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XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 16 January 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0015
Seen
Alessio Cartocci, Gregory Rosmaita, Mark Birbeck, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Toshihiko Yamakami, Unknown yamx
Regrets
Unknown Christine
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Gregory Rosmaita
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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14:00:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc

14:00:38 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public

14:00:46 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml

14:00:47 <Zakim> ok, Steven, I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven, I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM already started

14:00:52 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here?

14:00:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see +386.8.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +386.8.aaaa

14:00:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, alessio, oedipus, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijn

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, alessio, oedipus, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijn

14:01:03 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

14:01:03 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:01:05 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:01:39 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Roland

Steven Pemberton: zakim, aaaa is Roland

14:01:39 <Zakim> +Roland; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland; got it

14:01:45 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

14:02:11 <Steven> zakim, ??P9 is ALessio

Steven Pemberton: zakim, ??P9 is ALessio

14:02:11 <Zakim> +ALessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ALessio; got it

14:02:21 <Steven> zakim, ALessio is Alessio

Steven Pemberton: zakim, ALessio is Alessio

14:02:21 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it

14:02:55 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

14:03:00 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2007-02-Venice-FtF

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2007-02-Venice-FtF

14:03:04 <yamx> zakim, ??P14 is yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: zakim, ??P14 is yamx

14:03:04 <Zakim> +yamx; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yamx; got it

14:05:35 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmiata

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmiata

14:05:51 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, code?

14:05:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

14:06:02 <oedipus> zakim, Gregory_Rosmiata is Gregory_Rosmaita

Gregory Rosmaita: zakim, Gregory_Rosmiata is Gregory_Rosmaita

14:06:02 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita; got it

14:06:09 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0015
14:06:22 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0015

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0015

14:06:28 <Steven> Chair: Roland
14:06:29 <Zakim> + +20876aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +20876aabb

14:06:36 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aabb

Mark Birbeck: zakim, i am aabb

14:06:36 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

14:08:03 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here?

14:08:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, Steven, Alessio, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Roland, Steven, Alessio, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita, markbirbeck

14:08:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, alessio_, yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, oedipus, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijn

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see markbirbeck, alessio_, yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roland, oedipus, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijn

14:08:31 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

14:08:37 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
14:09:13 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

14:09:42 <Roland> Gerrie Shults from HP joining

Roland Merrick: Gerrie Shults from HP joining

14:09:58 <oedipus> SP: 3 announcements: HP joining group again, 2) have at long last a wiki (only one full page) (MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki); 3) made f2f page

Steven Pemberton: 3 announcements: HP joining group again, 2) have at long last a wiki (only one full page) (MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki); 3) made f2f page

14:11:07 <oedipus> SP: third announcement -- yahoo announced last week that new mobile widget platform is based on XForms -- backs up a lot of what we've been saying -- chose so as to enable platform to be directed to as many devices possible, in the most appropriate manner -- in phase one (transitional) but second will use straight XForms

Steven Pemberton: third announcement -- yahoo announced last week that new mobile widget platform is based on XForms -- backs up a lot of what we've been saying -- chose so as to enable platform to be directed to as many devices possible, in the most appropriate manner -- in phase one (transitional) but second will use straight XForms

14:11:22 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/

14:11:25 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2007-02-Venice-FtF

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2007-02-Venice-FtF

14:11:41 <oedipus> RM: Selectors API - anything to report?

Roland Merrick: Selectors API - anything to report?

14:11:42 <Steven> http://mobile.yahoo.com/developers/roadmap

Steven Pemberton: http://mobile.yahoo.com/developers/roadmap

14:12:07 <markbirbeck> Shame that XML will never be used on the web, though. ;)

Mark Birbeck: Shame that XML will never be used on the web, though. ;)

14:12:08 <oedipus> SP: webAPs have almost as many deliverables as we do -- at least 13

Steven Pemberton: webAPs have almost as many deliverables as we do -- at least 13

14:12:18 <oedipus> RM: 2 Web Apps groups going to merge

Roland Merrick: 2 Web Apps groups going to merge

14:12:26 <oedipus> SP: part of review -- who will take up what

Steven Pemberton: part of review -- who will take up what

14:12:39 <Steven> Regrets: Christine

Scribe problem: the name 'Christine' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

14:12:42 <oedipus> RM: Rich not here, so perhaps postpone ARIA issue discussion

Roland Merrick: Rich not here, so perhaps postpone ARIA issue discussion

14:13:01 <oedipus> RM: alessio will update wiki with details for f2f -- everyone planning to attend

Roland Merrick: alessio will update wiki with details for f2f -- everyone planning to attend

14:13:15 <oedipus> [note: everyone on call planning to attend]

[note: everyone on call planning to attend]

14:13:30 <oedipus> AC: IWA Italy (host)

Alessio Cartocci: IWA Italy (host)

14:13:39 <oedipus> Yam: need to know for visa app

Toshihiko Yamakami: need to know for visa app

14:13:51 <oedipus> SP: populate wiki and let yam know

Steven Pemberton: populate wiki and let yam know

14:14:05 <oedipus> ACTION Alessio - add details to f2f wiki page

ACTION Alessio - add details to f2f wiki page

14:14:14 <oedipus> TOPIC: Modularization Transition

1. Modularization Transition

14:14:46 <oedipus> SP: sent an implementation request to RM and Shane -- in status of doc, discovered that still talks about HTML WG rather than XHTML2 WG -- needs change

Steven Pemberton: sent an implementation request to RM and Shane -- in status of doc, discovered that still talks about HTML WG rather than XHTML2 WG -- needs change

14:15:03 <oedipus> SP: will send info to all necessary channels

Steven Pemberton: will send info to all necessary channels

14:15:15 <oedipus> TOPIC: CURIES to Last Call

2. CURIES to Last Call

14:15:33 <oedipus> RM: datatype, etc. discussion at last week's call -- any answers?

Roland Merrick: datatype, etc. discussion at last week's call -- any answers?

14:15:39 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Mar/0038.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Mar/0038.html

14:15:47 <oedipus> SP: difference btw lexical value of CURIE and its value space

Steven Pemberton: difference btw lexical value of CURIE and its value space

14:16:19 <oedipus> SP: my claim is lexical value is as described in spec, value space is just URI -- think mark agreed, but shane dissented, but willing to let it pass

Steven Pemberton: my claim is lexical value is as described in spec, value space is just URI -- think mark agreed, but shane dissented, but willing to let it pass

14:17:21 <oedipus> RM: one more step -- pointing out that in Qnames talk about 2 components (2 seperate parts joined together for purpose) - value space, but alos prior stage when have 2 different parts -- left with mapping to URI plus suffix

Roland Merrick: one more step -- pointing out that in Qnames talk about 2 components (2 seperate parts joined together for purpose) - value space, but alos prior stage when have 2 different parts -- left with mapping to URI plus suffix

14:17:28 <oedipus> SP: why would we need to do that

Steven Pemberton: why would we need to do that

14:17:57 <oedipus> RM: point raised in email, if attempting to be backwards compatible applies to us, too

Roland Merrick: point raised in email, if attempting to be backwards compatible applies to us, too

14:18:12 <oedipus> Shane: posted to list on topic - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0011.html

Shane McCarron: posted to list on topic - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0011.html

14:20:05 <oedipus> SP: my question to mark is - is there any sense in our being backwards compatible with QNames -- problem: 2 CURIES that expand to same URI, but prefix and suffix different -- not case in QName -- if same prefix and suffix there is a one-to-one mapping; don't see value of triples

Steven Pemberton: my question to mark is - is there any sense in our being backwards compatible with QNames -- problem: 2 CURIES that expand to same URI, but prefix and suffix different -- not case in QName -- if same prefix and suffix there is a one-to-one mapping; don't see value of triples

14:21:16 <oedipus> RM: wants us to be clearer on whatever we decide -- we're dealing with specific case of QNames, not a general use of QNames -- if make clearer and say value space final URI cannonized by whatever cannonicalization thing supposed to use to compare 2 CURIES

Roland Merrick: wants us to be clearer on whatever we decide -- we're dealing with specific case of QNames, not a general use of QNames -- if make clearer and say value space final URI cannonized by whatever cannonicalization thing supposed to use to compare 2 CURIES

14:21:24 <oedipus> MB: happy with that if Shane is

Mark Birbeck: happy with that if Shane is

14:21:37 <oedipus> Shane: think i'm happy with that -- please refer to final paragraph

Shane McCarron: think i'm happy with that -- please refer to final paragraph

14:21:52 <oedipus> quote: Note that, as things stand right now, a CURIE used in a document like

Scribe problem: the name 'quote' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown quote: Note that, as things stand right now, a CURIE used in a document like

14:21:52 <oedipus> XHTML+RDFa will NOT be expanded in the DOM.  If you are writing portable

XHTML+RDFa will NOT be expanded in the DOM. If you are writing portable

14:21:52 <oedipus> scripts today, you will need to do that expansion yourself.  I think

scripts today, you will need to do that expansion yourself. I think

14:21:52 <oedipus> that, given Steven and Mark's arguments, you MUST do this expansion if

that, given Steven and Mark's arguments, you MUST do this expansion if

14:21:52 <oedipus> you are going to attempt to do anything with CURIEs in a portable

you are going to attempt to do anything with CURIEs in a portable

14:21:53 <oedipus> script.  If, on the other hand, you are just writing a script for your

script. If, on the other hand, you are just writing a script for your

14:21:55 <oedipus> own content, you could easily operate on the literal values, since you

own content, you could easily operate on the literal values, since you

14:21:57 <oedipus> know what the prefixes and references mean.

know what the prefixes and references mean.

14:22:11 <oedipus> Shane: now, scripts are effecting DOM

Shane McCarron: now, scripts are effecting DOM

14:22:19 <oedipus> RM: crack open and convert to URIs

Roland Merrick: crack open and convert to URIs

14:22:29 <oedipus> Shane: does nothing to help write script looking for roles

Shane McCarron: does nothing to help write script looking for roles

14:23:08 <oedipus> SP: script uses these parsers -- include script and API gives you the different bits; libraries for CURIES that do expansion for you -- don't query DOM to "give me this" but ask the API

Steven Pemberton: script uses these parsers -- include script and API gives you the different bits; libraries for CURIES that do expansion for you -- don't query DOM to "give me this" but ask the API

14:23:33 <oedipus> SP: agree with last paragraph -- not automatically in DOM -- have to construct yourself or use something that constructs it for you

Steven Pemberton: agree with last paragraph -- not automatically in DOM -- have to construct yourself or use something that constructs it for you

14:24:13 <oedipus> [scribe's note -- GJR mistook MB for RM)

[scribe's note -- GJR mistook MB for RM repeatedly)

14:24:23 <oedipus> RM: who will reply to tell what we will do

Roland Merrick: who will reply to tell what we will do

14:24:26 <oedipus> SP: candidates?

Steven Pemberton: candidates?

14:24:34 <oedipus> RM: the 3 people involved in the dialog

Roland Merrick: the 3 people involved in the dialog

14:24:38 <oedipus> Shane: i can do it

Shane McCarron: i can do it

14:24:48 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to add text about expanding CURIEs into URIs in scripting.

ACTION: Shane to add text about expanding CURIEs into URIs in scripting.

14:24:51 <oedipus> SP: definitive reference for transition from IRI to what goes over wire

Steven Pemberton: definitive reference for transition from IRI to what goes over wire

14:25:13 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to respond to submitter of question about value space of CURIEs and their relation to the value space of qnames.

ACTION: Shane to respond to submitter of question about value space of CURIEs and their relation to the value space of qnames.

14:25:21 <Steven> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt

Steven Pemberton: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt

14:25:35 <oedipus> RM: CURIES issue 8010

Roland Merrick: CURIES ISSUE-8010

14:25:54 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JanMar/0051

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JanMar/0051

14:25:58 <oedipus> s/for RM/for RM repeatedly
14:26:53 <oedipus> Shane: we've already done this eight months ago

Shane McCarron: we've already done this eight months ago

14:27:12 <oedipus> RM: final one on list also done?

Roland Merrick: final one on list also done?

14:27:36 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0000

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007AprJun/0000

14:28:12 <oedipus> "When a CURIE is used in an XML grammar, and the prefix on the CURIE is omitted, then the prefix MUST be interpreted as the current default XML namespace."

"When a CURIE is used in an XML grammar, and the prefix on the CURIE is omitted, then the prefix MUST be interpreted as the current default XML namespace."

14:28:42 <oedipus> Shane: was it our intent to remove ambiguity (he says "flexibility") and answer is a resounding YES -- i replied to norm on this

Shane McCarron: was it our intent to remove ambiguity (he says "flexibility") and answer is a resounding YES -- i replied to norm on this

14:29:21 <oedipus> SP: we do mean current namespace (in reference to NormW's last comment) -- must be interpreted as if had prefix of current default XML namespace

Steven Pemberton: we do mean current namespace (in reference to NormW's last comment) -- must be interpreted as if had prefix of current default XML namespace

14:29:39 <oedipus> Shane; draft change so can't have non-prefixed CURIES -- have to define prefix

Shane; draft change so can't have non-prefixed CURIES -- have to define prefix

14:29:41 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-curie-20071126/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-curie-20071126/

14:31:07 <oedipus> "When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI.  A host language MAY provide a mechanism for defining a default prefix value. In such a host language, if the prefix is omitted from a CURIE, the default prefix value is used.  The concatenation of the prefix associated with a CURIE and its reference MUST be an IRI [IRI].  The CURIE prefix '_' is reserved. For this r

"When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI. A host language MAY provide a mechanism for defining a default prefix value. In such a host language, if the prefix is omitted from a CURIE, the default prefix value is used. The concatenation of the prefix associated with a CURIE and its reference MUST be an IRI [IRI]. The CURIE prefix '_' is reserved. For this r

14:31:51 <oedipus> SP: mark, you said we made more flexible

Steven Pemberton: mark, you said we made more flexible

14:32:43 <oedipus> MB: both scenarios XML Schema uses default NS, XSLT uses none -- asking if removed that, we didn't -- if allow host language to define prefix, have SPARQL if not have RDF

Mark Birbeck: both scenarios XML Schema uses default NS, XSLT uses none -- asking if removed that, we didn't -- if allow host language to define prefix, have SPARQL if not have RDF

14:33:40 <oedipus> RM: second question - addressed as well

Mark Birbeck: second question - addressed as well

14:34:17 <oedipus> s/RM: second/MB: second/
14:34:32 <oedipus> "The default prefix? Do you not mean the default namespace?

"The default prefix? Do you not mean the default namespace?

14:34:56 <oedipus> MB: host language MAY is wording

Mark Birbeck: host language MAY is wording

14:35:20 <oedipus> SP: default prefix is issue

Steven Pemberton: default prefix is issue

14:35:44 <oedipus> Shane: if a language mapping permits defaults, it will define mechanism, if not, the language will not permit it

Shane McCarron: if a language mapping permits defaults, it will define mechanism, if not, the language will not permit it

14:36:20 <oedipus> SP: if language doesn't support default prefixes, production for CURIE wrong - prefix not optional

Steven Pemberton: if language doesn't support default prefixes, production for CURIE wrong - prefix not optional

14:36:29 <oedipus> Shane: not really -- syntax still right

Shane McCarron: not really -- syntax still right

14:37:41 <oedipus> MB: some kind of API?  here are a whole lot of mappings, here is a CURIE, please tell me what the IRI is -- host language needs means of hosting and defining the CURIE through API -- language should inhibit the format that it doesn't like and not even call the API

Mark Birbeck: some kind of API? here are a whole lot of mappings, here is a CURIE, please tell me what the IRI is -- host language needs means of hosting and defining the CURIE through API -- language should inhibit the format that it doesn't like and not even call the API

14:38:13 <oedipus> Shane: arbitrary rules for prefix mapping -- can't have generic prefix mapping anyway -- there is no default prefix that is the rule

Shane McCarron: arbitrary rules for prefix mapping -- can't have generic prefix mapping anyway -- there is no default prefix that is the rule

14:39:10 <oedipus> RM: latest editors' draft -- slightly out-of-date compared with RDFa -- perhaps we need to reword

Mark Birbeck: latest editors' draft -- slightly out-of-date compared with RDFa -- perhaps we need to reword

14:39:35 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#s_curies

Mark Birbeck: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#s_curies

14:39:42 <oedipus> Shane: shouldn't be anything generic in RDFa that would cause problem unless something changed in last round of edits, which hasn't been made public

Shane McCarron: shouldn't be anything generic in RDFa that would cause problem unless something changed in last round of edits, which hasn't been made public

14:39:59 <oedipus> s/RM: latest/MB: latest
14:40:01 <oedipus> s/RM: latest/MB: latest/
14:40:38 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:40:38 <oedipus> MB: whether define mapping to use for default prefix and when define way for authors to override that are 2 seperate things

Mark Birbeck: whether define mapping to use for default prefix and when define way for authors to override that are 2 seperate things

14:41:27 <oedipus> MB: need another draft

Mark Birbeck: need another draft

14:41:34 <oedipus> RM: objective is to issue LC draft

Roland Merrick: objective is to issue LC draft

14:41:52 <oedipus> RM: can we get these cleared this week so can make decision to go to LC next week?

Roland Merrick: can we get these cleared this week so can make decision to go to LC next week?

14:41:58 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

14:41:58 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:41:59 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:42:18 <oedipus> MB: cleared -- think specific comments resolved/answered

Mark Birbeck: cleared -- think specific comments resolved/answered

14:42:27 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to reconcile CURIE draft with CURIE RDFa text so the processing model is consistent and the rules about default prefix processing are complete.

ACTION: Shane to reconcile CURIE draft with CURIE RDFa text so the processing model is consistent and the rules about default prefix processing are complete.

14:42:35 <oedipus> RM: draft ready for LC in time to review before next meeting

Roland Merrick: draft ready for LC in time to review before next meeting

14:42:43 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to produce a CURIE last call candidate for next week's call.

ACTION: Shane to produce a CURIE last call candidate for next week's call.

14:43:11 <oedipus> RM: done all can do today on CURIES -- any other issues?

Roland Merrick: done all can do today on CURIES -- any other issues?

14:43:17 <oedipus> [silence]

[silence]

14:43:26 <oedipus> TOPIC: RDFa Module

3. RDFa Module

14:43:57 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0001.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0001.html

14:44:10 <oedipus> RM: first item from last spring

Roland Merrick: first item from last spring

14:44:40 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070402/

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070402/

14:44:48 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0003.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0003.html

14:45:08 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0008.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2007AprJun/0008.html

14:45:13 <oedipus> "Two quick points noted by the CC folks: 1) xmlns still not supported.... darn DTDs, right? What's the path to fixing the W3C validator in this regard? Does it have to be schema-based?  2) it seems the document must be served as application/xhtml+xml... but XHTML 1.1 should be servable as text/html, right? Is there a deeper issue here that I don't understand?"

"Two quick points noted by the CC folks: 1) xmlns still not supported.... darn DTDs, right? What's the path to fixing the W3C validator in this regard? Does it have to be schema-based? 2) it seems the document must be served as application/xhtml+xml... but XHTML 1.1 should be servable as text/html, right? Is there a deeper issue here that I don't understand?"

14:46:11 <oedipus> Shane: done something really clever -- group member took collection of test cases and integrated them into a web page with ajax backend stuff that allows for easy browsing and use of tests -- try to find link for that

Shane McCarron: done something really clever -- group member took collection of test cases and integrated them into a web page with ajax backend stuff that allows for easy browsing and use of tests -- try to find link for that

14:46:40 <oedipus> Shane: decent approach to testing -- i think; don't know how to run tests against RDF

Shane McCarron: decent approach to testing -- i think; don't know how to run tests against RDF

14:46:50 <oedipus> MB: could use extended version of Manu's test suite locally

Mark Birbeck: could use extended version of Manu's test suite locally

14:47:00 <Steven> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

Steven Pemberton: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

14:47:09 <oedipus> Shane: issues resolving references for URIs due to SPARQL queries

Shane McCarron: issues resolving references for URIs due to SPARQL queries

14:47:22 <oedipus> Shene: rules for dealing with test cases?  not normative part of spec

Scribe problem: the name 'Shene' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shene: rules for dealing with test cases? not normative part of spec

14:47:32 <oedipus> SP: no, not normative, but part of transition to PR

Steven Pemberton: no, not normative, but part of transition to PR

14:48:01 <oedipus> SP: issue CR spec with test suite -- here's CR spec, here's test suite, and then use to prove have 2 implementations

Steven Pemberton: issue CR spec with test suite -- here's CR spec, here's test suite, and then use to prove have 2 implementations

14:48:18 <oedipus> Shane: isn't a test suite document -- just bag of tests tell people to use

Shane McCarron: isn't a test suite document -- just bag of tests tell people to use

14:48:31 <oedipus> Shane: should draft reference drafts or part of transition announcement

Shane McCarron: should draft reference drafts or part of transition announcement

14:48:39 <oedipus> SP: part of transition announcement

Steven Pemberton: part of transition announcement

14:48:53 <oedipus> RM: near LC of RDFa

Roland Merrick: near LC of RDFa

14:49:14 <oedipus> Shane: WG needs to approve LC draft once there is a document --some strange outstanding issues that need to be resolved

Shane McCarron: WG needs to approve LC draft once there is a document --some strange outstanding issues that need to be resolved

14:49:45 <oedipus> RM: none of items on list for modularization are still pertinent, but will look through

Roland Merrick: none of items on list for modularization are still pertinent, but will look through

14:50:30 <oedipus> Shane: they are ALL closed off; implementation report, as part of most recent draft produced last week (thought would use for CR request)

Shane McCarron: they are ALL closed off; implementation report, as part of most recent draft produced last week (thought would use for CR request)

14:50:32 <oedipus> SP: i did

Steven Pemberton: i did

14:51:04 <oedipus> Shane: updated M12n candidate for CR transition -- you refer to last editors' draft, but that's not what we are pushing for CR

Shane McCarron: updated M12n candidate for CR transition -- you refer to last editors' draft, but that's not what we are pushing for CR

14:51:40 <oedipus> Shane: only thing changed recently is "prose versus implementation" -- should add text to clarify there is a prose spec and implementations, if inconsistencies, prose wins

Shane McCarron: only thing changed recently is "prose versus implementation" -- should add text to clarify there is a prose spec and implementations, if inconsistencies, prose wins

14:52:04 <oedipus> Shane: didn't agree to change MUST to SHOULD in M12n, just Role

Shane McCarron: didn't agree to change MUST to SHOULD in M12n, just Role

14:52:13 <oedipus> RM: not my recollection

Roland Merrick: not my recollection

14:53:00 <oedipus> Shane: changed in role and considered changing in access; argued that can't change in M12n -- no one thought of implications of importing all attributes in a namespace

Shane McCarron: changed in role and considered changing in access; argued that can't change in M12n -- no one thought of implications of importing all attributes in a namespace

14:53:11 <oedipus> RM: think discussed in november

Roland Merrick: think discussed in november

14:53:36 <oedipus> RM: relaxed constraint for Role for ARIA

Roland Merrick: relaxed constraint for Role for ARIA

14:53:40 <oedipus> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes

14:53:51 <oedipus> Shane: agree we would do in role, but not in M12n

Shane McCarron: agree we would do in role, but not in M12n

14:54:26 <oedipus> RM: have to change in M12n -- could be interpreted as change that could push back to LC -- will try and find pointer

Roland Merrick: have to change in M12n -- could be interpreted as change that could push back to LC -- will try and find pointer

14:54:32 <oedipus> GJR: think on second day of f2f

Gregory Rosmaita: think on second day of f2f

14:55:19 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/09-xhtml-minutes

http://www.w3.org/2007/11/09-xhtml-minutes

14:55:39 <oedipus> Shane: not even sure where to change

Shane McCarron: not even sure where to change

14:56:00 <oedipus> quote: <markbirbeck> When @role appears without a namespace in another language, it is because that language has added it to its own language. Just like @class in SVG is *not* @class in HTML, but they have given it the same semantics to make it easier for people to use

Scribe problem: the name 'quote' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown quote: <markbirbeck> When @role appears without a namespace in another language, it is because that language has added it to its own language. Just like @class in SVG is *not* @class in HTML, but they have given it the same semantics to make it easier for people to use

14:56:22 <oedipus> quote: Steven: I would prefer just one, with an ENglish sentence "Rule 3.1.5 of modularization does not apply to this attribute" or somesuch

Scribe problem: the name 'quote' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown quote: Steven: I would prefer just one, with an ENglish sentence "Rule 3.1.5 of modularization does not apply to this attribute" or somesuch

14:56:22 <oedipus> Roland: Good

Roland Merrick: Good

14:56:42 <oedipus> [scribe's note - Roland's comment "good" from minutes

[scribe's note - Roland's comment "good" from minutes

14:57:03 <Zakim> -??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P18

14:57:07 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio

14:57:08 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

14:57:10 <oedipus> rssagent, draft minutes

rssagent, draft minutes

14:57:10 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:57:11 <Zakim> -yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 21 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -yamx

14:57:12 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:57:29 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita

14:57:30 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has ended

14:57:31 <Zakim> Attendees were +386.8.aaaa, Steven, Roland, Alessio, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita, +20876aabb, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +386.8.aaaa, Steven, Roland, Alessio, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita, +20876aabb, markbirbeck

14:58:06 <oedipus> rssagent, draft minutes

rssagent, draft minutes

14:58:18 <oedipus> zakim, please part

zakim, please part

14:58:50 <ShaneM> steven.... M12N says this: <p>Each of the attributes defined in an XHTML attribute collection

Shane McCarron: steven.... M12N says this: <p>Each of the attributes defined in an XHTML attribute collection

14:58:50 <ShaneM> is available for use when

Shane McCarron: is available for use when

14:58:50 <ShaneM> their corresponding module is included in an XHTML Host Language or an

Shane McCarron: their corresponding module is included in an XHTML Host Language or an

14:58:50 <ShaneM> XHTML Integration Set. In such a

Shane McCarron: XHTML Integration Set. In such a

14:58:50 <ShaneM> situation, the attributes are available for use in the definition

Shane McCarron: situation, the attributes are available for use in the definition

14:58:51 <ShaneM> of elements that are NOT

Shane McCarron: of elements that are NOT

14:58:53 <ShaneM> in the XHTML namespace when they are referenced using their

Shane McCarron: in the XHTML namespace when they are referenced using their

14:58:55 <ShaneM> namespace-qualified identifier (e.g., <code>xhtml:class</code>).

Shane McCarron: namespace-qualified identifier (e.g., <code>xhtml:class</code>).

14:58:57 <ShaneM> The semantics of the attributes remain the same regardless of whether

Shane McCarron: The semantics of the attributes remain the same regardless of whether

14:58:59 <ShaneM> they are referenced using their qualified identifier or not.

Shane McCarron: they are referenced using their qualified identifier or not.

14:59:01 <ShaneM> <strong>It is an error to use an XHTML namespace-qualified attribute on elements from the XHTML Namespace.</strong>

Shane McCarron: <strong>It is an error to use an XHTML namespace-qualified attribute on elements from the XHTML Namespace.</strong>

14:59:04 <ShaneM> </p>

Shane McCarron: </p>

14:59:05 <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes

rrsagent, publish minutes

14:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:59:06 <ShaneM> or roland.   Is that where you think there should be a change?

Shane McCarron: or roland. Is that where you think there should be a change?

14:59:13 <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes

rrsagent, publish minutes

14:59:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:59:29 <Steven> Thanks Gegory!

Steven Pemberton: Thanks Gegory!

14:59:36 <Steven> Gregory

Steven Pemberton: Gregory

14:59:40 <oedipus> no problem, steven!

no problem, steven!

14:59:52 <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
14:59:55 <oedipus> present+ Shane_McCarron

present+ Shane_McCarron

15:00:03 <oedipus> present+ Mark_Birbeck

present+ Mark_Birbeck

15:00:15 <oedipus> present- aaaa

present- aaaa

15:00:20 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes

15:00:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

15:00:25 <oedipus> present- aabb

present- aabb

15:00:32 <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes

rrsagent, publish minutes

15:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:00:54 <oedipus> steven, are you going to push the minutes -- it's no bother to me if i do

steven, are you going to push the minutes -- it's no bother to me if i do

15:01:09 <Steven> As you like

Steven Pemberton: As you like

15:01:18 <Steven> If you volunteer :-)

Steven Pemberton: If you volunteer :-)

15:01:32 <oedipus> aye, aye, cap'n!

aye, aye, cap'n!

15:01:51 <oedipus> present- [+386.8.aaaa]

present- [+386.8.aaaa]

15:02:32 <oedipus> steven, do you know to whom the mystery numbers belong?

steven, do you know to whom the mystery numbers belong?

15:02:40 <oedipus> rrsagent, publish minutes

rrsagent, publish minutes

15:02:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

15:03:02 <Steven> Don't worry about it Gregory

Steven Pemberton: Don't worry about it Gregory

15:03:07 <Steven> Zakim getting confused

Steven Pemberton: Zakim getting confused

15:03:08 <oedipus> i think  the atendees list is fille anyway

i think the atendees list is fille anyway

15:03:15 <oedipus> thank

thank

15:03:18 <oedipus> er, thanks

er, thanks

15:03:39 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part

rrsagent, please part

15:03:39 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-actions.rdf :

15:03:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to add text about expanding CURIEs into URIs in scripting.  [1]

ACTION: Shane to add text about expanding CURIEs into URIs in scripting. [1]

15:03:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-24-48

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-24-48

15:03:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to respond to submitter of question about value space of CURIEs and their relation to the value space of qnames.  [2]

ACTION: Shane to respond to submitter of question about value space of CURIEs and their relation to the value space of qnames. [2]

15:03:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-25-13

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-25-13

15:03:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to reconcile CURIE draft with CURIE RDFa text so the processing model is consistent and the rules about default prefix processing are complete.  [3]

ACTION: Shane to reconcile CURIE draft with CURIE RDFa text so the processing model is consistent and the rules about default prefix processing are complete. [3]

15:03:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-42-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-42-27

15:03:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to produce a CURIE last call candidate for next week's call.  [4]

ACTION: Shane to produce a CURIE last call candidate for next week's call. [4]

15:03:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-42-43

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-xhtml-irc#T14-42-43



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