15:03:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-rdf-wg-irc ←
15:03:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:03:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
15:03:09 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:03:09 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2013
15:03:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago ←
15:03:29 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
15:03:29 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, davidwood ←
15:03:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, pfps, gkellogg_, Arnaud, gkellogg, AndyS, TallTed, davidwood, gavinc, yvesr, trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, pfps, gkellogg_, Arnaud, gkellogg, AndyS, TallTed, davidwood, gavinc, yvesr, trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP ←
15:03:41 <davidwood> Zakim, start the meeting
David Wood: Zakim, start the meeting ←
15:03:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start the meeting', davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'start the meeting', davidwood ←
15:03:48 <sandro> zakim, this is rdfwg
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is rdfwg ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:03:48 <davidwood> Zakim, this is RDF
David Wood: Zakim, this is RDF ←
15:03:49 <Zakim> davidwood, this was already SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, this was already SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:03:49 <Zakim> ok, davidwood; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:03:57 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
15:03:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, [GVoice], davidwood, Sandro, +1.415.686.aaaa, [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, [GVoice], davidwood, Sandro, +1.415.686.aaaa, [IPcaller] ←
15:03:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, pfps, Arnaud, gkellogg, AndyS, TallTed, davidwood, gavinc, yvesr, trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, markus, pfps, Arnaud, gkellogg, AndyS, TallTed, davidwood, gavinc, yvesr, trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP ←
15:04:00 <AndyS> zakim, ipcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:04:32 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, gvoice is me ←
15:04:32 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:04:35 <Zakim> + +081165aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +081165aabb ←
15:04:37 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is gkellogg
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaaa is gkellogg ←
15:04:37 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:04:39 <gkellogg> zakim, I am aaa
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am aaa ←
15:04:39 <Zakim> sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named 'aaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named 'aaa' ←
15:04:44 <gkellogg> zakim, I am aaaa
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am aaaa ←
15:04:45 <Zakim> sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named 'aaaa' ←
15:04:46 <AZ> Zakim, aabb is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, aabb is me ←
15:04:46 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:04:53 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:04:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, pfps, davidwood, Sandro, gkellogg, AndyS, AZ, OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, pfps, davidwood, Sandro, gkellogg, AndyS, AZ, OpenLink_Software ←
15:04:56 <gkellogg> zakim, I am +1.415.686.aaaa
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am +1.415.686.aaaa ←
15:04:56 <Zakim> sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named '+1.415.686.aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gkellogg, I do not see a party named '+1.415.686.aaaa' ←
15:04:59 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:05:04 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:05:05 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
15:05:05 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:05:06 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
15:05:23 <Zakim> +Tobie
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tobie ←
15:05:27 <Arnaud> scribe: Arnaud
(Scribe set to Arnaud Le Hors)
15:05:31 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 28 August telecon (dates of TriG actions have been corrected):
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 28 August telecon (dates of TriG actions have been corrected): ←
15:05:31 <davidwood>
15:05:31 <davidwood> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-28
David Wood: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-28 ←
15:05:33 <Arnaud> chair: david
15:05:41 <Arnaud> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.04
15:05:49 <pfps> minutes look OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look OK ←
15:05:49 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.04
Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.04 ←
15:05:50 <AndyS> zakim, ipcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
15:05:50 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller' ←
<Arnaud> topic: Admin
15:05:50 <Arnaud> subtopic: Minutes of 28 August
15:06:00 <davidwood> Review of action items
David Wood: Review of action items ←
15:06:00 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:06:00 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:06:01 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:06:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, pfps, davidwood, Sandro, gkellogg, AZ, TallTed (muted), Tobie
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, pfps, davidwood, Sandro, gkellogg, AZ, TallTed (muted), Tobie ←
15:06:10 <Arnaud> resolved: Minutes of 28 August approved
RESOLVED: Minutes of 28 August approved ←
15:06:22 <Arnaud> subtopic: Review of action items
15:06:27 <AndyS> zakim, really? How can I hear the TC then?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, really? How can I hear the TC then? ←
15:06:28 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AndyS.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, AndyS. ←
15:07:52 <Arnaud> david: no one claiming credits for an action item
David Wood: no one claiming credits for an action item ←
15:07:53 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:07:53 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
15:08:06 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:08:06 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
<Arnaud> subtopic: Next meeting
15:08:10 <Arnaud> david: next meeting is Sep 11
David Wood: next meeting is Sep 11 ←
15:08:32 <davidwood> Topic: TriG / N-Triples / N-Quads
15:08:58 <TallTed> Zakim, Tobie is AndyS
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, Tobie is AndyS ←
15:08:58 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:09:01 <Arnaud> david: is N-Triple ready to go to LC?
David Wood: is N-Triple ready to go to LC? ←
15:09:15 <Arnaud> andy: not had a chance to review the latest changes yet
Andy Seaborne: not had a chance to review the latest changes yet ←
15:09:26 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:10:10 <Arnaud> ... only planning to join as editor on TriG
... only planning to join as editor on TriG ←
15:10:30 <Arnaud> david: next thing to do is to vote on taking the drafts to LC
David Wood: next thing to do is to vote on taking the drafts to LC ←
15:11:12 <Arnaud> andy: let's have a vote with people here and send a message to the list to inform others
Andy Seaborne: let's have a vote with people here and send a message to the list to inform others ←
15:11:30 <Arnaud> sandro: who else reviewed the drafts?
Sandro Hawke: who else reviewed the drafts? ←
15:11:39 <Arnaud> (silence)
(silence) ←
15:12:12 <Arnaud> sandro: we should have someone else than andy review
Sandro Hawke: we should have someone else than andy review ←
15:12:45 <Arnaud> david: don't see any reviews on the list from anyone else
David Wood: don't see any reviews on the list from anyone else ←
15:13:12 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-21#TriG___2f___20_N__2d_Triples___2f___20_N__2d_Quads
Andy Seaborne: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-21#TriG___2f___20_N__2d_Triples___2f___20_N__2d_Quads ←
15:13:14 <Arnaud> andy: 31 August we already resolved to move N-Triples
Andy Seaborne: 21 August we already resolved to move N-Triples ←
15:13:38 <AndyS> ... says "RESOLVED: Publish N-Triples as LCWD."
Andy Seaborne: ... says "RESOLVED: Publish N-Triples as LCWD." ←
15:14:25 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
15:14:32 <Arnaud> s/31 August/21 August/
15:15:16 <Arnaud> david: isn't that supposed to be just a Note?
David Wood: isn't that supposed to be just a Note? ←
15:15:17 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
15:15:30 <Arnaud> sandro: I think Gavin is still trying to get them on the REC track
Sandro Hawke: I think Gavin is still trying to get them on the REC track ←
15:15:31 <AndyS> The required WS changes have been made.
Andy Seaborne: The required WS changes have been made. ←
15:15:33 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, gvoice is me ←
15:15:33 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:15:42 <Arnaud> daivd: let's take a vote for each document
David Wood: let's take a vote for each document ←
15:15:52 <Arnaud> s/daivd/david/
15:16:13 <Arnaud> sandro: has anyone reviewed them?
Sandro Hawke: has anyone reviewed them? ←
15:16:23 <Arnaud> gkellogg: I have before
Gregg Kellogg: I have before ←
15:16:33 <AndyS> ... and also in NQ
Andy Seaborne: ... and also in NQ ←
15:16:52 <AndyS> email -- Pub rules ready N-Quads: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/n-quads/Overview.html
Andy Seaborne: email -- Pub rules ready N-Quads: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/n-quads/Overview.html ←
15:16:54 <Arnaud> sandro: not comfortable making the decision without the editors telling us what the exact status is
Sandro Hawke: not comfortable making the decision without the editors telling us what the exact status is ←
15:17:43 <Arnaud> david: was told via IRC that the drafts N-Triples and N-Quads were ready for LC
David Wood: was told via IRC that the drafts N-Triples and N-Quads were ready for LC ←
15:17:46 <AndyS> hg log -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/log/5a3d1835c438/nquads/index.html
Andy Seaborne: hg log -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/log/5a3d1835c438/nquads/index.html ←
15:18:18 <Arnaud> david: I think we can at least decide to send N-Quad to LC
David Wood: I think we can at least decide to send N-Quad to LC ←
15:18:24 <Arnaud> ... need to set a review period
... need to set a review period ←
15:18:32 <AndyS> (it allows blank graph labels :-)
Andy Seaborne: (it allows blank graph labels :-) ←
15:18:35 <Arnaud> gkellogg: need to reference the test suite
Gregg Kellogg: need to reference the test suite ←
15:19:25 <Arnaud> sandro: don't see any mention that N-Quads is essentially a subset of datasets
Sandro Hawke: don't see any mention that N-Quads is essentially a subset of datasets ←
15:19:36 <Arnaud> ... should say that somewhere, in the abstract
... should say that somewhere, in the abstract ←
15:19:38 <Arnaud> david: I agree
David Wood: I agree ←
15:19:51 <Arnaud> ... could you send that as a review to Gavin and cc the list?
... could you send that as a review to Gavin and cc the list? ←
15:20:11 <Arnaud> sandro: yes, we could also decide to publish pending resolution
Sandro Hawke: yes, we could also decide to publish pending resolution ←
15:21:19 <Arnaud> gkellogg: we could also reference the test suite from the document but we haven't discussed a location for that
Gregg Kellogg: we could also reference the test suite from the document but we haven't discussed a location for that ←
15:21:28 <Arnaud> andy: would be nice
Andy Seaborne: would be nice ←
15:21:48 <davidwood> PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for an empty default graph.
PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for an empty default graph. ←
15:22:00 <Arnaud> gkellogg: it's a ReSpec feature
Gregg Kellogg: it's a ReSpec feature ←
15:22:33 <Arnaud> ... it allows you to put a reference to the test suite but we'd need to decide on the permanent location of the test suite
... it allows you to put a reference to the test suite but we'd need to decide on the permanent location of the test suite ←
15:23:04 <Arnaud> sandro: we could pick a URL and put a page there that points to the actual location
Sandro Hawke: we could pick a URL and put a page there that points to the actual location ←
15:24:14 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/
Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/test-suite/ ←
15:24:57 <gkellogg> testSuiteURI: "http://www.w3.org/2013/json-ld-tests/",
Gregg Kellogg: ReSpec Incantation: testSuiteURI: "http://www.w3.org/2013/json-ld-tests/", ←
15:25:13 <Arnaud> david: do we need to change the proposal?
David Wood: do we need to change the proposal? ←
15:25:20 <Arnaud> andy: no
Andy Seaborne: no ←
15:25:26 <gkellogg> s/testSuiteURI/ReSpec Incantation: testSuiteURI/
15:26:04 <davidwood> PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite.
PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite. ←
15:26:06 <Arnaud> sandro: proposal needs to be changed, it's not just about empty default graph
Sandro Hawke: proposal needs to be changed, it's not just about empty default graph ←
15:26:43 <Arnaud> andy: actually we can't put a link to the test suite
Andy Seaborne: actually we can't put a link to the test suite ←
15:27:09 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
15:27:12 <Arnaud> gkellogg: let's just have a wiki page and reference that
Gregg Kellogg: let's just have a wiki page and reference that ←
15:27:39 <Arnaud> sandro: could make one similar to the json-ld one
Sandro Hawke: could make one similar to the json-ld one ←
15:27:49 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/ ←
15:28:01 <Arnaud> ... http://www.w3.org/2013/n-quads-tests/
... http://www.w3.org/2013/n-quads-tests/ ←
15:28:27 <Arnaud> ... http://www.w3.org/2013/NQuadTests/ ?
... http://www.w3.org/2013/NQuadTests/ ? ←
15:29:01 <AndyS> Tests are https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/default/nquads/tests
Andy Seaborne: Tests are https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/default/nquads/tests ←
15:29:29 <AndyS> name is "N-Quads"
Andy Seaborne: name is "N-Quads" ←
15:29:38 <Arnaud> ... http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/
... http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/ ←
15:30:10 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2013/n-quads-tests/
Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2013/n-quads-tests/ ←
15:30:33 <sandro> N-QuadsTests
Sandro Hawke: N-QuadsTests ←
15:31:24 <davidwood> PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite.
PROPOSED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite. ←
15:31:36 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
15:31:37 <Arnaud> +1
+1 ←
15:31:40 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:31:45 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:31:46 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:31:47 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:31:53 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:32:01 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:32:11 <davidwood> RESOLVED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite.
RESOLVED: Publish N-Quads as a LCWD pending the inclusion of a clarification that the Datasets referred to in the document are a subset of RDF Datasets due to the lack of support for empty graphs and to include links to the test suite. ←
15:32:56 <Arnaud> david: do we need to ask for any changes on N-Triples?
David Wood: do we need to ask for any changes on N-Triples? ←
15:33:15 <Arnaud> sandro: like to add the link to the test suite?
Sandro Hawke: like to add the link to the test suite? ←
15:34:06 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/
http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/ ←
15:34:56 <Arnaud> andy: I put a request for technical review on TriG
Andy Seaborne: I put a request for technical review on TriG ←
15:35:11 <Arnaud> ... it would be helpful to get technical feedback
... it would be helpful to get technical feedback ←
15:35:26 <AndyS> document -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#
Andy Seaborne: document -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html# ←
15:35:59 <Arnaud> gkellogg: happy to have another look at it and check with my implementation but can't commit to a formal review for the next 2 weeks
Gregg Kellogg: happy to have another look at it and check with my implementation but can't commit to a formal review for the next 2 weeks ←
15:36:08 <Arnaud> andy: any feedback would be helpful
Andy Seaborne: any feedback would be helpful ←
15:36:27 <Arnaud> gkellogg: will send something by next week
Gregg Kellogg: will send something by next week ←
15:36:40 <Arnaud> david: anyone else?
David Wood: anyone else? ←
15:37:20 <Arnaud> ... souri?
... souri? ←
15:37:32 <Arnaud> souri: ok, I can do that within 2 weeks
Souripriya Das: ok, I can do that within 2 weeks ←
15:38:15 <Arnaud> sandro: I'm up to review it
Sandro Hawke: I'm up to review it ←
15:38:26 <sandro> done: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/
Sandro Hawke: done: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/ ←
15:38:29 <davidwood> Topic: RDF/JSON
15:39:01 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
15:39:06 <markus> zakim, ?? P5 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ?? P5 is me ←
15:39:06 <Zakim> I don't understand '?? P5 is me', markus
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '?? P5 is me', markus ←
15:39:29 <markus> zakim, ??P5 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P5 is me ←
15:39:29 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
15:40:17 <Arnaud> Arnaud: believe draft is ready, JSON-LD reference needs to be fixed, Guus said he would do it
Arnaud Le Hors: believe draft is ready, JSON-LD reference needs to be fixed, Guus said he would do it ←
15:40:19 <markus> I was not just talking about JSON-LD ref.. also RDF Concepts ref
Markus Lanthaler: I was not just talking about JSON-LD ref.. also RDF Concepts ref ←
15:41:36 <Arnaud> david: ok, let's give Guus a bit of time to do it
David Wood: ok, let's give Guus a bit of time to do it ←
15:42:34 <gkellogg> N-Triples test suite location: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/tests-nt/
Gregg Kellogg: N-Triples test suite location: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/tests-nt/ ←
15:42:53 <davidwood> Topic: LC for Concepts, Semantics
15:43:05 <davidwood> Reminder: The Last Call period ends 06 September 2013.
David Wood: Reminder: The Last Call period ends 06 September 2013. ←
15:43:10 <gkellogg> N-Quads test suite location: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/nquads/tests/
Gregg Kellogg: N-Quads test suite location: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/nquads/tests/ ←
15:43:23 <davidwood> Open issues for Concepts: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/8
David Wood: Open issues for Concepts: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/8 ←
15:43:32 <Arnaud> david: LC ends in just a couple of days and don't seem to have any open issues for Semantics but have 3 open issues for Concepts
David Wood: LC ends in just a couple of days and don't seem to have any open issues for Semantics but have 3 open issues for Concepts ←
15:43:51 <Arnaud> ... will need to clarify and fix the document
... will need to clarify and fix the document ←
15:44:29 <Arnaud> ... we can wait for the review period to end but is there any issue we can discuss?
... we can wait for the review period to end but is there any issue we can discuss? ←
15:45:13 <Arnaud> ... didn't we already close issue-140?
... didn't we already close ISSUE-140? ←
15:45:17 <AZ> Yes, ISSUE-140 should be resolved
Antoine Zimmermann: Yes, ISSUE-140 should be resolved ←
15:45:32 <davidwood> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-21#resolution_7
David Wood: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-08-21#resolution_7 ←
15:45:34 <Arnaud> ... already have a resolution
... already have a resolution ←
15:45:41 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/ done
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2013/N-TriplesTests/ done ←
15:45:46 <davidwood> CLOSE ISSUE-140
David Wood: CLOSE ISSUE-140 ←
15:45:47 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-140.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-140. ←
15:46:10 <Arnaud> ... I will send email to Ivan to the comments list
... I will send email to Ivan to the comments list ←
15:46:35 <Arnaud> ... down to 2 open issues, issue-139 and issue-141
... down to 2 open issues, ISSUE-139 and ISSUE-141 ←
15:47:13 <davidwood> David Booth suggested http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html
David Wood: David Booth suggested http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html ←
15:47:39 <Arnaud> sandro: we've gone through issue-139 before, many times
Sandro Hawke: we've gone through ISSUE-139 before, many times ←
15:48:50 <Arnaud> ... within the json-ld context
... within the json-ld context ←
15:49:07 <Arnaud> ... not sure where we ended though
... not sure where we ended though ←
15:49:51 <Arnaud> sandro: I think David's proposed wording is better
Sandro Hawke: I think David's proposed wording is okay ←
15:50:07 <sandro> s/better/okay/
15:51:00 <Arnaud> david: I agree with the sentiment, need to check with Peter
David Wood: I agree with the sentiment, need to check with Peter ←
15:51:19 <sandro> pfps ??
Sandro Hawke: pfps ?? ←
15:52:18 <Arnaud> david: I propose we close issue-139 accepting David Booth's proposed wording but leaving the exact wording to the editors
David Wood: I propose we close ISSUE-139 accepting David Booth's proposed wording but leaving the exact wording to the editors ←
15:53:29 <davidwood> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-139 using David Booth's proposed solution at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html. Exact wording will be considered editorial.
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-139 using David Booth's proposed solution at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html. Exact wording will be considered editorial. ←
15:53:46 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:53:50 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:54:03 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:54:07 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:54:09 <markus> +1
Markus Lanthaler: +1 ←
15:54:15 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:54:22 <Arnaud> +1
+1 ←
15:54:37 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:54:50 <davidwood> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-139 using David Booth's proposed solution at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html. Exact wording will be considered editorial.
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-139 using David Booth's proposed solution at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Aug/0002.html. Exact wording will be considered editorial. ←
15:55:09 <davidwood> CLOSE ISSUE-139
David Wood: CLOSE ISSUE-139 ←
15:55:09 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-139.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ISSUE-139. ←
15:55:30 <davidwood> ISSUE-141?
15:55:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-141 -- Fragment Identifiers (Sebastian Hellmann) -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-141 -- Fragment Identifiers (Sebastian Hellmann) -- open ←
15:55:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/141
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/141 ←
15:56:37 <Arnaud> david: propose to hold that one for the moment
David Wood: propose to hold that one for the moment ←
15:56:48 <Arnaud> david: AOB?
David Wood: AOB? ←
15:57:16 <AndyS> trig document -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#
Andy Seaborne: trig document -- https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html# ←
15:57:23 <Arnaud> ... *meeting adjourned!*
... *meeting adjourned!* ←
15:57:29 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:57:30 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
15:57:31 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:57:34 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
15:57:34 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
15:57:34 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
15:57:34 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
15:57:35 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:57:35 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
15:57:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, davidwood, Sandro, +1.415.686.aaaa, AndyS, pfps, +081165aabb, gkellogg, AZ, TallTed, Souri, markus
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Arnaud, davidwood, Sandro, +1.415.686.aaaa, AndyS, pfps, +081165aabb, gkellogg, AZ, TallTed, Souri, markus ←
16:03:15 <gavinc> and I'm back!....
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Gavin Carothers: and I'm back!.... ←
16:03:17 <gavinc> sigh ;)
Gavin Carothers: sigh ;) ←
16:03:22 <sandro> heh
Sandro Hawke: heh ←
16:05:05 <gavinc> Can totally add the datasets language had it at one point before I went off and noticed that it's a total non issue as there are exactly 0 implementations of any syntax today that allow for the exchange of empty graphs ;) All the existing TriG parsers don't, they allow for the empty syntax but no-op it, they don't produce empty graphs when parsing.
Gavin Carothers: Can totally add the datasets language had it at one point before I went off and noticed that it's a total non issue as there are exactly 0 implementations of any syntax today that allow for the exchange of empty graphs ;) All the existing TriG parsers don't, they allow for the empty syntax but no-op it, they don't produce empty graphs when parsing. ←
16:06:08 <gavinc> and that since SPARQL implementations are allowed to ignore empty graphs it's not much of an interop issue
Gavin Carothers: and that since SPARQL implementations are allowed to ignore empty graphs it's not much of an interop issue ←
16:07:42 <sandro> slight grumble that y'all blocked me from excluding empty graphs from datasets. rrrr.
Sandro Hawke: slight grumble that y'all blocked me from excluding empty graphs from datasets. rrrr. ←
16:07:55 <sandro> but since we have them, we need to keep explaining this.
Sandro Hawke: but since we have them, we need to keep explaining this. ←
16:29:47 <gavinc> "N-Quad documents do not provide a way of seralizing empty graphs that may be part of an RDF dataset."
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Gavin Carothers: "N-Quad documents do not provide a way of seralizing empty graphs that may be part of an RDF dataset." ←
16:29:52 <gavinc> N-Quad documents do not provide a way of serializing empty graphs that may be part of an RDF dataset.
Gavin Carothers: N-Quad documents do not provide a way of serializing empty graphs that may be part of an RDF dataset. ←
16:30:27 <gavinc> note in the conformance section
Gavin Carothers: note in the conformance section ←
16:30:30 <gavinc> sound good?
Gavin Carothers: sound good? ←
16:40:37 <sandro> That text is fine for conformance. You don't want to say more in the intro about why? and when this matters?
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Sandro Hawke: That text is fine for conformance. You don't want to say more in the intro about why? and when this matters? ←
16:48:08 <gavinc> Not really no, since it doesn't matter in practice
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Gavin Carothers: Not really no, since it doesn't matter in practice ←
16:49:27 <gavinc> You can't put any meaning on the empty graph (There isn't any semantics anyway) and you can't really use empty graphs any meaningful exchange since your totally allowed to throw them away
Gavin Carothers: You can't put any meaning on the empty graph (There isn't any semantics anyway) and you can't really use empty graphs any meaningful exchange since your totally allowed to throw them away ←
16:49:30 <gavinc> anyway
Gavin Carothers: anyway ←
16:51:48 <gavinc> and from the frozen dataset perspective the empty graph are totally funky anyway. I don't think any of the semantics we tossed around or are going to be in the note deal with them
Gavin Carothers: and from the frozen dataset perspective the empty graph are totally funky anyway. I don't think any of the semantics we tossed around or are going to be in the note deal with them ←
16:52:57 <gavinc> So no, I don't think we need to draw any more attention to them
Gavin Carothers: So no, I don't think we need to draw any more attention to them ←
16:53:41 <sandro> But not explaining them draws attention to them, as a glaring hole.
Sandro Hawke: But not explaining them draws attention to them, as a glaring hole. ←
16:55:44 <gavinc> WTF... what happened to respec?
Gavin Carothers: WTF... what happened to respec? ←
16:57:03 <gavinc> Okay, that was totally strange all better now
Gavin Carothers: Okay, that was totally strange all better now ←
16:57:18 <gavinc> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/n-quads/Overview.html#conformance
Gavin Carothers: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/n-quads/Overview.html#conformance ←
16:58:03 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
16:58:16 <gavinc> any concepts already deals with it in a note
Gavin Carothers: any concepts already deals with it in a note ←
16:58:17 <gavinc> "Some RDF dataset implementations do not track empty named graphs. Applications can avoid interoperability issues by not ascribing importance to the presence or absence of empty named graphs."
Gavin Carothers: "Some RDF dataset implementations do not track empty named graphs. Applications can avoid interoperability issues by not ascribing importance to the presence or absence of empty named graphs." ←
16:58:30 <sandro> True.
Sandro Hawke: True. ←
16:58:51 <gavinc> That's the only right answer, they are sometimes useful implementation details, that are totally useless for exchange ;)
Gavin Carothers: That's the only right answer, they are sometimes useful implementation details, that are totally useless for exchange ;) ←
16:58:53 <sandro> Do you want to try to publish these on the 10th, along with the JSON-LD CR (expected), or do it a different time?
Sandro Hawke: Do you want to try to publish these on the 10th, along with the JSON-LD CR (expected), or do it a different time? ←
16:59:04 <sandro> (gotta run)
Sandro Hawke: (gotta run) ←
16:59:06 <gavinc> Want? I want them NOW ;)
Gavin Carothers: Want? I want them NOW ;) ←
16:59:27 <gavinc> Note the very aggressive publication date
Gavin Carothers: Note the very aggressive publication date ←
17:00:29 <gavinc> gkellogg: There is some test suite linking feature?
Gregg Kellogg: There is some test suite linking feature? [ Scribe Assist by Gavin Carothers ] ←
17:00:39 <gavinc> How do I use this magic test suite linking feature?
Gavin Carothers: How do I use this magic test suite linking feature? ←
17:01:20 <sandro> hopefully gregg will answer
Sandro Hawke: hopefully gregg will answer ←
17:01:28 <sandro> re publication, want to contact the webmaster, etc?
Sandro Hawke: re publication, want to contact the webmaster, etc? ←
17:01:41 <sandro> might be possible to get it done for tomorrow
Sandro Hawke: might be possible to get it done for tomorrow ←
17:01:50 <gavinc> Someone point me at what I need to do
Gavin Carothers: Someone point me at what I need to do ←
17:02:22 <sandro> I need to run for 2hrs, then I'll try.
Sandro Hawke: I need to run for 2hrs, then I'll try. ←
17:02:28 <gavinc> cool
Gavin Carothers: cool ←
17:03:02 <sandro> er, not "run" but "be offline"
Sandro Hawke: er, not "run" but "be offline" ←
17:03:20 <sandro> actually -- briefly, have you don a pub before? there's a page on our wiki
Sandro Hawke: actually -- briefly, have you don a pub before? there's a page on our wiki ←
17:05:17 <gavinc> amazingly no
Gavin Carothers: amazingly no ←
17:05:53 <gavinc> Done all the pubrules stuff
Gavin Carothers: Done all the pubrules stuff ←
17:06:21 <sandro> All this: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Tips_on_publishing_ReSpec-based_documents ?
Sandro Hawke: All this: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Tips_on_publishing_ReSpec-based_documents ? ←
17:07:00 <sandro> Okay, I just emailed the webmaster and CC'd you. From here you should be able to work with him to get the publications done tomorrow or the 10th. But keep me cc'd and I should be able to help if necessary.
Sandro Hawke: Okay, I just emailed the webmaster and CC'd you. From here you should be able to work with him to get the publications done tomorrow or the 10th. But keep me cc'd and I should be able to help if necessary. ←
17:07:17 <gavinc> Okay
Gavin Carothers: Okay ←
17:13:49 <Arnaud> sandro?
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sandro? ←
17:13:54 <Arnaud> are you gone already?
are you gone already? ←
19:13:48 <gkellogg> gavinc: We use it in the JSON-LD-API spec, just add 'testSuiteURI: "http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/"' to the ReSpec config
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Gavin Carothers: We use it in the JSON-LD-API spec, just add 'testSuiteURI: "http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleTests/"' to the ReSpec config [ Scribe Assist by Gregg Kellogg ] ←
19:14:07 <gkellogg> (or whatever test suite URL is appropriate)
Gregg Kellogg: (or whatever test suite URL is appropriate) ←
19:14:44 <gkellogg> e.g. http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/
Gregg Kellogg: e.g. http://www.w3.org/2013/N-QuadsTests/ ←
21:06:29 <gavinc> thanks gkellogg, updated draft
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Gavin Carothers: thanks gkellogg, updated draft ←
22:12:25 <gavinc> in which sandro makes makes the webmaster gods happy
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Gavin Carothers: in which sandro makes makes the webmaster gods happy ←
22:12:35 <gavinc> thanks sandro!
Gavin Carothers: thanks sandro! ←
22:12:56 <sandro> and the webmaster makes sandro angry. :-/
Sandro Hawke: and the webmaster makes sandro angry. :-/ ←
22:13:21 <sandro> I don't understand your line:
Sandro Hawke: I don't understand your line: ←
22:13:21 <sandro> ... the current draft http://www.w3.org/TR/n-quads/#conformance has a much worse URL in there ;)
Sandro Hawke: ... the current draft http://www.w3.org/TR/n-quads/#conformance has a much worse URL in there ;) ←
22:13:21 <sandro>
22:13:22 <sandro> ( gavinc )
Sandro Hawke: ( gavinc ) ←
22:13:33 <sandro> Oh, I do now.
Sandro Hawke: Oh, I do now. ←
22:13:36 <gavinc> uh huh
Gavin Carothers: uh huh ←
22:13:46 <gavinc> I have no idea how the old draft passed pub rules
Gavin Carothers: I have no idea how the old draft passed pub rules ←
22:13:51 <sandro> Right.
Sandro Hawke: Right. ←
22:14:00 <gavinc> the section names are missing words, the links are all dead
Gavin Carothers: the section names are missing words, the links are all dead ←
22:14:07 <gavinc> and it's missing references ;)
Gavin Carothers: and it's missing references ;) ←
22:14:27 <gavinc> and I have no idea how Guus produced those in the first place as I was on vaction
Gavin Carothers: and I have no idea how Guus produced those in the first place as I was on vaction ←
22:15:20 <sandro> But that argues that the webmaster is RIGHT to be strict about this detail, since it would have caught a typo like that.
Sandro Hawke: But that argues that the webmaster is RIGHT to be strict about this detail, since it would have caught a typo like that. ←
22:16:35 <sandro> I tend to think my dislike of capricious authority is why I get along with computers -- they're almost never actually capricious. I wonder if that's true in general among programmers.
Sandro Hawke: I tend to think my dislike of capricious authority is why I get along with computers -- they're almost never actually capricious. I wonder if that's true in general among programmers. ←
22:33:47 <davidwood1> sandro, I would think so, yes. +1 to computers being more consistent than people ;)
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David Wood: sandro, I would think so, yes. +1 to computers being more consistent than people ;) ←
22:42:52 <gavinc> Yeah, computers were fine with me spelling it dc:modifed until one day a human got annoyed and fixed it. I was on vacation at the time, the humans had a very bad week.
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Gavin Carothers: Yeah, computers were fine with me spelling it dc:modifed until one day a human got annoyed and fixed it. I was on vacation at the time, the humans had a very bad week. ←
22:43:41 <gavinc> I was VERY consistent in my spelling for the computer
Gavin Carothers: I was VERY consistent in my spelling for the computer ←
22:44:13 <gavinc> there was even an owl:sameAs for it ;)
Gavin Carothers: there was even an owl:sameAs for it ;) ←
23:37:20 <davidwood> heh
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David Wood: heh ←
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