Meeting Record

XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 28 November 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043

Seen

Alessio Cartocci, Mark Birbeck, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Toshihiko Yamakami, Unknown CSB, Unknown Gregory_Rosmaita, Unknown oedipus, Unknown yamx

Regrets

Chair

Scribe

IRC Log

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Calls over the holiday period
Announcements
Testing of XHTML Basic 1.1
Title issue (RDFa vs Role)
TAG role comment
Events2 Comment (Purpose)
CURIEs

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14:02:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-irc ←

14:02:11 <Steven> zakim, room for 10?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, room for 10? ←

14:02:13 <Zakim> ok, Steven; conference Team_(xhtml)14:02Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1502Z

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; conference Team_(xhtml)14:02Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1502Z ←

14:02:17 <Steven> NOTE CODE

Steven Pemberton: NOTE CODE ←

14:02:21 <Zakim> Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has now started ←

14:02:22 <Steven> CONF2

Steven Pemberton: CONF2 ←

14:02:29 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

14:02:30 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

14:02:30 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

14:02:31 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

14:03:00 <oedipus> first time, "call has not yet started" -- second time "invalid conference code"

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: first time, "call has not yet started" -- second time "invalid conference code" ←

14:03:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public ←

14:03:11 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←

14:03:15 <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

14:03:18 <ShaneM> use the code 26632

Shane McCarron: use the code 26632 ←

14:03:46 <oedipus> thanks shane -- too many aural streams at once...

Unknown oedipus: thanks shane -- too many aural streams at once... ←

14:03:46 <Steven> Chair: Roland

14:03:51 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

14:04:17 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043

14:04:25 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:04:47 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Code 26632; Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043

Steven has changed the topic to: Code 26632; Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0043 ←

14:05:18 <Steven> --> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes

--> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes ←

14:05:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

14:05:56 <Steven> Regrets: MarkB

14:06:15 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here? ←

14:06:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, +013868aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Steven, +013868aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:06:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Roland, myakura, ShaneM, Lachy, Steven, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see yamx, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Roland, myakura, ShaneM, Lachy, Steven, krijnh ←

14:06:32 <yamx> The call returned "conference is restricted at this time", what is it?

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: The call returned "conference is restricted at this time", what is it? ←

14:06:33 <Steven> zakim, +0 is Roland

zakim, +0 is Roland ←

14:06:34 <Zakim> +Roland; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland; got it ←

14:08:44 <Steven> Topic: Calls over the holiday period

1. Calls over the holiday period

14:09:04 <Steven> Roland: I'm not here the 26th

Roland Merrick: I'm not here the 26th ←

14:09:21 <Steven> Steven: I'm away for December

Steven Pemberton: I'm away for December ←

14:09:22 <Rich> I am being told the conference is restricted

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I am being told the conference is restricted ←

14:09:30 <Steven> Rich, note new code

Rich, note new code ←

14:09:38 <Steven> 26632

26632 ←

14:09:48 <Steven> Roland: Call OK for next week

Roland Merrick: Call OK for next week ←

14:09:49 <oedipus> GJR: no problem with call on december 19

Scribe problem: the name 'GJR' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown GJR: no problem with call on december 19 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:09:53 <Steven> Roiland: 19th OK?

Scribe problem: the name 'Roiland' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Roiland: 19th OK? ←

14:10:00 <Steven> ... Ok we assume the 19th is OK

... Ok we assume the 19th is OK ←

14:10:05 <Steven> ... no call on the 26th

... no call on the 26th ←

14:10:39 <oedipus> boxing day the only skipped date?

Unknown oedipus: boxing day the only skipped date? ←

14:10:43 <Steven> ... we resume on the 2nd?

... we resume on the 2nd? ←

14:10:56 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←

14:11:01 <Steven> ... so we miss just one week, the 26th of December

... so we miss just one week, the 26th of December ←

14:11:38 <Steven> zakim, +[ is Rich

zakim, +[ is Rich ←

14:11:38 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+['

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+[' ←

14:11:46 <Steven> zakim, [ is Rich

zakim, [ is Rich ←

14:11:46 <Zakim> +Rich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rich; got it ←

14:12:04 <Steven> Roland: I will do agendas for this month

Roland Merrick: I will do agendas for this month ←

14:12:16 <Steven> Steven: I will be around in case of need (for instance transition calls)

Steven Pemberton: I will be around in case of need (for instance transition calls) ←

14:12:35 <Steven> Topic: Announcements

2. Announcements

14:12:52 <Steven> Roland: We produced a new draft of CURIEs last week

Roland Merrick: We produced a new draft of CURIEs last week ←

14:13:22 <Steven> ... and we have a request outstanding for FPWD of Access

... and we have a request outstanding for FPWD of Access ←

14:13:31 <alessio> hi... sorry I'm late, is it possible to join actually?

Alessio Cartocci: hi... sorry I'm late, is it possible to join actually? ←

14:13:41 <Steven> yes, see topic Alessio

yes, see topic Alessio ←

14:13:45 <Steven> different code

different code ←

14:13:54 <alessio> ahhhhh tanks ;)

Alessio Cartocci: ahhhhh tanks ;) ←

14:13:56 <Steven> Roland: And ITS review?

Roland Merrick: And ITS review? ←

14:14:00 <Steven> Shane: We are happy with it

Shane McCarron: We are happy with it ←

14:14:05 <alessio> thanks

Alessio Cartocci: thanks ←

14:14:11 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to send ITS review (=thanksyou, it's fine)

ACTION: Steven to send ITS review (=thankyou, it's fine) ←

14:14:19 <Steven> Topic: Testing of XHTML Basic 1.1

3. Testing of XHTML Basic 1.1

14:14:29 <markbirbeck> Hello all...first I apologise for forgetting that we are an hour earlier this week, but second, I won't be able to make it, since a meeting has come up for 2.30pm, so I'm leaving the office now. All the best.

Mark Birbeck: Hello all...first I apologise for forgetting that we are an hour earlier this week, but second, I won't be able to make it, since a meeting has come up for 2.30pm, so I'm leaving the office now. All the best. ←

14:14:33 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←

14:14:47 <Steven> zakim, ??P13 is Alessio

zakim, ??P13 is Alessio ←

14:14:47 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←

14:14:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

14:15:21 <yamx> P13 is yamx, I think.

Unknown yamx: P13 is yamx, I think. ←

14:15:24 <Steven> Zakim, Alessio is Yam

Zakim, Alessio is Yam ←

14:15:24 <Zakim> +Yam; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yam; got it ←

14:15:25 <alessio> yes

Alessio Cartocci: yes ←

14:15:32 <Steven> zakim, [IP is Alessio

zakim, [IP is Alessio ←

14:15:32 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←

14:16:27 <Steven> Roland: Yam, are you able to report on this now?

Roland Merrick: Yam, are you able to report on this now? ←

14:16:54 <Steven> Yam: At least my colleague is testing inputmode, so it is on the way

Toshihiko Yamakami: At least my colleague is testing inputmode, so it is on the way ←

14:17:01 <Steven> Roland: When might it be done?

Roland Merrick: When might it be done? ←

14:17:06 <Steven> Yam: Next week I think

Toshihiko Yamakami: Next week I think ←

14:17:19 <Steven> Steven: That's good news

Steven Pemberton: That's good news ←

14:17:40 <Steven> Yam: I think we are on schedule with the implementation

Toshihiko Yamakami: I think we are on schedule with the implementation ←

14:18:00 <Steven> ... the team spotted two errors, and are fixing that

... the team spotted two errors, and are fixing that ←

14:18:26 <Steven> ... all three test cases are tested in out technical team

... all three test cases are tested in our technical team ←

14:18:33 <Steven> s/out/our/

14:18:53 <Steven> s/thanksyou/thankyou/

14:19:04 <Steven> Topic: Title issue (RDFa vs Role)

4. Title issue (RDFa vs Role)

14:19:21 <oedipus> GJR: RDFa versus Role to be discussed at today's telecon

Unknown GJR: RDFa versus Role to be discussed at today's telecon [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:19:25 <Steven> Roland: There was going to be a followup meeting on this

Roland Merrick: There was going to be a followup meeting on this ←

14:20:32 <Steven> Steven: Rich, what is your take on the current opinions in the PF about the use of role for title?

Steven Pemberton: Rich, what is your take on the current opinions in the PF about the use of role for title? ←

14:20:43 <Steven> Rich: Well, clearly title isn't a unique thing

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Well, clearly title isn't a unique thing ←

14:20:54 <Steven> ... since it may apply to many sections

... since it may apply to many sections ←

14:21:26 <Steven> ... it hasn't been proven to me why you need a title element for sections and the whole document

... it hasn't been proven to me why you need a title element for sections and the whole document ←

14:21:34 <Steven> ... maybe because of iframe

... maybe because of iframe ←

14:23:05 <Steven> Steven: So we have a way to do that, the property element equal to dc:title

Steven Pemberton: So we have a way to do that, the property attribute equal to dc:title ←

14:23:18 <Steven> s/element/attribute/

14:23:42 <Steven> ... <h1 property="dc:title">My life</h1>

... <h1 property="dc:title">My life</h1> ←

14:24:09 <Steven> Rick: We also have labelledby

Richard Schwerdtfeger: We also have labelledby ←

14:24:15 <Steven> s/Rick/Rich/

14:24:20 <ShaneM>  Note that the RDFa spec does not say that something with a property of dc:title is the same as / overrides the title element.

Shane McCarron: Note that the RDFa spec does not say that something with a property of dc:title is the same as / overrides the title element. ←

14:24:35 <oedipus> GJR: labelledby for today, RDFa for next round

Unknown GJR: labelledby for today, RDFa for next round [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:25:46 <Steven> Steven: I agree that role is the wrong way to do it

Steven Pemberton: I agree that role is the wrong way to do it ←

14:25:55 <Steven> ... but the use case is still covered

... but the use case is still covered ←

14:26:12 <Steven> Roland: SO the short term goal is role, and the long term goal is RDFa

Roland Merrick: So the short term goal is role, and the long term goal is RDFa ←

14:26:16 <Steven> s/SO/So/

14:26:38 <oedipus> GJR: short term goal is "labelledby" (ARIA syntax); long term goal is to use RDFa and explore means of communicating RDFa to Assistive Technologies

Unknown GJR: short term goal is "labelledby" (ARIA syntax); long term goal is to use RDFa and explore means of communicating RDFa to Assistive Technologies [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:27:26 <Steven> Steven: You can also say <h2 about="#section3" property="dc:title">Future tasks</h2>

Steven Pemberton: You can also say <h2 about="#section3" property="dc:title">Future tasks</h2> ←

14:27:56 <Steven> ... which says what the title is for some subsection

... which says what the title is for some subsection ←

14:28:05 <oedipus> original example: <h1>Record #35793: <span property="dc:title">Title of Document or Sub-Document or portion of document</span></h1>

Unknown oedipus: original example: <h1>Record #35793: <span property="dc:title">Title of Document or Sub-Document or portion of document</span></h1> ←

14:28:17 <oedipus> thread starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html

Unknown oedipus: thread starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html ←

14:28:26 <Steven> ROland: If we are happy, let's move on

Roland Merrick: If we are happy, let's move on ←

14:28:31 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/

14:28:33 <Rich> short term solution: <div role="secondary" aria-labelledby="26">

Richard Schwerdtfeger: short term solution: <div role="secondary" aria-labelledby="26"> ←

14:28:33 <Rich> <div role="header" id="26:>Last week's News Stories</div>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <div role="header" id="26:>Last week's News Stories</div> ←

14:28:33 <Rich> </div>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: </div> ←

14:28:33 <Rich> <.div>

Richard Schwerdtfeger: <.div> ←

14:29:44 <oedipus> aria- is what has been implemented so far -- Jon Gunderson still using aria: in some examples

Unknown oedipus: aria- is what has been implemented so far -- Jon Gunderson still using aria: in some examples ←

14:30:36 <oedipus> aria- being pushed by implementors/developers -- not a patient lot -- don't care about standardization, but product delivery

Unknown oedipus: aria- being pushed by implementors/developers -- not a patient lot -- don't care about standardization, but product delivery ←

14:30:41 <Rich> aria:aria-labelledby

Scribe problem: the name 'aria' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown aria: aria-labelledby [ Scribe Assist by Richard Schwerdtfeger ] ←

14:31:51 <oedipus> +1 to Tina's observation about using DIV to substitute for semantically meaningful markup (theory, i suppose, is that ARIA makes it semantically meaningful, but that is a strawman, in my opinion

Unknown oedipus: +1 to Tina's observation about using DIV to substitute for semantically meaningful markup (theory, i suppose, is that ARIA makes it semantically meaningful, but that is a strawman, in my opinion ←

14:34:35 <oedipus> extensibility for all but those who don't want it (HTML5 devs) -- SVG integration into HTML5 may be made redundant if CANVAS carries

Unknown oedipus: extensibility for all but those who don't want it (HTML5 devs) -- SVG integration into HTML5 may be made redundant if CANVAS carries ←

14:39:37 <Steven> Steven: I don't think that the aria attributes should be chameleon

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Steven Pemberton: I don't think that the aria attributes should be chameleon ←

14:40:32 <Steven> ... you want them to work everywhere, without changing the languages

... you want them to work everywhere, without changing the languages ←

14:40:43 <Steven> Shane: Well, why is role chameleon then?

Shane McCarron: Well, why is role chameleon then? ←

14:41:05 <Steven> Shane: Language designers can decide for themselves

Shane McCarron: Language designers can decide for themselves ←

14:44:08 <Steven> Topic: TAG role comment

5. TAG role comment

14:44:12 <Steven> Roland: THis is ongoing

Roland Merrick: THis is ongoing ←

14:44:18 <Steven> ... I still have to do the response to them

... I still have to do the response to them ←

14:44:31 <Steven> Topic: Events2 Comment (Purpose)

6. Events2 Comment (Purpose)

14:44:47 <Steven> Rich: We need a description of the handler

Richard Schwerdtfeger: We need a description of the handler ←

14:44:50 <oedipus> DanC keeps reiterating that "NOTHING" has been decided; there has been, however a "formal survey" on immediate role graphics and CANVAS

Unknown oedipus: DanC keeps reiterating that "NOTHING" has been decided; there has been, however a "formal survey" on immediate role graphics and CANVAS ←

14:45:03 <Steven> (which will become the first decision)

(which will become the first decision) ←

14:45:08 <oedipus> right

Unknown oedipus: right ←

14:45:25 <Steven> Rich: And <purpose> was there for that

Richard Schwerdtfeger: And <purpose> was there for that ←

14:46:53 <oedipus> Steve: handler specs, purpose element -- strictly speaking with so many types of handlers, good to have solution that addresses that as well; idea of purpose description is very good one -- if can find way to do it; Mark suggested role, i can envision using RDFa to pass description of handler (metadata in a way)

Steven Pemberton: handler specs, purpose element -- strictly speaking with so many types of handlers, good to have solution that addresses that as well; idea of purpose description is very good one -- if can find way to do it; Mark suggested role, i can envision using RDFa to pass description of handler (metadata in a way) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:47:16 <oedipus> RS: place to put text, associate text with handler via RDFa -- mechanism to put actual text in handler?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: place to put text, associate text with handler via RDFa -- mechanism to put actual text in handler? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:47:46 <oedipus> Rich: liked Roland's proposal -- similar to solution for XForms

Richard Schwerdtfeger: liked Roland's proposal -- similar to solution for XForms [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:48:19 <oedipus> Roland: why not provide information - this is a label, this is what it does, hint can be obtained on user request (tell me more about this)

Roland Merrick: why not provide information - this is a label, this is what it does, hint can be obtained on user request (tell me more about this) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:48:29 <oedipus> Steve: label in relation to handler?

Steven Pemberton: label in relation to handler? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:48:38 <oedipus> Rich: don't see how label fits for handler

Richard Schwerdtfeger: don't see how label fits for handler [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:48:56 <oedipus> Roland: if here is a trigger and this is the handler for it, could get label from handler

Roland Merrick: if here is a trigger and this is the handler for it, could get label from handler [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:49:02 <oedipus> Steve: have to think about that

Steven Pemberton: have to think about that [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:49:36 <oedipus> Roland: have as many as want in UI - don't have to write twice; and can get supporting materials

Roland Merrick: have as many as want in UI - don't have to write twice; and can get supporting materials [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:49:42 <oedipus> Rich: XML Events -- how to do?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: XML Events -- how to do? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:49:50 <oedipus> Roland: can still have element as child of handler

Roland Merrick: can still have element as child of handler [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:50:05 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0027.html

Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0027.html ←

14:50:29 <Roland> <action id="doThat">

Roland Merrick: <action id="doThat"> ←

14:50:30 <Roland>   <label>Do That</label>

Roland Merrick: <label>Do That</label> ←

14:50:30 <Roland>   <hint>performing this action will delight you.</hint>.

Roland Merrick: <hint>performing this action will delight you.</hint>. ←

14:50:30 <Roland>   <script type="application/x-javascript">

Roland Merrick: <script type="application/x-javascript"> ←

14:50:30 <Roland>    doactivate(event);

Roland Merrick: doactivate(event); ←

14:50:31 <Roland>   </script>

Roland Merrick: </script> ←

14:50:33 <Roland> </action>

Roland Merrick: </action> ←

14:51:04 <Steven> Shane: Any of this is fine

Shane McCarron: Any of this is fine ←

14:51:16 <Steven> ... only as long as we don't overengineer it

... only as long as we don't overengineer it ←

14:51:34 <Steven> Roland: No one says we have to do all three

Roland Merrick: No one says we have to do all three ←

14:51:38 <Steven> ... but in XForms we do

... but in XForms we do ←

14:51:46 <Steven> ... a label for the UI layer

... a label for the UI layer ←

14:51:50 <oedipus> q+

Unknown oedipus: q+ ←

14:52:07 <Steven> Shane: WHat is the UA requirement for a label

Shane McCarron: What is the UA requirement for a label? ←

14:52:20 <Steven> Roland: That it is presented to the user

Roland Merrick: That it is presented to the user ←

14:52:24 <Steven> s/WH/Wh/

14:52:34 <Steven> s/label/label?/

14:52:45 <oedipus> GJR: can use "prolog" in ARIA concept to provide richer, fuller human-understandable information about specifics of choice (if choice available)

Unknown GJR: can use "prolog" in ARIA concept to provide richer, fuller human-understandable information about specifics of choice (if choice available) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:52:55 <Steven> Shane: If I have a span

Shane McCarron: If I have a span ←

14:53:04 <Steven> ... and associate an access key with it

... and associate an access key with it ←

14:53:21 <Steven> ... and a handler that is invoked by that key

... and a handler that is invoked by that key ←

14:53:36 <Steven> ... if the handler has a label, how does that get manifested?

... if the handler has a label, how does that get manifested? ←

14:53:45 <Steven> Roland: I don't think it does

Roland Merrick: I don't think it does ←

14:53:51 <Steven> Shane: OK, good

Shane McCarron: OK, good ←

14:54:32 <Steven> Rich: So do we need all 3 in XML Events2?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: So do we need all 3 in XML Events2? ←

14:54:45 <Steven> Roland: Well, I was suggesting su=ynergy with stuff we have already

Roland Merrick: Well, I was suggesting synergy with stuff we have already ←

14:54:50 <Steven> ... you don't HAVE to use them

... you don't HAVE to use them ←

14:55:01 <Steven> s/su=/s/

14:55:08 <Steven> Rich: I see, fine

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I see, fine ←

14:55:21 <Steven> ... I see a way of mapping it to the accessibility API

... I see a way of mapping it to the accessibility API ←

14:55:53 <Steven> Gregory: See my comment abouyt 'prologg' in aria

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: See my comment about 'prolog' in aria ←

14:55:58 <Steven> s/yt/t/

14:56:03 <Steven> s/gg/g/

14:56:08 <Steven> ... above

... above ←

14:56:33 <ShaneM>  So I think what I need to do is steal the label, hint, and help elements from XForms and put them into XML Events 2?

Shane McCarron: So I think what I need to do is steal the label, hint, and help elements from XForms and put them into XML Events 2? ←

14:56:33 <Steven> Rich: If we had a declarative model, like XForms data model, we could do this all a lot easier

Richard Schwerdtfeger: If we had a declarative model, like XForms data model, we could do this all a lot easier ←

14:57:02 <Steven> Roland: So I'm saying XForms, and therefore XHTML2 has this already, so why not reuse it rather than reinventing stuff

Roland Merrick: So I'm saying XForms, and therefore XHTML2 has this already, so why not reuse it rather than reinventing stuff ←

14:57:22 <Steven> Shand: DO you mean add it to handlers?

Shane McCarron: Do you mean add it to handlers? ←

14:57:26 <Steven> Roland: Yes

Roland Merrick: Yes ←

14:57:32 <Steven> s/DO?Do/

s/DO?Do/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

14:57:33 <oedipus> +1 add to handlers and reuse in XForms

Unknown oedipus: +1 add to handlers and reuse in XForms ←

14:57:36 <Steven> s/DO/Do/

14:57:38 <alessio> +1

Alessio Cartocci: +1 ←

14:58:13 <Steven> s/Shand/Shane/

14:58:18 <Steven> ack oe

ack oe ←

14:58:58 <Steven> Rich: So we'll be using XML Evbents2 in XHTML2?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: So we'll be using XML Evbents2 in XHTML2? ←

14:58:58 <ShaneM>  +q

Shane McCarron: +q ←

14:59:14 <Steven> Steven: That is the plan, but there is an overlap with XForms,which still uses XML Events 1

Steven Pemberton: That is the plan, but there is an overlap with XForms,which still uses XML Events 1 ←

14:59:22 <Steven> ... and we will use XForms 1.1

... and we will use XForms 1.1 ←

15:00:10 <Steven> Rich: XHTML2 is not fully supported in the browser, and there is HTML, we are looking at a dual timeline in the WAI area

Richard Schwerdtfeger: XHTML2 is not fully supported in the browser, and there is HTML, we are looking at a dual timeline in the WAI area ←

15:00:21 <Steven> Sack Sh

Sack Sh ←

15:00:26 <Steven> ack sh

ack sh ←

15:00:34 <Steven> Topic: CURIEs

7. CURIEs

15:00:46 <Steven> Shane: I would like to go to last call in 2 weeks on CURIEs

Shane McCarron: I would like to go to last call in 2 weeks on CURIEs ←

15:00:52 <Steven> ... just to push the fight

... just to push the fight ←

15:01:24 <Steven> ... we can deal with the comments

... we can deal with the comments ←

15:01:35 <Steven> Steven: Length?

Steven Pemberton: Length? ←

15:01:43 <Steven> Roland: TIll late January

Roland Merrick: TIll late January ←

15:01:48 <Steven> ... for the ftf

... for the ftf ←

15:01:53 <Steven> Shane: 6 or 7 weeks

Shane McCarron: 6 or 7 weeks ←

15:02:10 <Steven> Steven: Any objections

Steven Pemberton: Any objections ←

15:02:22 <Steven> Shane: I will prepare a draft for next week's call

Shane McCarron: I will prepare a draft for next week's call ←

15:02:36 <Steven> Steven: Will put on the agenda

Steven Pemberton: Will put on the agenda ←

15:02:50 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

15:02:51 <Zakim> -Rich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rich ←

15:02:52 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

15:02:54 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←

15:02:55 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory_Rosmaita' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

15:02:55 <Zakim> -Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←

15:02:56 <Zakim> Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(xhtml)14:02Z has ended ←

15:02:57 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, [IBM], Rich, [IPcaller], Yam, Alessio

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ShaneM, Steven, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, [IBM], Rich, [IPcaller], Yam, Alessio ←

15:03:05 <Steven> ACTION: Roland put last call of CURIES on next week's agenda

ACTION: Roland put last call of CURIES on next week's agenda ←

15:03:17 <Steven> ACTION: SHane prepare a new draft of CURIES for next week

ACTION: Shane prepare a new draft of CURIES for next week ←

15:03:24 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/G

15:03:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:03:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

15:04:02 <Steven> Present+Tina(remote)

Present+Tina(remote) ←

15:04:06 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/28-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

15:14:08 <CSB> hi, steve?

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(No events recorded for 10 minutes)

Unknown CSB: hi, steve? ←

15:16:44 <Steven> Me?

Me? ←

15:16:58 <Steven> Hi Christina

Hi Christina ←

15:17:07 <Steven> now I realise who you are :-)

now I realise who you are :-) ←

15:17:19 <CSB> :)

Unknown CSB: :) ←

15:17:45 <CSB> didn't see any traffic and wanted to check that my setup was correct.

Unknown CSB: didn't see any traffic and wanted to check that my setup was correct. ←

15:18:16 <Steven> Oops. We decided to move the call an hour earlier, for the sake of our Japanese colleagues

Oops. We decided to move the call an hour earlier, for the sake of our Japanese colleagues ←

15:18:28 <Steven> Did you not see the traffic around that?

Did you not see the traffic around that? ←

15:18:44 <CSB> one hour earlier than the 1400utc in the agenda?

Unknown CSB: one hour earlier than the 1400utc in the agenda? ←

15:18:58 <Steven> No, 14:00UTC is right

No, 14:00UTC is right ←

15:19:06 <Steven> it is now 15:18 UTC

it is now 15:18 UTC ←

15:19:09 <CSB> I thought the adgenda time would have taken that into account?

Unknown CSB: I thought the adgenda time would have taken that into account? ←

15:19:32 <CSB> really, my converter said 1400utc was 10 am Atlantic. Ugh

Unknown CSB: really, my converter said 1400utc was 10 am Atlantic. Ugh ←

15:20:03 <CSB> well, maybe we can talk about the best way to give spec feedback?

Unknown CSB: well, maybe we can talk about the best way to give spec feedback? ←

15:20:34 <Steven> sure

sure ←

15:21:40 <CSB> I was thinking notes corresponding to the section numbers.

Unknown CSB: I was thinking notes corresponding to the section numbers. ←

15:22:41 <Steven> Sounds perfect

Sounds perfect ←

15:23:04 <Steven> Every section has it's own URL, so quoting that and then the comments would help the editors

Every section has its own URL, so quoting that and then the comments would help the editors ←

15:23:12 <Steven> s/it's/its/

15:23:20 <Steven> (I hate people who do that :-) )

(I hate people who do that :-) ) ←

15:23:25 <CSB> :)

Unknown CSB: :) ←

15:23:31 <CSB> I can do that.

Unknown CSB: I can do that. ←

15:23:52 <CSB> and the correct version of the spec that I should look at is at?

Unknown CSB: and the correct version of the spec that I should look at is at? ←

15:25:27 <Steven> the latest editor's draft

the latest editor's draft ←

15:25:29 <CSB> and I think we said before it was better to give feedback in stages

Unknown CSB: and I think we said before it was better to give feedback in stages ←

15:25:32 <Steven> see:

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Unknown see: ←

15:25:46 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml2

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml2 ←

15:26:12 <Steven> In stages makes it easier to digest, that's for sure

In stages makes it easier to digest, that's for sure ←

15:26:56 <CSB> Ok--I'll send you something for the next call.

Unknown CSB: Ok--I'll send you something for the next call. ←

15:27:12 <CSB> I also want to look at a couple of the groups that are putting out primers

Unknown CSB: I also want to look at a couple of the groups that are putting out primers ←

15:27:25 <CSB> I have those in my motes somewhere from the conference.

Unknown CSB: I have those in my motes somewhere from the conference. ←

15:27:33 <CSB> notes...

Unknown CSB: notes... ←

15:28:40 <Steven> Sure.

Sure. ←

15:28:54 <Steven> Take a look at XForms for HTML Authors too

Take a look at XForms for HTML Authors too ←

15:29:02 <Steven> (which is a primer for XForms)

(which is a primer for XForms) ←

15:29:23 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html ←

15:30:24 <CSB> ok--thanks. That should keep me busy for a while

Unknown CSB: ok--thanks. That should keep me busy for a while ←

15:30:34 <CSB> have a nice afternoon

Unknown CSB: have a nice afternoon ←

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