Meeting Record

RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 28 August 2008

Agenda

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0123.html

Seen

Unknown Ben_Adida, Unknown Mark, Unknown Michael_Hausenblas, Unknown Ralph, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Steven, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown msporny

Chair

Unknown Manu

Scribe

Unknown Ralph

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

None.

Topics

Status of RDFa Syntax/Primer and CURIE spec
HTML5/RDFa discussion
Microformats.org using RDFa as expression language?

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14:55:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc ←

14:55:15 <Ralph> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

14:55:21 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa

Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ralph: zakim, this will be rdfa ←

14:55:21 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←

14:55:26 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public

Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public ←

14:55:42 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0123.html

14:56:06 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-08-21

Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-08-21 ←

14:59:37 <msporny> Did Ben send regrets?

Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown msporny: Did Ben send regrets? ←

14:59:53 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started ←

14:59:56 <msporny> ... nor Steven or Jeremy?

Unknown msporny: ... nor Steven or Jeremy? ←

15:00:02 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←

15:00:07 <ShaneM> steven said he was coming

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: steven said he was coming ←

15:00:39 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

15:00:47 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←

15:00:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←

15:01:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

15:01:19 <Zakim> +??P35

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←

15:01:25 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P35

Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??P35 ←

15:01:25 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it ←

15:01:34 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?p35

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ?p35 ←

15:01:34 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p35'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p35' ←

15:01:44 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ??p35

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ??p35 ←

15:01:44 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??p35'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??p35' ←

15:02:04 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am getting fed up with you

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am getting fed up with you ←

15:02:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'i am getting fed up with you', markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'i am getting fed up with you', markbirbeck ←

15:02:14 <msporny> zakim, I am ??IPcaller

Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??IPcaller ←

15:02:14 <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??IPcaller'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??IPcaller' ←

15:02:23 <msporny> zakim, I am IPcaller

Unknown msporny: zakim, I am IPcaller ←

15:02:23 <Zakim> ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller] ←

15:02:28 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ? ←

15:02:28 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?' ←

15:02:37 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ??P35

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ??P35 ←

15:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??P35'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??P35' ←

15:02:48 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am P35

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am P35 ←

15:02:48 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'P35'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'P35' ←

15:02:56 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?p35

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ?p35 ←

15:02:56 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p35'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '?p35' ←

15:03:11 <markbirbeck> zakim, callers

Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, callers ←

15:03:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'callers', markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'callers', markbirbeck ←

15:03:17 <Steven> zakim, call steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, call steven-617 ←

15:03:17 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:03:18 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:03:33 <Steven> zakim, drop steven

Unknown Steven: zakim, drop steven ←

15:03:33 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven is being disconnected ←

15:03:34 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

15:03:35 <Ralph> zakim, msporny is really Mark

Unknown Ralph: zakim, msporny is really Mark ←

15:03:35 <Zakim> +Mark; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mark; got it ←

15:03:45 <Ralph> zakim, ipcaller is msporny

Unknown Ralph: zakim, ipcaller is msporny ←

15:03:45 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it ←

15:04:07 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617 ←

15:04:07 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:04:09 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:04:24 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

15:04:36 <Steven> zakimm call steven-617

Unknown Steven: zakimm call steven-617 ←

15:04:44 <Steven> zakim, call steven-617

Unknown Steven: zakim, call steven-617 ←

15:04:44 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

15:04:46 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←

15:05:37 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?

Unknown Steven: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

15:05:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ralph, ShaneM, msporny, Mark, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ralph, ShaneM, msporny, Mark, Steven ←

15:06:27 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

Unknown msporny: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary ←

15:06:35 <Ralph> Chair: Manu

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu' does not match any of the 0 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names:

15:06:38 <Ralph> Scribe: Ralph

(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)

15:06:52 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]

[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in ACTION-24]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-24] ←

15:06:59 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]

[PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in ACTION-22]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-22] ←

15:07:04 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action23]

[PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [recorded in ACTION-23]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-23] ←

15:07:11 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] ←

15:07:24 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28 Aug [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28 Aug [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

15:07:28 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

[PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

15:07:29 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida ←

15:07:38 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]

[PENDING] ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in ACTION-22]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-22] ←

15:07:46 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

[PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in ACTION-03]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-03] ←

15:07:53 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

[PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

15:08:02 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

[PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←

15:08:06 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

15:09:02 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan.

ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. ←

15:09:17 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS.

ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. ←

15:09:46 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Michael to update Test Suite Manifest to correct tests 52 and 53 descriptions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

[DONE] ACTION: Michael to update Test Suite Manifest to correct tests 52 and 53 descriptions. [recorded in ACTION-02]">http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-02] ←

15:09:52 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] ←

15:09:57 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [recorded in ACTION-05]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-05] ←

15:10:01 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21]

[PENDING] ACTION: Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded in ACTION-21]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-21] ←

15:10:08 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

[PENDING] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←

15:10:14 <Ralph> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

[PENDING] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12] ←

15:10:38 <Ralph> Topic: Status of RDFa Syntax/Primer and CURIE spec

1. Status of RDFa Syntax/Primer and CURIE spec

15:10:50 <Ralph> Ben: let's not discuss CURIE spec but I'd like a status update

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Ben: let's not discuss CURIE spec but I'd like a status update ←

15:11:06 <Ralph> Steven: the TAG asked for an extension of the comment period, which we've granted

Unknown Steven: the TAG asked for an extension of the comment period, which we've granted ←

15:11:29 <Ralph> ... so the actual deadline is the XHTML2 WG f2f at the Technical Plenary week

... so the actual deadline is the XHTML2 WG f2f at the Technical Plenary week ←

15:12:04 <Ralph> Shane: we do have some editorial changes since the CURIE Last Call which you'll find reflected in the editor's draft

Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Shane: we do have some editorial changes since the CURIE Last Call which you'll find reflected in the editor's draft ←

15:12:36 <Ralph> Ben: anything the XHTML2 WG needs from us?

Unknown Ben: anything the XHTML2 WG needs from us? ←

15:12:58 <Ralph> Steven: the SemWeb Deployment WG agreed to provide a comment as well

Unknown Steven: the SemWeb Deployment WG agreed to provide a comment as well ←

15:13:24 <Ralph> Ralph: and Jeremy has that action on behalf of SWD

Unknown Ralph: and Jeremy has that action on behalf of SWD ←

15:13:45 <Ralph> Ben: RDFa Syntax has been approved to go to PR by both SWD and XHTML2 WGs

Unknown Ben: RDFa Syntax has been approved to go to PR by both SWD and XHTML2 WGs ←

15:14:08 <Ralph> ... we're missing a response from AlanR on issue 122

... we're missing a response from AlanR on ISSUE-122 ←

15:14:39 <Ralph> ... I neglected to ask the WG to explicitly review the Primer

... I neglected to ask the WG to explicitly vote to publish the Primer ←

15:14:51 <Ralph> s/review/vote to publish

15:15:14 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer

ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer ←

15:15:59 <Ralph> Ralph: what about NoahM's late comment?

Unknown Ralph: what about NoahM's late comment? ←

15:16:14 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0115.html Ralph's proposed response to Noah

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0115.html Ralph's proposed response to Noah ←

15:18:27 <msporny> +1 for clarifying that RDFa applies to XHTML.

Unknown msporny: +1 for clarifying that RDFa applies to XHTML. ←

15:18:37 <Ralph> Ralph: I propose an editorial change to the Abstract

Unknown Ralph: I propose an editorial change to the Abstract ←

15:18:39 <Steven> +1

Unknown Steven: +1 ←

15:21:46 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss conformance requirements

Unknown ShaneM: q+ to discuss conformance requirements ←

15:23:44 <Ralph> Ben: maybe the point about subsetting the graph is not correct anyway

Unknown Ben: maybe the point about subsetting the graph is not correct anyway ←

15:23:56 <Ralph> ... if a parser only produces part of the graph, it may not be doing the right thing

... if a parser only produces part of the graph, it may not be doing the right thing ←

15:24:04 <Ralph> Manu: we shouldn't say that it's OK to ignore triples

Scribe problem: the name 'Manu' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Manu: we shouldn't say that it's OK to ignore triples ←

15:24:17 <Ralph> Ben: it would only be implementing half of the parser

Unknown Ben: it would only be implementing half of the parser ←

15:24:51 <Ralph> Shane: it's easy to separate the philosophical issue from the actual comment we have received

Unknown Shane: it's easy to separate the philosophical issue from the actual comment we have received ←

15:25:04 <Ralph> ... the comment suggests that we move the _processor_ conformance requirements elsewhere

... the comment suggests that we move the _processor_ conformance requirements elsewhere ←

15:25:07 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/PR-rdfa-syntax-20080905/#s_conformance

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/PR-rdfa-syntax-20080905/#s_conformance ←

15:25:09 <Ralph> ... I disagree with this comment

... I disagree with this comment ←

15:25:15 <Ralph> ... we have 3 subsections of our conformance requirements

... we have 3 subsections of our conformance requirements ←

15:25:28 <Ralph> ... 4.1 talks about _document_ conformance and is about markup

... 4.1 talks about _document_ conformance and is about markup ←

15:25:35 <Ralph> ... 4.2 talks about user agent conformance

... 4.2 talks about user agent conformance ←

15:25:41 <Ralph> ... 4.3 talks about processor conformance

... 4.3 talks about processor conformance ←

15:25:49 <Ralph> ... these are all necessary and are all fine as they are

... these are all necessary and are all fine as they are ←

15:26:16 <Steven> q+

Unknown Steven: q+ ←

15:26:18 <Ralph> ... the philosophical discussion about whether it's ok to subset the triples would be a 4.4 and we don't need to have that discussion today

... the philosophical discussion about whether it's ok to subset the triples would be a 4.4 and we don't need to have that discussion today ←

15:26:20 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss conformance requirements

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss conformance requirements ←

15:26:43 <Ralph> ... the sort of processor we've talked about is one that gives you _all_ the triples

... the sort of processor we've talked about is one that gives you _all_ the triples ←

15:27:50 <Ralph> Ralph: agree with Shane's separation of those issues

Unknown Ralph: agree with Shane's separation of those issues ←

15:28:10 <Ralph> ... don't engage in the philosophical debate about subsetting now

... don't engage in the philosophical debate about subsetting now ←

15:28:30 <Ralph> Steven: I think Noah is thinking about optimizations

Unknown Steven: I think Noah is thinking about optimizations ←

15:28:36 <Ralph> ... we don't need to say anything about this

... we don't need to say anything about this ←

15:28:57 <Ralph> ... if an application optimizes away something and we can't tell from the outside, it doesn't matter

... if an application optimizes away something and we can't tell from the outside, it doesn't matter ←

15:29:13 <Ralph> ... if the application produces the same results as one that did not optimize, we don't care

... if the application produces the same results as one that did not optimize, we don't care ←

15:30:08 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

15:30:12 <Ralph> ... "as long as the output is the same as if the application had produced the full graph, we don't care"

... "as long as the output is the same as if the application had produced the full graph, we don't care" ←

15:30:24 <Ralph> Ben: we just talk about producing the graph

Unknown Ben: we just talk about producing the graph ←

15:30:36 <Ralph> Shane: technically we just talk about the _processor_

Unknown Shane: technically we just talk about the _processor_ ←

15:30:56 <Ralph> Ben: so the _application_ is out of our scope

Unknown Ben: so the _application_ is out of our scope ←

15:31:55 <Ralph> Mark: Noah may not be trying to distinguish between the application layer and the processor layer

Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Mark: Noah may not be trying to distinguish between the application layer and the processor layer ←

15:32:53 <Ralph> ... however, the idea of the default graph runs through both the language and the processor and I don't see a simple way to separate these quickly

... however, the idea of the default graph runs through both the language and the processor and I don't see a simple way to separate these quickly ←

15:34:09 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael_Hausenblas ←

15:34:10 <Ralph> ... I don't think the comment is so much about a distinction between application layers and processor layers

... I don't think the comment is so much about a distinction between application layers and processor layers ←

15:35:27 <Ralph> Ralph: so a combination of Shane's 3 points and the idea that the default graph is intertwined throughout makes us not wish to do a major document rearrangement at this time

Unknown Ralph: so a combination of Shane's 3 points and the idea that the default graph is intertwined throughout makes us not wish to do a major document rearrangement at this time ←

15:38:47 <Steven> I think in Noah's mail that he meant <prefix:html xmlns:prefix="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">"

Unknown Steven: I think in Noah's mail that he meant <prefix:html xmlns:prefix="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">" ←

15:39:28 <ShaneM> New test: A strictly conforming XHTML+RDFa document is a document that requires only the facilities described as mandatory in this specification. Such a document satisfies the following criteria:

Unknown ShaneM: New text: A strictly conforming XHTML+RDFa document is a document that requires only the facilities described as mandatory in this specification. Such a document satisfies the following criteria: ←

15:39:35 <ShaneM> s/test/text/

15:41:31 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben add Noah's comments to the tracker

ACTION: Ben add Noah's comments to the tracker ←

15:41:51 <Ralph> Ben: I've already written the transform to produce the CR Disposition of Comments

Unknown Ben: I've already written the transform to produce the CR Disposition of Comments ←

15:42:07 <Ralph> Shane: I've already integrated all of the changes proposed in Ralph's message

Unknown Shane: I've already integrated all of the changes proposed in Ralph's message ←

15:43:36 <Ralph> Topic: HTML5/RDFa discussion

2. HTML5/RDFa discussion

15:43:59 <Ralph> Ben: background on why this discussion is taking place now rather than later

Unknown Ben: background on why this discussion is taking place now rather than later ←

15:44:22 <Ralph> ... Creative Commons has been working on the ccRel specification for a while

... Creative Commons has been working on the ccRel specification for a while ←

15:44:39 <Ralph> ... we decided to submit it to W3C to be published as a Member Submission

... we decided to submit it to W3C to be published as a Member Submission ←

15:44:55 <Ralph> ... it got a lot of attention when W3C published it

... it got a lot of attention when W3C published it ←

15:45:00 <Ralph> ... and it mentions RDFa

... and it mentions RDFa ←

15:45:09 <Ralph> ... so that started the discussion

... so that started the discussion ←

15:46:20 <mhausenblas> -> http://news.oreilly.com/2008/08/html4ever-or-the-next-logical.html my 2c on the ongoing HTML5 discussion :)

Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://news.oreilly.com/2008/08/html4ever-or-the-next-logical.html my 2c on the ongoing HTML5 discussion :) ←

15:48:21 <Ralph> -> @@ HTML5 discussion

-> http: HTML5 discussion ←

15:49:08 <Ralph> s/@@/http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Aug/

15:52:09 <Ralph> Shane: why isn't this discussion on the HTML WG list?

Unknown Shane: why isn't this discussion on the HTML WG list? ←

15:52:14 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/ HTML WG list

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/ HTML WG list ←

15:54:39 <mhausenblas> q+ re IR

Unknown mhausenblas: q+ re IR ←

15:54:45 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←

15:54:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←

15:54:59 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

15:55:52 <ShaneM> been pondering HTML4 and RDFa - some noodling here:  http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4

Unknown ShaneM: been pondering HTML4 and RDFa - some noodling here: http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFainHTML4 ←

15:56:30 <Ralph> ACTION: Ralph update draft response to Noah

ACTION: Ralph update draft response to Noah ←

15:57:38 <Ralph> Manu: there's not a lot of understanding of RDF, RDF/XML, and RDFa and the differences within the HTML WG; we're building an understanding of the benefits of structured data in markup

Unknown Manu: there's not a lot of understanding of RDF, RDF/XML, and RDFa and the differences within the HTML WG; we're building an understanding of the benefits of structured data in markup ←

15:59:03 <Ralph> Michael: I saw Guus' announcement requesting PR transition

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Michael: I saw Guus' announcement requesting PR transition ←

15:59:10 <Ralph> ... should I update the implementation report now?

... should I update the implementation report now? ←

15:59:19 <Steven> If all design was done by paving cow paths, no one would ever build bridges

Unknown Steven: If all design was done by paving cow paths, no one would ever build bridges ←

16:01:10 <Ralph> Ralph: sure, fine to add to the Implementation Report

Unknown Ralph: sure, fine to add to the Implementation Report ←

16:01:26 <Ralph> ... it will be useful the the Director when the PR transition decision is made (next week)

... it will be useful the the Director when the PR transition decision is made (next week) ←

16:01:42 <Ralph> Topic: Microformats.org using RDFa as expression language?

3. Microformats.org using RDFa as expression language?

16:02:02 <markbirbeck> q+

Unknown markbirbeck: q+ ←

16:02:07 <Ralph> Manu: folk are getting tired of the problem that a new microformats parser is needed every time a new microformat is created

Unknown Manu: folk are getting tired of the problem that a new microformats parser is needed every time a new microformat is created ←

16:02:38 <Ralph> ... the question now being considered within the microformats community is whether to reuse the RDFa attributes but not put URIs in them

... the question now being considered within the microformats community is whether to reuse the RDFa attributes but not put URIs in them ←

16:02:45 <Ralph> ... what would we think about this?

... what would we think about this? ←

16:02:55 <Ralph> Mark: I like the sentiment but I take issue with the specifics

Unknown Mark: I like the sentiment but I take issue with the specifics ←

16:03:37 <Ralph> ... in a previous discussion we'd debated whether attributes ought to have different meanings in different contexts and decided they should not

... in a previous discussion we'd debated whether attributes ought to have different meanings in different contexts and decided they should not ←

16:03:57 <Ralph> ... now we have a fixed list of values recognized in CURIEs when they appear without a prefix

... now we have a fixed list of values recognized in CURIEs when they appear without a prefix ←

16:03:58 <benadida> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'benadida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown benadida: q+ ←

16:04:05 <Ralph> ... it would not be too hard to make that list extensible by others

... it would not be too hard to make that list extensible by others ←

16:04:30 <Ralph> ... e.g. within this DIV, unprefixed names come from <somewhere else>

... e.g. within this DIV, unprefixed names come from <somewhere else> ←

16:04:36 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss CURIEs and microformats

Unknown ShaneM: q+ to discuss CURIEs and microformats ←

16:04:41 <Ralph> ... would be a bridge between microformats and RDFa

... would be a bridge between microformats and RDFa ←

16:04:54 <Ralph> Ben: I second that

Unknown Ben: I second that ←

16:04:56 <msporny> q+

Unknown msporny: q+ ←

16:05:15 <Ralph> ... microformats repurpose some HTML attributes

... microformats repurpose some HTML attributes ←

16:05:36 <Ralph> ... and the Accessiblity community raised issues with this; e.g. misuse of @title

... and the Accessiblity community raised issues with this; e.g. misuse of @title ←

16:06:01 <Ralph> ... as RDFa explicitly ignores other unprefixed values in CURIEs, that's an extensibility opportunity

... as RDFa explicitly ignores other unprefixed values in CURIEs, that's an extensibility opportunity ←

16:06:11 <Ralph> ... but redefining @typeof would be a mistake

... but redefining @typeof would be a mistake ←

16:06:46 <Ralph> ... if the goal is to get to a single parser vs. a parser-per-microformat then our goal is to be sure that the markup always means the same thing

... if the goal is to get to a single parser vs. a parser-per-microformat then our goal is to be sure that the markup always means the same thing ←

16:06:51 <Ralph> ... so let's work on that together

... so let's work on that together ←

16:06:52 <msporny> q+ abbr pattern and semantic mis-use of elements.

Unknown msporny: q+ abbr pattern and semantic mis-use of elements. ←

16:07:13 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss CURIEs and microformats

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss CURIEs and microformats ←

16:07:38 <Ralph> Shane: our reserved values _are_ interpreted as URIs at the end of the day

Unknown Shane: our reserved values _are_ interpreted as URIs at the end of the day ←

16:08:00 <Ralph> Manu: what microformats really cares about is to be able to write @rel='title' without having to explain anything else

Unknown Manu: what microformats really cares about is to be able to write @rel='title' without having to explain anything else ←

16:08:19 <Ralph> ... their concern is that to have to add a ':' would be difficult to explain to users

... their concern is that to have to add a ':' would be difficult to explain to users ←

16:08:31 <Ralph> ... the underlying implementation is less of a concern; it's about the actual markup

... the underlying implementation is less of a concern; it's about the actual markup ←

16:09:30 <markbirbeck> I believe the key to this is to make a really simple 'flip' in CURIEs (wish we'd thought of it before). Instead of @rel="license" being an 'unprefixed' value, we should see it as 'unsuffixed'.

Unknown markbirbeck: I believe the key to this is to make a really simple 'flip' in CURIEs (wish we'd thought of it before). Instead of @rel="license" being an 'unprefixed' value, we should see it as 'unsuffixed'. ←

16:09:35 <Ralph> Shane: we'll need to prioritize where we put our effort next and this could be it if it gets the microformat community into the fold more quickly

Unknown Shane: we'll need to prioritize where we put our effort next and this could be it if it gets the microformat community into the fold more quickly ←

16:10:03 <markbirbeck> Then all we're concerned about is providing more and more techniques for defining prefixes.

Unknown markbirbeck: Then all we're concerned about is providing more and more techniques for defining prefixes. ←

16:10:16 <markbirbeck> @xmlns was always seen as only one way to define a prefix.

Unknown markbirbeck: @xmlns was always seen as only one way to define a prefix. ←

16:10:26 <Ralph> Manu: as long as there's someone from RDFa advising the microformat community we should be in good shape

Unknown Manu: as long as there's someone from RDFa advising the microformat community we should be in good shape ←

16:11:08 <Ralph> Ben: I appreciate Mark's foresight in pushing for RDFa to ignore unprefixed values

Unknown Ben: I appreciate Mark's foresight in pushing for RDFa to ignore unprefixed values ←

16:12:00 <Ralph> [adjourned]

[adjourned] ←

16:12:23 <Ralph> Michael: regrets for next week

Unknown Michael: regrets for next week ←

16:12:24 <msporny> ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs.

ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. ←

16:12:29 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

16:12:31 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas

Scribe problem: the name 'Michael_Hausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas ←

16:12:31 <Zakim> -Mark

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mark ←

16:12:32 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←

16:12:33 <Zakim> -Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←

16:12:35 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

Scribe problem: the name 'Ben_Adida' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida ←

16:12:35 <Zakim> -msporny

Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny ←

16:12:39 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm available next week but not the two weeks after that

Unknown Ralph: I'm available next week but not the two weeks after that ←

16:12:44 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←

16:12:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, ShaneM, Steven, Mark, msporny, Ben_Adida, Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, ShaneM, Steven, Mark, msporny, Ben_Adida, Michael_Hausenblas ←

16:12:55 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

rrsagent, please draft minutes ←

16:12:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←

16:13:17 <Ralph> zakim, bye

zakim, bye ←

16:13:19 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye

rrsagent, bye ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [1]

ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [1] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-09-02

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-09-02 ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [2]

ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS. [2] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-09-17

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-09-17 ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer [3]

ACTION: Ben ask SWD to approve publication of an updated RDFa Primer [3] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-15-14

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-15-14 ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben add Noah's comments to the tracker [4]

ACTION: Ben add Noah's comments to the tracker [4] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-41-31

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-41-31 ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph update draft response to Noah [5]

ACTION: Ralph update draft response to Noah [5] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-56-30

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T15-56-30 ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. [6]

ACTION: Manu to work with Microformats community to address RDFa as unified markup for uFs. [6] ←

16:13:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T16-12-24

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-rdfa-irc#T16-12-24 ←

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