Meeting Record

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Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, msporny; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu_Sporny' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu_Sporny' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark_Birbeck' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven_Pemberton' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: [DONE] ACTION: Ben add Noah's comments to the tracker [recorded in ACTION-21]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-21] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

Unknown Ralph: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer [recorded in ACTION-20]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-20] ←

Unknown Ralph: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13] ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I need to talk with Ralph about this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: [CONTINES] ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. [recorded in ACTION-23]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-23] ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I've started this discussion [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: ... overall there's some push back; they'd rather I spend my time working on methods to map microformats to RDFa rather than embedding microformats in RDFa ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: ... they'd like a mapping mechanism defined that each microformats parser could use [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: ... but I have also been contacted off-line by some saying a unified markup mechanism is better than a mapping mechanism ←

Unknown Ralph: [CONTINUES] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

Unknown Ralph: [DONE] ACTION: Ralph update draft response to Noah [recorded in ACTION-22]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-22] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in ACTION-24]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-24] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in ACTION-22]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-22] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [recorded in ACTION-23]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-23] ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I have sent email to Michael, waiting to hear back [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in ACTION-22]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-22] ←

Unknown Ralph: if we want to update the Implementation Report again I think we should freeze the current one and start a new dated version [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28 Aug [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: do we need to change our test suite? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Shane: then this action is done to my satisfaction [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

Unknown Ralph: [DONE] ACTION: Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded in ACTION-21]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-21] ←

Unknown Ralph: [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←

Unknown Ralph: [DONE] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: More directly, the deployment WG charter expires in December. ←

Unknown Ralph: We have 4 major things on the deliverables list, RDFa was one of them. ←

Unknown Ralph: That doesn't need to stop us from talking about outreach, tutorials, wiki, etc. ←

Unknown Ralph: We would not find much support on SWD to extend RDFa work beyond Dec. ←

Unknown Ralph: "5. A W3C Technical Report (Working Group Note or Recommendation) specifying how to incorporate RDF semantics into HTML documents." ←

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: "RDFa, (including CURIEs) for incorporating rich (meta)data semantics into HTML documents in a way that accommodates the use of independently-developed ontologies in combination. RDFa will be developed in cooperation with the Semantic Web Deployment WG" ←

Unknown Ralph: I think it's clear that we'd get pushback if we said XHTML charter applies to HTML4/5. ←

Unknown Ralph: For RDFa 1.1, I wouldn't export any support from deployment WG. ←

Unknown Ralph: For doing RDF in non-XHTML, I think we get different pushback. ←

Unknown Ralph: We should be proposing a new charter for what we would want to do. ←

Unknown Shane: I think for RDFa + XML work we could continue under the auspices of the XHTML2 WG for as long as we want [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: Happy to carry on with RDFa until end of XHTML2 charter - end of next year. ←

Scribe problem: the name 'ralph' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: Steven, Mark, Shane - do you have a feeling on what you'd like to do. ←

Unknown Ralph: SWD has 4 separate tasks, with not much interaction between each task. ←

Unknown Steven_Pemberton: This is the reason XForms got created, it makes sense. ←

Unknown Ralph: How soon should we admit that we're starting work on RDFa 1.1? ←

Unknown ShaneM: I don't mind if this activity became its own working group.... ←

Unknown markbirbeck: If we have an ongoing, general charter, it might be okay. ←

Unknown markbirbeck: To tell people that there is stuff to add to RDFa feels a bit odd. ←

Unknown Ralph: there is stuff we have deferred; syntax for lists [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown Ralph: There are certainly features of RDF, that we don't have features for in RDFa. ←

Unknown Ralph: I think our message should be that "We recognize that there are more features to add in RDFa, but we want to see how RDFa does in the field". We need deployment experience to set the feature priorities. ←

Unknown ShaneM: I think we need to support HTML - I don't mind how we do that. ←

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: we could consider offering our experience to other groups [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ] ←

Unknown markbirbeck: This is time consuming for some people in this group. Perhaps we should focus on helping others get this right. ←

Unknown Ralph: ... we could add to our Wiki list of broader RDFa deployments; not just XHTML ←

Unknown markbirbeck: It's not just the processors, it has to do with XHTML+RDFa. ←

Unknown ShaneM: evangelism is important too - we need to find a way to continue our marketing efforts about RDFa. ←

Unknown Ralph: ... the processors we're currently documenting are all XHTML+RDFa ←

Unknown ShaneM: q+ to discuss how we spread the word that this works in HTML ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: I want to be sure that we can speak with some W3C authority when we talk with other communities ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss how we spread the word that this works in HTML ←

Unknown Shane: regardless of what we call the activity, it would be nice to have a way to spread the word that there's a way to use this with HTML; this is a 'today' problem ←

Unknown ShaneM: While we are not obligated to continue meeting, we have charter to do so through December 2008. ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: Shane, Mark, and I have been looking at this idea recently ←

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: this hasn't just come up recently; it's been in the air for a long time ←

... it just happens that certain tweaks would make things easier for microformat folk ←

... the way it's being proposed at the moment it sounds as though we're inviting lots of input from microformats community ←

... it could sound like we're proposing to incorporate microformats and that's not what we're saying ←

... the idea is to provide a mechanism for allowing people to use more unprefixed terms ←

... the current idea is to provide a mechanism for others to define unprefixed values ←

... and note that if you're a microformats person, this new mechanism looks a lot like microformats ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: agree, but we're also trying to win over the HTML5 community and the microformats community so let's not lose sight of that ←

... my immediate goal was just to write a page that speaks to the microformats people ←

Unknown ShaneM: @prefix or @xmlns is just a way of defining a "prefix" property ←

... it occurred to me that if we were to say there is a substitution string X that _sometimes_ has a suffix ←

... there would no longer be 'unprefixed' values; there would just be mappings to URIs ←

Unknown ShaneM: A CURIE is a TOKEN - all TOKENs have mappings. How those are established is... magic? ←

... if we say 'x' and 'x:y' are both CURIEs then the mapping mechanism handles both ←

... connects to an older idea of Shane's to use this as a mechanism for defining vocabularies ←

... consider CURIE as a substitution mechanism for substituting a longer string for a shorter one ←

Scribe problem: the name 'x' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: I don't disagree but this looks like a mental model that's not inconsistent with the current model ←

... in terms of the way CURIE is currently defined, these are unprefixed values ←

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: the spec currently enumerates a list of unprefixed values and says how to map them ←

Unknown Ralph: the hard thing is for strings without ':' to come from several vocabularies ←

Unknown markbirbeck: "A host language MAY interpret a reference value that is not preceded by a prefix and a colon as being a member of a host-language defined set of reserved values. Such reserved values MUST translate into an IRI, just as with any other CURIE." ←

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: what's missing from the current CURIE language is specification of a mechanism for getting new reserved values ←

... I'd put the preprocessing language in with a view that we'd later have to resolve how to define new reserved words ←

Scribe problem: the name 'xmlns' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

... I think this simply works in our current processing model with just slight changes in CURIE ←

Unknown Manu_Sporny: so the mechanism we'd use to do this -- whether @xmlns or @prefix -- would lift out each of the current reserved tokens? ←

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: we've discussed a separate mechanism for adding to the predefined tokens ←

... folk would understand this as nearly what microformats currently does but with an ugly ':' on the end ←

Scribe problem: the name 'a' does not match any of the 6 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Unknown Manu_Sporny Unknown Mark_Birbeck Unknown Steven_Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark_Birbeck: I suggest we discuss this in its own terms and not tie it so closely to microformats ←

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ShaneM, Ralph, msporny, Steven, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck, +1.540.641.aabb ←

RDF in XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 04 September 2008

1. Action Items

2. Status of this Task Force

3. RDFa Parser Reserved Word Extension Mechanism