14:08:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-rdfa-irc
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14:08:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:08:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
14:08:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 52 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 52 minutes ←
14:08:51 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:08:51 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2013
14:59:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 50 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:59:45 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
14:59:51 <manu> zakim, I am ??P29
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P29 ←
14:59:52 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
15:01:21 <Zakim> +??P36
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P36 ←
15:01:27 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P36
Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P36 ←
15:01:28 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +niklasl; got it ←
15:02:00 <manu> zakim, code?
Manu Sporny: zakim, code? ←
15:02:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu ←
15:02:17 <Zakim> +scor
Zakim IRC Bot: +scor ←
15:03:03 <Zakim> +gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg ←
15:05:30 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:06:17 <Zakim> +Shane_McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +Shane_McCarron ←
15:06:18 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2013Jan/0048.html
15:06:25 <ShaneM> zakim, I am Shane_McCarron
Shane McCarron: zakim, I am Shane_McCarron ←
15:06:25 <Zakim> ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with Shane_McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with Shane_McCarron ←
15:06:57 <manu> Manu: Any updates or changes to the agenda?
Manu Sporny: Any updates or changes to the agenda? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:07:07 <ivan> scribenick: ivan
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
15:09:29 <ivan> scribe: ivan
15:09:27 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-143: Prefixes too complicated
15:09:33 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/143
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/143 ←
15:09:50 <ivan> manu: we have now asked for feedback from Tab twice
Manu Sporny: we have now asked for feedback from Tab twice ←
15:09:54 <ivan> … no responses
… no responses ←
15:09:59 <ivan> … the WG has been pretty clear about it this over the past several years.
… the WG has been pretty clear about it this over the past several years. ←
15:10:15 <ivan> … we are going to raise a warning whenever a prefix is overwritten
… we are going to raise a warning whenever a prefix is overwritten ←
15:10:29 <ivan> … I think that is all we are going to do on this issue
… I think that is all we are going to do on this issue ←
15:10:31 <ShaneM> any prefix?
Shane McCarron: any prefix? ←
15:10:37 <ShaneM> or just an initial context prefix?
Shane McCarron: or just an initial context prefix? ←
15:11:01 <ivan> ivan: any
Ivan Herman: any ←
15:11:03 <ShaneM> thanks
Shane McCarron: thanks ←
15:11:29 <ivan> manu: whenever you overwrite a prefix a warning is issued
Manu Sporny: whenever you overwrite a prefix a warning is issued ←
15:11:44 <ivan> … I will add text when the issue is closed
… I will add text when the issue is closed ←
15:12:23 <ivan> Manu: Since we have discussed this issue to death, and since no compelling evidence has been provided to remove the feature, and since all proposals for removing or modifying the feature would break documents in the past or make migrating to new prefixes impossible in the future, the WG has decided to close this issue with a minor modification to the way prefix-overriding is handled in RDFa processors.
Manu Sporny: Since we have discussed this issue to death, and since no compelling evidence has been provided to remove the feature, and since all proposals for removing or modifying the feature would break documents in the past or make migrating to new prefixes impossible in the future, the WG has decided to close this issue with a minor modification to the way prefix-overriding is handled in RDFa processors. ←
15:12:58 <ivan> The WG is satisfied.
The WG is satisfied. ←
15:13:04 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-144: Add @itemref-like attribute
15:13:11 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/144
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/144 ←
15:13:40 <ivan> manu: Gregg implemented the feature in the document. I changed some of the spec text, people did not like my changes, I reverted to Gregg's version.
Manu Sporny: Gregg implemented the feature in the document. I changed some of the spec text, people did not like my changes, I reverted to Gregg's version. ←
15:14:12 <ivan> … when Gregg wrote the feature, there was an assumption of having an object with rdfa:Prototype
… when Gregg wrote the feature, there was an assumption of having an object with rdfa:Prototype ←
15:14:12 <ivan> … and then another part would have a rdfa:ref
… and then another part would have a rdfa:ref ←
15:14:21 <ivan> … it would then 'imports' all the statements of the prototype
… it would then 'imports' all the statements of the prototype ←
15:14:39 <ivan> … there are some rules/pattern matching in the document to define it
… there are some rules/pattern matching in the document to define it ←
15:14:59 <ivan> Manu: I removed the rdfa:Prototype type because I felt it was too meta, harder to understand than @itemref.
Manu Sporny: I removed the rdfa:Prototype type because I felt it was too meta, harder to understand than @itemref. ←
15:15:17 <ivan> … but as Niklas said it is actually good if people know that is meta
… but as Niklas said it is actually good if people know that is meta ←
15:15:35 <ivan> … I also removed the use of bnodes in the examples
… I also removed the use of bnodes in the examples ←
15:15:46 <ivan> … we did not need to do that to demonstrate the functionality. The examples now use fragment identifiers instead.
… we did not need to do that to demonstrate the functionality. The examples now use fragment identifiers instead. ←
15:16:17 <ivan> Manu: we are reverting things that people had objections to
Manu Sporny: we are reverting things that people had objections to ←
15:16:24 <ivan> … any other comments?
… any other comments? ←
15:16:32 <ivan> gregg: we should decide the terms we use
Gregg Kellogg: we should decide the terms we use ←
15:16:43 <ivan> … rdfa:include or rdfa:ref ?
… rdfa:include or rdfa:ref ? ←
15:16:55 <ivan> manu: right now I feel that it is a fairly complex feature
Manu Sporny: right now I feel that it is a fairly complex feature ←
15:17:11 <ivan> … the property copying and microdata side by side, the microdata version feels simpler
… the property copying and microdata side by side, the microdata version feels simpler ←
15:17:45 <ivan> niklasl: what is happening from and abstract point of view?
Niklas Lindström: what is happening from and abstract point of view? ←
15:18:00 <ivan> … there is a product and a general part of the product
… there is a product and a general part of the product ←
15:18:21 <ivan> gregg : rfda:ref is useful if one thinks of a prototype being pulled in
gregg : rfda:ref is useful if one thinks of a prototype being pulled in ←
15:18:28 <ivan> … include is more what we are doing
… include is more what we are doing ←
15:18:47 <ivan> … but include has an include pattern in microformats, and what we do is very different
… but include has an include pattern in microformats, and what we do is very different ←
15:18:55 <scor> zakim, mute ivan
Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, mute ivan ←
15:18:56 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:19:01 <ivan> … we do not inherit the the types from the calling point
… we do not inherit the the types from the calling point ←
15:19:16 <ivan> manu: I am not sure web developers would really see these different
Manu Sporny: I am not sure web developers would really see these different ←
15:19:23 <ivan> … so include might be o.k. as well
… so include might be o.k. as well ←
15:19:47 <ivan> … people might look at it with fresh eye
… people might look at it with fresh eye ←
15:20:05 <ivan> gregg: include in, eg, microformats is done on a syntax level
Gregg Kellogg: include in, eg, microformats is done on a syntax level ←
15:20:17 <ivan> manu: clone, copy, import, pull … ?
Manu Sporny: clone, copy, import, pull … ? ←
15:20:48 <ivan> niklasl: I think it is better if it is declarative and not imperative
Niklas Lindström: I think it is better if it is declarative and not imperative ←
15:20:58 <ivan> gregg: we are on bike shedding… :-)
Gregg Kellogg: we are on bike shedding… :-) ←
15:21:20 <ivan> niklas: are we waiting for feedback? Ie, we cannot be finalize it
Niklas Lindström: are we waiting for feedback? Ie, we cannot be finalize it ←
15:22:20 <ivan> manu: are there any objection adding this feature?
Manu Sporny: are there any objection adding this feature? ←
15:22:49 <ivan> niklas: I am a bit hesitant, sure, it could go in
Niklas Lindström: I am a bit hesitant, sure, it could go in ←
15:23:22 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
zakim, unmute me ←
15:23:22 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
15:24:31 <ivan> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
15:24:31 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:25:23 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification as an at-risk feature.
PROPOSED: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification as an at-risk feature. ←
15:25:29 <ivan> ivan: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:25:30 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:25:31 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:25:35 <niklasl> +0.75 unless feedback is skeptical/negative (then it shouldn't fly)
Niklas Lindström: +0.75 unless feedback is skeptical/negative (then it shouldn't fly) ←
15:25:38 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
15:25:41 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
15:25:48 <ivan> ack ivan
ack ivan ←
15:25:49 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:25:50 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:27:33 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:27:25 <manu> RESOLVED: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification as an at-risk feature.
RESOLVED: Add the Property Copying feature into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 specification as an at-risk feature. ←
15:27:02 <gkellogg> ivan: consider rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern
Ivan Herman: consider rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
15:27:04 <ivan> what about rdfa:pattern, rdfa:Pattern
what about rdfa:pattern, rdfa:Pattern ←
15:27:42 <ivan> manu: after discussions rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern have it
Manu Sporny: after discussions rdfa:copy and rdfa:Pattern have it ←
15:27:43 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-145: @content override @value
15:27:53 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
15:27:54 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/145
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/145 ←
15:27:59 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:28:36 <gkellogg> q+ @datatype though
Gregg Kellogg: q+ @datatype though ←
15:28:51 <manu> ivan: @value is not used in HTML5 in any meaningful way, the issue isn't @content overriding @value... it's whether to do @value processing at all.
Ivan Herman: @value is not used in HTML5 in any meaningful way, the issue isn't @content overriding @value... it's whether to do @value processing at all. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:28:57 <ivan> ivan: the issue if there is any value processing at all
Ivan Herman: the issue if there is any value processing at all ←
15:28:58 <manu> ack
Manu Sporny: ack ←
15:29:01 <manu> ack @dattype
Manu Sporny: ack @dattype ←
15:29:12 <manu> ack @dattype, though
Manu Sporny: ack @dattype, though ←
15:29:18 <manu> ack @datatype, though
Manu Sporny: ack @datatype, though ←
15:29:26 <ivan> gregg: there is a parallel issue on whether @datatype takes precedence over @content
Gregg Kellogg: there is a parallel issue on whether @datatype takes precedence over @content ←
15:29:33 <ivan> gregg: wrong
Gregg Kellogg: wrong ←
15:29:40 <manu> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
15:29:42 <manu> q-
Manu Sporny: q- ←
15:29:42 <ivan> gregg: @content takes precedence over @datatype
Gregg Kellogg: @content takes precedence over @datatype ←
15:29:51 <ivan> (all): yes
(all): yes ←
15:29:54 <manu> ack "@datatype, though"
Manu Sporny: ack "@datatype, though" ←
15:30:39 <manu> PROPOSAL: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
PROPOSED: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1. ←
15:30:41 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:30:41 <ivan> ivan: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:30:46 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:30:51 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:30:59 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
15:31:02 <niklasl> +0 I liked the effect of picking it up from <input> but I cannot argue for it with evidence of its need....
Niklas Lindström: +0 I liked the effect of picking it up from <input> but I cannot argue for it with evidence of its need.... ←
15:31:08 <manu> RESOLVED: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
RESOLVED: Do not process the @value attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1. ←
15:31:42 <manu> PROPOSAL: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element.
PROPOSED: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element. ←
15:31:47 <ivan> ivan: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:31:48 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:31:49 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:31:54 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:31:59 <niklasl> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
15:32:19 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
15:32:20 <manu> RESOLVED: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element.
RESOLVED: @content overrides @datetime when found on the same element. ←
15:32:40 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-146: HTML5+RDFa needs rule for implied @about="" on head/body
15:32:42 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/146
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/146 ←
15:33:11 <ivan> manu: we had a discussion whether html+rdfa for a implied about on head/body
Manu Sporny: we had a discussion whether html+rdfa for a implied about on head/body ←
15:33:22 <ivan> … we resolved not to do that in rdfa 1.1
… we resolved not to do that in rdfa 1.1 ←
15:33:27 <manu> the discussion is here: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/117
Manu Sporny: the discussion is here: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/117 ←
15:33:28 <ivan> zakim, mute me
zakim, mute me ←
15:33:28 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:33:34 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
15:34:12 <ivan> Manu: the reason we impled @about was because the use case was a corner case
Manu Sporny: the reason we impled @about was because the use case was a corner case ←
15:34:12 <ivan> … we were making the processing rules more complicated for a corner case use case
… we were making the processing rules more complicated for a corner case use case ←
15:34:31 <ivan> … the root element has the url of the document as an @about for any xml element
… the root element has the url of the document as an @about for any xml element ←
15:34:39 <ivan> … we could then remove it from head and body
… we could then remove it from head and body ←
15:34:57 <niklasl> .. (or empty @resource (in Lite))
Niklas Lindström: .. (or empty @resource (in Lite)) ←
15:34:58 <ivan> … caveat is that the @typeof alone would generate a bnode
… caveat is that the @typeof alone would generate a bnode ←
15:35:02 <manu> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
15:35:09 <ivan> gregg: my memory is different
Gregg Kellogg: my memory is different ←
15:35:16 <ivan> .. we had a rule for 1.0
.. we had a rule for 1.0 ←
15:35:37 <ivan> … the problem was that if somebody set a different base, and this would be overritten by that
… the problem was that if somebody set a different base, and this would be overritten by that ←
15:36:00 <ivan> … we therefore used the special rule referring the parent object for the resource
… we therefore used the special rule referring the parent object for the resource ←
15:36:07 <ivan> … and what we decided to do
… and what we decided to do ←
15:36:17 <ivan> … that is the language in xhtml+rdfa 1.1
… that is the language in xhtml+rdfa 1.1 ←
15:36:21 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
15:36:28 <ivan> ack @datatype
ack @datatype ←
15:36:31 <ivan> ack though
ack though ←
15:37:05 <ivan> ShaneM: there is nothing in the general rule set
Shane McCarron: there is nothing in the general rule set ←
15:37:24 <ivan> gregg: the difference here was to use the parent object
Gregg Kellogg: the difference here was to use the parent object ←
15:37:34 <ivan> … that was what the group intended
… that was what the group intended ←
15:37:42 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:37:43 <ivan> ack ivan
ack ivan ←
15:39:03 <ShaneM> q+ to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa
Shane McCarron: q+ to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa ←
15:40:05 <ivan> ack ShaneM
ack ShaneM ←
15:40:13 <manu> ack Shane_McCarron
Manu Sporny: ack Shane_McCarron ←
15:40:13 <Zakim> Shane_McCarron, you wanted to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa
Zakim IRC Bot: Shane_McCarron, you wanted to disagree about process with regard to XHTML+RDFa ←
15:41:40 <ivan> manu: it seems that the sentiment is to adopt the language from xhtml+rdfa
Manu Sporny: it seems that the sentiment is to adopt the language from xhtml+rdfa ←
15:44:29 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec.
PROPOSED: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec. ←
15:44:31 <ivan> ivan: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:44:32 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:44:34 <niklasl> +1 for consistency with XHTML 1.1 (I prefer just adding an explicit @resource along with the @typeof)
Niklas Lindström: +1 for consistency with XHTML 1.1 (I prefer just adding an explicit @resource along with the @typeof) ←
15:44:39 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:44:50 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
15:45:02 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:45:05 <manu> RESOLVED: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec.
RESOLVED: Add text matching XHTML+RDFa 1.1 for special processing of HEAD and BODY into the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec. ←
15:45:50 <ivan> manu: we are hopefully done with all of the issues!
Manu Sporny: we are hopefully done with all of the issues! ←
15:45:58 <ivan> … we can have a telcon next week
… we can have a telcon next week ←
15:46:12 <ivan> ... any other issues we have to resolve before last call?
... any other issues we have to resolve before last call? ←
15:46:22 <ivan> No other issues.
No other issues. ←
15:47:37 <ivan> … I will prepare the HTML+RDFa 1.1 Last Call document this weekend, then.
… I will prepare the HTML+RDFa 1.1 Last Call document this weekend, then. ←
15:47:49 <ivan> …. hopefully people can read it before next Thursday.
…. hopefully people can read it before next Thursday. ←
15:47:55 <ivan> … we will do a poll to take it to Last Call by email, over the mailing list.
… we will do a poll to take it to Last Call by email, over the mailing list. ←
15:48:46 <manu> Topic: PER for RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa 1.1
15:49:17 <manu> shanem: Are there any PER dependencies for the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec?
Shane McCarron: Are there any PER dependencies for the HTML+RDFa 1.1 spec? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:49:22 <manu> manu: No, I don't think so.
Manu Sporny: No, I don't think so. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:49:35 <manu> ivan: We should do the PERs later.
Ivan Herman: We should do the PERs later. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:50:02 <manu> ivan: We should do the PRs and PERs together.
Ivan Herman: We should do the PRs and PERs together. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:50:58 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:51:00 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
15:51:00 <Zakim> -Shane_McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -Shane_McCarron ←
15:51:02 <Zakim> -manu
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←
15:51:04 <Zakim> -niklasl
Zakim IRC Bot: -niklasl ←
15:51:09 <Zakim> -scor
Zakim IRC Bot: -scor ←
15:51:10 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
15:51:10 <Zakim> Attendees were manu, niklasl, scor, gkellogg, Ivan, Shane_McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were manu, niklasl, scor, gkellogg, Ivan, Shane_McCarron ←
15:52:31 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
Manu Sporny: rrsagent, make logs public ←
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