14:26:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:26:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:26:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:26:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes ←
14:26:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:26:10 <trackbot> Date: 28 March 2012
14:57:29 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 31 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:36 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
14:57:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P5 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P5 is me ←
14:57:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:59:34 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber ←
14:59:46 <Zakim> +cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer ←
15:00:13 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:00:30 <Zakim> +pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
15:01:23 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:01:25 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:01:25 <pchampin> zakim, ??P12 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
15:01:25 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> +gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
15:01:50 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
15:01:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:02:24 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
15:02:45 <Zakim> +davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood ←
15:02:53 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
15:03:02 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:03:41 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:03:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Guus_Schreiber, cgreer, Arnaud (muted), pfps, pchampin, Ivan, gavinc, MacTed (muted), sandro, davidwood, mhausenblas, ??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, Guus_Schreiber, cgreer, Arnaud (muted), pfps, pchampin, Ivan, gavinc, MacTed (muted), sandro, davidwood, mhausenblas, ??P21 ←
15:03:42 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P21 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P21 is me ←
15:03:44 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:03:50 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
15:03:50 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:04:08 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:05:14 <sandro> scribe: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
15:05:20 <sandro> proposed: accept minutes from last week
PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week ←
15:05:28 <sandro> resolved: accept minutes from last week
RESOLVED: accept minutes from last week ←
15:05:34 <sandro> topic: action item review
15:06:09 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa ←
15:06:14 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my
https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my ←
15:06:28 <sandro> davidwood: Anyone want to own up to progress on any actions?
David Wood: Anyone want to own up to progress on any actions? ←
15:06:42 <sandro> AndyS: I'm waiting for word from the editors that the draft is ready for review.
Andy Seaborne: I'm waiting for word from the editors that the draft is ready for review. ←
15:06:51 <LeeF> scribe: LeeF
(Scribe set to Lee Feigenbaum)
15:06:58 <gavinc> I claim victory on 150, and ...mostly... 155
Gavin Carothers: I claim victory on 150, and ...mostly... 155 ←
15:07:04 <pchampin> I had the same understanding
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I had the same understanding ←
15:07:15 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150 ←
15:07:20 <LeeF> ACTION-150?
15:07:20 <trackbot> ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN ←
15:07:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150 ←
15:07:31 <NickH> Zakim, NickH is with yvesr
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, NickH is with yvesr ←
15:07:31 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
15:07:44 <davidwood> close ACTION-150
David Wood: close ACTION-150 ←
15:07:44 <trackbot> ACTION-150 Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-150 Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names closed ←
15:07:45 <LeeF> gavinc: it was really easy and it did work
Gavin Carothers: it was really easy and it did work ←
15:07:54 <LeeF> AndyS: Is the doc ready for review?
Andy Seaborne: Is the doc ready for review? ←
15:08:01 <LeeF> gavinc: for my part, yes. ask eric too
Gavin Carothers: for my part, yes. ask eric too ←
15:08:19 <LeeF> AndyS: Excellent. OK if there are still bits to do
Andy Seaborne: Excellent. OK if there are still bits to do ←
15:08:34 <LeeF> gavinc: right, let's see if Eric is happy with the collections in turtle bits. in section 4
Gavin Carothers: right, let's see if Eric is happy with the collections in turtle bits. in section 4 ←
15:08:54 <davidwood> Topic: Turtle
15:09:02 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:09:38 <LeeF> davidwood: tried to close all actions and issues from last week that were already closed and left ones that need further discussion. gavin, eric, andy, pierre-antoine -- should we go through actions or just pick off select ones?
David Wood: tried to close all actions and issues from last week that were already closed and left ones that need further discussion. gavin, eric, andy, pierre-antoine -- should we go through actions or just pick off select ones? ←
15:10:23 <LeeF> <lots of REALLY strong opinions registered in response>
<lots of REALLY strong opinions registered in response> ←
15:10:37 <ivan> scribenick: LeeF
15:10:45 <Zakim> +FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon ←
15:11:43 <LeeF> ISSUE-74?
15:11:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open ←
15:11:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74 ←
15:12:02 <LeeF> ACTION-151?
15:12:02 <trackbot> ACTION-151 -- Gavin Carothers to update issue 74 with new escaping rules -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-151 -- Gavin Carothers to update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN ←
15:12:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/151
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/151 ←
15:12:11 <LeeF> davidwood: status of 151?
David Wood: status of 151? ←
15:12:19 <LeeF> gavinc: ok to close, but should also close ISSUE-74
Gavin Carothers: ok to close, but should also close ISSUE-74 ←
15:12:26 <LeeF> ... no longer valid
... no longer valid ←
15:12:28 <davidwood> close ACTION-151
David Wood: close ACTION-151 ←
15:12:28 <trackbot> ACTION-151 Update issue 74 with new escaping rules closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-151 Update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules closed ←
15:13:41 <LeeF> ACTION-152?
15:13:41 <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN ←
15:13:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152 ←
15:13:46 <davidwood> Closed ISSURE-74
David Wood: Closed ISSURE-74 ←
15:13:53 <davidwood> Closed ISSUE-74
David Wood: Closed ISSUE-74 ←
15:14:13 <LeeF> gavinc: issue is FB Open Graph Protocol, which have URIs with colons in local names, particularly in RDFa representation. When Facebook serializes it, you either get invalid Turtle (includes colons), or you get back full IRIs
Gavin Carothers: issue is FB Open Graph Protocol, which have URIs with colons in local names, particularly in RDFa representation. When Facebook serializes it, you either get invalid Turtle (includes colons), or you get back full IRIs ←
15:14:22 <LeeF> close ISSUE-74
15:14:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 Prefixed names and slashes closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 Prefixed names and slashes closed ←
15:14:43 <LeeF> ericP: if we had influence, we could persuade them to put a backslash before the colon and all would be ok
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if we had influence, we could persuade them to put a backslash before the colon and all would be ok ←
15:14:50 <LeeF> davidwood: shoudl we really be changing the standard based on this?
David Wood: shoudl we really be changing the standard based on this? ←
15:15:01 <LeeF> gavinc: problem is that RDFa is OK with it
Gavin Carothers: problem is that RDFa is OK with it ←
15:15:19 <LeeF> ... facebook is confused because the 2 specs are confusing
... facebook is confused because the 2 specs are confusing ←
15:15:23 <LeeF> davidwood: <redacted>
David Wood: <redacted> ←
15:16:09 <LeeF> davidwood: does anyone object to this change in turtle?
David Wood: does anyone object to this change in turtle? ←
15:16:35 <LeeF> q+ how does this affect SPARQL?
q+ how does this affect SPARQL? ←
15:16:39 <LeeF> q+ to ask how does this affect SPARQL?
q+ to ask how does this affect SPARQL? ←
15:16:42 <sandro> looking at http://ogp.me/ seeing og:locale:alternate and og:image:url and music:album:track etc...
Sandro Hawke: looking at http://ogp.me/ seeing og:locale:alternate and og:image:url and music:album:track etc... ←
15:16:46 <LeeF> ericP: seems like a safe change
Eric Prud'hommeaux: seems like a safe change ←
15:17:04 <NickH> Open Graph Protocol changes regularly...
Nicholas Humfrey: Open Graph Protocol changes regularly... ←
15:17:33 <sandro> +1 allowing colons in local parts
Sandro Hawke: +1 allowing colons in local parts ←
15:17:54 <ivan> +1 to sandro, i.e., transitively, to allow colons in local parts
Ivan Herman: +1 to sandro, i.e., transitively, to allow colons in local parts ←
15:18:01 <LeeF> ericP: 2 languages that are similar, one syntax difference that pepole are tripping over. other differences which haven't been come against. make our lives easier by allowing colons?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: 2 languages that are similar, one syntax difference that pepole are tripping over. other differences which haven't been come against. make our lives easier by allowing colons? ←
15:18:12 <LeeF> q?
q? ←
15:18:18 <LeeF> ack LeeF
ack LeeF ←
15:18:18 <Zakim> LeeF, you wanted to ask how does this affect SPARQL?
Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, you wanted to ask how does this affect SPARQL? ←
15:18:22 <NickH> having colons in the local part is a bit confusing but it does look nice
Nicholas Humfrey: having colons in the local part is a bit confusing but it does look nice ←
15:18:26 <sandro> d'oh
Sandro Hawke: d'oh ←
15:18:28 <NickH> like a URN ;-)
Nicholas Humfrey: like a URN ;-) ←
15:18:31 <sandro> forgot about SPARQL
Sandro Hawke: forgot about SPARQL ←
15:18:42 <LeeF> LeeF: Uhh guys, what about SPARQL?
Lee Feigenbaum: Uhh guys, what about SPARQL? ←
15:18:42 <AndyS> Just on ":" (and not "/"). Technically, can be done (I think, not checked), but it breaks a lot of existing software in a confusing way.
Andy Seaborne: Just on ":" (and not "/"). Technically, can be done (I think, not checked), but it breaks a lot of existing software in a confusing way. ←
15:18:53 <LeeF> . Everyone : Oh.
. Everyone : Oh. ←
15:19:14 <LeeF> ivan: not a question of RDFa or SPARQL. there are millions of pages that already do this
Ivan Herman: not a question of RDFa or SPARQL. there are millions of pages that already do this ←
15:19:34 <LeeF> sandro: this isn't just a gorilla, it's sensible design
Sandro Hawke: this isn't just a gorilla, it's sensible design ←
15:19:49 <LeeF> ivan: would it trigger a new last call for SPARQL?
Ivan Herman: would it trigger a new last call for SPARQL? ←
15:20:17 <sandro> lee: There might be a new LC for SPARQL, so there MAY be a window here.
Lee Feigenbaum: There might be a new LC for SPARQL, so there MAY be a window here. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:20:54 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:21:02 <sandro> lee: If you want to do this, ask the SPARQL WG *today* please
Lee Feigenbaum: If you want to do this, ask the SPARQL WG *today* please [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:21:13 <Arnaud> q+
Arnaud Le Hors: q+ ←
15:21:21 <ivan> ack AndyS
Ivan Herman: ack AndyS ←
15:21:25 <LeeF> AndyS: think it's technically possible, i could check
Andy Seaborne: think it's technically possible, i could check ←
15:21:33 <LeeF> ... i don't think it's just the 2 WGs involved
... i don't think it's just the 2 WGs involved ←
15:21:39 <LeeF> ... convincing implementers of this change shouldn't be dismissed
... convincing implementers of this change shouldn't be dismissed ←
15:21:44 <LeeF> ... turtle has been this way for a very long time
... turtle has been this way for a very long time ←
15:22:00 <LeeF> ... initial reaction will certainly be pushback (active and passive)
... initial reaction will certainly be pushback (active and passive) ←
15:22:07 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:22:13 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:22:18 <LeeF> ack Arnaud
ack Arnaud ←
15:22:23 <ivan> ack Arnaud
Ivan Herman: ack Arnaud ←
15:22:38 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:22:41 <PatH> Sorry Im late (again).
Patrick Hayes: Sorry Im late (again). ←
15:22:42 <LeeF> Arnaud: we could consider asking facebook if they'd be willing to change. even though they are really big, they have a couple of lines of code to change in one place which might make the change everywhere
Arnaud Le Hors: we could consider asking facebook if they'd be willing to change. even though they are really big, they have a couple of lines of code to change in one place which might make the change everywhere ←
15:22:53 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
15:22:55 <LeeF> gavinc: not enough for FB to change their parser, everyone who has created a web page using this has to change also
Gavin Carothers: not enough for FB to change their parser, everyone who has created a web page using this has to change also ←
15:23:10 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:23:21 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
15:23:26 <LeeF> sandro: this is OK in RDFa, so the issue is only when a OGP doc is expressed in turtle. why can't it be done as a qname type thing with a backslash after the prefix?
Sandro Hawke: this is OK in RDFa, so the issue is only when a OGP doc is expressed in turtle. why can't it be done as a qname type thing with a backslash after the prefix? ←
15:23:42 <sandro> ... me:sandro foaf:likes music:album\:disc
Sandro Hawke: ... me:sandro foaf:likes music:album\:disc ←
15:24:10 <LeeF> gavinc: yes
Gavin Carothers: yes ←
15:24:24 <sandro> sandro: that seems like a one line code change somewhere, in facebooks Turtle serializer.
Sandro Hawke: that seems like a one line code change somewhere, in facebooks Turtle serializer. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:24:33 <LeeF> gavinc: not as big an issue now that we have reserved character escaping
Gavin Carothers: not as big an issue now that we have reserved character escaping ←
15:24:45 <LeeF> ... now it's merely an issue that people will make, rather than an unavoidable error
... now it's merely an issue that people will make, rather than an unavoidable error ←
15:25:02 <LeeF> sandro: easy error for turtle parser to catch and fix / help with
Sandro Hawke: easy error for turtle parser to catch and fix / help with ←
15:25:18 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:26:06 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:26:23 <AndyS> What about a:b:c:d which is currently legal (as "a:b :c :d ." )
Andy Seaborne: What about a:b:c:d which is currently legal (as "a:b :c :d ." ) ←
15:26:28 <LeeF> AndyS: there is a corner case (see above)
Andy Seaborne: there is a corner case (see above) ←
15:26:42 <LeeF> AndyS: this changes turtle if you've been taking advantage of whitespace being optional
Andy Seaborne: this changes turtle if you've been taking advantage of whitespace being optional ←
15:26:56 <ericP> i'm willing to let that case go
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'm willing to let that case go ←
15:26:57 <LeeF> sandro: off with their heads!
Sandro Hawke: off with their heads! ←
15:27:22 <LeeF> AndyS: probably only a potential issue with machine outputted turtle
Andy Seaborne: probably only a potential issue with machine outputted turtle ←
15:27:28 <LeeF> (luddites emerge)
(luddites emerge) ←
15:27:40 <sandro> ceci n'est pas un pipe
Sandro Hawke: ceci n'est pas un pipe ←
15:28:01 <sandro> ceci n'est pas une pipe
Sandro Hawke: ceci n'est pas une pipe ←
15:28:04 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to see if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity
ACTION: Andy to see if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity ←
15:28:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - See if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-160 - See if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04]. ←
15:28:41 <LeeF> ericP: is that action in SPARQL?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: is that action in SPARQL? ←
15:28:46 <LeeF> AndyS: if it works in SPARQL, it will work in Turtle
Andy Seaborne: if it works in SPARQL, it will work in Turtle ←
15:29:20 <LeeF> sandro: what about asking the SPARQL WG?
Sandro Hawke: what about asking the SPARQL WG? ←
15:30:21 <LeeF> LeeF: will the RDF WG's decision be predicated on SPARQL WG's willingness?
Lee Feigenbaum: will the RDF WG's decision be predicated on SPARQL WG's willingness? ←
15:30:26 <LeeF> sandro: would rather not have to make that decision now
Sandro Hawke: would rather not have to make that decision now ←
15:30:27 <LeeF> LeeF: OK
Lee Feigenbaum: OK ←
15:30:28 <sandro> oh no a Lethal Turtle....
Sandro Hawke: oh no a Lethal Turtle.... ←
15:31:24 <LeeF> gavinc: they're already generating legal turtle (with full IRIs)
Gavin Carothers: they're already generating legal turtle (with full IRIs) ←
15:31:32 <LeeF> AndyS: that de-motivates the change, right?
Andy Seaborne: that de-motivates the change, right? ←
15:31:43 <LeeF> sandro: we'd be accommodating everyone out in the world who is writing OGP data
Sandro Hawke: we'd be accommodating everyone out in the world who is working with OGP data ←
15:31:52 <LeeF> gavinc: issue is more complicated than....
Gavin Carothers: issue is more complicated than.... ←
15:31:53 <sandro> s/writing/working with/
15:32:23 <LeeF> davidwood: can ask FB to change, or ask SPARQL WG to work with us to align RDF + RDFa + SPARQL
David Wood: can ask FB to change, or ask SPARQL WG to work with us to align RDF + RDFa + SPARQL ←
15:32:40 <LeeF> ... i think that taking this opportunity to align w3c syntaxes is a useful and valuable thing to do
... i think that taking this opportunity to align w3c syntaxes is a useful and valuable thing to do ←
15:32:48 <LeeF> sandro: we should look at all characters that RDFa allows there, then
Sandro Hawke: we should look at all characters that RDFa allows there, then ←
15:32:59 <LeeF> davidwood: perfect is the enemy of good
David Wood: perfect is the enemy of good ←
15:33:18 <ericP> q+ to say we get to make exactly one step
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say we get to make exactly one step ←
15:33:41 <LeeF> sandro: i'm happy with adding colon to sparql. andy said we should ask FB to change. we'd be asking them to change their predicate names, and there's no way they'll do that
Sandro Hawke: i'm happy with adding colon to sparql. andy said we should ask FB to change. we'd be asking them to change their predicate names, and there's no way they'll do that ←
15:33:50 <LeeF> AndyS: that's not the case - just asking them to output legal turtle
Andy Seaborne: that's not the case - just asking them to output legal turtle ←
15:33:54 <LeeF> sandro: but that's not actually a problem
Sandro Hawke: but that's not actually a problem ←
15:34:03 <LeeF> sandro: they'd have to change predicate names to solve this problem
Sandro Hawke: they'd have to change predicate names to solve this problem ←
15:34:09 <LeeF> AndyS: they can continue to use existing predicate names
Andy Seaborne: they can continue to use existing predicate names ←
15:34:45 <LeeF> ericP: right now, to use existing pred names they can output full URIs - not as pleasant to use - or can output prefix names with backslashes. with changes, they can output prefix names without backslashes. it's a nice practice in general to have local names without characters that need to be escaped
Eric Prud'hommeaux: right now, to use existing pred names they can output full URIs - not as pleasant to use - or can output prefix names with backslashes. with changes, they can output prefix names without backslashes. it's a nice practice in general to have local names without characters that need to be escaped ←
15:35:09 <LeeF> ericP: we only get to make one step here - backslashes are new, so there arent a lot of implementations to stay compatible with.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we only get to make one step here - backslashes are new, so there arent a lot of implementations to stay compatible with. ←
15:35:17 <AndyS> FB can currently either use <a:b:c>, and will be able to use a:b\:c (future turtle) so it's style, not technical.
Andy Seaborne: FB can currently either use <a:b:c>, and will be able to use a:b\:c (future turtle) so it's style, not technical. ←
15:35:59 <AndyS> CURIEs which post-date SPARQL, choose to differ.
Andy Seaborne: CURIEs which post-date SPARQL, choose to differ. ←
15:36:22 <LeeF> ericP: tried to get CURIEs into SPARQL, but couldn't be done because of rest of the grammar. property paths make this worse
Eric Prud'hommeaux: tried to get CURIEs into SPARQL, but couldn't be done because of rest of the grammar. property paths make this worse ←
15:36:32 <LeeF> ... don't think we'll ever have CURIEs fitting in turtle and sparql
... don't think we'll ever have CURIEs fitting in turtle and sparql ←
15:36:32 <sandro> Agreed, AndyS. I think our motivation is just to make FB's vocab easier to work with in Turtle and Sparql (no need for \ )
Sandro Hawke: Agreed, AndyS. I think our motivation is just to make FB's vocab easier to work with in Turtle and Sparql (no need for \ ) ←
15:36:35 <LeeF> AndyS: agree
Andy Seaborne: agree ←
15:36:42 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:36:50 <ericP> ack me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me ←
15:36:50 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say we get to make exactly one step
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to say we get to make exactly one step ←
15:36:55 <davidwood> ack ericP
David Wood: ack ericP ←
15:37:08 <LeeF> davidwood: gavin, will you write up this issue?
David Wood: gavin, will you write up this issue? ←
15:37:11 <LeeF> gavinc: ayup
Gavin Carothers: ayup ←
15:37:21 <LeeF> sandro: can we just make a decision?
Sandro Hawke: can we just make a decision? ←
15:38:39 <sandro> PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names.
PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names. ←
15:38:54 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:38:56 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:38:59 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:39:00 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:39:01 <pchampin> +1
15:39:01 <yvesr> +0
Yves Raimond: +0 ←
15:39:04 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:39:05 <AndyS> abstain
Andy Seaborne: abstain ←
15:39:06 <LeeF> 0 (-1 if there is any grammar ambiguity)
0 (-1 if there is any grammar ambiguity) ←
15:39:10 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:39:27 <sandro> (assuming no grammar ambiguity of course)
Sandro Hawke: (assuming no grammar ambiguity of course) ←
15:39:32 <Souri> 0
Souripriya Das: 0 ←
15:39:47 <sandro> (other than whitespace. a:b:c:d )
Sandro Hawke: (other than whitespace. a:b:c:d ) ←
15:39:57 <NickH> +1
Nicholas Humfrey: +1 ←
15:40:10 <LeeF> ericP: that backwards incompatibility is something that I'm ok with
Eric Prud'hommeaux: that backwards incompatibility is something that I'm ok with ←
15:40:54 <sandro> PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names. We understand this will change how turtle lines like a:b:c:d are parsed; we don't need to support documents written like that.
PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names. We understand this will change how turtle lines like a:b:c:d are parsed; we don't need to support documents written like that. ←
15:41:04 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:41:06 <LeeF> (this seems like solving a problem that probably doesn't exist, but it may someday make it easier for me to write turtle, so... *shrug*. The non-WG-member implementers may howl.)
(this seems like solving a problem that probably doesn't exist, but it may someday make it easier for me to write turtle, so... *shrug*. The non-WG-member implementers may howl.) ←
15:41:21 <AndyS> abstain (this is not a problem)
Andy Seaborne: abstain LeeF: (this is not a problem) ←
15:41:21 <LeeF> s/(this/LeeF: (this/
15:41:37 <LeeF> abstain (this is not a problem)
abstain (this is not a problem) ←
15:42:24 <sandro> sandro: It's not nearly as big a problem as it sounded at the begging of this problem.
Sandro Hawke: It's not nearly as big a problem as it sounded at the begging of this problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:43:22 <LeeF> AndyS: there's not a technical problem, we're asking implementers and others to do something
Andy Seaborne: there's not a technical problem, we're asking implementers and others to do something ←
15:43:30 <LeeF> sandro: agree that it's a style issue at this point
Sandro Hawke: agree that it's a style issue at this point ←
15:43:46 <LeeF> davidwood: we could solve this just by acknowledging it's not a problem, closing the issue, etc.
David Wood: we could solve this just by acknowledging it's not a problem, closing the issue, etc. ←
15:43:55 <LeeF> sandro: the people who would be unhappy are those who would have to write lots of backslashes
Sandro Hawke: the people who would be unhappy are those who would have to write lots of backslashes ←
15:44:43 <AndyS> # is also a contentious character for the same reasons.
Andy Seaborne: # is also a contentious character for the same reasons. ←
15:45:18 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:45:28 <LeeF> davidwood: I propose that we close ACTION-152, take no action, and open no new issue
David Wood: I propose that we close ACTION-152, take no action, and open no new issue ←
15:45:35 <LeeF> sandro: I won't object, but I don't think this is a good idea
Sandro Hawke: I won't object, but I don't think this is a good idea ←
15:45:46 <sandro> -0 I think we'll be very sad writing a lot of backslashes for a lot of years
Sandro Hawke: -0 I think we'll be very sad writing a lot of backslashes for a lot of years ←
15:46:14 <ericP> i note that sandro and i differ only in the degree to which we are concearned about facebook users. we both agree that a change is the best choice
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i note that sandro and i differ only in the degree to which we are concearned about facebook users. we both agree that a change is the best choice ←
15:46:17 <sandro> but whatever. I tend to be perfectionist about things like that.
Sandro Hawke: but whatever. I tend to be perfectionist about things like that. ←
15:46:23 <PatH> backslashes have rights too!
Patrick Hayes: backslashes have rights too! ←
15:46:24 <gavinc> -0 I think we'll be writing parsers that accept invalid Turtle in a year or two
Gavin Carothers: -0 I think we'll be writing parsers that accept invalid Turtle in a year or two ←
15:46:38 <sandro> Oh, YES gavin.
Sandro Hawke: Oh, YES gavin. ←
15:46:56 <PatH> zakim, mute me
Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me ←
15:46:56 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted ←
15:47:24 <AndyS> If we do this, then do it properly : not rush a proposal through ATM. Ask FB + check the grammars.
Andy Seaborne: If we do this, then do it properly : not rush a proposal through ATM. Ask FB + check the grammars. ←
15:47:43 <PatH> +1 Andy
Patrick Hayes: +1 Andy ←
15:48:00 <LeeF> gavinc: other issue: turtle does not specify how errors are handled
Gavin Carothers: other issue: turtle does not specify how errors are handled ←
15:48:09 <LeeF> ... so it isn't clear to me that if i parsed this that i would not be conforming
... so it isn't clear to me that if i parsed this that i would not be conforming ←
15:48:24 <LeeF> ericP: we have a language, and that's not the language
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we have a language, and that's not the language ←
15:48:32 <LeeF> gavinc: but conformance is expressed in terms of positive parsing
Gavin Carothers: but conformance is expressed in terms of positive parsing ←
15:48:46 <Guus> I suggest that editors make a proposal with "feature at risk" note, and ask explicit feedback from parties concerned
Guus Schreiber: I suggest that editors make a proposal with "feature at risk" note, and ask explicit feedback from parties concerned ←
15:49:13 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:49:13 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:49:33 <PatH> +1 Guus. Lets be strictly proper. diplomacy and all.
Patrick Hayes: +1 Guus. Lets be strictly proper. diplomacy and all. ←
15:50:09 <gavinc> +1 Guus!
Gavin Carothers: +1 Guus! ←
15:50:19 <LeeF> davidwood: let's accept guus's suggestion
David Wood: let's accept guus's suggestion ←
15:50:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:50:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:50:50 <LeeF> davidwood: andy, will you ask SPARQL WG about this?
David Wood: andy, will you ask SPARQL WG about this? ←
15:50:52 <LeeF> AndyS: ok
Andy Seaborne: ok ←
15:50:56 <LeeF> davidwood: what about asking FB?
David Wood: what about asking FB? ←
15:50:59 <LeeF> sandro: there's nothing to ask FB!
Sandro Hawke: there's nothing to ask FB! ←
15:51:17 <PatH> not ask, but inform facebook. diplomacy.
Patrick Hayes: not ask, but inform facebook. diplomacy. ←
15:51:25 <MacTed> FB is now generating valid Turtle. would whatever change we're contemplating *break* that? if not, nothing to ask/inform about...
Ted Thibodeau: FB is now generating valid Turtle. would whatever change we're contemplating *break* that? if not, nothing to ask/inform about... ←
15:51:40 <ericP> /invite mr_facebook #rdf-wg
Eric Prud'hommeaux: /invite mr_facebook #rdf-wg ←
15:52:17 <ericP> +1 to sandro's point
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to sandro's point ←
15:52:22 <yvesr> is there any example of that in the wild?
Yves Raimond: is there any example of that in the wild? ←
15:52:34 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:52:35 <PatH> like for example maybe fbk are planning a change....
Patrick Hayes: like for example maybe fbk are planning a change.... ←
15:52:40 <ericP> noting that fb has some influece on how people expect to use their data
Eric Prud'hommeaux: noting that fb has some influece on how people expect to use their data ←
15:52:42 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:52:45 <yvesr> (of people writing broken Turtle following Facebook's OGP?)
Yves Raimond: (of people writing broken Turtle following Facebook's OGP?) ←
15:53:20 <sandro> sandro: So the question for facebook is whether they would prefer people to have to use backslashes in working with their data in turtle and SPARQL.
Sandro Hawke: So the question for facebook is whether they would prefer people to have to use backslashes in working with their data in turtle and SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:53:21 <PatH> zakim, unmute me
Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me ←
15:53:21 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted ←
15:54:39 <PatH> it does no actual harm to just *talk* to North Korea
Patrick Hayes: it does no actual harm to just *talk* to North Korea ←
15:54:47 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:54:54 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:55:13 <LeeF> AndyS: if we do this, I think # will be the next character to come up - to handle fragments
Andy Seaborne: if we do this, I think # will be the next character to come up - to handle fragments ←
15:56:14 <LeeF> (discussion of how that would conflict with comments)
(discussion of how that would conflict with comments) ←
15:56:45 <ericP> what about non-breaking zero-width trailing combining character whitespace?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: what about non-breaking zero-width trailing combining character whitespace? ←
15:57:12 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012
ACTION: Andy to ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012 ←
15:57:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-161 - Ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04]. ←
15:57:45 <sandro> So -- the big motive for allowing colons in local names is because people will be writing parsers to accept them ANYWAY, since people will be writing them anyway.
Sandro Hawke: So -- the big motive for allowing colons in local names is because people will be writing parsers to accept them ANYWAY, since people will be writing them anyway. ←
15:57:46 <LeeF> davidwood: now for an easy topic
David Wood: now for an easy topic ←
15:58:19 <PatH> zakim, mute me
Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me ←
15:58:27 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:58:34 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:58:37 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted ←
15:58:47 <PatH> crackle, buzz, beep, rattle, smack
Patrick Hayes: crackle, buzz, beep, rattle, smack ←
15:59:13 <Guus> let's pls finish the Turtle discussion, we have used enough time on Named Graphs to wait another week
Guus Schreiber: let's pls finish the Turtle discussion, we have used enough time on Named Graphs to wait another week ←
15:59:26 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:59:30 <AndyS> sandro - reasonable claim - do we have evidence (seems likely but you said "will be" which is absolute)
Andy Seaborne: sandro - reasonable claim - do we have evidence (seems likely but you said "will be" which is absolute) ←
15:59:57 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
16:00:15 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#n-triples-compatibility
Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#n-triples-compatibility ←
16:01:02 <LeeF> gavin: should a backwards incompatible escape sequence be an issue?
Gavin Carothers: should a backwards incompatible escape sequence be an issue? ←
16:01:08 <LeeF> davidwood: won't other changes break b.c.?
David Wood: won't other changes break b.c.? ←
16:01:10 <LeeF> gavinc: yes
Gavin Carothers: yes ←
16:01:15 <LeeF> davidwood: why is this a special issue?
David Wood: why is this a special issue? ←
16:01:18 <sandro> AndyS, I have no evidence people will forget the backslashes, but I think I heard some parser writers on the call saying they expected they'd allow colons without backslashes, because they thought users would forget the backslashes.
Sandro Hawke: AndyS, I have no evidence people will forget the backslashes, but I think I heard some parser writers on the call saying they expected they'd allow colons without backslashes, because they thought users would forget the backslashes. ←
16:01:19 <LeeF> gavinc: others are just with encoding
Gavin Carothers: others are just with encoding ←
16:02:04 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:02:08 <LeeF> AndyS: i've never seen any data with \b \f in turtle, so...
Andy Seaborne: i've never seen any data with \b \f in turtle, so... ←
16:02:32 <LeeF> davidwood: there could be old data around with \b or \f
David Wood: there could be old data around with \b or \f ←
16:02:37 <LeeF> AndyS: would change from illegal to legal
Andy Seaborne: would change from illegal to legal ←
16:02:41 <LeeF> davidwood: non issue for me
David Wood: non issue for me ←
16:02:42 <LeeF> gavinc: me too
Gavin Carothers: me too. Zhe brought it up ←
16:02:46 <PatH> \b***** this for a topic of conversation.
Patrick Hayes: \b***** this for a topic of conversation. ←
16:03:00 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
16:03:15 <LeeF> AndyS: i haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than a question
Andy Seaborne: i haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than a question ←
16:03:20 <davidwood> Zhe brought this up to Gavin off list. Gavin sent it to the list.
David Wood: Zhe brought this up to Gavin off list. Gavin sent it to the list. ←
16:03:24 <LeeF> gavinc: offlist indications to the contrary
Gavin Carothers: offlist indications to the contrary ←
16:03:39 <Guus> I suggest this is editorial discretion of the editors, seems small enough, but pls make an explicit note in the document
Guus Schreiber: I suggest this is editorial discretion of the editors, seems small enough, but pls make an explicit note in the document ←
16:03:39 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:03:42 <LeeF> s/gavinc: me too/gavinc: me too. Zhe brought it up
16:03:51 <LeeF> davidwood: let's leave this to the editors and move on
David Wood: let's leave this to the editors and move on ←
16:03:56 <LeeF> ISSUE-4?
16:03:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open ←
16:03:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4 ←
16:04:05 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
16:04:58 <LeeF> AndyS: people use n-triples, it's faster for loading
Andy Seaborne: people use n-triples, it's faster for loading ←
16:05:01 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:05:03 <cgreer> +1
Charles Greer: +1 ←
16:05:04 <LeeF> davidwood: should we resolve issue-4 and keep n-triples?
David Wood: should we resolve ISSUE-4 and keep n-triples? ←
16:05:07 <LeeF> AndyS: yes
Andy Seaborne: yes ←
16:05:09 <LeeF> +1
+1 ←
16:05:20 <Souri> +1 to not deprecating N-Triples
Souripriya Das: +1 to not deprecating N-Triples ←
16:05:26 <LeeF> ivan: what about discussion with Oracle?
Ivan Herman: what about discussion with Oracle? ←
16:05:32 <LeeF> davidwood: Oracle wants to keep n-triples
David Wood: Oracle wants to keep n-triples ←
16:05:44 <ivan> 1
Ivan Herman: 1 ←
16:05:46 <LeeF> (excellentuse of the word "apoplectic")
(excellentuse of the word "apoplectic") ←
16:06:22 <PatH> +1 to closing issue 4.
Patrick Hayes: +1 to closing ISSUE-4. ←
16:06:36 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:06:41 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
16:06:42 <Souri> +1 to closing it with "not deprecating N-Triples"
Souripriya Das: +1 to closing it with "not deprecating N-Triples" ←
16:06:58 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-4, keeping N-triples as not deprecated
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-4, keeping N-triples as not deprecated ←
16:07:10 <LeeF> close ISSUE-4
16:07:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? closed ←
16:07:25 <LeeF> davidwood: all done with turtle!
David Wood: all done with turtle! ←
16:07:32 <LeeF> davidwood: no time for named graph semantivcs
David Wood: no time for named graph semantivcs ←
16:07:48 <LeeF> davidwood: let's put solution design .1 on the queue for next week
David Wood: let's put solution design .1 on the queue for next week ←
16:07:54 <LeeF> davidwood: AOB?
David Wood: AOB? ←
16:07:58 <LeeF> Guus: how about clarifying questions?
Guus Schreiber: how about clarifying questions? ←
16:08:15 <PatH> zakim, unmute me
Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me ←
16:08:15 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted ←
16:08:16 <LeeF> Guus: the rdf:Graph construct is not used in a use case. is that by accident?
Guus Schreiber: the rdf:Graph construct is not used in a use case. is that by accident? ←
16:08:21 <PatH> +q
Patrick Hayes: +q ←
16:08:29 <LeeF> ... they used GraphStateContainer construct
... they used GraphStateContainer construct ←
16:08:45 <LeeF> sandro: i assume he'd have to use it for the inference case (separation of inference and one of the two ways you'd do endorsement)
Sandro Hawke: i assume he'd have to use it for the inference case (separation of inference and one of the two ways you'd do endorsement) ←
16:10:09 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:10:31 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:10:31 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
16:10:37 <LeeF> Guus: from use cases, we want to see that if you fetch something at a particular time, there's no guarantee that it will be there at a future time
Guus Schreiber: from use cases, we want to see that if you fetch something at a particular time, there's no guarantee that it will be there at a future time ←
16:11:04 <LeeF> sandro: quick strawpoll here
Sandro Hawke: quick strawpoll here ←
16:11:11 <LeeF> ... i intentionally left g-boxes out of 6.1 design
... i intentionally left g-boxes out of 6.1 design ←
16:11:17 <LeeF> ... because they seem like an extension point
... because they seem like an extension point ←
16:11:22 <LeeF> ... should i put them in properly?
... should i put them in properly? ←
16:11:29 <LeeF> PatH: NO.
Patrick Hayes: NO. ←
16:11:36 <LeeF> ... let's get it clear without the g-boxes
... let's get it clear without the g-boxes ←
16:11:38 <LeeF> sandro: i agree
Sandro Hawke: i agree ←
16:12:27 <LeeF> PatH: is the association, the rdf:graph connection, holds between a resource and a graph?
Patrick Hayes: is the association, the rdf:graph connection, holds between a resource and a graph? ←
16:12:28 <LeeF> sandro: yes
Sandro Hawke: yes ←
16:12:39 <LeeF> PatH: is that intended to extend beyond the document? is it asserted by the document?
Patrick Hayes: is that intended to extend beyond the document? is it asserted by the document? ←
16:12:41 <LeeF> sandro: yes
Sandro Hawke: yes ←
16:12:47 <LeeF> PatH: consider 2 docs with no default graph.
Patrick Hayes: consider 2 docs with no default graph. ←
16:12:50 <LeeF> u1 { a b c}
u1 { a b c} ←
16:12:51 <LeeF> and
and ←
16:12:54 <LeeF> u1 { d e f}
u1 { d e f} ←
16:13:08 <LeeF> do those conclude: u1 {a b c . d e f } ?
do those conclude: u1 {a b c . d e f } ? ←
16:13:15 <LeeF> sandro: no, those are logically inconsistent
Sandro Hawke: no, those are logically inconsistent ←
16:13:34 <LeeF> PatH: i think there is something that needs to be fixed then
Patrick Hayes: i think there is something that needs to be fixed then ←
16:16:47 <LeeF> PatH: above case says it's not ok to use same label in mutiple documents -- in ??? semantics, it's perfectly fine and entails the merge
Patrick Hayes: above case says it's not ok to use same label in mutiple documents -- in ??? semantics, it's perfectly fine and entails the merge ←
16:17:04 <LeeF> sandro: if you're going to do that you need to be explicit about that fact
Sandro Hawke: if you're going to do that you need to be explicit about that fact ←
16:17:18 <ericP> +1 to PatH
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to PatH ←
16:17:19 <LeeF> PatH: a lot of our discussion turns on people having different intuitions about this point
Patrick Hayes: a lot of our discussion turns on people having different intuitions about this point ←
16:17:29 <AndyS> {...} is not automatically a graph, it can be part of a graph but all graph must be in same doc.
Andy Seaborne: {...} is not automatically a graph, it can be part of a graph but all graph must be in same doc. ←
16:17:43 <LeeF> davidwood: more next week
David Wood: more next week ←
16:17:48 <sandro> ( "this point" being what happens when you have u1 { a b c} in one document and u1 { d e f} in another.
Sandro Hawke: ( "this point" being what happens when you have u1 { a b c} in one document and u1 { d e f} in another. ←
16:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aaaa ←
16:17:50 <LeeF> davidwood: Adjourned.
David Wood: Adjourned. ←
16:17:52 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:17:54 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:17:56 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:17:57 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:17:58 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:17:59 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:18:01 <Zakim> -cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer ←
16:18:02 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber ←
16:18:02 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:18:04 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:18:05 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:18:14 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:18:17 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:18:20 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:18:29 <LeeF> c'mon common scribe, get moving
c'mon common scribe, get moving ←
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