Meeting Record

Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

Minutes of 22 August 2007

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0024

Seen

Alessio Cartocci, Mark Birbeck, Masataka Yakura, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Tina Holmboe, Unknown Gregory_Rosmaita, Unknown oedipus

Regrets

Unknown Yam, Masataka Yakura, Alessio Cartocci

Chair

Unknown Roland

Scribe

Roland Merrick

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

September face 2 face is cancelled link
adopt Shane's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0017] link

Topics

next face 2 face
XHTML Modularization 1.1
@inputmode
@role
test suites for modules
Restore hr

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13:54:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-irc ←

13:54:47 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public ←

13:54:53 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml ←

13:54:53 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←

13:55:06 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

13:55:11 <Steven> Chair: Steven and Roland

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven and Roland' does not match any of the 16 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

13:56:16 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0024

13:56:23 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0024

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0024 ←

13:56:34 <Steven> Regrets: Regrets: Yam, Masataka Yakura, Alessio

Scribe problem: the name 'Regrets: Yam' does not match any of the 16 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

13:59:29 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started ←

13:59:36 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:01:03 <Zakim> + +004670855aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +004670855aaaa ←

14:01:11 <Tina> That'd be Tina.

Tina Holmboe: That'd be Tina. ←

14:01:26 <Zakim> +McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←

14:02:21 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

14:02:21 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

14:02:23 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

14:02:33 <ShaneM> zakim. mccarron is shanem

Shane McCarron: zakim. mccarron is shanem ←

14:02:38 <ShaneM>  hey

Shane McCarron: hey ←

14:02:43 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Tina

Steven Pemberton: zakim, aaaa is Tina ←

14:02:43 <Zakim> +Tina; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina; got it ←

14:02:48 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is here? ←

14:02:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina, McCarron, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina, McCarron, Steven ←

14:02:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tina, Steven, Lachy, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ShaneM, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tina, Steven, Lachy, krijnh ←

14:02:51 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←

14:02:53 <ShaneM>  zakim, McCarron is ShaneM

Shane McCarron: zakim, McCarron is ShaneM ←

14:02:53 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←

14:03:02 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is noisy? ←

14:03:12 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregory_Rosmaita (9%), Tina (38%), ShaneM (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregory_Rosmaita (9%), Tina (38%), ShaneM (4%) ←

14:06:45 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, code? ←

14:06:45 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

14:07:39 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←

14:07:55 <Rich> Zakim, ??P9 is Rich

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Zakim, ??P9 is Rich ←

14:07:55 <Zakim> +Rich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rich; got it ←

14:08:16 <Steven> Scribe: ROland

(Scribe set to Roland Merrick)

14:08:20 <Steven> s/O/o/

14:08:42 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

14:08:56 <ShaneM>  oops

Shane McCarron: oops ←

14:09:04 <Roland_> Topic: next face 2 face

1. next face 2 face

14:09:06 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

14:09:22 <Roland_> so far only 2 people intend to be there

so far only 2 people intend to be there ←

14:10:57 <oedipus> GJR will be at plenary

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: GJR will be at plenary ←

14:11:29 <oedipus> GJR notes conflict between XHTML2 and HTML5 working group meetings

Unknown oedipus: GJR notes conflict between XHTML2 and HTML5 working group meetings ←

14:11:46 <ShaneM>  that's ironic

Shane McCarron: that's ironic ←

14:11:50 <oedipus> GJR may be joint HTML-Forms Task Force meeting at plenary

Unknown oedipus: GJR may be joint HTML-Forms Task Force meeting at plenary ←

14:12:48 <Roland_> RESOLUTION: September face 2 face is cancelled

RESOLVED: September face 2 face is cancelled ←

14:13:08 <Zakim> + +0208761aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208761aabb ←

14:13:10 <Roland_> Topic: XHTML Modularization 1.1

2. XHTML Modularization 1.1

14:13:18 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aabb

Mark Birbeck: zakim, i am aabb ←

14:13:18 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it ←

14:13:22 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-modularization

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-modularization ←

14:14:04 <Roland_> a few changes need to be made to reflect response to Schema WG

a few changes need to be made to reflect response to Schema WG ←

14:14:34 <Roland_> Shane has made the changes, but not added the examples

Shane has made the changes, but not added the examples ←

14:16:28 <Roland_> Mark recalls his action to create the example that Shane needs to add

Mark recalls his action to create the example that Shane needs to add ←

14:17:30 <ShaneM>  http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts

Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts ←

14:17:48 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-modularization

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-modularization ←

14:18:43 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory_Rosmaita' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:18:53 <oedipus> XHTML Modularization 1.1: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-modularization-20070404

Unknown oedipus: XHTML Modularization 1.1: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-modularization-20070404 ←

14:19:02 <oedipus> XHTML Role Attribute Module: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070811

Unknown oedipus: XHTML Role Attribute Module: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070811 ←

14:19:54 <Roland_> comments this week on mailing list wrt XHTML Modularization

comments this week on mailing list wrt XHTML Modularization ←

14:19:55 <Zakim> -Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←

14:20:08 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:20:32 <Roland_> Topic: @inputmode

3. @inputmode

14:21:08 <oedipus> zakim, mute Gregory_Rosmaita

Unknown oedipus: zakim, mute Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:21:08 <Zakim> Gregory_Rosmaita should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Gregory_Rosmaita should now be muted ←

14:22:02 <Roland_> Steven has sent a note to mailing seeking clarification of "digits" problem

Steven has sent a note to mailing seeking clarification of "digits" problem ←

14:22:33 <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0015

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0015 ←

14:22:34 <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0023

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0023 ←

14:22:34 <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0024

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0024 ←

14:23:05 <Roland_> TOPIC: @role

4. @role

14:23:25 <Roland_> note from Tina : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0020

note from Tina : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0020 ←

14:24:01 <ShaneM>  +q

Shane McCarron: +q ←

14:24:05 <Tina> And I'm without a phone as of five minutes ago.

Tina Holmboe: And I'm without a phone as of five minutes ago. ←

14:24:12 <oedipus> zakim, unmute me

Unknown oedipus: zakim, unmute me ←

14:24:12 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, oedipus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

14:24:22 <oedipus> zakim, unmute Gregory_Rosmaita

Unknown oedipus: zakim, unmute Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:24:22 <Zakim> Gregory_Rosmaita should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Gregory_Rosmaita should no longer be muted ←

14:24:26 <markbirbeck> +q

Mark Birbeck: +q ←

14:24:35 <oedipus> q+

Unknown oedipus: q+ ←

14:25:11 <Rich> q+

Richard Schwerdtfeger: q+ ←

14:25:31 <oedipus> q=

Unknown oedipus: q= ←

14:25:34 <Roland_> Shane has spoken to Tina on this subject at some length

Shane has spoken to Tina on this subject at some length ←

14:25:35 <oedipus> -q

Unknown oedipus: -q ←

14:26:02 <oedipus> GJR: role on DIV can be used with ownedby labelledby etc.

Scribe problem: the name 'GJR' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown GJR: role on DIV can be used with ownedby labelledby etc. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oedipus ] ←

14:26:37 <Roland_> Shane would be prepared to continue working the issue with Tina (who is not on the call today)

Shane would be prepared to continue working the issue with Tina (who is not on the call today) ←

14:26:45 <oedipus> DIV can be given meaning by owing or being owned by an object containing it

Unknown oedipus: DIV can be given meaning by owing or being owned by an object containing it ←

14:27:12 <Roland_> Rich says that there are large numbers of examples of use of @role for ARIA.

Rich says that there are large numbers of examples of use of @role for ARIA. ←

14:28:05 <Roland_> Mark believes that there is a misunderstanding that needs to be resolved

Mark believes that there is a misunderstanding that needs to be resolved ←

14:28:33 <Roland_> Rich will reply to Tina

Rich will reply to Tina ←

14:28:50 <Roland_> TOPIC: test suites for modules

5. test suites for modules

14:29:02 <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0017

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0017 ←

14:30:34 <Roland_> a never ending problem with Modularization

a never ending problem with Modularization ←

14:34:23 <Roland_> for the specific case of @role we have usage by ARIA

for the specific case of @role we have usage by ARIA ←

14:36:28 <Roland_> the spec for role only defines syntax and no semantics

the spec for role only defines syntax and no semantics ←

14:37:31 <Roland_> Mark: if there is a DOM we should describe how @role works

Mark Birbeck: if there is a DOM we should describe how @role works ←

14:41:56 <Roland_> Mark the semantics for @role are very rudimentary

Mark the semantics for @role are very rudimentary ←

14:43:01 <ShaneM>  Remember that while we are discussing @role, we also have the access module, and other potential small modules.

Shane McCarron: Remember that while we are discussing @role, we also have the access module, and other potential small modules. ←

14:43:59 <Steven> q?

Steven Pemberton: q? ←

14:44:05 <Steven> queue=

Steven Pemberton: queue= ←

14:46:49 <Roland_> base proposal from Shane is that we should ceate a host driver language to test a module in isolation.

base proposal from Shane is that we should ceate a host driver language to test a module in isolation. ←

14:49:46 <ShaneM>  I think CR exit criteria is independent of the QA test suite requirements

Shane McCarron: I think CR exit criteria is independent of the QA test suite requirements ←

14:53:39 <Roland_> RESOLUTION: adopt Shane's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0017]

RESOLVED: adopt Shane's proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0017] ←

14:54:49 <Roland_> TOPIC: Restore hr

6. Restore hr

14:55:12 <ShaneM>  Dan said, as an aside in a comment to html-editor: p.s. I'm new to reviewing this document. The status section says it's "relatively mature"; are there any test cases I could study? Even if they're not 100% finished, I'd like to have a look.

Shane McCarron: Dan said, as an aside in a comment to html-editor: p.s. I'm new to reviewing this document. The status section says it's "relatively mature"; are there any test cases I could study? Even if they're not 100% finished, I'd like to have a look. ←

14:55:21 <Roland_> request from Dan.C [ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0003 ]

request from Dan.C [ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007JulSep/0003 ] ←

14:56:13 <Roland_> review history of decision, perceived to be purely presentational

review history of decision, perceived to be purely presentational ←

14:57:43 <markbirbeck> q+

Mark Birbeck: q+ ←

14:57:43 <Roland_> a need for a separator is accepted, hence separator

a need for a separator is accepted, hence separator ←

14:58:14 <oedipus> deprecate HR, replace with LS (post to public-html): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0099.html

Unknown oedipus: deprecate HR, replace with LS (post to public-html): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0099.html ←

14:58:23 <Roland_> Steven proposes to keep hr for legacy reasons

Steven proposes to keep hr for legacy reasons ←

14:58:39 <Roland_> and deprecate it

and deprecate it ←

14:58:56 <Roland_> Shane has no problems with it

Shane has no problems with it ←

15:00:00 <oedipus> GJR notes that use of BLOCKQUOTE for formatting deprecated in HTML 4.01 -- hasn't made a difference

Unknown oedipus: GJR notes that use of BLOCKQUOTE for formatting deprecated in HTML 4.01 -- hasn't made a difference ←

15:00:39 <Roland_> Mark states that we could keep such items in a module and that a decision to include a module is up to the language designer

Mark states that we could keep such items in a module and that a decision to include a module is up to the language designer ←

15:02:15 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←

15:02:17 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

15:02:19 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

15:02:23 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

15:02:25 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←

15:02:25 <Zakim> -Rich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rich ←

15:02:26 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended ←

15:02:31 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +004670855aaaa, Steven, Tina, Roland, ShaneM, Rich, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +004670855aaaa, Steven, Tina, Roland, ShaneM, Rich, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck ←

15:02:56 <markbirbeck> Mark: Another approach is to have a 'presentational' module in a way similar to MathML. Then it's clear to people what is best practice, but those elements are there for people if they really want them.

Mark Birbeck: Another approach is to have a 'presentational' module in a way similar to MathML. Then it's clear to people what is best practice, but those elements are there for people if they really want them. [ Scribe Assist by Mark Birbeck ] ←

15:03:25 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:03:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/22-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

Formatted by CommonScribe