edit

RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 17 April 2013

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Markus Lanthaler, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau
Scribe
Charles Greer
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
14:58:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-rdf-wg-irc

14:58:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:58:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:58:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

14:58:12 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:58:12 <trackbot> Date: 17 April 2013
14:58:21 <sandro> Zakim, who is here?

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is here?

14:58:21 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, sandro

14:58:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

14:58:45 <sandro> zakim, this is rdf

Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is rdf

14:58:45 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

14:58:51 <sandro> Zakim, who is here?

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is here?

14:58:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro

14:58:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

14:59:08 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is pfps

Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaaa is pfps

14:59:08 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

14:59:47 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

14:59:53 <pfps> zakim, who is here?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here?

14:59:54 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:59:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, ??P12, Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, ??P12, Ivan

14:59:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Guus, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Guus, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot

14:59:58 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P12 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P12 is me

14:59:58 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

15:00:13 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

15:00:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:00:38 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

15:00:38 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:00:53 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

15:01:00 <pchampin> zakim, ??P16 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P16 is me

15:01:01 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:02:10 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:02:32 <Zakim> + +1.707.874.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.874.aabb

15:02:42 <cgreer> zakim, aabb is me

Charles Greer: zakim, aabb is me

15:02:42 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer; got it

15:03:28 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

15:03:29 <sandro> zakim, openlink_software is temporarily tallted

Sandro Hawke: zakim, openlink_software is temporarily tallted

15:03:29 <Zakim> +tallted; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tallted; got it

15:03:48 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.898.aacc

15:04:25 <davidwood> Zakim, aacc is me

David Wood: Zakim, aacc is me

15:04:25 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it

15:04:36 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

15:04:39 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer

(Scribe set to Charles Greer)

15:04:42 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P26

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P26

15:04:42 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

15:04:49 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer
15:05:32 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/

Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/

15:06:06 <Zakim> + +081165aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +081165aadd

15:06:13 <markus> zakim, code?

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, code?

15:06:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

15:06:28 <AZ> zakim, aadd is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aadd is me

15:06:28 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:06:42 <Zakim> +??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34

15:06:43 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

15:06:46 <markus> zakim, ??P34 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P34 is me

15:06:46 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

15:06:47 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, [GVoice] is me

15:06:48 <Zakim> +ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it

15:06:50 <gavinc> or you know... just added RDFa to the template? :P

Gavin Carothers: or you know... just added RDFa to the template? :P

15:07:19 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/minutes/

Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/minutes/

15:07:59 <gkellogg> Note that JSON-LD minute summaries include resolutions

Gregg Kellogg: Note that JSON-LD minute summaries include resolutions

15:09:04 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon:

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon:

15:09:04 <davidwood>

David Wood:

15:09:04 <davidwood>    https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10

David Wood: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10

15:09:13 <pfps> minutes are fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are fine

15:09:27 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon:   https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10

David Wood: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10

15:09:36 <cgreer> topic: Action Items

1. Action Items

15:09:37 <davidwood> Review of action items

David Wood: Review of action items

15:09:37 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

15:09:37 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

15:10:07 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:10:17 <cgreer> davidwood: actions related to turtle test suite

David Wood: actions related to turtle test suite

15:10:18 <cgreer> ?

?

15:10:22 <AZ> zakim, who's on the phone?

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:10:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, SteveH, Ivan, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, tallted, cgreer, GavinC, davidwood, gkellogg, AZ, ericP, markus, PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, SteveH, Ivan, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, tallted, cgreer, GavinC, davidwood, gkellogg, AZ, ericP, markus, PatH

15:10:26 <cgreer> gavinc: we dont have word from all contributors yet

Gavin Carothers: we dont have word from all contributors yet

15:10:34 <cgreer> gavinc: the grant form is pending

Gavin Carothers: the grant form is pending

15:10:53 <cgreer> davidwood: I know the status.  Dave Beckett may have filled it out.

Sandro Hawke: I know the status. Dave Beckett may have filled it out.

15:11:04 <davidwood> s/davidwood/sandro/
15:11:12 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/

15:12:11 <cgreer> gavinc: We need this from David Robelard... and OK We can publish the test suite!

Gavin Carothers: We need this from David Robelard... and OK We can publish the test suite!

15:12:20 <cgreer> gavinc: new license is in there and updated

Gavin Carothers: new license is in there and updated

15:12:48 <cgreer> ericP: I can do rest of work after the meeting.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I can do rest of work after the meeting.

15:12:58 <cgreer> ericP: It's going into 2013/turtle-tests

Eric Prud'hommeaux: It's going into 2013/turtle-tests

15:12:59 <sandro> > David Robillard : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.

Sandro Hawke: > David Robillard : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.

15:12:59 <sandro> > David Beckett : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.

Sandro Hawke: > David Beckett : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.

15:13:33 <cgreer> sandro: I gave my talk on changes to RDF 1.1

Sandro Hawke: I gave my talk on changes to RDF 1.1

15:13:42 <cgreer> ... It went pretty well.

... It went pretty well.

15:13:45 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0409-rdf11/

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0409-rdf11/

15:14:27 <cgreer> PatH: You sounded cautious when you said it went well.

Patrick Hayes: You sounded cautious when you said it went well.

15:14:38 <cgreer> sandro: That meant there was a lack of negativity in the audience

Sandro Hawke: That meant there was a lack of negativity in the audience

15:14:51 <cgreer> davidwood: On to document dependencies

David Wood: On to document dependencies

15:14:55 <cgreer> topic: Document Dependenciew

2. Document Dependencies

15:15:03 <cgreer> s/Dependenciew/Dependencies
15:15:17 <davidwood> Normative References to W3C Standards http://www.w3.org/2013/02/stdref

David Wood: Normative References to W3C Standards http://www.w3.org/2013/02/stdref

15:15:24 <cgreer> davidwood: Ian J. announced a new document...

David Wood: Ian J. announced a new document...

15:15:27 <davidwood> Takes effect 28 April or after

David Wood: Takes effect 28 April or after

15:16:00 <pfps> as far as I can tell, Semantics is already compliant wrt to this

Peter Patel-Schneider: as far as I can tell, Semantics is already compliant wrt to this

15:16:16 <pfps> ... although I don't know exactly what changes, if any, are required

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... although I don't know exactly what changes, if any, are required

15:16:25 <cgreer> PatH: I looked at this and couldn't see changes

Patrick Hayes: I looked at this and couldn't see changes

15:16:32 <cgreer> davidwood: I couldn't find deltas either

Sandro Hawke: I couldn't find deltas either

15:16:42 <cgreer> s/davidwood/sandro
15:17:11 <cgreer> gavinc: the preference direction has changed from latest to 'this' version

Gavin Carothers: the preference direction has changed from latest to 'this' version

15:17:35 <cgreer> gavinc: from 'this' to latest (correction)

Gavin Carothers: from 'this' to latest (correction)

15:17:53 <cgreer> davidwood: in Richard's absence we'll skip concepts

David Wood: in Richard's absence we'll skip concepts

15:18:15 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

15:18:18 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

15:18:20 <cgreer> davidwood: Any other business?

David Wood: Any other business?

15:18:32 <gavinc> or DOM4 :D

Gavin Carothers: or DOM4 :D

15:18:45 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

15:18:58 <PatH> 1-pfps=?

Patrick Hayes: 1-pfps=?

15:19:07 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

15:19:11 <PatH> ah

Patrick Hayes: ah

15:19:12 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:19:22 <cgreer> gavinc: On the trailing dot.  THe reason why it's still there is that we decided to leave it there as long as it was at risk

Gavin Carothers: On the trailing dot. THe reason why it's still there is that we decided to leave it there as long as it was at risk

15:19:33 <cgreer> gavinc: We can go back and change so that either works

Gavin Carothers: We can go back and change so that either works

15:19:51 <cgreer> ericP: If we're going to make it optional, we need to go back to LC

Eric Prud'hommeaux: If we're going to make it optional, we need to go back to LC

15:19:56 <AndyS> Please - not - "PREFIX <> ."

Andy Seaborne: Please - not - "PREFIX <> ."

15:20:01 <cgreer> davidwood: We don't want to keep changing the grammar.

David Wood: We don't want to keep changing the grammar.

15:20:23 <cgreer> davidwood: Better not to keep changing it.

David Wood: Better not to keep changing it.

15:20:33 <cgreer> sandro: Do you mean language or grammar?

Sandro Hawke: Do you mean language or grammar?

15:21:01 <cgreer> We'll agree on 'language' or BNF

We'll agree on 'language' or BNF

15:21:25 <cgreer> gavinc: Nobody is suggesting that we should allow trailing dot after SPARQL form

Gavin Carothers: Nobody is suggesting that we should allow trailing dot after SPARQL form

15:21:53 <cgreer> ... the problem with making '.' optional after @prefix is that it can make some turtle documents impossible to...

... the problem with making '.' optional after @prefix is that it can make some turtle documents impossible to...

15:22:04 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:22:07 <sandro> Case 1:   @prefix  dot     Case 2:   @prefix  no dot      Case 3:   PREFIX    dot       Case 4:    PREFIX no dot

Sandro Hawke: Case 1: @prefix dot Case 2: @prefix no dot Case 3: PREFIX dot Case 4: PREFIX no dot

15:22:14 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

15:22:27 <cgreer> pfps: It would be nice to get discussion of outstanding concepts and semantics issues

Peter Patel-Schneider: It would be nice to get discussion of outstanding concepts and semantics issues

15:22:34 <cgreer> ... cause the resolutions were blocked

... cause the resolutions were blocked

15:22:54 <cgreer> pfps: The issues are in the agenda

Peter Patel-Schneider: The issues are in the agenda

15:23:17 <cgreer> pfps: While we're in turtle...

Peter Patel-Schneider: While we're in turtle...

15:23:31 <cgreer> davidwood: we can't just throw away a trailing dot

David Wood: we can't just throw away a trailing dot

15:23:43 <cgreer> ericP: for some pathological document it can change the meaning

Eric Prud'hommeaux: for some pathological document it can change the meaning

15:23:57 <cgreer> davidwood: Why wouldn't the same condition occur with use of SPARQL

David Wood: Why wouldn't the same condition occur with use of SPARQL

15:23:58 <AndyS> q+ to ask for the example document.

Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask for the example document.

15:24:11 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:24:11 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask for the example document.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask for the example document.

15:24:17 <cgreer> gavinc: SPARQL doesn't have backwards-compatible issue

Gavin Carothers: SPARQL doesn't have backwards-compatible issue

15:24:24 <cgreer> AndyS: I'm not sure it's an issue.

Andy Seaborne: I'm not sure it's an issue.

15:24:38 <cgreer> sandro: The cases are above.

Sandro Hawke: The cases are above.

15:24:57 <cgreer> ... case 2 is the one we're discussing

... case 2 is the one we're discussing

15:25:24 <cgreer> ericP: Example in the record?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Example in the record?

15:25:36 <sandro> sandro:  I'm hearing case-1 accepted, case-4 at risk, case-3 no one wants, case-2 heresay that it's a problem.

Sandro Hawke: I'm hearing case-1 accepted, case-4 at risk, case-3 no one wants, case-2 heresay that it's a problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:25:54 <gkellogg> @prefix a: <b> a:c a a:d .

Gregg Kellogg: @prefix a: <b> a:c a a:d .

15:25:57 <cgreer> sandro: Case three is disallowed from SPARQL, so let's not train people to use it

Sandro Hawke: Case three is disallowed from SPARQL, so let's not train people to use it

15:26:16 <sandro> sandro: I'm hearing the problem with case-3 is that it would train people to use a dot, which woldn't work in SPARQL.

Sandro Hawke: I'm hearing the problem with case-3 is that it would train people to use a dot, which woldn't work in SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:26:17 <AndyS> The issue will be decimals.

Andy Seaborne: The issue will be decimals.

15:26:56 <cgreer> AndyS: It woudl have to be a literal subject to break case 2.

Andy Seaborne: It would have to be a literal subject to break case 2.

15:27:01 <cgreer> s/woudl/would/
15:27:06 <AndyS> @prefix a: <> \n .8 :p 123 .

Andy Seaborne: @prefix a: <> \n .8 :p 123 .

15:27:09 <pchampin> @prefix a: <b> .0 a xsd:integer .

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @prefix a: <b> .0 a xsd:integer .

15:27:50 <sandro> sandro: But a literal wouldn't be legal there anyway.

Sandro Hawke: But a literal wouldn't be legal there anyway. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:27:53 <cgreer> davidwood: This is a shortcut literal (no ")

David Wood: This is a shortcut literal (no ")

15:28:03 <cgreer> gavinc: Right the only problem was from inverse syntax.

Gavin Carothers: Right the only problem was from inverse syntax.

15:28:11 <sandro> gavin: But with the INVERSE syntax it would have been a problem.

Gavin Carothers: But with the INVERSE syntax it would have been a problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:28:19 <PatH> blech on shortcuts.

Patrick Hayes: blech on shortcuts.

15:28:22 <cgreer> AndyS: Other problem was that prefix name could start with a '.'

Andy Seaborne: Other problem was that prefix name could start with a '.'

15:28:34 <cgreer> gavinc: WHich it can't.

Gavin Carothers: WHich it can't.

15:28:48 <AndyS> We ought to move on to PFPS.

Andy Seaborne: We ought to move on to PFPS.

15:28:57 <sandro> sandro: It's my FIRM belief this would not require another Last Call.

Sandro Hawke: It's my FIRM belief this would not require another Last Call. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:29:35 <cgreer> davidwood: There's no public record of objection.

David Wood: There's no public record of objection.

15:29:44 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:29:45 <cgreer> gavinc: We've just established that there's no problem.

Gavin Carothers: We've just established that there's no problem.

15:29:46 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

15:29:56 <pfps> .. xsd:string??

Peter Patel-Schneider: .. xsd:string??

15:30:04 <cgreer> davidwood: Move on to pfps concerns on open issues?

David Wood: Move on to pfps concerns on open issues?

15:30:57 <sandro> eric: It MIGHT require a new Last Call since it requires every implementation to change.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: It MIGHT require a new Last Call since it requires every implementation to change. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:31:04 <cgreer> ericP: I'm trying to figure out the rationale for the optional .

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'm trying to figure out the rationale for the optional .

15:31:19 <cgreer> davidwood: I don't see a strong case for change either.

David Wood: I don't see a strong case for change either.

15:31:48 <cgreer> davidwood: We'll have to retest and reimplement if we adopt this, and we will end up back in LC

David Wood: We'll have to retest and reimplement if we adopt this, and we will end up back in LC

15:31:54 <AndyS> Suggestion - discuss on comments and make it a community decision because if community wants we can do it. If not, don't.

Andy Seaborne: Suggestion - discuss on comments and make it a community decision because if community wants we can do it. If not, don't.

15:32:05 <cgreer> +1 AndyS

+1 AndyS

15:32:06 <sandro> +1 Andy

Sandro Hawke: +1 Andy

15:32:42 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:32:57 <cgreer> ericP: re Andy's suggestion, depending on phrasing of question we might lead the community.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: re Andy's suggestion, depending on phrasing of question we might lead the community.

15:32:59 <davidwood> ack sandro

David Wood: ack sandro

15:33:10 <cgreer> sandro: What are we going to do about PREFIX

Sandro Hawke: What are we going to do about PREFIX

15:33:24 <cgreer> ericP: And this does reflect a discontinuity within the WG

Eric Prud'hommeaux: And this does reflect a discontinuity within the WG

15:33:35 <cgreer> ... copy/paste people vs. turtle people ;)

... copy/paste people vs. turtle people ;)

15:33:41 <ivan> +1 to Sandro

Ivan Herman: +1 to Sandro

15:34:05 <ivan> yes

Ivan Herman: yes

15:34:06 <cgreer> davidwood: I'm regretting we didn't just break it and move to PREFIX

David Wood: I'm regretting we didn't just break it and move to PREFIX

15:34:17 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

15:34:17 <Zakim> Ivan was not muted, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was not muted, ivan

15:34:42 <ericP> i'd like to see text that says that "@prefix" is discouraged in order to promote cut&paste

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'd like to see text that says that "@prefix" is discouraged in order to promote cut&paste

15:34:45 <cgreer> ivan: What Sandro said is what I meant -- we expected this comment earlier

Ivan Herman: What Sandro said is what I meant -- we expected this comment earlier

15:35:05 <cgreer> ... we got no comment on @previx vs. PREFIX

... we got no comment on @previx vs. PREFIX

15:35:26 <cgreer> ericP: We've gotten comments from implementers who don't like it.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: We've gotten comments from implementers who don't like it.

15:35:29 <AndyS> the comment was first made March 2.

Andy Seaborne: the comment was first made March 2.

15:35:49 <ericP> we've also gotten comments from users who want cut and paste

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we've also gotten comments from users who want cut and paste

15:35:57 <cgreer> davidwood: Most people won't care particularly

David Wood: Most people won't care particularly

15:36:14 <cgreer> ivan: As a user I don't care.

Ivan Herman: As a user I don't care.

15:36:36 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:36:36 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:36:37 <cgreer> davidwood: Then let's wait for a week.  See how it settles

David Wood: Then let's wait for a week. See how it settles

15:37:13 <cgreer> topic: semantics

3. semantics

15:37:31 <pfps> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Apr/0101.html

Peter Patel-Schneider: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Apr/0101.html

15:37:37 <davidwood> ISSUE-107?

David Wood: ISSUE-107?

15:37:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open

15:37:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107

15:37:44 <cgreer> pfps: Blank node definition

Peter Patel-Schneider: Blank node definition

15:38:03 <cgreer> ... different graphs can share blank nodes.  We've agreed on that.

... different graphs can share blank nodes. We've agreed on that.

15:38:11 <cgreer> ... So how to change semantics and concepts to reflect reality

... So how to change semantics and concepts to reflect reality

15:38:42 <cgreer> ... RDF graphs can share blank nodes.  When you merge two graphs you don't have to relabel blank nodes, because they may indeed refer to the same one

... RDF graphs can share blank nodes. When you merge two graphs you don't have to relabel blank nodes, because they may indeed refer to the same one

15:39:05 <cgreer> PatH: Some more elaborate discussions have been put to bed.

Patrick Hayes: Some more elaborate discussions have been put to bed.

15:39:13 <cgreer> ... we won't use formal scope

... we won't use formal scope

15:39:27 <cgreer> pfps: But something needs to be added to concepts.

Peter Patel-Schneider: But something needs to be added to concepts.

15:39:27 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0135.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0135.html

15:40:07 <cgreer> davidwood: I don't think that Richard's propsed text fully addressed everything that Peter mentioned.

David Wood: I don't think that Richard's propsed text fully addressed everything that Peter mentioned.

15:40:29 <cgreer> pfps: Richard's message from 11/9/2012 doesn't talk about this.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Richard's message from 11/9/2012 doesn't talk about this.

15:40:52 <cgreer> ... all it does is change wording that introduces blank nodes

... all it does is change wording that introduces blank nodes

15:40:54 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:40:59 <cgreer> ... They're not IRIs and not literals

... They're not IRIs and not literals

15:41:21 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes is I think the only place we talk about this at the moment ;_)

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes is I think the only place we talk about this at the moment ;_)

15:41:32 <PatH> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:41:59 <gavinc> TriG doesn't say "may"

Gavin Carothers: TriG doesn't say "may"

15:42:34 <cgreer> pfps: Section 1.7 of concepts ...

Peter Patel-Schneider: Section 1.7 of concepts ...

15:42:49 <cgreer> ... concepts doc hasn't been changed, and has been overtaken by revision of semantics

... concepts doc hasn't been changed, and has been overtaken by revision of semantics

15:43:11 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:43:16 <cgreer> pfps takes action to propose wording for concepts

pfps takes action to propose wording for concepts

15:43:16 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:43:33 <gavinc> +q to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists

Gavin Carothers: +q to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists

15:43:47 <cgreer> ivan: Agreed, action to Peter because we have to move

Ivan Herman: Agreed, action to Peter because we have to move

15:44:20 <cgreer> Action: pfps to revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes

ACTION: pfps to revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes

15:44:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-252 - Revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-252 - Revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].

15:44:35 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:44:46 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

15:44:46 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists

15:44:49 <PatH> -q

Patrick Hayes: -q

15:45:15 <cgreer> gavinc: Wanted to make sure that some of this 'scope' has been pushed into syntax.  Confirm that wording is ok in TriG?

Gavin Carothers: Wanted to make sure that some of this 'scope' has been pushed into syntax. Confirm that wording is ok in TriG?

15:45:27 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes

15:45:29 <gavinc> BlankNodes sharing the same label in differently labeled graph statements must be considered to be the same BlankNode.

Gavin Carothers: BlankNodes sharing the same label in differently labeled graph statements must be considered to be the same BlankNode.

15:45:50 <cgreer> ivan: That is what we decided.

Ivan Herman: That is what we decided.

15:46:17 <pchampin> +1 Pat

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 Pat

15:46:23 <cgreer> PatH: Presuming that TriG implies 'in the same file'

Patrick Hayes: Presuming that TriG implies 'in the same file'

15:46:26 <pchampin> +1 Ivan, Gavin

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 Ivan, Gavin

15:46:27 <pchampin> :)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: :)

15:46:34 <pchampin> me too

Pierre-Antoine Champin: me too

15:46:36 <AndyS> One parser run.

Andy Seaborne: One parser run.

15:46:37 <cgreer> PatH: I'd feel happier if it said that.

Patrick Hayes: I'd feel happier if it said that.

15:46:45 <cgreer> pfps: That's not what it means

Peter Patel-Schneider: That's not what it means

15:46:52 <cgreer> gavinc: No, it's one parser run

Gavin Carothers: No, it's one parser run

15:47:23 <cgreer> davidwood: That's exactly what it should say.  One parser run.

David Wood: That's exactly what it should say. One parser run.

15:47:32 <cgreer> PatH: Also this is a non-normative section with MUST

Patrick Hayes: Also this is a non-normative section with MUST

15:48:23 <cgreer> sandro: There's a respec change to default sections -- default -> non-normative rather than default -> normative

Sandro Hawke: There's a respec change to default sections -- default -> non-normative rather than default -> normative

15:48:29 <cgreer> sandro: But let's not rely on the default

Sandro Hawke: But let's not rely on the default

15:49:21 <cgreer> davidwood: any more business?

David Wood: any more business?

15:49:36 <cgreer> subtopic: issue-109

3.1. ISSUE-109

15:49:36 <davidwood> ISSUE-109?

David Wood: ISSUE-109?

15:49:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-109 -- What's the consequence of a literal being ill-typed? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-109 -- What's the consequence of a literal being ill-typed? -- open

15:49:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/109

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/109

15:50:32 <pchampin> 5.5 of concepts should be rephrased

Pierre-Antoine Champin: 5.5 of concepts should be rephrased

15:50:39 <cgreer> Action: to pfps to review concepts for what it says about ill typed literals

ACTION: to pfps to review concepts for what it says about ill typed literals

15:50:39 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

15:50:53 <davidwood> ISSUE-118?

David Wood: ISSUE-118?

15:50:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Simplifying datatype semantics -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-118 -- Simplifying datatype semantics -- open

15:50:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/118

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/118

15:51:21 <cgreer> Action: to PatH propose solution for ISSUE-118

ACTION: to PatH propose solution for ISSUE-118

15:51:21 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

15:51:28 <pfps> Action: pfps to propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals

ACTION: pfps to propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals

15:51:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-253 - Propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-253 - Propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].

15:51:40 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus

15:52:12 <PatH> sandro, what is latest respec link we should use?

Patrick Hayes: sandro, what is latest respec link we should use?

15:52:16 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:52:17 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg

15:52:17 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

15:52:18 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:52:18 <Zakim> -cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer

15:52:19 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:52:19 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

15:52:20 <Zakim> -GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC

15:52:20 <Zakim> -tallted

Zakim IRC Bot: -tallted

15:52:21 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:52:23 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

15:52:23 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

15:52:24 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

15:52:27 <Zakim> -markus

Zakim IRC Bot: -markus

15:52:28 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

15:52:28 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro, pfps, Ivan, SteveH, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, +1.707.874.aabb, cgreer, GavinC, tallted, +1.540.898.aacc, davidwood, gkellogg, +081165aadd, AZ,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro, pfps, Ivan, SteveH, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, +1.707.874.aabb, cgreer, GavinC, tallted, +1.540.898.aacc, davidwood, gkellogg, +081165aadd, AZ,

15:52:28 <Zakim> ... markus, ericP, PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: ... markus, ericP, PatH

15:52:30 <cgreer> Action: PatH to propose solution for ISSUE-118

ACTION: PatH to propose solution for ISSUE-118

15:52:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-254 - Propose solution for ISSUE-118 [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-04-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-254 - Propose solution for ISSUE-118 [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-04-24].



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