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XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 23 April 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0057.html
Seen
Alessio Cartocci, Gregory Rosmaita, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Tina Holmboe, Toshihiko Yamakami
Regrets
Toshihiko Yamakami, Alessio Cartocci
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Steven Pemberton
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
13:00:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-irc

13:36:14 <Roland> Zakim, list

(No events recorded for 35 minutes)

Roland Merrick: Zakim, list

13:36:14 <Zakim> I see no active conferences

Zakim IRC Bot: I see no active conferences

13:36:15 <Zakim> scheduled at this time are IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: scheduled at this time are IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM

13:36:29 <Roland> Zakim, this will be XHTML2

Roland Merrick: Zakim, this will be XHTML2

13:36:29 <Zakim> ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes

13:36:48 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

13:36:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

13:37:02 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public

13:38:10 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:38:28 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:38:45 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0057.html
13:39:02 <Roland> Regrets: Yam, Alessio
13:39:18 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

13:39:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

13:45:37 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started

13:45:44 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland

13:45:58 <Roland> Zakim, list

Roland Merrick: Zakim, list

13:45:58 <Zakim> I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM active

Zakim IRC Bot: I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM active

13:45:59 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are SW_SWEO()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are SW_SWEO()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM

13:47:32 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

13:47:32 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:47:33 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

13:47:46 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

13:55:05 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita

13:55:23 <Steven> Scribe: steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

13:55:34 <Steven> Topic: CSS Namespaces review

1. CSS Namespaces review

13:55:49 <Steven> Steven: The reply was sent. Done

Steven Pemberton: The reply was sent. Done

13:55:54 <Steven> Topic: XML Base

2. XML Base

13:56:00 <Steven> Steven: Not done yet

Steven Pemberton: Not done yet

13:56:12 <Steven> Topic: FtF:

3. FtF:

13:56:27 <Steven> Roland: I see there is a registration questioniarre, and FtF page

Roland Merrick: I see there is a registration questioniarre, and FtF page

13:56:33 <Steven> ... please fill in everyone

... please fill in everyone

13:57:01 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0061.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0061.html

13:57:27 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-06-Minneapolis-FtF

13:57:49 <Steven> 8-0

8-0

13:58:13 <Steven> Topic: CURIE status

4. CURIE status

13:58:23 <Steven> Roland: We worked through one set of comments last week

Roland Merrick: We worked through one set of comments last week

13:58:50 <Steven> Steven: I sent a redraft last Friday

Steven Pemberton: I sent a redraft last Friday

13:58:51 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0056.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0056.html

13:59:08 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0063.html

Gregory Rosmaita: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0063.html

13:59:18 <Steven> Steven: Today I sent a draft pf part 2

Steven Pemberton: Today I sent a draft pf part 2

13:59:36 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0063.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0063.html

14:00:16 <Steven> Steven: I would like an OK from the group on the content

Steven Pemberton: I would like an OK from the group on the content

14:00:19 <Steven> ... of both

... of both

14:00:42 <Steven> Shane: Please CC the issue tracking system, so that we have the DB trail too

Shane McCarron: Please CC the issue tracking system, so that we have the DB trail too

14:00:44 <Steven> Steven: OK

Steven Pemberton: OK

14:01:48 <ShaneM> This is issue number 8035 in the tracking system.

Shane McCarron: This is issue number 8035 in the tracking system.

14:02:11 <Steven> Roland: OK with 2 mails?

Roland Merrick: OK with 2 mails?

14:02:21 <Steven> Steven: I prefer it that way, general/specific

Steven Pemberton: I prefer it that way, general/specific

14:02:30 <Steven> Roland: Any comments on these

Roland Merrick: Any comments on these?

14:02:43 <Steven> s/these/these?/
14:02:52 <Steven> Roland: Hearing no objections...

Roland Merrick: Hearing no objections...

14:02:54 <oedipus> no - send 'em

Gregory Rosmaita: no - send 'em

14:03:15 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to send two replies to TAG (issue 8035)

ACTION: Steven to send two replies to TAG (ISSUE-8035)

14:03:52 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

14:04:01 <Steven> Roland: Does this mean we can go to last call

Roland Merrick: Does this mean we can go to last call?

14:04:21 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

14:04:53 <Steven> s/call/call?/
14:05:10 <Steven> Steven: I believe we can, I see no hurdle

Steven Pemberton: I believe we can, I see no hurdle

14:05:18 <Steven> Roland: DO we need to add that to the reply?

Roland Merrick: Do we need to add that to the reply?

14:05:22 <Steven> s/DO/Do/
14:06:38 <Steven> Shane: In that case I think the reply to the TAG shouldn't ask them for more input. ("What more would you like to see?")

Shane McCarron: In that case I think the reply to the TAG shouldn't ask them for more input. ("What more would you like to see?")

14:07:18 <ShaneM> if you cc xhtml2-issues@mn.aptest.com with (PR#8032) in the subject line magic should occur.

Shane McCarron: if you cc xhtml2-issues@mn.aptest.com with (PR#8032) in the subject line magic should occur.

14:07:48 <ShaneM> [ ]

Shane McCarron: [ ]

14:07:52 <ShaneM> { }

Shane McCarron: { }

14:08:54 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to announce last call of CURIEs

ACTION: Steven to announce last call of CURIEs

14:09:31 <Steven> Topic: Mime type

5. Mime type

14:09:48 <Steven> Roland: We should review this

Roland Merrick: We should review this

14:09:59 <Steven> ... and possibly send a message to the public list

... and possibly send a message to the public list

14:12:38 <oedipus> SP: lot of discussions internal to w3c about mime-type; TBL doesn't see problem with text/html; got impression would address at AC meeting in Beijing; haven't checked those minutes yet; both TBL and DanC agree with us on this; TBL didn't realize how successful XHTML actually is -- only hearing "a complete flop" because no one using application/xml -- pointed out real usage statistics; some misunderstanding of role of new document; unreviewed at present, still

Steven Pemberton: lot of discussions internal to w3c about mime-type; TBL doesn't see problem with text/html; got impression would address at AC meeting in Beijing; haven't checked those minutes yet; both TBL and DanC agree with us on this; TBL didn't realize how successful XHTML actually is -- only hearing "a complete flop" because no one using application/xml -- pointed out real usage statistics; some misunderstanding of role of new document; unreviewed at present, still [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:13:19 <oedipus> SP: Olivier complained that in XHTML 1.0 allowed text/html for docs that follow Appendix C - which is informative, but section normative; found difficult to decide if Appendix C informative or normative

Steven Pemberton: Olivier complained that in XHTML 1.0 allowed text/html for docs that follow Appendix C - which is informative, but section normative; found difficult to decide if Appendix C informative or normative [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:13:26 <oedipus> Shane: we fixed that

Shane McCarron: we fixed that [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:13:50 <oedipus> SP: doesn't satisfy Olivier; could put stake in ground by reissuing 1.0 to make it clear

Steven Pemberton: doesn't satisfy Olivier; could put stake in ground by reissuing 1.0 to make it clear [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:14:16 <oedipus> Shane: proposal - let's reissue PR 1.0 removing Appendix C and instead referencing XHTML Mime

Shane McCarron: proposal - let's reissue PR 1.0 removing Appendix C and instead referencing XHTML Mime [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:14:28 <oedipus> SP: reissue 1.0 with those changes?  works for me

Steven Pemberton: reISSUE-1.0 with those changes? works for me [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:14:38 <oedipus> Shane: eliminates possibility of confusion

Shane McCarron: eliminates possibility of confusion [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:14:59 <oedipus> SP: good for 2 reasons: 1) removes ambiguity and 2) puts our stake firmly in ground

Steven Pemberton: good for 2 reasons: 1) removes ambiguity and 2) puts our stake firmly in ground [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:15:09 <oedipus> SP: need to get some backing for XHTML Mime -- ready to review?

Steven Pemberton: need to get some backing for XHTML Mime -- ready to review? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:15:27 <oedipus> Shane: Roland had some concerns, but in terms of changes i've made, i think i've completed the work

Shane McCarron: Roland had some concerns, but in terms of changes i've made, i think i've completed the work [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:16:01 <oedipus> ACTION - Everybody: review latest draft of XHTML Mime and consider RM's comments thereupon - due 2008/04/30

Gregory Rosmaita: ACTION - Everybody: review latest draft of XHTML Mime and consider RM's comments thereupon - due 2008/04/30

14:16:10 <oedipus> ACTION: Everybody - review latest draft of XHTML Mime and consider RM's comments thereupon - due 2008/04/30

ACTION: Everybody - review latest draft of XHTML Mime and consider RM's comments thereupon - due 2008/04/30

14:16:28 <Tina> Could someone remind me of the draft URI?

Tina Holmboe: Could someone remind me of the draft URI?

14:16:42 <Steven> look in /Drafts tina

look in /Drafts tina

14:16:45 <oedipus> Shane: had been planning on updating Appendix C in context of XHTML Mime, until realized, why not just replace?

Shane McCarron: had been planning on updating Appendix C in context of XHTML Mime, until realized, why not just replace? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:16:56 <oedipus> scribeNick+ oedipus

Gregory Rosmaita: scribeNick+ oedipus

14:17:05 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12N

6. M12N

14:17:11 <oedipus> RM: anything from SteveBratt

Roland Merrick: anything from SteveBratt [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:17:36 <oedipus> SP: most people in beijing at moment; been very quiet week for email, meetings and IRC -- next week will follow up

Steven Pemberton: most people in beijing at moment; been very quiet week for email, meetings and IRC -- next week will follow up [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:17:57 <Steven> scribe: Steven
14:18:44 <oedipus> recent email on Event from GJR: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0064.html

Gregory Rosmaita: recent email on Event from GJR: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0064.html

14:18:55 <Steven> Topic: script/@implements

7. script/@implements

14:19:04 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0059.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0059.html

14:19:41 <oedipus> quote from shane from f2f: "We can also do that with an @if that checks HASFEATURE so @implements is then a shorthand"

Gregory Rosmaita: quote from shane from f2f: "We can also do that with an @if that checks HASFEATURE so @implements is then a shorthand"

14:20:20 <Steven> Roland: Was I close?

Roland Merrick: Was I close?

14:20:31 <oedipus> GJR: +1 to RM's Question 1

Gregory Rosmaita: +1 to RM's Question 1 [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:20:54 <Steven> Steven: Yes

Steven Pemberton: Yes

14:21:07 <oedipus>  @implements tells the system that if there is an implementation of that NS, to ignore this script, or, if no script is present, to use the @implements to point to the pertinent namespace URI for the markup dialect/version/module which the user agent or an expert handler -- a piece of middleware that provides context and the language's ontology -- to invoke that namespace in order to properly parse input and output interactions with specialized knowledge doma

Gregory Rosmaita: @implements tells the system that if there is an implementation of that NS, to ignore this script, or, if no script is present, to use the @implements to point to the pertinent namespace URI for the markup dialect/version/module which the user agent or an expert handler -- a piece of middleware that provides context and the language's ontology -- to invoke that namespace in order to properly parse input and output interactions with specialized knowledge doma

14:21:12 <Steven> Roland: Is namespace too coarse a level?

Roland Merrick: Is namespace too coarse a level?

14:21:33 <oedipus> q+ to ask did you have specific granularity levels in mind when you posed the

Gregory Rosmaita: q+ to ask did you have specific granularity levels in mind when you posed the

14:21:33 <oedipus> question?

Gregory Rosmaita: question?

14:22:04 <Steven> Roland: Consider Alessio's frames script

Roland Merrick: Consider Alessio's frames script

14:22:47 <oedipus> SP: might include several scripts for sub-parts - top-level or not?

Steven Pemberton: might include several scripts for sub-parts - top-level or not? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ]

14:23:15 <Steven> Steven: I did intend it to be for namkespaces

Steven Pemberton: I did intend it to be for namkespaces

14:23:34 <Steven> ... but we could be more finely grained, if we could find a notation

... but we could be more finely grained, if we could find a notation

14:25:37 <Steven> ... consider a script that implemented href everywhere, or src everywhere

... consider a script that implemented href everywhere, or src everywhere

14:25:44 <oedipus> q?

Gregory Rosmaita: q?

14:26:23 <Steven> Shane: And then there are problems with different versions of a spec (XForms 1.0 and 1.1, which are both in the same namesapce)

Shane McCarron: And then there are problems with different versions of a spec (XForms 1.0 and 1.1, which are both in the same namesapce)

14:26:39 <Steven> Roland: and then you have @role and access

Roland Merrick: and then you have @role and access

14:27:11 <Steven> SHane: What about a list of CURIEs?

Shane McCarron: What about a list of CURIEs?

14:27:16 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:27:40 <Steven> Shane: implements="xh:role xh:access"

Shane McCarron: implements="xh:role xh:access"

14:28:24 <Steven> Gregory: If there is an implementation of a dialect or module that the UA doesn't know, it needs some middleware to help interpret the input

Gregory Rosmaita: If there is an implementation of a dialect or module that the UA doesn't know, it needs some middleware to help interpret the input

14:34:03 <oedipus> q-

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Gregory Rosmaita: q-

14:34:07 <Steven> Steven: I think that @implements gives you exactly what you want, since your middleware then knows to ignore those bits of script

Steven Pemberton: I think that @implements gives you exactly what you want, since your middleware then knows to ignore those bits of script

14:34:16 <oedipus> yes, you are correct

Gregory Rosmaita: yes, you are correct

14:34:31 <Steven> Gregory: WHat level of granularity were you thinking of ROland?

Gregory Rosmaita: What level of granularity were you thinking of ROland?

14:34:38 <Steven> Roland: Well, maybe module

Roland Merrick: Well, maybe module

14:34:43 <Steven> s/WH/Wh/
14:34:57 <Steven> Gergory: That is what I want too!

Gregory Rosmaita: That is what I want too!

14:35:10 <Steven> SHane: I think I agree

Shane McCarron: I think I agree

14:35:14 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:35:47 <Steven> Shane: I think that since that is our granularity level of definition, we should match that

Shane McCarron: I think that since that is our granularity level of definition, we should match that

14:36:07 <Steven> Gregory: It also gives people a reason to use M12N and to implement it correctly

Gregory Rosmaita: It also gives people a reason to use M12N and to implement it correctly

14:37:00 <Steven> Roland: I would agree with Shane that CURIEs would then be associated with modules

Roland Merrick: I would agree with Shane that CURIEs would then be associated with modules

14:37:24 <Steven> Shane: So we just need to develop a naming scheme - name, revision

Shane McCarron: So we just need to develop a naming scheme - name, revision

14:37:35 <Steven> [general agreement]

[general agreement]

14:38:10 <Steven> s/Gerg/Greg/
14:38:14 <ShaneM> in case I was not clear, I think the datatype for @implements is URIorCURIEs....

Shane McCarron: in case I was not clear, I think the datatype for @implements is URIorCURIEs....

14:38:24 <Steven> Roland: I will refine the rpoposal and send it for a later discussion

Roland Merrick: I will refine the rpoposal and send it for a later discussion

14:38:26 <ShaneM> which should probably be renamed URIorSafeCURIEs

Shane McCarron: which should probably be renamed URIorSafeCURIEs

14:38:30 <oedipus> yes, URI or CURIE

Gregory Rosmaita: yes, URI or CURIE

14:39:02 <Steven> Topic: Access

8. Access

14:41:47 <Steven> Gregory: The issue is on the PF agenda today

Gregory Rosmaita: The issue is on the PF agenda today

14:42:01 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0045.html

Gregory Rosmaita: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0045.html

14:42:18 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0044.html

Gregory Rosmaita: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0044.html

14:43:21 <Steven> Gregory: This is a cross-group effort, so it is importnant we get it right in order to do just one review

Gregory Rosmaita: This is a cross-group effort, so it is importnant we get it right in order to do just one review

14:43:38 <Steven> ... it is also a focus of the UA guidelines, and on the agenda this week

... it is also a focus of the UA guidelines, and on the agenda this week

14:44:25 <Steven> Gregory: On the issue of boolena, I may have an answer by the end of today

Gregory Rosmaita: On the issue of boolean, I may have an answer by the end of today

14:44:37 <Steven> ... on the issue of keys, maybe by Friday

... on the issue of keys, maybe by Friday

14:44:52 <Steven> s/boolena/boolean/
14:46:21 <Steven> Roland: Is the ARIA issue solved with HTML5?

Roland Merrick: Is the ARIA issue solved with HTML5?

14:46:26 <Steven> Gregory: Not yet

Gregory Rosmaita: Not yet

14:47:43 <Steven> [ADJOURN]

[ADJOURN]

14:47:48 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

14:47:52 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:47:54 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita

14:47:57 <ShaneM> I fell off the call again.  gotta run.  roland, I will catch you in a few minutes

Shane McCarron: I fell off the call again. gotta run. roland, I will catch you in a few minutes

14:48:08 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:48:09 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

14:48:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Steven, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, Steven, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita

14:48:15 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

14:48:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

14:50:49 <Steven> I will publish them later

I will publish them later

14:50:59 <Roland> ok

Roland Merrick: ok

14:51:11 <Roland> Zakim, please part

Roland Merrick: Zakim, please part



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