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RDFa Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 11 March 2010

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0059
Seen
Ben Adida, Benjamin Adrian, Ivan Herman, Knud Möller, Manu Sporny, Mark Birbeck, Robert Weir, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Toby Inkster
Regrets
Mark Birbeck, Ben Adida
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Steven Pemberton
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
14:17:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-irc

14:17:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:17:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

14:17:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes

14:17:24 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:17:24 <trackbot> Date: 11 March 2010
14:58:51 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 41 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

14:58:58 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

14:59:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:59:33 <manu> zakim, I am [IP

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am [IP

14:59:33 <Zakim> ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

14:59:54 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:59:54 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:59:55 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:00:30 <Zakim> +Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin

15:01:20 <Zakim> +Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud

15:02:07 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

15:02:07 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

15:02:09 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

15:03:00 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is noisy?

15:03:11 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (62%), [IPcaller] (4%), Knud (27%), Ivan (4%), Steven (5%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (62%), [IPcaller] (4%), Knud (27%), Ivan (4%), Steven (5%)

15:03:17 <Zakim> +tinkster

Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster

15:03:33 <Knud> zakim, mute me

Knud Möller: zakim, mute me

15:03:33 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted

15:04:32 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

15:05:17 <Steven> Note that the call is one hour earlier for Europeans next week and the week after

Note that the call is one hour earlier for Europeans next week and the week after

15:05:21 <tinkster> I will probably have to send regrets for next two weeks then.

Toby Inkster: I will probably have to send regrets for next two weeks then.

15:05:23 <Steven> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

15:05:23 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted

15:05:35 <Steven> Topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

15:05:38 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/open

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/open

15:05:54 <Steven> Manu: Action 5 for Ivan?

Manu Sporny: ACTION-5 for Ivan?

15:06:12 <Steven> ... mark as done?

... mark as done?

15:06:15 <manu> ACTION-5?

Manu Sporny: ACTION-5?

15:06:15 <trackbot> ACTION-5 -- Mark Birbeck to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents -- due 2010-03-18 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-5 -- Mark Birbeck to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents -- due 2010-03-18 -- OPEN

15:06:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/5

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/5

15:06:19 <Steven> Ivan: the discussion is still ongoing

Ivan Herman: the discussion is still ongoing

15:06:22 <manu> trackbot, close ACTION-5

Manu Sporny: trackbot, close ACTION-5

15:06:22 <trackbot> ACTION-5 Generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-5 Generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents closed

15:06:46 <manu> trackbot, comment ACTION-5 Ivan produced a merged specification explaining how to pull in external vocabulary documents.

Manu Sporny: trackbot, comment ACTION-5 Ivan produced a merged specification explaining how to pull in external vocabulary documents.

15:06:46 <trackbot> ACTION-5 Generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-5 Generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents notes added

15:06:56 <Steven> Manu: URL for that Ivan?

Manu Sporny: URL for that Ivan?

15:07:04 <Steven> Ivan: Just a moment, watch the IRC

Ivan Herman: Just a moment, watch the IRC

15:07:24 <Steven> Manu: I will fix the descriptions of the list

Manu Sporny: I will fix the descriptions of the list

15:07:28 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-vocab-20100305/ vocabulary document (version 1)

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-vocab-20100305/ vocabulary document (version 1)

15:07:38 <Steven> Regrets: MarkB, Ben_Adida
15:07:52 <Steven> Topic: ISSUE-1 RDFa Vocabularies (on Mark)

2. ISSUE-1 RDFa Vocabularies (on Mark)

15:07:53 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-vocab-20100311/ vocabulary document (version 2)

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-vocab-20100311/ vocabulary document (version 2)

15:07:56 <manu> The things that we may have consensus on:

Manu Sporny: The things that we may have consensus on:

15:07:58 <manu> * RDFa profiles are specified in an external document (profile document)

Manu Sporny: * RDFa profiles are specified in an external document (profile document)

15:08:00 <manu> * We should use the @profile attribute to specify the profile document

Manu Sporny: * We should use the @profile attribute to specify the profile document

15:08:01 <manu> * The @profile attribute can be placed on any element and is scoped to the element on which it is defined and its children

Manu Sporny: * The @profile attribute can be placed on any element and is scoped to the element on which it is defined and its children

15:08:05 <manu> * The profile document is marked up in RDFa, using a vocabulary designed to modify the behavior of the RDFa Processor

Manu Sporny: * The profile document is marked up in RDFa, using a vocabulary designed to modify the behavior of the RDFa Processor

15:08:08 <manu> * The default profile document can be specified in the RDFa Core spec. This document will outline what prefixes and tokens are pre-defined

Manu Sporny: * The default profile document can be specified in the RDFa Core spec. This document will outline what prefixes and tokens are pre-defined

15:08:11 <manu> * The profile document can specify tokens and prefixes

Manu Sporny: * The profile document can specify tokens and prefixes

15:08:13 <manu> * One does not use xmlns: to declare prefixes and tokens

Manu Sporny: * One does not use xmlns: to declare prefixes and tokens

15:08:17 <Zakim> +RobW

Zakim IRC Bot: +RobW

15:09:22 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:09:33 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

15:09:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

15:09:50 <tinkster> ... but that <head profile> applies to *whole* document.

Toby Inkster: ... but that <head profile> applies to *whole* document.

15:09:54 <Steven> Ivan: I'm not sure all of these do have consensus

Ivan Herman: I'm not sure all of these do have consensus

15:10:05 <Steven> ... such as the xmlns one

... such as the xmlns one

15:10:23 <Steven> Chair: Manu
15:10:38 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

15:10:41 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

15:11:17 <Steven> Manu: I thought there was opposition to the JSON method, so then there was one proposal left

Manu Sporny: I thought there was opposition to the JSON method, so then there was one proposal left

15:11:27 <Steven> Ivan: There are two issues

Ivan Herman: There are two issues

15:11:46 <Steven> ... whether we use an RDF vocabulary for prefixes and tokens, and then how we serialise

... whether we use an RDF vocabulary for prefixes and tokens, and then how we serialise

15:12:08 <Steven> ... I thought Mark was not in favour of the first bit

... I thought Mark was not in favour of the first bit

15:12:12 <Steven> ... though I and Ben are

... though I and Ben are

15:12:39 <Steven> Manu: So the last bullet point and what Ivan has just said are dependent on each other

Manu Sporny: So the last bullet point and what Ivan has just said are dependent on each other

15:12:51 <Steven> ... Mark said we should be able to use xmlns for prefixes and tokens

... Mark said we should be able to use xmlns for prefixes and tokens

15:12:55 <Steven> Ivan: You are right

Ivan Herman: You are right

15:13:00 <Steven> ... I am against that as well

... I am against that as well

15:13:40 <Steven> Manu: There was a problem of leakage of prefixes into the authors document

Manu Sporny: There was a problem of leakage of prefixes into the authors document

15:14:36 <Steven> ... we may have consensus on the RDFa as profile bit

... we may have consensus on the RDFa as profile bit

15:14:54 <Steven> ... we may want dc and foaf in the predefined prefixes

... we may want dc and foaf in the predefined prefixes

15:15:13 <Steven> ... we would do that by saying if there is no profile specified then use this one by default

... we would do that by saying if there is no profile specified then use this one by default

15:15:17 <Steven> ... agree?

... agree?

15:15:26 <Steven> q+

q+

15:15:33 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:15:39 <Steven> ack me

ack me

15:15:50 <manu> Steven: Do we really need to have a default profile?

Steven Pemberton: Do we really need to have a default profile? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:15:56 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:16:26 <Steven> Manu: we wanted to have a default case that was available without using profile

Manu Sporny: we wanted to have a default case that was available without using profile

15:16:36 <tinkster> Would the default profile apply to XHTML+RDFa 1.1? or RDFa Core 1.1?

Toby Inkster: Would the default profile apply to XHTML+RDFa 1.1? or RDFa Core 1.1?

15:17:11 <Steven> Steven: What is the advantage over saying that the defaults are always there?

Steven Pemberton: What is the advantage over saying that the defaults are always there?

15:17:37 <Steven> Manu: There are two possibilities: overlaying your profile over the default

Manu Sporny: There are two possibilities: overlaying your profile over the default

15:18:09 <Steven> ... or replacing the default with your profile

... or replacing the default with your profile

15:18:23 <tinkster> Other host languages might prefer different default profiles.

Toby Inkster: Other host languages might prefer different default profiles.

15:18:57 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

15:19:00 <Steven> Manu: Answering Toby's question [scribe missed]

Manu Sporny: Answering Toby's question [scribe missed]

15:19:14 <Steven> Manu: Does ODF have a viewpoint on this?

Manu Sporny: Does ODF have a viewpoint on this?

15:19:19 <Steven> Rob: Not really

Robert Weir: Not really

15:19:34 <Steven> Manu: I would expect ODF to want a different set of defaults

Manu Sporny: I would expect ODF to want a different set of defaults

15:20:08 <Steven> Rob: The vocabs we are seeing in ODF1.2 are about embedded vcards, events etc; no FOAF

Robert Weir: The vocabs we are seeing in ODF1.2 are about embedded vcards, events etc; no FOAF

15:20:28 <Steven> q+

q+

15:20:40 <Steven> Ivan: My proposal is we should postpone this discussion

Ivan Herman: My proposal is we should postpone this discussion

15:20:48 <Steven> ... we don't know what a profile doc will contain

... we don't know what a profile doc will contain

15:21:01 <Steven> ... so the default issue is premature

... so the default issue is premature

15:21:32 <Steven> Manu: Fine

Manu Sporny: Fine

15:21:40 <Steven> q-

q-

15:22:07 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

15:22:28 <Steven> Steven: For ODF there is no real problem with always having an explicit @profile, since the authoring arguments don't apply

Steven Pemberton: For ODF there is no real problem with always having an explicit @profile, since the authoring arguments don't apply

15:23:03 <Steven> Manu: If we want the concept of a default profile we need to be able to support prefixes in a profile document

Manu Sporny: If we want the concept of a default profile we need to be able to support prefixes in a profile document

15:23:26 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

15:23:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

15:23:32 <Steven> Ivan: I think the list if fine

Ivan Herman: I think the list if fine

15:23:58 <Steven> ... I'm not sure if we have consensus about dropping JSON

... I'm not sure if we have consensus about dropping JSON

15:24:27 <Steven> Manu: There are security implications associated with it, and CORS will solve it, and so will the RDFa API

Manu Sporny: There are security implications associated with it, and CORS will solve it, and so will the RDFa API

15:24:47 <Steven> ... and we don't want to mark up in two different ways

... and we don't want to mark up in two different ways

15:24:49 <Steven> q+

q+

15:25:03 <Steven> Ivan: What does Toby think?

Ivan Herman: What does Toby think?

15:25:20 <Steven> Toby: The format should be RDF of some kind

Toby Inkster: The format should be RDF of some kind

15:25:58 <Steven> ... in any serialisation, but only RDFa is the only required one

... in any serialisation, but only RDFa is the only required one

15:26:20 <Steven> q?

q?

15:27:18 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:27:18 <Steven> Steven: I think it is the wrong way round - there is no consensus on *adding* JSON

Steven Pemberton: I think it is the wrong way round - there is no consensus on *adding* JSON

15:27:25 <Steven> Shane: I agree strongly

Shane McCarron: I agree strongly

15:27:41 <manu> The things that we still have to discuss:

Manu Sporny: The things that we still have to discuss:

15:27:43 <Steven> Manu: I would still like to hear Mark; he will have to fight hard though

Manu Sporny: I would still like to hear Mark; he will have to fight hard though

15:27:43 <manu> * What happens when you can't dereference the profile document? (Toby's proposal)

Manu Sporny: * What happens when you can't dereference the profile document? (Toby's proposal)

15:27:45 <manu> * Are we limiting next/prev/index/license/etc to @rel/@rev or allowing them everywhere?

Manu Sporny: * Are we limiting next/prev/index/license/etc to @rel/@rev or allowing them everywhere?

15:27:46 <ivan> ack Steven

Ivan Herman: ack Steven

15:27:46 <manu> * What is the mental model are tokens/prefixes two different concepts in RDFa or are they the same thing?

Manu Sporny: * What is the mental model are tokens/prefixes two different concepts in RDFa or are they the same thing?

15:27:47 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

15:27:48 <manu> * Are there backwards compatibility issues with the proposed path forward?

Manu Sporny: * Are there backwards compatibility issues with the proposed path forward?

15:28:04 <Steven> Ivan: I agree with Toby

Ivan Herman: I agree with Toby

15:28:17 <Steven> ... RDFa is the only required serialization

... RDFa is the only required serialization

15:28:17 <ShaneM> Me too

Shane McCarron: Me too

15:28:45 <Steven> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

15:28:45 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted

15:29:37 <Steven> Manu: Mark seems to be concerned with the relation between token and prefix

Manu Sporny: Mark seems to be concerned with the relation between token and prefix

15:29:55 <Steven> ... and there are backward compatibility issues

... and there are backward compatibility issues

15:30:04 <Steven> ... Any other issues?

... Any other issues?

15:30:12 <Steven> Ivan: No

Ivan Herman: No

15:30:46 <Steven> ... how will we decide?

... how will we decide?

15:31:27 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0059
15:31:33 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

15:31:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

15:32:17 <Steven> Ivan: We have already had two versions of this document

Ivan Herman: We have already had two versions of this document

15:32:50 <Steven> ... I would like to see a feeling for which direction

... I would like to see a feeling for which direction

15:33:45 <Steven> ... we have to move on

... we have to move on

15:33:49 <Steven> q+

q+

15:33:54 <Steven> ack me

ack me

15:34:19 <manu> Steven: There is no immediate hurry to move forward - we may want to let this stuff sink in for a while.

Steven Pemberton: There is no immediate hurry to move forward - we may want to let this stuff sink in for a while. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:34:28 <Steven> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me

15:34:28 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted

15:35:07 <Steven> Manu: A lot of the decisions are interrelated, and that's why I would like a bit more time to hold back on making a firm decision

Manu Sporny: A lot of the decisions are interrelated, and that's why I would like a bit more time to hold back on making a firm decision

15:35:57 <Steven> Manu: I think we should point to the latest document, and then work with that

Manu Sporny: I think we should point to the latest document, and then work with that

15:36:48 <Steven> Ivan: The decision on the restriction of tokens to @rel @rev is important

Ivan Herman: The decision on the restriction of tokens to @rel @rev is important

15:36:57 <tinkster> Another possibility is allowing profiles to define keywords that only apply to particular attributes.

Toby Inkster: Another possibility is allowing profiles to define keywords that only apply to particular attributes.

15:37:07 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:37:08 <Steven> Manu: Anyone object to allowing all tokens everywhere?

Manu Sporny: Anyone object to allowing all tokens everywhere?

15:37:25 <tinkster> e.g. typeof="Person"

Toby Inkster: e.g. typeof="Person"

15:38:06 <manu> q+ manu

Manu Sporny: q+ manu

15:38:10 <manu> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

15:38:13 <Steven> Ivan: Then the management of keywords and prefixes becomes very different

Ivan Herman: Then the management of keywords and prefixes becomes very different

15:38:21 <Steven> Shane: For an implementation?

Shane McCarron: For an implementation?

15:38:25 <Steven> Ivan: No

Ivan Herman: No

15:39:02 <Benjamin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0068.html

Benjamin Adrian: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0068.html

15:39:10 <Steven> Topic: RDFa API Direction

3. RDFa API Direction

15:39:30 <Steven> Benjamin: See the above mail

Benjamin Adrian: See the above mail

15:39:35 <Steven> ... why is an API needed?

... why is an API needed?

15:39:49 <Steven> ... I looked at the code  of some of the libraries

... I looked at the code of some of the libraries

15:40:03 <Steven> ... and how could an API help to reduce them

... and how could an API help to reduce them

15:40:15 <Steven> ... conclusion - most of the code is for HTML attributes

... conclusion - most of the code is for HTML attributes

15:40:27 <Steven> ... and so an API could help

... and so an API could help

15:40:39 <Steven> ... developers have to use some form of recursion

... developers have to use some form of recursion

15:40:44 <Steven> ... an API may help that

... an API may help that

15:40:55 <tinkster> yes

Toby Inkster: yes

15:40:56 <Steven> ... I looked at Operator for Firefox

... I looked at Operator for Firefox

15:40:58 <manu> yes

Manu Sporny: yes

15:40:59 <Knud> yup

Knud Möller: yup

15:41:21 <Steven> ... RDFa DOM API may help for that sort of app

... RDFa DOM API may help for that sort of app

15:41:50 <Steven> ... an API can hide the difference between URIs and CURIEs

... an API can hide the difference between URIs and CURIEs

15:42:02 <Steven> ... and external definitions in profiles

... and external definitions in profiles

15:42:12 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

15:43:07 <Steven> Manu: Are we focussing on RDFa parser developers, or web page developers?

Manu Sporny: Are we focussing on RDFa parser developers, or web page developers?

15:43:12 <Steven> ... I think the latter

... I think the latter

15:43:24 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about audience

Shane McCarron: q+ to ask about audience

15:43:25 <tinkster> Certainly, to help page authors. The parser would be built into the browser.

Toby Inkster: Certainly, to help page authors. The parser would be built into the browser.

15:43:30 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

15:43:34 <Knud> I think the latter

Knud Möller: I think the latter

15:43:36 <manu> ack [IP

Manu Sporny: ack [IP

15:43:48 <manu> ack ShaneM

Manu Sporny: ack ShaneM

15:43:48 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about audience

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask about audience

15:44:34 <tinkster> DocA loads DocB in an iframe, and extracts triples from DocB.

Toby Inkster: DocA loads DocB in an iframe, and extracts triples from DocB.

15:44:51 <Knud> useful for mashups?

Knud Möller: useful for mashups?

15:44:54 <Steven> Shane: Who is our audience for this?

Shane McCarron: Who is our audience for this?

15:45:18 <Steven> Manu: App writers, crawlers

Manu Sporny: App writers, crawlers

15:45:59 <Benjamin> q+

Benjamin Adrian: q+

15:46:43 <tinkster> Also GreaseMonkey/Opera User Scripts...

Toby Inkster: Also GreaseMonkey/Opera User Scripts...

15:46:45 <Steven> ... extracting the triples

... extracting the triples

15:46:58 <Steven> Shane: So native in a browser, or a library?

Shane McCarron: So native in a browser, or a library?

15:47:07 <Steven> Manu: Yes

Manu Sporny: Yes

15:47:13 <manu> ack Benjamin

Manu Sporny: ack Benjamin

15:47:32 <Steven> Benjamin: If we have an API, we don't need RDFa parsers anymore?

Benjamin Adrian: If we have an API, we don't need RDFa parsers anymore?

15:47:32 <tinkster> The parser powers the API.

Toby Inkster: The parser powers the API.

15:47:34 <Steven> Manu: Yes

Manu Sporny: Yes

15:47:45 <Steven> Shane: At least on the client side

Shane McCarron: At least on the client side

15:48:06 <Steven> Ivan: So my distiller will still be used.

Ivan Herman: So my distiller will still be used.

15:48:14 <tinkster> Even though we have XML DOM, we still need XML parsers!

Toby Inkster: Even though we have XML DOM, we still need XML parsers!

15:48:19 <Steven> Manu: We want to make it easier for web developers to use

Manu Sporny: We want to make it easier for web developers to use

15:48:40 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

15:48:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

15:49:06 <Steven> Benjamin: So the real focus is to extract RDF triples

Benjamin Adrian: So the real focus is to extract RDF triples

15:49:15 <Steven> ... and it should be possible to query

... and it should be possible to query

15:49:27 <manu> q+ to discuss add/removal of RDF triples

Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss add/removal of RDF triples

15:49:29 <Steven> ... add triples, and remove them

... add triples, and remove them

15:49:42 <Steven> ... those last two may be optional

... those last two may be optional

15:49:51 <manu> ack [IP

Manu Sporny: ack [IP

15:49:51 <Zakim> [IPcaller], you wanted to discuss add/removal of RDF triples

Zakim IRC Bot: [IPcaller], you wanted to discuss add/removal of RDF triples

15:50:05 <Steven> zakim, [IP is Manu

zakim, [IP is Manu

15:50:05 <Zakim> +Manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Manu; got it

15:50:16 <ivan> +1 to the current order

Ivan Herman: +1 to the current order

15:50:23 <Steven> Manu: Not sure about 2, and against 3 and 4

Manu Sporny: Not sure about 2, and against 3 and 4

15:50:35 <tinkster> #3 is hard; #4 is easy but not especially useful without #3.

Toby Inkster: #3 is hard; #4 is easy but not especially useful without #3.

15:50:36 <Steven> ... at least in the first version

... at least in the first version

15:50:43 <Steven> ... maybe we can build it up by stages

... maybe we can build it up by stages

15:51:15 <ShaneM> I agree with Toby - you would need a CSS selector-like query interface... SPARQL in the browser

Shane McCarron: I agree with Toby - you would need a CSS selector-like query interface... SPARQL in the browser

15:51:35 <Steven> Manu: It would be difficult to do 3 and 4

Manu Sporny: It would be difficult to do 3 and 4

15:51:51 <Steven> Ivan: I think 1 and 2 should be the focus for now

Ivan Herman: I think 1 and 2 should be the focus for now

15:52:20 <Steven> Benjamin: We need to define the cut between the RDFa DOM API and the triplestore API

Benjamin Adrian: We need to define the cut between the RDFa DOM API and the triplestore API

15:52:46 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:52:57 <Steven> Manu: Big unanswered question

Manu Sporny: Big unanswered question

15:53:05 <Steven> Ivan: Toby collected some APIs as examples

Ivan Herman: Toby collected some APIs as examples

15:53:09 <tinkster> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDF-API

Toby Inkster: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDF-API

15:53:19 <manu> q+ to discuss how this hooks into ODF and SVG

Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss how this hooks into ODF and SVG

15:53:23 <manu> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

15:53:31 <Steven> ... but what a triplestore API can do in a browser is unclear at the moment

... but what a triplestore API can do in a browser is unclear at the moment

15:54:05 <Steven> ... it is right to divide them

... it is right to divide them

15:54:23 <manu> ack Manu

Manu Sporny: ack Manu

15:54:23 <Zakim> Manu, you wanted to discuss how this hooks into ODF and SVG

Zakim IRC Bot: Manu, you wanted to discuss how this hooks into ODF and SVG

15:54:26 <Steven> ... for the time being, treat as separate

... for the time being, treat as separate

15:54:39 <ShaneM> +1 to permitting extracted triples to be put into a local triple store

Shane McCarron: +1 to permitting extracted triples to be put into a local triple store

15:55:04 <Steven> Manu: We may want to decide if there are triggers that require the one API to use the other

Manu Sporny: We may want to decide if there are triggers that require the one API to use the other

15:55:25 <Steven> ... safety and privacy issues need attention

... safety and privacy issues need attention

15:55:34 <Steven> ... shouldn't focus on the triplestore API

... shouldn't focus on the triplestore API

15:55:59 <Steven> ... we may want to see how the DOM API matches the SVG DOM API

... we may want to see how the DOM API matches the SVG DOM API

15:56:05 <Steven> ... and there's ODF as well

... and there's ODF as well

15:56:17 <Steven> Rob: No standardised DOM representation as of now

Robert Weir: No standardised DOM representation as of now

15:56:28 <Steven> Manu: We should watch that though

Manu Sporny: We should watch that though

15:56:40 <Steven> .. and talk to Doug Schepers too

.. and talk to Doug Schepers too

15:57:02 <Steven> Ivan: I have used the SVG DOM, I don't foresee a problem

Ivan Herman: I have used the SVG DOM, I don't foresee a problem

15:57:16 <Steven> ... it is a read-only API

... it is a read-only API

15:57:35 <Benjamin> q+ to talk about the first sketch at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDFa-DOM-API

Benjamin Adrian: q+ to talk about the first sketch at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDFa-DOM-API

15:57:46 <Steven> ... only if we start adding and removing triples do I see a problem

... only if we start adding and removing triples do I see a problem

15:57:49 <manu> ack Benjamin

Manu Sporny: ack Benjamin

15:57:49 <Zakim> Benjamin, you wanted to talk about the first sketch at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDFa-DOM-API

Zakim IRC Bot: Benjamin, you wanted to talk about the first sketch at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/RDFa-DOM-API

15:58:07 <Steven> Benjamin: Just to mention the first version

Benjamin Adrian: Just to mention the first version

15:58:38 <ShaneM> Do we envision this is a 'live' list that is updated as there are mutation events, or a static list that must be updated by the developer as needed?

Shane McCarron: Do we envision this is a 'live' list that is updated as there are mutation events, or a static list that must be updated by the developer as needed?

15:58:38 <Steven> ... we should play with it

... we should play with it

15:58:41 <Steven> ... try it out

... try it out

15:58:51 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:58:57 <manu> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

15:59:23 <Steven> Ivan: Looking at the microdata API would be a good comparison

Ivan Herman: Looking at the microdata API would be a good comparison

15:59:24 <manu> q+ to end the meeting.

Manu Sporny: q+ to end the meeting.

15:59:40 <Steven> ... try to keep them similar

... try to keep them similar

15:59:44 <tinkster> IIRC microdata API is quite resource-based, whereas current RDFa suggestion quite triple-based.

Toby Inkster: IIRC microdata API is quite resource-based, whereas current RDFa suggestion quite triple-based.

15:59:59 <Steven> ack me

ack me

16:00:04 <Steven> q+

q+

16:00:25 <manu> ack Manu

Manu Sporny: ack Manu

16:00:25 <Zakim> Manu, you wanted to end the meeting.

Zakim IRC Bot: Manu, you wanted to end the meeting.

16:00:27 <Steven> Ivan: Don't forget the time changes

Ivan Herman: Don't forget the time changes

16:00:28 <manu> ack Steven

Manu Sporny: ack Steven

16:01:05 <Steven> Steven: Ivan and I can't make the call in two week's time, because of the W3C AC meeting, and Ivan will miss the week after that as well. We should both be here next week.

Steven Pemberton: Ivan and I can't make the call in two week's time, because of the W3C AC meeting, and Ivan will miss the week after that as well. We should both be here next week.

16:01:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

16:01:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-rdfa-minutes.html Steven



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