edit

RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 16 October 2013

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Markus Lanthaler, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Raimond
Chair
Guus Schreiber
Scribe
Sandro Hawke
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Close issue-142 over Jeremy's (planned) formal objection link
  2. Remove "AT RISK" designation for "GRAPH Keyword" in TriG, keeping the feature link
  3. Remove "AT RISK" designation for "Unenclosed Triples" in TriG, keeping the feature link
  4. CR Exit for Semantics will be to have at least two implementations passing each approved new (RDF 1.1 only) test. link
  5. CR of 3 weeks (the minimum) link
  6. To handle Promises dependency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative. We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments received. link
  7. Resolve all AT RISK flags in JSON-LD documents as per recommendation of JSON LD Task Force, shown in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html link
Topics
14:41:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-irc

14:41:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:41:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:41:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes

14:41:50 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:41:50 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2013
14:58:28 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 16 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:58:29 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

14:59:20 <pfps> zakim, this will be rdf-wg

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this will be rdf-wg

14:59:20 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, pfps

14:59:46 <pfps> zakim, this is RDF-WG

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, this is RDF-WG

14:59:46 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not see a conference named 'RDF-WG' in progress or scheduled at this time

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I do not see a conference named 'RDF-WG' in progress or scheduled at this time

14:59:48 <Guus> trackbot, start meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, start meeting

14:59:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:59:53 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:53 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2013
14:59:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

15:00:02 <pfps> zakim, who is here?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here?

15:00:03 <Zakim> I notice SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has restarted

Zakim IRC Bot: I notice SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has restarted

15:00:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see [GVoice], Guus_Schreiber, [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [GVoice], Guus_Schreiber, [IPcaller]

15:00:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, AndyS, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, davidwood, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, AndyS, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, davidwood, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP

15:00:11 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, gvoice is me

15:00:11 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

15:00:15 <AndyS> zakim, ipcaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ipcaller is me

15:00:15 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:00:23 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

15:00:27 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

15:00:32 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P9 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P9 is me

15:00:34 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:00:36 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:01:00 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

15:01:08 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

15:01:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

15:01:21 <gavinc> issue-156?

Gavin Carothers: ISSUE-156?

15:01:21 <trackbot> issue-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

15:01:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

15:01:37 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:01:39 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:01:45 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:01:45 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:01:57 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:01:57 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:01:59 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:01:59 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:02:31 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

15:03:02 <Zakim> +AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ

15:03:22 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

15:03:28 <markus> zakim, ??P20 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P20 is me

15:03:28 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

15:03:35 <AZ> Zakim, who is here

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, who is here

15:03:35 <Zakim> AZ, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ, you need to end that query with '?'

15:03:35 <Guus> chair: Guus
15:03:35 <Guus> scribe: Sandro

(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)

15:03:40 <AZ> Zakim, who is here?

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, who is here?

15:03:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, Sandro, EricP, TallTed (muted), Ivan (muted), AZ, markus

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, AndyS, yvesr, GavinC, Sandro, EricP, TallTed (muted), Ivan (muted), AZ, markus

15:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see markus, AZ, AndyS, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, davidwood, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see markus, AZ, AndyS, Guus, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, davidwood, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP

15:03:45 <Guus> zakim, pick a scribe

Guus Schreiber: zakim, pick a scribe

15:03:45 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro

15:04:02 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

15:04:46 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, gvoice is me

15:04:47 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

15:04:51 <AndyS> zakim who is making noise?

Andy Seaborne: zakim who is making noise?

15:04:58 <AndyS> zakim, who is making noise?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is making noise?

15:05:09 <Zakim> AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (4%)

15:05:30 <AZ> weird, I've muted my phone

Antoine Zimmermann: weird, I've muted my phone

15:05:40 <ericP> mute it harder

Eric Prud'hommeaux: mute it harder

15:05:50 <ericP> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:06:56 <gavinc> -1 to accepting minutes

Gavin Carothers: -1 to accepting minutes

15:07:28 <Zakim> +David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood

15:07:31 <AndyS> issue-156?

Andy Seaborne: ISSUE-156?

15:07:31 <trackbot> issue-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

15:07:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

15:07:50 <AZ> q+ to mention problem with ACTION 309

Antoine Zimmermann: q+ to mention problem with ACTION-309

15:08:13 <sandro> guus: we'll return to the munutes later

Guus Schreiber: we'll return to the munutes later

15:08:32 <AndyS> action-309?

Andy Seaborne: ACTION-309?

15:08:32 <trackbot> action-309 -- David Wood to Make an editorial change to concepts in answer to issue-147 -- due 2013-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-309 -- David Wood to Make an editorial change to concepts in answer to ISSUE-147 -- due 2013-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:08:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/309

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/309

15:09:58 <sandro> davidwood: Sorry, AZ, I didn't realized I'd missed some of your text -- I'll fix that.

David Wood: Sorry, AZ, I didn't realized I'd missed some of your text -- I'll fix that.

15:11:01 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:11:10 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:11:10 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-irc#T15-11-10

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-irc#T15-11-10

15:12:12 <AZ> topic: LC comments on Concepts and Semantics

2. LC comments on Concepts and Semantics

15:12:14 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF_1.1_Concepts_and_Abstract_Syntax_Last_Call_Comments

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF_1.1_Concepts_and_Abstract_Syntax_Last_Call_Comments

15:12:39 <sandro> pfps: nanocomments  comment - is that just about trig?

Peter Patel-Schneider: nanocomments comment - is that just about trig?

15:12:49 <sandro> gavinc: It's more than trig

Gavin Carothers: It's more than trig

15:13:11 <sandro> gavin: I got lost in email thread with jeremy this week, on this

Gavin Carothers: I got lost in email thread with jeremy this week, on this

15:13:34 <sandro> guus: I'd like the CR decision next week, and I don't think Paul meant this as a formal comment.

Guus Schreiber: I'd like the CR decision next week, and I don't think Paul meant this as a formal comment.

15:14:08 <sandro> gavin: I'll reply later today, saying Trig says it's okay, and formal meaning is application dependent.

Gavin Carothers: I'll reply later today, saying Trig says it's okay, and formal meaning is application dependent.

15:14:21 <sandro> issue-150

ISSUE-150

15:14:21 <trackbot> issue-150 -- LC Comment: references and acknowledgements -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-150 -- LC Comment: references and acknowledgements -- open

15:14:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/150

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/150

15:14:26 <sandro> guus: purely editorial

Guus Schreiber: purely editorial

15:14:45 <sandro> issue-142

ISSUE-142

15:14:45 <trackbot> issue-142 -- LC comment: rdfs:Graph ? comment -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-142 -- LC comment: rdfs:Graph ? comment -- open

15:14:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/142

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/142

15:14:57 <sandro> guus: discussed extensively.   close over objection.

Guus Schreiber: discussed extensively. close over objection.

15:15:01 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:15:04 <pfps> fine by me to close 142 even over objection

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me to close 142 even over objection

15:15:05 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:15:08 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:15:11 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:15:11 <gavinc> +1 (expecting FO)

Gavin Carothers: +1 (expecting FO)

15:15:12 <AZ> I agree too

Antoine Zimmermann: I agree too

15:15:15 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:15:20 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close issue-142 over Jeremy's (planned) formal objection

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-142 over Jeremy's (planned) formal objection

15:15:21 <markus> +0

Markus Lanthaler: +0

15:15:23 <sandro> +1

+1

15:15:26 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:15:31 <sandro> guus: I don't see any more progress on this.

Guus Schreiber: I don't see any more progress on this.

15:15:32 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:15:46 <sandro> sandro: I agree

Sandro Hawke: I agree

15:15:49 <sandro> pfps: I agree

Peter Patel-Schneider: I agree

15:16:13 <sandro> RESOLVED: Close issue-142 over Jeremy's (planned) formal objection

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-142 over Jeremy's (planned) formal objection

15:16:44 <sandro> close issue-142

close ISSUE-142

15:16:45 <trackbot> Closed issue-142.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-142.

15:16:57 <markus> there's everything here

Markus Lanthaler: there's everything here

15:16:59 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF_1.1_Concepts_and_Abstract_Syntax_Last_Call_Comments

Markus Lanthaler: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF_1.1_Concepts_and_Abstract_Syntax_Last_Call_Comments

15:17:32 <sandro> issue-145

ISSUE-145

15:17:32 <trackbot> issue-145 -- LC comment: Identify vs. Denote distinction is not helpful -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-145 -- LC comment: Identify vs. Denote distinction is not helpful -- open

15:17:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/145

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/145

15:17:48 <sandro> guus: I'll ping commenter for response

Guus Schreiber: I'll ping commenter for response

15:17:56 <pfps> next week is ISWC, so some people (me included) may not be on the call

Peter Patel-Schneider: next week is ISWC, so some people (me included) may not be on the call

15:19:13 <gavinc> No comments, except for the typos

Gavin Carothers: No comments, except for the typos

15:19:23 <sandro> sandro: hopefully decisions can be handled by proxy then.

Sandro Hawke: hopefully decisions can be handled by proxy then.

15:19:29 <sandro> issue-127

ISSUE-127

15:19:29 <trackbot> issue-127 -- Comment: multiple ways to encode string codepoints -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-127 -- Comment: multiple ways to encode string codepoints -- open

15:19:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/127

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/127

15:19:50 <sandro> guus: Did we respond to this.

Guus Schreiber: Did we respond to this.

15:19:59 <sandro> gavin: I'll write a formal response to him, today.

Gavin Carothers: I'll write a formal response to him, today.

15:20:12 <gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2013Jul/0019.html

Gavin Carothers: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2013Jul/0019.html

15:20:25 <sandro> guus: A lot of things need to be done this week, in order to avoid cascading increases in workload

Guus Schreiber: A lot of things need to be done this week, in order to avoid cascading increases in workload

15:21:46 <Guus> topic: TriG / N-Triples / N-Quads

3. TriG / N-Triples / N-Quads

15:21:46 <Guus> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-trig-20130919/#grammar-ebnf

Guus Schreiber: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-trig-20130919/#grammar-ebnf

15:21:48 <sandro> guus: There's an oops on TriG -- it didn't mention the Features At Risk in the SOTF.

Guus Schreiber: There's an oops on TriG -- it didn't mention the Features At Risk in the SOTD.

15:21:56 <sandro> s/SOTF/SOTD/
15:22:20 <sandro> guus: Maybe we can decides on the Features At Risk before CR?   We don't need to .

Guus Schreiber: Maybe we can decides on the Features At Risk before CR? We don't need to .

15:22:37 <AndyS> Include them.

Andy Seaborne: Include them.

15:22:46 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:22:58 <gavinc> Include them

Gavin Carothers: Include them

15:23:04 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:23:08 <sandro> guus:  First F.A.R -- the GRAPH keyword.    Quick check can we remove the At Risk flag and just keep the feature?

Guus Schreiber: First F.A.R -- the GRAPH keyword. Quick check can we remove the At Risk flag and just keep the feature?

15:23:10 <sandro> +1

+1

15:23:14 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

15:23:15 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

15:23:30 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

15:23:33 <Guus> ack pfps

Guus Schreiber: ack pfps

15:23:40 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

15:23:51 <sandro> PROPOSED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "GRAPH Keyword" in TriG, keeping the feature

PROPOSED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "GRAPH Keyword" in TriG, keeping the feature

15:24:16 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:24:18 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:24:19 <sandro> +1

+1

15:24:19 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:24:21 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

15:24:21 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:24:22 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:24:23 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:24:23 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:24:28 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:24:29 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

15:24:30 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

15:24:43 <sandro> RESOLVED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "GRAPH Keyword" in TriG, keeping the feature

RESOLVED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "GRAPH Keyword" in TriG, keeping the feature

15:25:03 <sandro> PROPOSED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "Unenclosed Triples" in TriG, keeping the feature

PROPOSED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "Unenclosed Triples" in TriG, keeping the feature

15:25:32 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:25:33 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:25:34 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:25:35 <sandro> +1

+1

15:25:36 <AndyS> Keep feature

Andy Seaborne: Keep feature

15:25:36 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

15:25:37 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:25:40 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:25:49 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

15:25:50 <gavinc> +1 and make "with the same semantics" TRUE

Gavin Carothers: +1 and make "with the same semantics" TRUE

15:26:40 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:27:13 <Guus> ack AndyS

Guus Schreiber: ack AndyS

15:28:21 <sandro> RESOLVED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "Unenclosed Triples" in TriG, keeping the feature

RESOLVED: Remove "AT RISK" designation for "Unenclosed Triples" in TriG, keeping the feature

15:29:17 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:30:48 <sandro> topic: Test suites for Trig, N-Triples, N-Quads

4. Test suites for Trig, N-Triples, N-Quads

15:30:56 <sandro> gavin: They exist, linked from drafts

Gavin Carothers: They exist, linked from drafts

15:30:57 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/

15:31:10 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2013/TrigTests/

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2013/TrigTests/

15:31:30 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/

15:31:36 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/  http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/ http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/

15:31:42 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/

15:31:47 <AndyS> all exist (I just checked!)

Andy Seaborne: all exist (I just checked!)

15:32:06 <AndyS> Some say "under development"

Andy Seaborne: Some say "under development"

15:32:38 <AndyS> Says "Draft.  The test suite is under development at ..."

Andy Seaborne: Says "Draft. The test suite is under development at ..."

15:33:12 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:33:20 <PatH> Sorry Im late.

Patrick Hayes: Sorry Im late.

15:33:35 <sandro> sandro: So I should change them to say:   the test suites are _here_

Sandro Hawke: So I should change them to say: the test suites are _here_

15:33:41 <sandro> guus: did we resolve to accept them?

Guus Schreiber: did we resolve to accept them?

15:33:44 <sandro> andy: I believe so

Andy Seaborne: I believe so

15:33:49 <sandro> topic: Semantic Test Suite

5. Semantic Test Suite

15:34:09 <AndyS> picky - include a hg commit id in URL, not "default"

Andy Seaborne: picky - include a hg commit id in URL, not "default"

15:34:14 <pfps>  sandro's action is to set up a landing page for Semantics

Peter Patel-Schneider: sandro's action is to set up a landing page for Semantics

15:34:22 <sandro> sandro: I didn't set up the landing page for that yet.  Unclear what we're saying about it.

Sandro Hawke: I didn't set up the landing page for that yet. Unclear what we're saying about it.

15:35:03 <sandro> pfps: Tests from last time have all been caried forward and should all be correct.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Tests from last time have all been caried forward and should all be correct.

15:35:29 <sandro> .. AZ proposed some new tests, and they're in the test suite

.. AZ proposed some new tests, and they're in the test suite

15:35:38 <sandro> .. I looked at all tests and believe they're correct

.. I looked at all tests and believe they're correct

15:35:51 <sandro> .. but the manifest pointed at the wrong files, so I fixed those

.. but the manifest pointed at the wrong files, so I fixed those

15:36:16 <sandro> .. Conformance Clause Missing

.. Conformance Clause Missing

15:36:37 <PatH> SOme of the tests are fine, a few seem too obscure.

Patrick Hayes: SOme of the tests are fine, a few seem too obscure.

15:36:40 <sandro> sandro: What about AZ's tests being too difficult?

Sandro Hawke: What about AZ's tests being too difficult?

15:37:01 <sandro> pfps: SOME of AZ's tests are non-exceptional, they talk about things like the new ways ill-formed literals are treated.

Peter Patel-Schneider: SOME of AZ's tests are non-exceptional, they talk about things like the new ways ill-formed literals are treated.

15:37:04 <AZ> q+

Antoine Zimmermann: q+

15:37:23 <sandro> guus: Assuming we're going to CR next week, how's our test suite for that?

Guus Schreiber: Assuming we're going to CR next week, how's our test suite for that?

15:37:26 <pfps> some of AZs test are for the new datatypes

Peter Patel-Schneider: some of AZs test are for the new datatypes

15:37:35 <sandro> Publication in 2 week

Publication in 2 week

15:37:58 <PatH> AZ on queue?

Patrick Hayes: AZ on queue?

15:37:59 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

15:37:59 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

15:39:00 <sandro> az: Just thinking maybe the Conformance might be parameterized by the ER the reasoner claims to support.     An "RDF Entailment" reason, then doesn't need to pass RDFS tests.

Antoine Zimmermann: Just thinking maybe the Conformance might be parameterized by the ER the reasoner claims to support. An "RDF Entailment" reason, then doesn't need to pass RDFS tests.

15:39:24 <sandro> .. if you don't support xsd:nonPositiveInteger then you don't have to pass those tests.

.. if you don't support xsd:nonPositiveInteger then you don't have to pass those tests.

15:39:43 <sandro> sandro: I think that's the general direction to go

Sandro Hawke: I think that's the general direction to go

15:39:52 <markus> notes that RDF Semantics doesn't define any conformance classes/products...

Markus Lanthaler: notes that RDF Semantics doesn't define any conformance classes/products...

15:40:25 <PatH> We apparently need to combine conformance language and completeness language in a nice way. BUt this is rather delicate.

Patrick Hayes: We apparently need to combine conformance language and completeness language in a nice way. BUt this is rather delicate.

15:40:55 <sandro> sandro: Awkward that we don't say anything about conformance in rdf-mt

Sandro Hawke: Awkward that we don't say anything about conformance in rdf-mt

15:41:35 <pfps> I have to leave sometime after noon

Peter Patel-Schneider: I have to leave sometime after noon

15:41:37 <sandro> guus: any objection to going to :15 ?

Guus Schreiber: any objection to going to :15 ?

15:41:53 <sandro> sandro: I thought that was our schedule.

Sandro Hawke: I thought that was our schedule.

15:41:56 <sandro> topic: Process

6. Process

15:43:27 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.16#CR_transition_process_for_Concepts_.2B_Semantics_.2B_TriG_.2B_N-Triples_.2B_N-Quads

Markus Lanthaler: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.16#CR_transition_process_for_Concepts_.2B_Semantics_.2B_TriG_.2B_N-Triples_.2B_N-Quads

15:43:33 <Guus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.16#CR_transition_process_for_Concepts_.2B_Semantics_.2B_TriG_.2B_N-Triples_.2B_N-Quads

Guus Schreiber: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.16#CR_transition_process_for_Concepts_.2B_Semantics_.2B_TriG_.2B_N-Triples_.2B_N-Quads

15:43:49 <sandro> guus: (reads timeline from agenda)

Guus Schreiber: (reads timeline from agenda)

15:44:51 <sandro> guus: Key thing -- EDITORS get drafts available before next telecon!

Guus Schreiber: Key thing -- EDITORS get drafts available before next telecon!

15:45:01 <sandro> guus: With all editorial changes made

Guus Schreiber: With all editorial changes made

15:45:45 <pfps> the ack could be in an ack section at the end if necessary

Peter Patel-Schneider: the ack could be in an ack section at the end if necessary

15:46:11 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/mid/45B205A4-6704-4F50-B0B6-A197B894D4CD@3roundstones.com respec issue

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/mid/45B205A4-6704-4F50-B0B6-A197B894D4CD@3roundstones.com respec issue

15:46:55 <markus> respec stuff: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Sep/0052.html

Markus Lanthaler: respec stuff: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Sep/0052.html

15:47:09 <sandro> pfps: for semantics, all the necessary edits have been done .....  except for one msg waiting from David Booth

Peter Patel-Schneider: for semantics, all the necessary edits have been done ..... except for one msg waiting from David Booth

15:47:10 <davidwood> markus, thanks.

David Wood: markus, thanks.

15:47:40 <sandro> guus: trig?

Guus Schreiber: trig?

15:48:47 <sandro> sandro: We're thinking we'll do a CR of Trig in sync with the other docs

Sandro Hawke: We're thinking we'll do a CR of Trig in sync with the other docs

15:49:03 <sandro> guus: pfps pat - need a Changes section

Guus Schreiber: pfps pat - need a Changes section

15:49:05 <sandro> pfps: Done

Peter Patel-Schneider: Done

15:49:11 <sandro> davidwood: Done for Concepts

David Wood: Done for Concepts

15:49:56 <sandro> guus: And N-Triples and N-Quads?

Guus Schreiber: And N-Triples and N-Quads?

15:49:59 <sandro> gavi: Yep.

Gavin Carothers: Yep.

15:50:40 <sandro> gavin: I'm promising to have CR drafts available for next Tuesday, and have all comments address.   (Even if paul groth's comment isn't exactly about TriG)

Gavin Carothers: I'm promising to have CR drafts available for next Tuesday, and have all comments address. (Even if paul groth's comment isn't exactly about TriG)

15:50:43 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:50:53 <sandro> guus: Can everyone live with this timeline?

Guus Schreiber: Can everyone live with this timeline?

15:50:58 <PatH> Seems OK to me.

Patrick Hayes: Seems OK to me.

15:51:01 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:51:01 <sandro> q- az

q- az

15:51:07 <Guus> ack AZ

Guus Schreiber: ack AZ

15:51:11 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

15:51:36 <sandro> ivan: 7th of november absolute latest date, but 5th would be better.

Ivan Herman: 7th of november absolute latest date, but 5th would be better.

15:51:58 <sandro> sandro: Sounds like it all works, if nthing gets bumped.

Sandro Hawke: Sounds like it all works, if nthing gets bumped.

15:52:07 <sandro> PLANNED PUBLICATION DATE: 5 NOVEMBER.

PLANNED PUBLICATION DATE: 5 NOVEMBER.

15:52:23 <sandro> guus: Next week -- CR Exit Criteria.

Guus Schreiber: Next week -- CR Exit Criteria.

15:52:40 <sandro> sandro: No peter next week, lets do it now.

Sandro Hawke: No peter next week, lets do it now.

15:53:25 <sandro> sandro: We should be able to find two people who want to pass any good test

Sandro Hawke: We should be able to find two people who want to pass any good test

15:54:12 <sandro> sandro: pfps are you passing all the tests you think should be approved tests

Sandro Hawke: pfps are you passing all the tests you think should be approved tests

15:54:18 <sandro> pfps: not nearly, since they're not OWL DL

Peter Patel-Schneider: not nearly, since they're not OWL DL

15:54:59 <sandro> pat: people/software

Patrick Hayes: people/software

15:55:56 <sandro> sandro: Anyone know about bglimm's interest in this?

Sandro Hawke: Anyone know about bglimm's interest in this?

15:56:38 <sandro> sandro: ANything in Jena?

Sandro Hawke: ANything in Jena?

15:57:31 <sandro> PROPOSED: CR Exit for Semantic will be to have at least two implementations passing each approve test.

PROPOSED: CR Exit for Semantic will be to have at least two implementations passing each approve test.

15:57:51 <sandro> +1

+1

15:57:58 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

15:58:07 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:58:17 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:58:25 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:58:31 <sandro> sandro: And you don't run the tests that don't apply to your kind of reasoner

Sandro Hawke: And you don't run the tests that don't apply to your kind of reasoner

15:59:06 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:00:05 <sandro> ivan:We could leave out the 2004 tests?

Ivan Herman: We could leave out the 2004 tests?

16:00:08 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:00:17 <sandro> pfps: It's a burden if you're running them by hand.

Peter Patel-Schneider: It's a burden if you're running them by hand.

16:00:55 <sandro> PROPOSED: CR Exit for Semantics will be to have at least two implementations passing each approved new (RDF 1.1 only) test.

PROPOSED: CR Exit for Semantics will be to have at least two implementations passing each approved new (RDF 1.1 only) test.

16:01:01 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:01:02 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:01:03 <sandro> +1

+1

16:01:04 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:01:05 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:01:06 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:01:15 <sandro> RESOLVED: CR Exit for Semantics will be to have at least two implementations passing each approved new (RDF 1.1 only) test.

RESOLVED: CR Exit for Semantics will be to have at least two implementations passing each approved new (RDF 1.1 only) test.

16:01:17 <Arnaud> sorry, I've got to drop

Arnaud Le Hors: sorry, I've got to drop

16:01:27 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:01:46 <ivan> +1 to sandro

Ivan Herman: +1 to sandro

16:02:03 <sandro> PROPOSED: CR of 3 weeks (the minimum)

PROPOSED: CR of 3 weeks (the minimum)

16:02:08 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:02:09 <sandro> +1

+1

16:02:12 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:02:14 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:02:19 <sandro> RESOLVED: CR of 3 weeks (the minimum)

RESOLVED: CR of 3 weeks (the minimum)

16:02:25 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:03:01 <sandro> guus: I'll be producing draft transition request, and ask for checks from all editors.

Guus Schreiber: I'll be producing draft transition request, and ask for checks from all editors.

16:03:10 <sandro> topic: JSON-LD

7. JSON-LD

16:03:26 <sandro> markus: Resolve features AT RISK for JSON-LD.

Markus Lanthaler: Resolve features AT RISK for JSON-LD.

16:04:29 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

16:06:18 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

16:08:40 <sandro> markus: On Promises the proposal is to make API non-normative and reference (copy of) git hub page -- assuming Director is okay with this process.

Markus Lanthaler: On Promises the proposal is to make API non-normative and reference (copy of) git hub page -- assuming Director is okay with this process.

16:08:49 <sandro> markus: Any disagreement on any of those?

Markus Lanthaler: Any disagreement on any of those?

16:09:02 <gavinc> -0.5 to ignoring URL spec for URLs

Gavin Carothers: -0.5 to ignoring URL spec for URLs

16:09:02 <sandro> guus: Any discussion?

Guus Schreiber: Any discussion?

16:09:55 <markus> zakim, who is making noise?

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, who is making noise?

16:10:06 <Zakim> markus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (9%), Sandro (70%), David_Wood (14%)

Zakim IRC Bot: markus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (9%), Sandro (70%), David_Wood (14%)

16:10:14 <davidwood> Zakim, mute me

David Wood: Zakim, mute me

16:10:15 <Zakim> David_Wood should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: David_Wood should now be muted

16:10:24 <sandro> PROPOSED: To handle Promised depency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative.  We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments recieved.

PROPOSED: To handle Promised depency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative. We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments recieved.

16:10:32 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

16:10:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: To handle Promises dependency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative.  We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments recieved.

PROPOSED: To handle Promises dependency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative. We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments recieved.

16:10:46 <sandro> +1

+1

16:11:01 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:11:02 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:11:02 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:11:02 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:11:06 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

16:11:07 <PatH> +0

Patrick Hayes: +0

16:11:14 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:11:36 <sandro> RESOLVED: To handle Promises dependency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative.  We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments received.

RESOLVED: To handle Promises dependency, we make the json-ls-api be non-normative. We do not believe this needs another Last Call, given the AT RISK flag and the comments received.

16:11:41 <sandro> PROPOSED: Resolve all AT RISK flags in JSON-LD documents as per recommendation of JSON LD Task Force, shown in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

PROPOSED: Resolve all AT RISK flags in JSON-LD documents as per recommendation of JSON LD Task Force, shown in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

16:11:47 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:11:50 <PatH> +0

Patrick Hayes: +0

16:11:51 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:11:53 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

16:11:53 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:11:54 <sandro> +1

+1

16:12:09 <PatH> Oh what the hell +1

Patrick Hayes: Oh what the hell +1

16:12:10 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:12:13 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:12:18 <gavinc> -0

Gavin Carothers: -0

16:12:29 <sandro> RESOLVED: Resolve all AT RISK flags in JSON-LD documents as per recommendation of JSON LD Task Force, shown in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

RESOLVED: Resolve all AT RISK flags in JSON-LD documents as per recommendation of JSON LD Task Force, shown in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0167.html

16:13:21 <Arnaud> hmm

Arnaud Le Hors: hmm

16:13:30 <Arnaud> I just got another timeout

Arnaud Le Hors: I just got another timeout

16:14:54 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:15:17 <sandro> guus: We'll plan to request PR for json-ld next week, with publication on 5 November

Guus Schreiber: We'll plan to request PR for json-ld next week, with publication on 5 November

16:15:36 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

16:16:24 <sandro> ADJOURN!

ADJOURN!

16:17:18 <davidwood> Thanks, everyone.

David Wood: Thanks, everyone.

16:17:25 <PatH> Bye

Patrick Hayes: Bye

16:17:26 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:17:30 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

16:17:31 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:17:33 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

16:17:34 <Zakim> -David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood

16:17:36 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

16:17:39 <Zakim> -markus

Zakim IRC Bot: -markus

16:17:40 <sandro> guus: Next time --  we'll talk about Primer (lots of progress), Schema, and do the other decisions we talked about

Guus Schreiber: Next time -- we'll talk about Primer (lots of progress), Schema, and do the other decisions we talked about

16:17:40 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:17:45 <Zakim> -GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC

16:17:58 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting

16:17:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:17:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, pfps, AndyS, GavinC, yvesr, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, TallTed, AZ, markus, David_Wood, Arnaud, PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, pfps, AndyS, GavinC, yvesr, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, TallTed, AZ, markus, David_Wood, Arnaud, PatH

16:18:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:18:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/16-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

16:18:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:18:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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