edit

RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 10 April 2013

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Manu Sporny, Markus Lanthaler, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Thomas Baker, Yves Raimond
Chair
Guus Schreiber
Scribe
Charles Greer
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Minutes accepted from April 3 telecon link
  2. publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents. link
  3. Arnaud is willing to serve as editor for this putative note. link
Topics
14:59:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-irc

14:59:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:59:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

14:59:07 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:07 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2013
14:59:22 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office

14:59:22 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made

14:59:54 <Guus> trackbot, start meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, start meeting

14:59:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:59:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

14:59:59 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:59 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2013
15:00:26 <AndyS> zakim, who is here?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is here?

15:00:26 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

15:00:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot

15:00:31 <AndyS> zakim, who is here?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is here?

15:00:31 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

15:00:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot

15:01:16 <Guus> pls volunteer to scribe

Guus Schreiber: pls volunteer to scribe

15:02:17 <Arnaud> zakim, mute me

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, mute me

15:02:17 <Zakim> sorry, Arnaud, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Arnaud, I don't know what conference this is

15:02:56 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394

Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is 73394

15:02:56 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

15:03:06 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, [IPcaller], pfps, Sandro, ??P9, ??P11, Arnaud, cgreer, ??P18, ??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, [IPcaller], pfps, Sandro, ??P9, ??P11, Arnaud, cgreer, ??P18, ??P17

15:03:09 <markus> zakim, code?

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, code?

15:03:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

15:03:11 <Zakim> -??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9

15:03:16 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

15:03:16 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:03:19 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P18

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P18

15:03:19 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

15:03:27 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

15:03:39 <markus> zakim, ??P20 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P20 is me

15:03:39 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

15:03:47 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call?

15:03:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, AndyS, pfps, Sandro, ??P11, Arnaud (muted), cgreer, gkellogg, ??P17, markus

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, AndyS, pfps, Sandro, ??P11, Arnaud (muted), cgreer, gkellogg, ??P17, markus

15:03:54 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:03:59 <AZ> Zakim, ??P17 is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P17 is me

15:04:00 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:04:00 <pchampin> zakim, ??P21 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P21 is me

15:04:00 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:04:09 <cgreer> scribenick cgreer

Charles Greer: scribenick cgreer

15:04:17 <Zakim> +bhyland

Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland

15:04:18 <Guus> chair: Guus
15:04:33 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me

David Wood: Zakim, bhyland is me

15:04:34 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it

15:04:50 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer

(Scribe set to Charles Greer)

15:05:25 <pfps> Minutes are beautiful

Peter Patel-Schneider: Minutes are beautiful

15:05:42 <cgreer> RESOLVED: Minutes accepted from April 3 telecon

RESOLVED: Minutes accepted from April 3 telecon

15:05:56 <cgreer> topic: telecon bridge

1. telecon bridge

15:06:20 <cgreer> sandro: zakim is over capacity at noon

Sandro Hawke: zakim is over capacity at noon

15:06:26 <cgreer> ... running late causes a problem

... running late causes a problem

15:06:45 <cgreer> ... there's a system called calliflower that I propose to use

... there's a system called calliflower that I propose to use

15:07:24 <cgreer> ... I propose we try it next week.

... I propose we try it next week.

15:07:31 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

15:07:35 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P28 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P28 is me

15:07:35 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:07:36 <cgreer> ... I propose we use IRC as normal

... I propose we use IRC as normal

15:07:45 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

15:07:49 <pfps> so no connection betrween IRC and  the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: so no connection betrween IRC and the phone?

15:07:50 <cgreer> ... People using the phone won't show up on IRC

... People using the phone won't show up on IRC

15:08:08 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is talking?

15:08:11 <davidwood> So we will lose some IRC/telephone integration

David Wood: So we will lose some IRC/telephone integration

15:08:16 <Arnaud> I think attendance is the biggest loss

Arnaud Le Hors: I think attendance is the biggest loss

15:08:19 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (9%), AndyS (16%), Sandro (43%)

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (9%), AndyS (16%), Sandro (43%)

15:08:28 <Arnaud> for queue management I don't see why we don't keep using irc

Arnaud Le Hors: for queue management I don't see why we don't keep using irc

15:08:37 <cgreer> sandro: the current list is generated by phone and IRC -- people only on the phone will have to be notated on IRC

Sandro Hawke: the current list is generated by phone and IRC -- people only on the phone will have to be notated on IRC

15:09:06 <cgreer> ... it would be easy to automate if turns out to be worthwhile

... it would be easy to automate if turns out to be worthwhile

15:09:21 <cgreer> manu: We could allow use of our system

Manu Sporny: We could allow use of our system

15:09:23 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

15:09:42 <cgreer> ... If the JSON-LD minutes are acceptable, then we could try out that system.

... If the JSON-LD minutes are acceptable, then we could try out that system.

15:09:55 <cgreer> ... You can call in with voip or regular phone, as the latter costs money

... You can call in with voip or regular phone, as the latter costs money

15:10:17 <cgreer> ... it's our service.  We run an Asterisk server

... it's our service. We run an Asterisk server

15:10:47 <cgreer> ... it's not as complete as Zakim, but it's open source and people can extend it

... it's not as complete as Zakim, but it's open source and people can extend it

15:10:59 <ericP> appreciating manu's generous offer, i think we'd end up hacking the system and so we'd want to use digital bizarre's service only if we were going to adopt asterisk

Eric Prud'hommeaux: appreciating manu's generous offer, i think we'd end up hacking the system and so we'd want to use digital bizarre's service only if we were going to adopt asterisk

15:11:09 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

15:11:18 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:11:20 <cgreer> ericP: I expect we'd want to hack the system though.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I expect we'd want to hack the system though.

15:11:52 <cgreer> ... this ups the value of w3c setting up an asterisk server.

... this ups the value of w3c setting up an asterisk server.

15:12:00 <cgreer> davidwood: stay tuned for email about next week

David Wood: stay tuned for email about next week

15:12:16 <cgreer> ... everyone OK to delegate to chairs about next week's telecon?

... everyone OK to delegate to chairs about next week's telecon?

15:12:17 <pfps> Go wild!

Peter Patel-Schneider: Go wild!

15:12:18 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

15:12:38 <cgreer> guus: Any alternate we choose must not increase admin.

Guus Schreiber: Any alternate we choose must not increase admin.

15:12:48 <cgreer> sandro: I'll take on any additional admin

Sandro Hawke: I'll take on any additional admin

15:13:14 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

15:13:40 <cgreer> topic: action items

2. action items

15:14:23 <cgreer> ericP: We can't wrap up test suite until stream of comments has calmed

Eric Prud'hommeaux: We can't wrap up test suite until stream of comments has calmed

15:14:39 <cgreer> guus: Gavin has an action.

Guus Schreiber: Gavin has an action.

15:15:27 <cgreer> ericP:  We choose new URL, Gavin tags, then set up proxy.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: We choose new URL, Gavin tags, then set up proxy.

15:15:29 <gavinc> First I get Grants from the two other contributors, which I will finally have time to do this week!

Gavin Carothers: First I get Grants from the two other contributors, which I will finally have time to do this week!

15:15:34 <gavinc> woohoo!

Gavin Carothers: woohoo!

15:16:13 <trackbot> Did you mean to close ACTION-241? If so, please say 'close ACTION-241'.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Did you mean to close ACTION-241? If so, please say 'close ACTION-241'.

15:16:18 <cgreer> close ACTION-241

close ACTION-241

15:16:18 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-241 Review JSON-LD API document.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-241 Review JSON-LD API document.

15:16:34 <gavinc> Thanks Guus for finishing those

Gavin Carothers: Thanks Guus for finishing those

15:16:41 <cgreer> topic: Document Publication

3. Document Publication

15:16:50 <cgreer> guus: There are four new FPWDs

Guus Schreiber: There are four new FPWDs

15:17:30 <gavinc> https://github.com/darobin/respec

Gavin Carothers: https://github.com/darobin/respec

15:17:31 <cgreer> guus: The respec document has a list where you should put comments, but the list doesn't exist.  respec is generating the wrong HTML

Guus Schreiber: The respec document has a list where you should put comments, but the list doesn't exist. respec is generating the wrong HTML

15:17:35 <gavinc> that's respec today?

Gavin Carothers: that's respec today?

15:17:48 <cgreer> guus: Who maintains it?  No email address for the comment list

Guus Schreiber: Who maintains it? No email address for the comment list

15:18:04 <gavinc> https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues ;)

Gavin Carothers: https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues ;)

15:18:21 <gavinc> Magic, you know via Magic

Gavin Carothers: Magic, you know via Magic

15:18:37 <cgreer> markus: Robin is pretty good with responding from github

Markus Lanthaler: Robin is pretty good with responding from github

15:19:02 <gavinc> Yeah, pubrules is wrong ;)

Gavin Carothers: Yeah, pubrules is wrong ;)

15:19:21 <cgreer> guus: Leaving in RDFa generates pubrules errors

Guus Schreiber: Leaving in RDFa generates pubrules errors

15:19:30 <cgreer> ericP: Use "1.1" rather than "true" for RDFa

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Use "1.1" rather than "true" for RDFa

15:19:44 <cgreer> sandro: It may generate errors that the web admin has to resolve

Sandro Hawke: It may generate errors that the web admin has to resolve

15:19:58 <gavinc> I'm pretty sure that RDFa only works in the XHTML output, not the HTML output

Gavin Carothers: I'm pretty sure that RDFa only works in the XHTML output, not the HTML output

15:19:59 <cgreer> guus: Somebody help with publication wiki page maintenance please

Guus Schreiber: Somebody help with publication wiki page maintenance please

15:20:11 <cgreer> topic: JSON-LD

4. JSON-LD

15:20:40 <cgreer> gkellogg: Markus has prepared JSON-LD 1.0 and JSON-LD-API

Gregg Kellogg: Markus has prepared JSON-LD 1.0 and JSON-LD-API

15:20:56 <cgreer> ... They pass pubrules, etc, etc

... They pass pubrules, etc, etc

15:21:10 <cgreer> ... We've closed the loops with commenters, no outstanding issues

... We've closed the loops with commenters, no outstanding issues

15:21:35 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

Markus Lanthaler: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk

15:21:40 <cgreer> ... We've marked a few things 'feature at risk' for those things we want feedback during LC

... We've marked a few things 'feature at risk' for those things we want feedback during LC

15:22:02 <cgreer> ... We just want proposal and resolution to publish as LC

... We just want proposal and resolution to publish as LC

15:22:05 <cgreer> ... The end

... The end

15:22:19 <manu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld/20130411/index.html

Manu Sporny: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld/20130411/index.html

15:22:24 <manu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-api/20130411/index.html

Manu Sporny: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-api/20130411/index.html

15:22:54 <cgreer> guus: I'd like to go through features at risk

Guus Schreiber: I'd like to go through features at risk

15:23:02 <cgreer> manu: From the top --

Manu Sporny: From the top --

15:23:09 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.96.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.96.aaaa

15:23:09 <cgreer> ... @base

... @base

15:23:32 <cgreer> ... we were trying to cut down on the number of keywords, but we got feedback that it's a useful features

... we were trying to cut down on the number of keywords, but we got feedback that it's a useful features

15:23:54 <FabGandon> Zakim, +33.4.92.96.aaaa is me

Fabien Gandon: Zakim, +33.4.92.96.aaaa is me

15:23:54 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it

15:24:03 <cgreer> ... The interop of blank @base vs. explicit @base is confusing (potentially)

... The interop of blank @base vs. explicit @base is confusing (potentially)

15:24:13 <cgreer> ... The other concern is what the empty string should do

... The other concern is what the empty string should do

15:24:30 <cgreer> ... Next feature at risk is reverse property

... Next feature at risk is reverse property

15:24:42 <cgreer> ... Allows one to switch subject and object position

... Allows one to switch subject and object position

15:24:52 <cgreer> ... Again, concern is use vs confusion

... Again, concern is use vs confusion

15:25:00 <cgreer> ... Next feature - -blank nodes as properties

... Next feature - -blank nodes as properties

15:25:21 <cgreer> ... Compromise in spec now.  We await feedback from implementors

... Compromise in spec now. We await feedback from implementors

15:25:53 <cgreer> ... Converting list of lists.  The algorithm for this is fairly complex, use is questioned.

... Converting list of lists. The algorithm for this is fairly complex, use is questioned.

15:26:05 <cgreer> gkellogg: We marked this feature as 'at risk' and we've not provided implementation

Gregg Kellogg: We marked this feature as 'at risk' and we've not provided implementation

15:26:19 <cgreer> manu: Next has to do with Web IDL

Manu Sporny: Next has to do with Web IDL

15:26:35 <cgreer> ... We use web IDL to express the API.  There are rough patches in this standard.

... We use web IDL to express the API. There are rough patches in this standard.

15:26:36 <gkellogg> Also, note RDFa 1.1 does not support lists of lists.

Gregg Kellogg: Also, note RDFa 1.1 does not support lists of lists.

15:27:14 <cgreer> ... If you specify an optional parameter, you cannot mix and match optionality or parameters... you have to overload signatures to express this.

... If you specify an optional parameter, you cannot mix and match optionality or parameters... you have to overload signatures to express this.

15:27:24 <gkellogg> (Rather, neither have syntactic sugar for lists of lists, they do support explicit rdf:first/rdf:next

Gregg Kellogg: (Rather, neither have syntactic sugar for lists of lists, they do support explicit rdf:first/rdf:next

15:28:15 <cgreer> ... We ran API against Web IDL test harness.

... We ran API against Web IDL test harness.

15:28:37 <cgreer> ... It fails method overloading, but we think the JSON-LD-API is correct nevertheless

... It fails method overloading, but we think the JSON-LD-API is correct nevertheless

15:29:08 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:29:08 <cgreer> ... This isn't a technical issue, but how to get around problems in Web IDL and still reference it

... This isn't a technical issue, but how to get around problems in Web IDL and still reference it

15:29:18 <cgreer> manu: Last feature,

Manu Sporny: Last feature,

15:29:29 <cgreer> ... We're thinking we might change default value of @base

... We're thinking we might change default value of @base

15:29:45 <cgreer> ... to null, so that by default relative IRIs are not expanded

... to null, so that by default relative IRIs are not compacted

15:29:54 <cgreer> s/expanded/compacted
15:30:09 <cgreer> ... That's it

... That's it

15:30:21 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

15:31:02 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:31:02 <cgreer> sandro: This is important work, not perfect, but I think it's ready for LC

Sandro Hawke: This is important work, not perfect, but I think it's ready for LC

15:31:46 <PatH> +1 sandro

Patrick Hayes: +1 sandro

15:32:02 <cgreer> PROPOSED to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents

PROPOSED to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents

15:32:07 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

15:32:11 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:32:16 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

15:32:27 <sandro> PROPOSED: to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents

PROPOSED: to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents

15:32:46 <sandro> manu: 4 weeks last call

Manu Sporny: 4 weeks last call [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:32:50 <cgreer> manu: Publication date is 4/11, LC period is for four weeks

Manu Sporny: Publication date is 4/11, LC period is for four weeks

15:32:54 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:32:58 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:32:59 <manu> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

15:33:03 <cgreer> +1

+1

15:33:07 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:33:08 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:33:12 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:33:12 <FabGandon> +1

Fabien Gandon: +1

15:33:13 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

15:33:18 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:33:26 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:33:27 <cgreer> RESOLVED: publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents.

RESOLVED: publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents.

15:33:28 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

15:33:39 <davidwood> Whew!

David Wood: Whew!

15:33:39 <ericP> congrats!

Eric Prud'hommeaux: congrats!

15:33:57 <sandro> much thanks!

Sandro Hawke: much thanks!

15:34:14 <cgreer> sandro: Question about LC period.  Semtech is in the middle of it.

Sandro Hawke: Question about LC period. Semtech is in the middle of it.

15:34:30 <cgreer> ... Do we want to be in CR or LC for semtech?

... Do we want to be in CR or LC for semtech?

15:34:52 <cgreer> guus: We'd thought of skipping CR --

Guus Schreiber: We'd thought of skipping CR --

15:35:09 <cgreer> markus: There's a marker in the spec the we could skip if there are a lot of implementors

Markus Lanthaler: There's a marker in the spec the we could skip if there are a lot of implementors

15:35:39 <Arnaud> usual rant: there is no such thing as "skipping CR" per se, the question is whether we believe we already qualify to exit CR right away

Arnaud Le Hors: usual rant: there is no such thing as "skipping CR" per se, the question is whether we believe we already qualify to exit CR right away

15:35:43 <cgreer> sandro: LC ends on May 11.  So that would give us three weeks to get to CR for Semtech

Sandro Hawke: LC ends on May 11. So that would give us three weeks to get to CR for Semtech

15:36:10 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

15:36:19 <Arnaud> zakim, unmute me

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, unmute me

15:36:19 <Zakim> Arnaud was not muted, Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: Arnaud was not muted, Arnaud

15:36:31 <Arnaud> q+

Arnaud Le Hors: q+

15:36:52 <cgreer> manu: We want to make sure we can address any issues during LC

Manu Sporny: We want to make sure we can address any issues during LC

15:37:09 <sandro> sandro: Given all the Features as Risk, let's not skip CR.

Sandro Hawke: Given all the Features as Risk, let's not skip CR. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:37:58 <Guus> ack  Arnoud

Guus Schreiber: ack Arnoud

15:37:58 <cgreer> Arnaud: There's no such thing as skipping CR

Arnaud Le Hors: There's no such thing as skipping CR

15:38:20 <cgreer> ... You have to go to CR technically.  If we meet criteria to exit right away, then we can move through it quick.

... You have to go to CR technically. If we meet criteria to exit right away, then we can move through it quick.

15:38:27 <cgreer> sandro: well, you can skip, but we're not going to.

Sandro Hawke: well, you can skip, but we're not going to.

15:38:30 <sandro> 4 Weeks puts us at May 9

Sandro Hawke: 4 Weeks puts us at May 9

15:38:54 <cgreer> guus: Correct date -- May 10 for end of LC

Guus Schreiber: Correct date -- May 10 for end of LC

15:38:59 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:39:08 <cgreer> manu: OK we'll update docs

Manu Sporny: OK we'll update docs

15:39:35 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/

Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/test-suite/

15:39:43 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/

Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/

15:39:52 <cgreer> manu: Test suite is in good shape.  Gregg has put together a quick publication of test suite.  Fairly rough but improving.

Manu Sporny: Test suite is in good shape. Gregg has put together a quick publication of test suite. Fairly rough but improving.

15:40:18 <Zakim> +Sandro.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro.a

15:40:22 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:40:27 <cgreer> gkellogg: The process is similar to that from turtle, but needs further documentation -- the differentiation of different test types.

Gregg Kellogg: The process is similar to that from turtle, but needs further documentation -- the differentiation of different test types.

15:40:48 <cgreer> ... We don't have any syntax-only tests

... We don't have any syntax-only tests

15:41:21 <davidwood> Arnaud, regarding skipping a CR, please see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance where it says: "Call for Implementations. Note: The Director may permit the Working Group to skip this step if the entrance criteria for the next step have already been satisfied."

David Wood: Arnaud, regarding skipping a CR, please see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance where it says: "Call for Implementations. Note: The Director may permit the Working Group to skip this step if the entrance criteria for the next step have already been satisfied."

15:41:37 <davidwood> NB -  "Call for Implementations" = CR

David Wood: NB - "Call for Implementations" = CR

15:41:40 <cgreer> gkellogg: There are submanifests for JSON-LD tests.  And an umbrella manifest that references them.

Gregg Kellogg: There are submanifests for JSON-LD tests. And an umbrella manifest that references them.

15:41:45 <cgreer> ... We don't need to consolidate further

... We don't need to consolidate further

15:42:09 <cgreer> manu: We're going to use RDF-WG tracker for issues, since it folds in email conversations

Manu Sporny: We're going to use RDF-WG tracker for issues, since it folds in email conversations

15:42:16 <Arnaud> david, ok, I stand corrected!

Arnaud Le Hors: david, ok, I stand corrected!

15:42:23 <cgreer> ... Do not use github issue tracker for LC

... Do not use github issue tracker for LC

15:42:26 <gkellogg> SOTD references public-rdf-comments@w3.org

Gregg Kellogg: SOTD references public-rdf-comments@w3.org

15:42:43 <gavinc> Yeah, it sort of sucks.

Gavin Carothers: Yeah, it sort of sucks.

15:42:55 <Arnaud> it's just a technicality anyway, the result is the same

Arnaud Le Hors: it's just a technicality anyway, the result is the same

15:43:00 <cgreer> manu: For disposition of comments, you need an issue tracker.

Manu Sporny: For disposition of comments, you need an issue tracker.

15:43:20 <cgreer> ... we create an issue for each comment.  At end of last call we have a good set of issues.

... we create an issue for each comment. At end of last call we have a good set of issues.

15:43:36 <cgreer> sandro: How do you create a summary?

Sandro Hawke: How do you create a summary?

15:43:39 <cgreer> manu: by hand

Manu Sporny: by hand

15:43:45 <Arnaud> q-

Arnaud Le Hors: q-

15:43:50 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

15:43:55 <manu> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

15:44:12 <manu> q- manu:,

Manu Sporny: q- manu:,

15:44:15 <cgreer> topic: RDF-JSON

5. RDF-JSON

15:44:19 <manu> q- by

Manu Sporny: q- by

15:44:38 <cgreer> guus: We have a note about RDF-JSON.

Guus Schreiber: We have a note about RDF-JSON.

15:44:47 <cgreer> ... Is this useful to publish as a note?

... Is this useful to publish as a note?

15:45:03 <cgreer> Arnaud: IBM has been experimenting with JSON-LD and RDF-JSON

Arnaud Le Hors: IBM has been experimenting with JSON-LD and RDF-JSON

15:45:05 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

15:45:05 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

15:45:16 <cgreer> ... Because of the use cases, RDF-JSON is a better fit

... Because of the use cases, RDF-JSON is a better fit

15:45:42 <cgreer> ... JSON-LD is designed for JSON developers to access data stores.

... JSON-LD is designed for JSON developers to access data stores.

15:45:57 <cgreer> ... A different use case is a completely JSON environment, such as using MongoDB.

... A different use case is a completely JSON environment, such as using MongoDB.

15:46:06 <cgreer> ... And you want to use RDF within JSON syntax

... And you want to use RDF within JSON syntax

15:46:12 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:46:17 <cgreer> ... Storing RDF in JSON database

... Storing RDF in JSON database

15:46:25 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

15:46:37 <cgreer> ... Compacted form doesn't work, you want to store expanded form.

... Compacted form doesn't work, you want to store expanded form.

15:47:24 <cgreer> ... Structure of expanded JSON-LD doesn't lend itself to RDF processing out of the box -- this has led us to conclude that RDF-JSON meets other use cases better.

... Structure of expanded JSON-LD doesn't lend itself to RDF processing out of the box -- this has led us to conclude that RDF-JSON meets other use cases better.

15:47:56 <cgreer> ... This has left us with RDF-JSON listed as ED...  IBM intends to use it with a stable reference.

... This has left us with RDF-JSON listed as ED... IBM intends to use it with a stable reference.

15:48:13 <cgreer> ... We'd like to have it moved to a WG note as stable reference.

... We'd like to have it moved to a WG note as stable reference.

15:48:37 <Guus> q?

Guus Schreiber: q?

15:49:02 <cgreer> ... WG did recognize that different JSON RDF specs are useful for different use cases.

... WG did recognize that different JSON RDF specs are useful for different use cases.

15:49:09 <pchampin> q?

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q?

15:49:12 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

15:49:25 <cgreer> guus: In first F2F we did consider exactly this.

Guus Schreiber: In first F2F we did consider exactly this.

15:49:28 <AndyS> By user usage and requests -- the Talis doc got archived/made safe at http://jena.apache.org/documentation/io/rdf-json.html and implemented.

Andy Seaborne: By user usage and requests -- the Talis doc got archived/made safe at http://jena.apache.org/documentation/io/rdf-json.html and implemented.

15:49:42 <cgreer> AndyS: We've seen uptake in use of RDF-JSON.

Andy Seaborne: We've seen uptake in use of RDF-JSON.

15:50:05 <cgreer> ... A note would be good.

... A note would be good.

15:50:20 <cgreer> manu: I'm fine with publication as a note.

Manu Sporny: I'm fine with publication as a note.

15:50:28 <cgreer> ... I want to find out more specifics though.

... I want to find out more specifics though.

15:50:32 <cgreer> ... about the IBM case.

... about the IBM case.

15:50:47 <cgreer> ... We thought that JSON-LD was made for this use case.

... We thought that JSON-LD was made for this use case.

15:51:09 <Zakim> -GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC

15:51:11 <cgreer> ... I'm concerned that IBM is making --- well, why is RDF-JSON better for this?

... I'm concerned that IBM is making --- well, why is RDF-JSON better for this?

15:51:39 <cgreer> ... It seems like a dump format, but I'd like to hear more.

... It seems like a dump format, but I'd like to hear more.

15:51:43 <AndyS> mailing list please

Andy Seaborne: mailing list please

15:51:46 <gkellogg> q+

Gregg Kellogg: q+

15:51:48 <cgreer> Arnaud: OK we can keep this discussion going

Arnaud Le Hors: OK we can keep this discussion going

15:51:56 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

15:51:56 <cgreer> guus: THe RDF-WG list please

Guus Schreiber: THe RDF-WG list please

15:52:20 <Guus> ack manu

Guus Schreiber: ack manu

15:52:29 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

15:52:44 <cgreer> pchampin: I see IBM's reason for not storing JSON-LD.

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I see IBM's reason for not storing JSON-LD.

15:52:54 <cgreer> The argument is about storing, not exchange.

The argument is about storing, not exchange.

15:53:15 <cgreer> pchampin: Maybe the note should emphasize that exchange and storage are not the same JSON.

Pierre-Antoine Champin: Maybe the note should emphasize that exchange and storage do not have to ne the same JSON.

15:53:21 <Guus> ack gkellogg

Guus Schreiber: ack gkellogg

15:53:30 <manu> You don't have to store and exchange the same document in JSON-LD either.

Manu Sporny: You don't have to store and exchange the same document in JSON-LD either.

15:53:31 <pchampin> s/are not/do not have to ne/
15:53:50 <cgreer> gkellogg: We discussed one of the advantages of RDF/XML is that you can index by subject.  We'd discuss a feature called subject maps.

Gregg Kellogg: We discusseded one of the advantages of RDF/XML is that you can index by subject. We'd discussed a feature called subject maps.

15:53:50 <pchampin> s/do not have to ne/do not have to be/
15:54:04 <cgreer> s/discuss/discussed/
15:54:22 <cgreer> gkellogg: We're considering extensions/notes.

Gregg Kellogg: We're considering extensions/notes.

15:54:44 <cgreer> ... If you're storing JSON in MongoDB, URIs as keys is problematic.

... If you're storing JSON in MongoDB, URIs as keys is problematic.

15:54:55 <cgreer> ... The compact form of JSON-LD has advantages for this.

... The compact form of JSON-LD has advantages for this.

15:55:14 <cgreer> ... For query purposes, an enhanced triple format is better for indexing/storage.

... For query purposes, an enhanced triple format is better for indexing/storage.

15:55:52 <cgreer> Resolved: Arnaud is willing to serve as editor for this putative note.

RESOLVED: Arnaud is willing to serve as editor for this putative note.

15:55:58 <cgreer> topic: turtle test suite

6. turtle test suite

15:56:22 <cgreer> ericP: We'd hoped to be done, but we keep getting bug reports and comments

Eric Prud'hommeaux: We'd hoped to be done, but we keep getting bug reports and comments

15:56:22 <Zakim> -??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11

15:56:41 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1364751722.5708.24.camel@verne.drobilla.net <d@drobilla.net>'s patches to: upcase \U000b don't \U-ify unnecessary punctuation (e.g. \" or #)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1364751722.5708.24.camel@verne.drobilla.net <d@drobilla.net>'s patches to: upcase \U000b don't \U-ify unnecessary punctuation (e.g. \" or #)

15:56:48 <cgreer> ericP: Traditional ntriples (ascii ntriples) has an issue

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Traditional ntriples (ascii ntriples) has an issue

15:57:21 <cgreer> ... Verne Drobilla (?) provided a patch to unify them.

... Verne Drobilla (?) provided a patch to unify them.

15:57:48 <cgreer> AndyS: At some point we're testing RDF not turtle.  This seems to be the same case.

Andy Seaborne: At some point we're testing RDF not turtle. This seems to be the same case.

15:58:08 <cgreer> ericP: I'll use my own discretion in order to accept these patches.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'll use my own discretion in order to accept these patches.

15:58:48 <cgreer> guus: I'd prefer you use your own discretion

Guus Schreiber: I'd prefer you use your own discretion

16:00:06 <cgreer> AndyS: results are invalid if we go around changing tests.

Andy Seaborne: results are invalid if we go around changing tests.

16:00:19 <cgreer> gkellogg: So we must get some communication about location of tests.

Gregg Kellogg: So we must get some communication about location of tests.

16:00:42 <cgreer> ericP: People will have to run tests again after location move.  I'm happy to leave the tests alone.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: People will have to run tests again after location move. I'm happy to leave the tests alone.

16:00:48 <cgreer> ... The effort to change is small.

... The effort to change is small.

16:01:20 <cgreer> ... Before we publish the test suite, we have to confront the fact that xsd:strings are not xsd:strings.

... Before we publish the test suite, we have to confront the fact that xsd:strings are not xsd:strings.

16:01:35 <cgreer> ... Andy suggested we leave these alone.

... Andy suggested we leave these alone.

16:01:49 <cgreer> ericP: I'll take this to lsit

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'll take this to list

16:01:53 <cgreer> s/lsit/list/
16:02:11 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

16:02:13 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:02:15 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:02:16 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:02:16 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

16:02:16 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

16:02:21 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

16:02:23 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:02:24 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg

16:02:25 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

16:02:25 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

16:02:25 <Zakim> -markus

Zakim IRC Bot: -markus

16:02:25 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber

16:02:33 <cgreer> rrsagent, make records public

rrsagent, make records public

16:02:34 <AndyS> XML 1.1 -- http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#NT-Char

Andy Seaborne: XML 1.1 -- http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#NT-Char

16:02:58 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting

16:02:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:02:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, EricP, pfps, Sandro, Arnaud, cgreer, AndyS, gkellogg, markus, AZ, pchampin, davidwood, yvesr, PatH, GavinC, FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, EricP, pfps, Sandro, Arnaud, cgreer, AndyS, gkellogg, markus, AZ, pchampin, davidwood, yvesr, PatH, GavinC, FabGandon

16:03:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:03:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

16:03:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:03:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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