Meeting Record

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RDF in XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 09 October 2008

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0099.html

Present

Unknown Ralph_Swick, Unknown Steven_Pemberton, Unknown Mark_Birbeck, Unknown Shane_McCarron, Unknown Manu_Sporny

Regrets

Unknown Ben, Unknown Michael

Chair

Unknown Manu_Sporny

Scribe

Unknown Ralph_Swick

Previous Meeting

http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Action Review
RDFa attributes in SVG Tiny
Thoughts on Latest Primer
Axel Polleres' comments
Publishing Issues
Dean Edridge's comments

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14:54:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-irc ←

14:54:23 <msporny> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown msporny: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

14:54:23 <Zakim> ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←

14:54:39 <msporny> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force

14:55:20 <msporny> Present: Ralph_Swick, Steven_Pemberton, Mark_Birbeck, Shane_McCarron, Manu_Sporny

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph_Swick' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven_Pemberton' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark_Birbeck' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane_McCarron' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu_Sporny' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

14:55:32 <msporny> Regrets: Michael_Hausenblas, Ben_Adida

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael_Hausenblas' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

14:55:39 <msporny> Chair: Manu_Sporny

14:55:56 <msporny> rrsagent, make log public

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown msporny: rrsagent, make log public ←

14:56:02 <msporny> rrsagent, draft minutes

Unknown msporny: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:56:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html msporny

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html msporny ←

14:56:10 <Steven> back

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: back ←

14:56:32 <ShaneM> I will be here

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: I will be here ←

14:56:54 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-10-02

Unknown Ralph_Swick: -> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-10-02 ←

14:56:55 <msporny> previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html

14:57:02 <msporny> woops :)

Unknown msporny: woops :) ←

14:57:11 <Ralph> :)

Unknown Ralph_Swick: :) ←

14:57:33 <msporny> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0099.html

14:58:27 <msporny> mind scribing, Ralph?

Unknown msporny: mind scribing, Ralph? ←

14:58:36 <Ralph> scribe: Ralph

(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph_Swick)

14:59:18 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

14:59:39 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

15:00:12 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

15:00:12 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:00:13 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:00:32 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←

15:00:39 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P21

Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??P21 ←

15:00:39 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it ←

15:01:01 <Zakim> +McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←

15:02:31 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm adding RDFa to the XHTML namespace document (XHTML version) too

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I'm adding RDFa to the XHTML namespace document (XHTML version) too ←

15:02:36 <Ralph> ... to get http://www.w3.org/2007/08/grddl/?docAddr=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F1999%2Fxhtml%2FOverview.xhtml&output=turtleplain to work

... to get http://www.w3.org/2007/08/grddl/?docAddr=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F1999%2Fxhtml%2FOverview.xhtml&output=turtleplain to work ←

15:02:47 <Ralph> regrets: Ben, Michael

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:02:57 <Ralph> regrets+ Mark

regrets+ Mark ←

15:03:24 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review

1. Action Review

15:03:42 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial changes for the WG to review next week [recorded in ACTION-17]">http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-17] ←

15:03:42 <Ralph>

←

15:04:10 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in ACTION-19]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-19] ←

15:04:30 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

15:06:51 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

15:06:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

15:07:24 <Ralph> Ralph: I've been asked to demonstrate that our GRDDL namespace markup works via http://www.w3.org/2007/08/grddl

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I've been asked to demonstrate that our GRDDL namespace markup works via http://www.w3.org/2007/08/grddl ←

15:07:27 <Zakim> + +0208761aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208761aaaa ←

15:07:36 <Ralph> zakim, aaaa is Mark

zakim, aaaa is Mark ←

15:07:36 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am aaaa ←

15:07:38 <Zakim> +Mark; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mark; got it ←

15:07:39 <Ralph> regrets- Mark

regrets- Mark ←

15:07:41 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'aaaa' ←

15:08:14 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-04] ←

15:08:24 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] ←

15:08:35 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

15:08:43 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

15:08:50 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←

15:08:57 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] ←

15:09:04 <Ralph> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15] ←

15:09:33 <Ralph> agenda+ RDFa attributes in SVG Tiny [Steven]

agenda+ RDFa attributes in SVG Tiny [Steven] ←

15:09:57 <Ralph> next item

next item ←

15:10:05 <Ralph> zakim, take up item 1

zakim, take up item 1 ←

15:10:05 <Zakim> agendum 1. "RDFa attributes in SVG Tiny" taken up [from Steven via Ralph]

2. RDFa attributes in SVG Tiny

15:10:08 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/metadata.html#MetadataAttributes

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/metadata.html#MetadataAttributes ←

15:10:39 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0097.html Late notice: RDFa in SVG 1.2 'tiny' [Steven 2008-10-09]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0097.html Late notice: RDFa in SVG 1.2 'tiny' [Steven 2008-10-09] ←

15:11:11 <Ralph> Manu: should we suggest they adopt RDFa more closely?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: should we suggest they adopt RDFa more closely? ←

15:11:34 <Ralph> Mark: they insist on a:b format which is incorrect

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: they insist on a:b format which is incorrect ←

15:11:52 <Ralph> ... it would be a shame to insist on this

... it would be a shame to insist on this ←

15:12:16 <Ralph> Manu: so ask that they not misuse @property and @typeof

Unknown Manu_Sporny: so ask that they not misuse @property and @typeof ←

15:12:27 <Ralph> Shane: I'm planning to send the same comment w.r.t. @role

Unknown Shane_McCarron: I'm planning to send the same comment w.r.t. @role ←

15:12:55 <Ralph> Manu: so ask the SVG folk to follow the pattern of RDFa usage set by XHTML

Unknown Manu_Sporny: so ask the SVG folk to follow the pattern of RDFa usage set by XHTML ←

15:13:18 <Ralph> ... if you choose to use these [RDFa] attributes

... if you choose to use these [RDFa] attributes ←

15:13:43 <Ralph> Shane: yes, there are modules and those modules should be used -- and the modules have behavioral characteristics

Unknown Shane_McCarron: yes, there are modules and those modules should be used -- and the modules have behavioral characteristics ←

15:13:56 <Ralph> Manu: I'll try to write up a draft comment today

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I'll try to write up a draft comment today ←

15:14:36 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to create SVG Tiny draft comment and send to RDFa list for feedback before sending to SVG Tiny workgroup.

ACTION: Manu to create SVG Tiny draft comment and send to RDFa list for feedback before sending to SVG Tiny workgroup. ←

15:15:09 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0101.html Dan Brickley's comment on requiring a:b for RDFa in SVG tiny

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0101.html Dan Brickley's comment on requiring a:b for RDFa in SVG tiny ←

15:15:24 <Ralph> Topic: Thoughts on Latest Primer

3. Thoughts on Latest Primer

15:15:45 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0093.html Primer, and regrets for tomorrow [Ben 2008-10-08]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0093.html Primer, and regrets for tomorrow [Ben 2008-10-08] ←

15:15:55 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/

Unknown msporny: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/ ←

15:16:01 <Ralph> Manu: Section 4.1 added

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Section 4.1 added ←

15:17:14 <Ralph> Shane: typo in 4.1; s/2. Distributing and/2. Distributing an/

Unknown Shane_McCarron: typo in 4.1; s/2. Distributing and/2. Distributing an/ ←

15:17:41 <Ralph> Manu: 4.1 looks good to me

Unknown Manu_Sporny: 4.1 looks good to me ←

15:17:43 <Ralph> Ralph: me too

Unknown Ralph_Swick: me too ←

15:18:00 <Ralph> Shane: looks fine

Unknown Shane_McCarron: looks fine ←

15:18:03 <Ralph> Steven: yep

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: yep ←

15:19:34 <markbirbeck> s/RDF extensibility is the same that enables/RDF extensibility is the same as that which enables/

Unknown markbirbeck: s/RDF extensibility is the same that enables/RDF extensibility is the same as that which enables/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

15:20:00 <markbirbeck> s/Once an RDF vocabulary created/Once an RDF vocabulary is created/

Unknown markbirbeck: s/Once an RDF vocabulary created/Once an RDF vocabulary is created/ (warning: replacement failed) ←

15:20:08 <Ralph> Mark: typo in 4.1, 2nd sentence; "RDF extensibility is the same that enables RDFa extensibility"

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: typo in 4.1, 2nd sentence; "RDF extensibility is the same that enables RDFa extensibility" ←

15:20:37 <Ralph> Ralph: just insert "mechanism" after "same"

Unknown Ralph_Swick: just insert "mechanism" after "same" ←

15:21:10 <Ralph> Mark: 3rd sentence; "Once an RDF vocabulary /+is+/ created,  ..."

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: 3rd sentence; "Once an RDF vocabulary /+is+/ created, ..." ←

15:22:18 <Ralph> Mark: not sure this is territory we should get into

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: not sure this is territory we should get into ←

15:22:29 <Ralph> Ralph: I do think this minimal information is needed

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I do think this minimal information is needed ←

15:22:48 <Ralph> Mark: people who don't know this won't be able to do it from this text; they'll need a pointer to more

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: people who don't know this won't be able to do it from this text; they'll need a pointer to more ←

15:22:57 <Ralph> Ralph: exactly, the pointer is there in paragraph 2

Unknown Ralph_Swick: exactly, the pointer is there in paragraph 2 ←

15:23:08 <Ralph> Shane: I'm with Ralph

Unknown Shane_McCarron: I'm with Ralph ←

15:23:18 <Ralph> Mark: we could say a full description is out of scope

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: we could say a full description is out of scope ←

15:23:30 <Ralph> Shane: point to our vocab document?  It's also written in RDFa

Unknown Shane_McCarron: point to our vocab document? It's also written in RDFa ←

15:24:47 <Ralph> Ralph: I favor a minimalist approach in this document

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I favor a minimalist approach in this document ←

15:24:57 <Ralph> Mark: the point we're stressing is in the first paragraph

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: the point we're stressing is in the first paragraph ←

15:25:51 <Ralph> ... not a show stopper; this text is OK

... not a show stopper; this text is OK ←

15:26:38 <Ralph> ... though I suggest adding "Though it is beyond the scope of this document,

... though I suggest adding "Though it is beyond the scope of this document, ←

15:26:52 <Ralph> ... before "At a high level"

... before "At a high level" ←

15:27:15 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0075.html

Unknown msporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0075.html ←

15:27:18 <Ralph> Topic: Axel Polleres' comments

4. Axel Polleres' comments

15:27:22 <markbirbeck> Maybe: "Although it's beyond the scope of this primer to explain the process in detail, here is a high-level description of the process to help authors to find more information."

Scribe problem: the name 'Maybe' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Maybe: "Although it's beyond the scope of this primer to explain the process in detail, here is a high-level description of the process to help authors to find more information." [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

15:27:45 <Ralph> Manu: Axel's comments point to a small bit of confusion on how to resolve CURIEs

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Axel's comments point to a small bit of confusion on how to resolve CURIEs ←

15:29:05 <Ralph> Ralph: most of this is editorial but the first part points to a typo

Unknown Ralph_Swick: most of this is editorial but the first part points to a typo ←

15:29:37 <Ralph> Shane: yep

Unknown Shane_McCarron: yep ←

15:29:41 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0081.html Ben's reply

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0081.html Ben's reply ←

15:30:02 <Ralph> Shane: I believe everything in Axel's message is taken care of

Unknown Shane_McCarron: I believe everything in Axel's message is taken care of ←

15:30:31 <Ralph> ... in 5.5 step 9 there was a suggested addition on which I wanted Mark's review

... in 5.5 step 9 there was a suggested addition on which I wanted Mark's review ←

15:31:17 <Ralph> Mark: I'll try to look at this thread this evening

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: I'll try to look at this thread this evening ←

15:32:26 <Ralph> Shane: if Mark agrees on this change (see "Mark's agreement and explicit wording" in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0082.html ) I'll make it, otherwise not

Unknown Shane_McCarron: if Mark agrees on this change (see "Mark's agreement and explicit wording" in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0082.html ) I'll make it, otherwise not ←

15:32:38 <Ralph> ... some of DERI's comments were good catches

... some of DERI's comments were good catches ←

15:35:24 <msporny> scibenick: msporny

Scribe problem: the name 'scibenick' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown scibenick: msporny [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:35:35 <msporny> Topic: Publishing Issues

5. Publishing Issues

15:35:57 <msporny> ShaneM: We should be listing the task force participants, semweb participants

Unknown ShaneM: We should be listing the task force participants, semweb participants [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:36:14 <msporny> ShaneM: and XHTML2 WG

Unknown ShaneM: and XHTML2 WG [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:36:31 <msporny> Ralph: those lists are available, do you need me to send them to you?

Unknown Ralph_Swick: those lists are available, do you need me to send them to you? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:36:42 <msporny> ShaneM: yes.

Unknown ShaneM: yes. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:36:49 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph send Shane the lists of participants

ACTION: Ralph send Shane the lists of participants ←

15:37:18 <msporny> Manu: anything else we need?

Unknown Manu_Sporny: anything else we need? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ] ←

15:37:57 <Ralph> Manu: looking at the updated XHTML vocab document, I discovered that my code was generating some wrong URIs

Unknown Manu_Sporny: looking at the updated XHTML vocab document, I discovered that my code was generating some wrong URIs ←

15:38:05 <msporny> [base] == http://example.org/foo.html#bar

Unknown msporny: [base] == http://example.org/foo.html#bar ←

15:38:08 <Ralph> ... because the base URI was different from what I expected

... because the base URI was different from what I expected ←

15:38:25 <Ralph> ... when you pass in this base the fragment is included in the base

... when you pass in this base the fragment is included in the base ←

15:38:27 <msporny> about="#baz"

Unknown msporny: about="#baz" ←

15:38:37 <msporny> http://example.org/foo.html#bar#baz

Unknown msporny: http://example.org/foo.html#bar#baz ←

15:38:49 <Ralph> ^ an incorrect URI

^ an incorrect URI ←

15:39:20 <Ralph> Manu: this isn't an issue with RDFa; it's an issue with parser code if the parser implementor forgets to strip off fragments

Unknown Manu_Sporny: this isn't an issue with RDFa; it's an issue with parser code if the parser implementor forgets to strip off fragments ←

15:39:31 <ShaneM> current draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081004/#s_curieprocessing

Unknown ShaneM: current draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081004/#s_curieprocessing ←

15:39:48 <Ralph> Manu: but we don't explicitly mention the need to strip fragments from base

Unknown Manu_Sporny: but we don't explicitly mention the need to strip fragments from base ←

15:40:05 <Ralph> Shane: in section 5.2 we define "the base"

Unknown Shane_McCarron: in section 5.2 we define "the base" ←

15:40:14 <Ralph> ... "usually the URL of the document being processed"

... "usually the URL of the document being processed" ←

15:41:16 <Ralph> Mark: elsewhere I thought we'd said something about this because when you work out the code for @about="" you have to remove the fragment

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: elsewhere I thought we'd said something about this because when you work out the code for @about="" you have to remove the fragment ←

15:41:39 <Ralph> ... don't we talk about this in the text about HEAD and BODY

... don't we talk about this in the text about HEAD and BODY ←

15:41:47 <Ralph> Steven: but this is part of URI spec

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: but this is part of URI spec ←

15:41:53 <Ralph> Shane: however, we don't explicitly say it

Unknown Shane_McCarron: however, we don't explicitly say it ←

15:42:15 <Ralph> Steven: the definition of an empty string string for relative URIs is that the fragment gets dropped

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: the definition of an empty string string for relative URIs is that the fragment gets dropped ←

15:42:31 <Ralph> Shane: it's more than this; it's "what does base mean"; we concatenate to base

Unknown Shane_McCarron: it's more than this; it's "what does base mean"; we concatenate to base ←

15:42:42 <Ralph> Mark: no, we resolve relative to base -- not concatenate

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: no, we resolve relative to base -- not concatenate ←

15:43:38 <Ralph> Shane: 5.4 describes what happens when CURIEs are resolved

Unknown Shane_McCarron: 5.4 describes what happens when CURIEs are resolved ←

15:44:04 <Ralph> Mark: "... any relative URIs will need to be resolved relative to the base URI..."

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: "... any relative URIs will need to be resolved relative to the base URI..." ←

15:45:04 <markbirbeck> Also, 5.4.2:

Unknown markbirbeck: Also, 5.4.2: ←

15:45:07 <markbirbeck> Note that it is generally considered a good idea not to use relative paths in namespace declarations, but since it is possible that an author may ignore this guidance, it is further possible that the URI obtained from a CURIE is relative. However, since all URIs must be resolved relative to [base] before being used to create triples, the use of relative paths should not have any effect on processing.

Unknown markbirbeck: Note that it is generally considered a good idea not to use relative paths in namespace declarations, but since it is possible that an author may ignore this guidance, it is further possible that the URI obtained from a CURIE is relative. However, since all URIs must be resolved relative to [base] before being used to create triples, the use of relative paths should not have any effect on processing. ←

15:45:28 <Ralph> Ralph: I don't think we need to say anything more than what is currently in 5.4

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I don't think we need to say anything more than what is currently in 5.4 ←

15:45:55 <Ralph> Shane: the only additional thing we might do is cite the production for relative URI

Unknown Shane_McCarron: the only additional thing we might do is cite the production for relative URI ←

15:46:26 <Ralph> Mark: however, base can be a relative URI and this would emphasize that the resolution algorithm must be applied

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: however, base can be a relative URI and this would emphasize that the resolution algorithm must be applied ←

15:46:29 <msporny> URL RFC: Section 5.1: If the

Unknown msporny: URL RFC: Section 5.1: If the ←

15:46:29 <msporny>    base URI is obtained from a URI reference, then that reference must

Unknown msporny: base URI is obtained from a URI reference, then that reference must ←

15:46:29 <msporny>    be converted to absolute form and stripped of any fragment component

Unknown msporny: be converted to absolute form and stripped of any fragment component ←

15:46:29 <msporny>    prior to its use as a base URI.

Unknown msporny: prior to its use as a base URI. ←

15:46:55 <Ralph> Mark: the algorithm is _always_ 'resolve this path relative to this other path'

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: the algorithm is _always_ 'resolve this path relative to this other path' ←

15:47:30 <Ralph> ... we don't have to say base is absolute; we just have to say that everything is resolved according to this algorithm

... we don't have to say base is absolute; we just have to say that everything is resolved according to this algorithm ←

15:49:34 <Ralph> ... the markup need not contain an absolute URI in @base but by the time one gets to applying the RFC algorithm, the base URI will become absolute

... the markup need not contain an absolute URI in @base but by the time one gets to applying the RFC algorithm, the base URI will become absolute ←

15:49:46 <Ralph> Manu: I'm worried that we don't have a test case

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I'm worried that we don't have a test case ←

15:50:06 <Ralph> ... we should add a test that has @base with a fragment

... we should add a test that has @base with a fragment ←

15:50:16 <Ralph> ... and a relative @about

... and a relative @about ←

15:50:23 <msporny> base="http://example.org/test.html#foo"

Unknown msporny: base="http://example.org/test.html#foo" ←

15:50:29 <msporny> about="#baz"

Unknown msporny: about="#baz" ←

15:50:33 <Ralph> Mark: this is the same scenario as navigating to a document with a fragment in the URI

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: this is the same scenario as navigating to a document with a fragment in the URI ←

15:50:43 <Ralph> ... the base URI of the document is the URI without the fragment

... the base URI of the document is the URI without the fragment ←

15:50:47 <msporny> The URL that should be generated should be: "http://example.org/test.html#baz"

Unknown msporny: The URL that should be generated should be: "http://example.org/test.html#baz" ←

15:50:58 <Ralph> Shane: what spec says that the base in that scenario doesn't have a fragment?

Unknown Shane_McCarron: what spec says that the base in that scenario doesn't have a fragment? ←

15:52:42 <Ralph> Ralph: I don't see that it matters whether the fragment happened to have been stored with the base or not; it's clear that after applying the resolution algorithm any fragment given with the base drops out

Unknown Ralph_Swick: I don't see that it matters whether the fragment happened to have been stored with the base or not; it's clear that after applying the resolution algorithm any fragment given with the base drops out ←

15:52:54 <Ralph> Shane: so @about="" should resolve to a URI without a fragment?

Unknown Shane_McCarron: so @about="" should resolve to a URI without a fragment? ←

15:52:56 <Ralph> Ralph, Mark: yes

Ralph, Mark: yes ←

15:53:07 <Ralph> Shane: ah, so we need a test case for that

Unknown Shane_McCarron: ah, so we need a test case for that ←

15:53:31 <Ralph> ... actually, it's the absence of @about we should test, because @about="" does get run through the resolver

... actually, it's the absence of @about we should test, because @about="" does get run through the resolver ←

15:54:04 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base]

ACTION: Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] ←

15:54:29 <msporny> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0027.html

Unknown msporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0027.html ←

15:54:35 <Ralph> Topic: Dean Edridge's comments

6. Dean Edridge's comments

15:55:42 <Ralph> Shane: DOCTYPE was moved to Appendix C _informative_

Unknown Shane_McCarron: DOCTYPE was moved to Appendix C _informative_ ←

15:55:56 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081004/#docconf

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-rdfa-syntax-20081004/#docconf ←

15:56:58 <Ralph> Ralph: we have considered this issue before and there is no new evidence presented

Unknown Ralph_Swick: we have considered this issue before and there is no new evidence presented ←

15:57:09 <Ralph> Shane: the additional evidence is HTML5

Unknown Shane_McCarron: the additional evidence is HTML5 ←

15:57:38 <Ralph> ... we could point out that Appendix C says that if the author _does_ want to DTD validate, here's how to do it

... we could point out that Appendix C says that if the author _does_ want to DTD validate, here's how to do it ←

15:58:12 <Ralph> Steven: it seems that they want any document without a DOCTYPE to be interpreted as HTML5

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: it seems that they want any document without a DOCTYPE to be interpreted as HTML5 ←

15:59:34 <Ralph> ... a formal reply should come from Ben, as Chair, saying we've discussed this already and we're not seeing any new information

... a formal reply should come from Ben, as Chair, saying we've discussed this already and we're not seeing any new information ←

16:01:08 <Ralph> Shane: we already sent him that answer and he wasn't happy so it needs to come from the Chair, and point also to Appendix C

Unknown Shane_McCarron: we already sent him that answer and he wasn't happy so it needs to come from the Chair, and point also to Appendix C ←

16:02:28 <Ralph> Steven: and in 4.1 Document Conformance, we have "There SHOULD be a @version attribute ..."

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: and in 4.1 Document Conformance, we have "There SHOULD be a @version attribute ..." ←

16:05:21 <Ralph> [adjourned]

[adjourned] ←

16:05:24 <Ralph> zakim, list attendees

zakim, list attendees ←

16:05:24 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Steven, msporny, McCarron, +0208761aaaa, Mark

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Steven, msporny, McCarron, +0208761aaaa, Mark ←

16:05:32 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

rrsagent, please draft minutes ←

16:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←

16:12:06 <markbirbeck> <span xmlns:foo="bah">

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Unknown markbirbeck: <span xmlns:foo="bah"> ←

16:12:12 <markbirbeck> foo:x

Scribe problem: the name 'foo' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown foo: x [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:12:29 <markbirbeck> foo

Unknown markbirbeck: foo ←

16:13:32 <markbirbeck> next, license

Unknown markbirbeck: next, license ←

16:13:51 <markbirbeck> xmlns:next="....#nat"

Scribe problem: the name 'xmlns' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown xmlns: next="....#next" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:13:58 <markbirbeck> s/nat/next/

16:15:33 <msporny> prefix="hcard=http://microformats.org/vocab#hcard fn=http://microformats.org/vocab#fn"

Unknown msporny: prefix="hcard=http://microformats.org/vocab#hcard fn=http://microformats.org/vocab#fn" ←

16:15:39 <Steven> For the record, I like the approach

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: For the record, I like the approach ←

16:16:10 <msporny> <div typeof="hcard">...<span property="fn">My Name</span></div>

Unknown msporny: <div typeof="hcard">...<span property="fn">My Name</span></div> ←

16:19:25 <msporny> thanks for staying Steven :)

Unknown msporny: thanks for staying Steven :) ←

16:23:14 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

16:24:59 <msporny> <div profile="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard">...</div>

Unknown msporny: <div profile="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard">...</div> ←

16:26:01 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:31:08 <msporny> <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard">...</div>

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard">...</div> ←

16:32:15 <msporny> <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard dc=http://dublincore.com/whatever#">...</div>

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard dc=http://dublincore.com/whatever#">...</div> ←

16:35:43 <ShaneM> http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies ←

16:40:16 <markbirbeck> rel="foo"

Unknown markbirbeck: rel="foo" ←

16:40:50 <markbirbeck> rel=":foo"

Unknown markbirbeck: rel=":foo" ←

16:41:13 <markbirbeck> prefix="foo=http:///..."

Unknown markbirbeck: prefix="foo=http:///..." ←

16:41:21 <markbirbeck> xmlns:foo="..."

Unknown xmlns: foo="..." [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:51:58 <ShaneM> dc:author

Scribe problem: the name 'dc' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 10 minutes)

Unknown dc: author [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ShaneM ] ←

16:52:08 <ShaneM> xmlns:dc="laksjdad"

Unknown xmlns: dc="laksjdad" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ShaneM ] ←

16:52:55 <markbirbeck> <div token="x=y">

Unknown markbirbeck: <div token="x=y"> ←

16:53:14 <markbirbeck> token:z

Scribe problem: the name 'token' does not match any of the 8 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Ralph_Swick Unknown Steven_Pemberton Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Shane_McCarron Unknown Manu_Sporny Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown token: z [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:53:42 <markbirbeck> xmlns:token

Unknown xmlns: token [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ] ←

16:54:18 <msporny> <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard http://microformats.org/vocab/haudio">...</div>

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard http://microformats.org/vocab/haudio">...</div> ←

16:54:46 <msporny> <div profile="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard http://microformats.org/vocab/haudio">...</div>

Unknown msporny: <div profile="http://microformats.org/vocab/hcard http://microformats.org/vocab/haudio">...</div> ←

16:55:29 <markbirbeck> <div include="...">

Unknown markbirbeck: <div include="..."> ←

16:58:30 <msporny> <div prefix="dc=http://dcterms.org/vocab">

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="dc=http://dcterms.org/vocab"> ←

16:58:35 <msporny> <div prefix="http://dcterms.org/vocab">

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="http://dcterms.org/vocab"> ←

16:59:38 <msporny> <div prefix="http://dcterms.org/vocab http://haudio.org/vocab">...</div>

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="http://dcterms.org/vocab http://haudio.org/vocab">...</div> ←

17:00:24 <markbirbeck> @prefix => @xmlns:x

Unknown markbirbeck: @prefix => @xmlns:x ←

17:01:06 <markbirbeck> @profile => XInclude for RDFa

Unknown markbirbeck: @profile => XInclude for RDFa ←

17:02:50 <markbirbeck> @token="fn=http://...hcard#fn"

Unknown markbirbeck: @token="fn=http://...hcard#fn" ←

17:03:16 <markbirbeck> property="fn"

Unknown markbirbeck: property="fn" ←

17:03:45 <markbirbeck> fn[:[x]]

Unknown markbirbeck: fn[:[x]] ←

17:04:45 <Zakim> -Mark

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mark ←

17:14:09 <msporny> DEFAULT_TOKENS=http://.../

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Unknown msporny: DEFAULT_TOKENS=http://.../ ←

17:15:50 <ShaneM> _=http:

Unknown ShaneM: _=http: ←

17:16:10 <msporny> INCLUDE=http://microformats.org/vocab

Unknown msporny: INCLUDE=http://microformats.org/vocab ←

17:16:12 <ShaneM> =http:/

Unknown ShaneM: =http:/ ←

17:16:27 <msporny> =http://microformats.org/vocab

Unknown msporny: =http://microformats.org/vocab ←

17:17:40 <msporny> <div prefix="=http://w3.org/xhtml/vocab">

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="=http://w3.org/xhtml/vocab"> ←

17:17:48 <msporny> <div prefix="=http://w3.org/xhtml/vocab http://microformats.org/vocab">

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="=http://w3.org/xhtml/vocab http://microformats.org/vocab"> ←

17:17:50 <ShaneM> foo=URI means map; =URI means map default; URI means load URI

Unknown ShaneM: foo=URI means map; =URI means map default; URI means load URI ←

17:18:24 <msporny> <div prefix="=http://w3.org/svg/vocab http://microformats.org/vocab">

Unknown msporny: <div prefix="=http://w3.org/svg/vocab http://microformats.org/vocab"> ←

17:19:21 <ShaneM> and "URI means load URI" is equivalent to profile="URI" in the head

Unknown ShaneM: and "URI means load URI" is equivalent to profile="URI" in the head ←

17:19:30 <ShaneM> except scoped, of course

Unknown ShaneM: except scoped, of course ←

17:23:25 <ShaneM> http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies#Defining_a_prefix_mapping

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Vocabularies#Defining_a_prefix_mapping ←

17:30:34 <Zakim> -msporny

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny ←

17:30:36 <Zakim> -McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←

17:30:36 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

17:30:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Steven, msporny, McCarron, +0208761aaaa, Mark

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, Steven, msporny, McCarron, +0208761aaaa, Mark ←

Formatted by CommonScribe