedipus> SM: fully agree -- but not as response to a comment at this point in process

Shane McCarron: fully agree -- but not as response to a comment at this point in process ←

14:43:20 <oedipus> RM: may decide to do it -- not endorsing -- should make clear effect of doing it

Roland Merrick: may decide to do it -- not endorsing -- should make clear effect of doing it ←

14:43:24 <oedipus> SM: not our decision

Shane McCarron: not our decision ←

14:43:31 <oedipus> RM: yes, but we can provide guidance

Roland Merrick: yes, but we can provide guidance ←

14:43:47 <oedipus> SM: would like TAG to chime in on this -- big picture about web development

Shane McCarron: would like TAG to chime in on this -- big picture about web development ←

14:43:57 <oedipus> RM: go chew on this one rather than curies

Roland Merrick: go chew on this one rather than curies ←

14:44:10 <oedipus> SM: will do as soon as given action by RDFa task force

Shane McCarron: will do as soon as given action by RDFa task force ←

14:44:44 <oedipus> SM: also interested in hearing W3C's input from logistical perspective - means a whole class of things going to leave XHTML NS - interesting impact on web infrastructure of W3C

Shane McCarron: also interested in hearing W3C's input from logistical perspective - means a whole class of things going to leave XHTML NS - interesting impact on web infrastructure of W3C ←

14:44:55 <oedipus> TOPIC: Wrap UP

8. Wrap UP

14:44:56 <ShaneM> I wil copy this group on my comments on the tag stuff.

Shane McCarron: I wil copy this group on my comments on the tag stuff. ←

14:45:16 <oedipus> RM: good discussion -- any other items that need additional prorities, send to list and will get on agenda

Roland Merrick: good discussion -- any other items that need additional prorities, send to list and will get on agenda ←

14:45:22 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

14:45:23 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←

14:45:26 <Zakim> -yamx

Zakim IRC Bot: -yamx ←

14:45:28 <Steven> zakim, drtop me

Steven Pemberton: zakim, drtop me ←

14:45:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drtop me', Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'drtop me', Steven ←

14:45:29 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:45:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:45:32 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←

14:45:32 <Steven> zakim, drop me

Steven Pemberton: zakim, drop me ←

14:45:33 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven is being disconnected ←

14:45:33 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

14:45:40 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here? ←

14:45:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:45:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see yamx, Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see yamx, Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh ←

14:45:46 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:45:48 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←

14:45:49 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Alessio, yamx

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Alessio, yamx ←

14:45:51 <oedipus> zakim, please part

zakim, please part ←

14:45:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:45:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:47:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:47:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:47:58 <oedipus> present+ Tina_on_IRC

present+ Tina_on_IRC ←

14:48:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:48:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:48:07 <Roland> Present: +Tina

Scribe problem: the name '+Tina' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

14:48:23 <Roland> :-) great minds

Scribe problem: the name 'Roland' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown +Tina Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Roland: :-) great minds ←

14:48:29 <oedipus> lol

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown +Tina Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: lol ←

14:48:47 <Tina> Thank you :)

Scribe problem: the name 'Tina' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown +Tina Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Tina: Thank you :) ←

14:49:11 <oedipus> thank you for participating under adverse circumstances (a.k.a. life)

Unknown oedipus: thank you for participating under adverse circumstances (a.k.a. life) ←

14:49:42 <Tina> Hey, atleast here it doesn't matter if I cough my lungs out occasionally ;)

Unknown Tina: Hey, atleast here it doesn't matter if I cough my lungs out occasionally ;) ←

14:50:03 <oedipus> that's pretty much my morning ritual

Unknown oedipus: that's pretty much my morning ritual ←

14:50:15 <ShaneM> well - if you will live in New Jersey

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 4 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown +Tina Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: well - if you will live in New Jersey ←

14:50:17 <oedipus> s/Gregories/Gregory's

Unknown oedipus: s/Gregories/Gregory's (warning: replacement failed) ←

14:50:34 <oedipus> mea culpa -- i am a joisey boy through and through

Unknown oedipus: mea culpa -- i am a joisey boy through and through ←

14:51:20 <Tina> It *was* pneumonia. Been hitting the family in waves.

Unknown Tina: It *was* pneumonia. Been hitting the family in waves. ←

14:52:16 <oedipus> yikes - i know from personal experience that's no fun - missed the WWWx meeting in brisbane with a case of pnuemonia

Unknown oedipus: yikes - i know from personal experience that's no fun - missed the WWWx meeting in brisbane with a case of pnuemonia ←

14:52:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part

Unknown oedipus: rrsagent, please part ←

14:52:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←

Formatted by CommonScribe