15:53:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-rdf-wg-irc ←
15:53:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:53:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
15:53:35 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:53:35 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2012
15:54:05 <gavinc> Zakim, this is 73394
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, this is 73394 ←
15:54:05 <Zakim> ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:54:18 <gavinc> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:54:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P3, +1.707.861.aaaa ←
15:54:32 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:54:32 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
15:56:21 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:56:21 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:57:08 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:57:08 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:57:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:59:18 <Zakim> +pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←
16:00:36 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:00:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:00:50 <MacTed> Zakim, mute m
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute m ←
16:00:51 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
16:00:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:00:59 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.996.aabb ←
16:01:16 <Arnaud> zakim, aabb is me
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, aabb is me ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud; got it ←
16:01:33 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
16:02:02 <Zakim> +Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus ←
16:02:52 <Zakim> + +1.415.586.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.586.aacc ←
16:02:53 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.318.aadd ←
16:02:54 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
16:03:04 <cgreer> zakim,aadd is me
Charles Greer: zakim,aadd is me ←
16:03:04 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer; got it ←
16:04:18 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
16:04:22 <AndyS> zakim, ??P22 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P22 is me ←
16:04:22 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
16:04:36 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aaee ←
16:04:55 <AlexHall> zakim, aaee is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aaee is me ←
16:04:55 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
16:05:15 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
16:05:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, Ivan, pfps, MacTed (muted), Arnaud (muted), sandro, Guus, cgreer, JeremyCarroll (muted), pchampin, AndyS, AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, Ivan, pfps, MacTed (muted), Arnaud (muted), sandro, Guus, cgreer, JeremyCarroll (muted), pchampin, AndyS, AlexHall ←
16:05:15 <zwu2> zakim, code?
16:05:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
16:05:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see FabGandon, zwu2, AlexHall, AZ, pchampin, cgreer, Guus, JeremyCarroll, Arnaud, pfps, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, SteveH, AndyS1, ivan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see FabGandon, zwu2, AlexHall, AZ, pchampin, cgreer, Guus, JeremyCarroll, Arnaud, pfps, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, SteveH, AndyS1, ivan, ←
16:05:19 <Zakim> ... trackbot, davidwood, NickH, mdmdm, yvesr, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot, davidwood, NickH, mdmdm, yvesr, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP ←
16:05:52 <pchampin> ok
16:06:07 <Zakim> +davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood ←
16:06:08 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aaff ←
16:06:16 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me ←
16:06:16 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
16:06:20 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
16:06:20 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted ←
16:06:39 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Sophia] ←
16:06:50 <FabGandon> Zakim, Sophia is me.
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, Sophia is me. ←
16:06:50 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it ←
16:07:24 <pchampin> topic: admin
16:07:35 <pchampin> subtopic: last week's minute approval
16:07:42 <pchampin> guus: any objection?
Guus Schreiber: any objection? [ Scribe Assist by Pierre-Antoine Champin ] ←
16:07:44 <davidwood> scribenick: pchampin
(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)
16:07:56 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-02-29
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-02-29 ←
16:08:05 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg ←
16:08:06 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
16:08:25 <Zakim> + +1.646.434.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.434.aahh ←
16:08:33 <pchampin> guus: no objection, approved
Guus Schreiber: no objection, approved ←
16:09:03 <AZ> zakim, aahh is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aahh is me ←
16:09:03 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
16:09:04 <pchampin> subtopic: open action review
16:09:54 <pchampin> antoine: re ACTION-149, I sent an email about it
Antoine Zimmermann: re ACTION-149, I sent an email about it ←
16:10:16 <pchampin> guus: marking it as done
Guus Schreiber: marking it as done ←
16:10:33 <pchampin> ... any progress to report on other actions?
... any progress to report on other actions? ←
16:10:44 <pchampin> sandro: not on mine, sorry
Sandro Hawke: not on mine, sorry ←
16:10:53 <FabGandon> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/index.html#
Fabien Gandon: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/index.html# ←
16:11:06 <AZ> email of my action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0038.html
Antoine Zimmermann: email of my action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0038.html ←
16:11:11 <pchampin> fabien: the URI above is the current version of the RDF/XML spec
Fabien Gandon: the URI above is the current version of the RDF/XML spec ←
16:11:27 <pchampin> ... I ported it to respec
... I ported it to respec ←
16:11:37 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
16:12:19 <pchampin> ... how can I make sure I don't forget any modification that ought to be done?
... how can I make sure I don't forget any modification that ought to be done? ←
16:12:50 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-syntax-grammar errata
Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-syntax-grammar errata ←
16:13:28 <pchampin> ivan: above is the URL of an errata document I collected over the years
Ivan Herman: above is the URL of an errata document I collected over the years ←
16:13:59 <pchampin> guus: this is also referred by ISSUE-6
Guus Schreiber: this is also referred by ISSUE-6 ←
16:14:10 <pchampin> subtopic: light-saving time
16:14:28 <pchampin> guus: for the following two weeks, the telecons will be one hour sooner in Europe,
Guus Schreiber: for the following two weeks, the telecons will be one hour sooner in Europe, ←
16:14:47 <pchampin> ... due to earlier light-saving time in the US
... due to earlier light-saving time in the US ←
16:15:34 <pchampin> subtopic: FTF3
16:15:42 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/ 29 October - 2 November 2012 Lyon, France
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/ 29 October - 2 November 2012 Lyon, France ←
16:16:10 <gavinc> Oh lovely, over halloweenen again?
Gavin Carothers: Oh lovely, over halloweenen again? ←
16:16:22 <davidwood> ISWC in Boston, 11-15 Nov.
David Wood: ISWC in Boston, 11-15 Nov. ←
16:16:28 <sandro> http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/ November 11-15 Boston, USA
Sandro Hawke: http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/ November 11-15 Boston, USA ←
16:16:37 <pchampin> ivan: TPAC begins 2 weeks earlier than ISWC, should not clash
Ivan Herman: TPAC begins 2 weeks earlier than ISWC, should not clash ←
16:16:47 <gavinc> Geee, another F2F in Europe?
Gavin Carothers: Geee, another F2F in Europe? ←
16:17:05 <davidwood> You didn't need to go last time :)
David Wood: You didn't need to go last time :) ←
16:17:10 <pchampin> guus: should we organise FTF3 during TPAC?
Guus Schreiber: should we organise FTF3 during TPAC? ←
16:17:21 <AndyS> Last time it was officially in Boston.
Andy Seaborne: Last time it was officially in Boston. ←
16:17:33 <pchampin> sandro: this is usually a good thing to have a FTF during TPAC
Sandro Hawke: this is usually a good thing to have a FTF during TPAC ←
16:17:40 <AndyS> ... just larger in London :-)
Andy Seaborne: ... just larger in London :-) ←
16:17:52 <pchampin> ivan: we could convince the Provenance WG to meet with us, which would also be a good thing
Ivan Herman: we could convince the Provenance WG to meet with us, which would also be a good thing ←
16:19:18 <pchampin> david: are we sure we do not want to meet before november?
David Wood: are we sure we do not want to meet before november? ←
16:20:53 <pchampin> ... I would propose to have a task-force meeting in the meantime in Boston to make a decision about the Graph question
... I would propose to have a task-force meeting in the meantime in Boston to make a decision about the Graph question ←
16:21:10 <pchampin> ivan: would exclude a lot of people, though, as finding a budget for a TF meeting would be harder
Ivan Herman: would exclude a lot of people, though, as finding a budget for a TF meeting would be harder ←
16:21:52 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is talking? ←
16:22:03 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (10%), Guus (24%), davidwood (51%), Ivan (18%)
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (10%), Guus (24%), davidwood (51%), Ivan (18%) ←
16:22:04 <pchampin> david: even a few people can make good progress
David Wood: even a few people can make good progress ←
16:22:09 <pchampin> ... and then make a proposal to the WG
... and then make a proposal to the WG ←
16:23:18 <MacTed> I'm sitting in noisy construction environment today ... but I agree with David's informal task force idea
Ted Thibodeau: I'm sitting in noisy construction environment today ... but I agree with David's informal task force idea ←
16:23:37 <MacTed> the whiteboard scribbling after adjournment was valuable time
Ted Thibodeau: the whiteboard scribbling after adjournment was valuable time ←
16:23:43 <gavinc> I agree with informal/formal task force idea
Gavin Carothers: I agree with informal/formal task force idea ←
16:24:34 <davidwood> WWW2012 http://www2012.wwwconference.org/ 16-20 April in Lyon
David Wood: WWW2012 http://www2012.wwwconference.org/ 16-20 April in Lyon ←
16:25:17 <pchampin> guus: the current proposition is to hold FTF3 at TPAC, unless someone objects in the following week
Guus Schreiber: the current proposition is to hold FTF3 at TPAC, unless someone objects in the following week ←
16:25:23 <AndyS> Who wants to be in the task force?
Andy Seaborne: Who wants to be in the task force? ←
16:25:52 <pchampin> arnaud: what happened to the proposal to have FTF3 in Sophia after WWW?
Arnaud Le Hors: what happened to the proposal to have FTF3 in Sophia after WWW? ←
16:25:58 <pchampin> guus: it seems to be too early
Guus Schreiber: it seems to be too early ←
16:26:06 <ericP> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes ←
16:26:08 <ericP> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapesB
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapesB ←
16:26:11 <pchampin> topic: Tutle
16:26:33 <pchampin> eric: I wrote two versions (URIs above)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I wrote two versions (URIs above) ←
16:27:05 <pchampin> ... the first one is what was there before
... the first one is what was there before ←
16:27:27 <pchampin> ... the second one defines different kind of escape sequences, then specifies which is usable where
... the second one defines different kind of escape sequences, then specifies which is usable where ←
16:27:52 <pchampin> ... the second answers to Andy's proposal, but I prefer the first one
... the second answers to Andy's proposal, but I prefer the first one ←
16:27:59 <pchampin> andy: I can live with the first one
Andy Seaborne: I can live with the first one ←
16:28:03 <MacTed> I actually find B much clearer...
Ted Thibodeau: I actually find B much clearer... ←
16:28:08 <sandro> I like B too
Sandro Hawke: I like B too ←
16:28:08 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
16:29:01 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:29:19 <Guus> ack ivan
Guus Schreiber: ack ivan ←
16:29:24 <MacTed> +1 ivan & sandro
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ivan & sandro ←
16:29:36 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:29:36 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
16:29:54 <pchampin> sandro: I prefer the 2nd one; with the first one, I lose track
Sandro Hawke: I prefer the 2nd one; with the first one, I lose track ←
16:30:00 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:30:00 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:30:13 <pchampin> ivan: agree with sandro
Ivan Herman: agree with sandro ←
16:30:19 <pchampin> MacTed: agree with sandro
Ted Thibodeau: agree with sandro ←
16:30:34 <pchampin> guus: eric, would you be happy with the 2nd option?
Guus Schreiber: eric, would you be happy with the 2nd option? ←
16:30:36 <pchampin> eric: yes
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes ←
16:31:48 <ivan> PROPOSED: take the 'B' version to solve issue-67
PROPOSED: take the 'B' version to solve ISSUE-67 ←
16:31:50 <Guus> ISSUE 67 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/67
Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-67 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/67 ←
16:31:58 <gavinc> ISSUE-74?
16:31:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open ←
16:31:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74 ←
16:32:53 <pchampin> gavin: I think that this covers ISSUE-74 as well (see above)
Gavin Carothers: I think that this covers ISSUE-74 as well (see above) ←
16:32:56 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:33:04 <pchampin> ivan: let's first solve ISSUE-67
Ivan Herman: let's first solve ISSUE-67 ←
16:33:09 <pchampin> pchampin: +1
16:33:15 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:33:21 <ivan> RESOLVED: take the 'B' version to solve issue-67
RESOLVED: take the 'B' version to solve ISSUE-67 ←
16:33:23 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
16:33:25 <zwu2> +1
16:33:25 <yvesr> +1
Yves Raimond: +1 ←
16:34:46 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3 ←
16:35:58 <pchampin> guus: as we just solved ISSUE-67, there are 3 issues left regarding Turtle: ISSUE-4, ISSUE-73, ISSUE-74
Guus Schreiber: as we just solved ISSUE-67, there are 3 issues left regarding Turtle: ISSUE-4, ISSUE-73, ISSUE-74 ←
16:36:08 <davidwood> q+ to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft
David Wood: q+ to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft ←
16:36:28 <pchampin> ISSUE-4?
16:36:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open ←
16:36:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4 ←
16:37:23 <pchampin> gavin: we considered defining N-Triples inside the Turtle document, but this was never resolved
Gavin Carothers: we considered defining N-Triples inside the Turtle document, but this was never resolved ←
16:37:56 <pchampin> ... see now section 11 in the Turtle document
... see now section 11 in the Turtle document ←
16:38:09 <pchampin> david: I think there is a conflation of what issue 4 means
David Wood: I think there is a conflation of what ISSUE-4 means ←
16:38:21 <pchampin> ... deprecating is not the same as folding it in the Turtle document
... deprecating is not the same as folding it in the Turtle document ←
16:38:38 <zwu2> N-TRIPLES are used in production, it is not a good idea to deprecate it
Zhe Wu: N-TRIPLES are used in production, it is not a good idea to deprecate it ←
16:38:38 <pchampin> ... those are two different questions
... those are two different questions ←
16:38:43 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:38:47 <ivan> ack davidwood
Ivan Herman: ack davidwood ←
16:38:48 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft
Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, you wanted to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft ←
16:39:03 <pchampin> ... my answers would be "no" to deprecation, and "yes" to including it
... my answers would be "no" to deprecation, and "yes" to including it ←
16:39:09 <AndyS> (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.
Andy Seaborne: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care. ←
16:40:13 <zwu2> q+
16:40:18 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
16:40:29 <Souri> Same as Andy: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.
Souripriya Das: Same as Andy: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care. ←
16:41:26 <pchampin> guus: wasn't there an objection from Oracle about merging N-Triple with Turtle, regarding UTF-8?
Guus Schreiber: wasn't there an objection from Oracle about merging N-Triple with Turtle, regarding UTF-8? ←
16:41:33 <pchampin> david: I think we had a resolution about it
David Wood: I think we had a resolution about it ←
16:41:51 <pchampin> ... btw, it would be good to have a place containing all the resolutions of the group
... btw, it would be good to have a place containing all the resolutions of the group ←
16:41:57 <pchampin> q+
q+ ←
16:42:08 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me
16:42:08 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should no longer be muted ←
16:42:44 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31 ←
16:42:54 <davidwood> Resolutions
David Wood: Resolutions ←
16:42:54 <davidwood> 1. Create a UTF version of ntriples in the Turtle REC, while making clear that the ASCII version of ntriples is still acceptable for use. ASCII ntriples would continue to live in the test cases document. File extensions and media types should be in conformance to the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Aug/0170.html http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31#resolution_1
David Wood: 1. Create a UTF version of ntriples in the Turtle REC, while making clear that the ASCII version of ntriples is still acceptable for use. ASCII ntriples would continue to live in the test cases document. File extensions and media types should be in conformance to the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Aug/0170.html http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31#resolution_1 ←
16:44:34 <AndyS> Names : N-triples, N-triples-ascii (on the wire:: application/n-triples;charset=ascii)
Andy Seaborne: Names : N-triples, N-triples-ascii (on the wire:: application/n-triples;charset=ascii) ←
16:44:58 <pchampin> gavin: but then, what will we call N-Triples?
Gavin Carothers: but then, what will we call N-Triples? ←
16:45:02 <sandro> +1 Andy
Sandro Hawke: +1 Andy ←
16:45:09 <JeremyCarroll> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
16:45:17 <zwu2> q-
16:45:24 <pchampin> ... this is why the Turtle specs currently says "N prime" (which is a terrible name=
... this is why the Turtle specs currently says "N prime" (which is a terrible name) ←
16:45:28 <pchampin> s/name=/name)/
16:45:31 <pchampin> q-
q- ←
16:45:33 <sandro> Same-syntax-different-charset ?
Sandro Hawke: Same-syntax-different-charset ? ←
16:46:36 <pchampin> jeremy: there is nothing wrong in calling them both N-Triples, as long as content-negociation correctly sorts it out
Jeremy Carroll: there is nothing wrong in calling them both N-Triples, as long as content-negociation correctly sorts it out ←
16:46:36 <davidwood> Interesting point, JeremyCarroll
David Wood: Interesting point, JeremyCarroll ←
16:46:39 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:46:40 <pchampin> q+
q+ ←
16:46:47 <ivan> ack JeremyCarroll
Ivan Herman: ack JeremyCarroll ←
16:46:51 <AndyS> +1 to Jeremy
Andy Seaborne: +1 to Jeremy ←
16:46:56 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
16:48:00 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
16:48:03 <pchampin> ivan: we are forced to have chaset=utf-8 in the Turtle-UTF8 media type, because the default encoding for text/* media types is ASCII
Ivan Herman: we are forced to have chaset=utf-8 in the Turtle-UTF8 media type, because the default encoding for text/* media types is ASCII ←
16:48:11 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
16:48:13 <Guus> ack ivan
Guus Schreiber: ack ivan ←
16:48:22 <Guus> ack pchampin
Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin ←
16:49:09 <Guus> ack AndyS
Guus Schreiber: ack AndyS ←
16:49:12 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
16:49:52 <gavinc> Current document, text/turtle, text/ntriples+turtle
Gavin Carothers: Current document, text/turtle, text/ntriples+turtle ←
16:49:59 <pchampin> pchampin: agree with Jeremy and Ivan; anyway, the media-types have to be different (as the media-type for N-triples-ascii is text/plain, historically)
Pierre-Antoine Champin: agree with Jeremy and Ivan; anyway, the media-types have to be different (as the media-type for N-triples-ascii is text/plain, historically) ←
16:50:21 <pchampin> andy: N-triples is hardly human readable, anyway
Andy Seaborne: N-triples is hardly human readable, anyway ←
16:51:52 <gavinc> PREPOSAL N-Triple has content type 'application/ntriples' and uses the content type paramater charset with allowed values of utf-8 or ascii
Gavin Carothers: PROPOSAL N-Triple has content type 'application/ntriples' and uses the content type parameter charset with allowed values of utf-8 or ascii ←
16:52:11 <JeremyCarroll> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
16:52:18 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
16:52:19 <JeremyCarroll> s/PREPOSAL/PROPOSAL/
16:52:22 <JeremyCarroll> :)
Jeremy Carroll: :) ←
16:52:57 <gavinc> s/paramater/parameter
16:53:23 <davidwood> s/paramater/parameter/
16:53:26 <pchampin> sandro: you can't say that n-triple is so unreadable that it does not belong to the text/* hierarchy
Sandro Hawke: you can't say that n-triple is so unreadable that it does not belong to the text/* hierarchy ←
16:53:57 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:54:13 <pchampin> q+
q+ ←
16:54:23 <Guus> ack ivan
Guus Schreiber: ack ivan ←
16:54:59 <davidwood> +1 to Ivan. Displaying text/* in browsers is helpful.
David Wood: +1 to Ivan. Displaying text/* in browsers is helpful. ←
16:55:12 <pchampin> ivan: for me, the fact that it belongs to the text/* hierarchy means that browsers can display the content without any additional application, contrarily to application/* content-types
Ivan Herman: for me, the fact that it belongs to the text/* hierarchy means that browsers can display the content without any additional application, contrarily to application/* content-types ←
16:55:20 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 to Ivan
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to Ivan ←
16:55:23 <Guus> ack pchampin
Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin ←
16:55:30 <sandro> +1 text/* means I can use emacs on it.
Sandro Hawke: +1 text/* means I can use emacs on it. ←
16:55:33 <pchampin> jeremy: I think I disagree
Jeremy Carroll: I think I disagree ←
16:55:43 <AndyS> text/html is not displayed as source
Andy Seaborne: text/html is not displayed as source ←
16:55:48 <gavinc> application/xml is editable in emacs
Gavin Carothers: application/xml is editable in emacs ←
16:56:05 <pchampin> ... think of XML; displaying the angle-brackets is not the best way to display it
... think of XML; displaying the angle-brackets is not the best way to display it ←
16:56:06 <AndyS> Let's see what else is in text/*
Andy Seaborne: Let's see what else is in text/* ←
16:56:25 <davidwood> JeremyCarroll, if we were to define a Content-Type for HTML today, I would argue for application/html
David Wood: JeremyCarroll, if we were to define a Content-Type for HTML today, I would argue for application/html ←
16:56:42 <davidwood> …for the reasons you stated.
David Wood: …for the reasons you stated. ←
16:57:11 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well ←
16:57:13 <zwu2> q+
16:57:24 <pchampin> pchampin: no strong opinion about text vs. application
Pierre-Antoine Champin: no strong opinion about text vs. application ←
16:57:52 <pchampin> ... but for the moment the media type for n-triples is text/plain
... but for the moment the media type for n-triples is text/plain ←
16:57:59 <pchampin> ... would Oracle agree to change that?
... would Oracle agree to change that? ←
16:58:40 <gavinc> +q
Gavin Carothers: +q ←
16:58:45 <Souri> +1 to Zhe's -1
Souripriya Das: +1 to Zhe's -1 ←
16:58:49 <Guus> ack zwu
Guus Schreiber: ack zwu ←
16:58:55 <AndyS> Surely, if "it" is served as text/plain it's ASCII as currently done
Andy Seaborne: Surely, if "it" is served as text/plain it's ASCII as currently done ←
16:59:35 <pchampin> zwu: for us, N-Triple is in production, and should not change (neither charset not content-type)
Zhe Wu: for us, N-Triple is in production, and should not change (neither charset not content-type) ←
17:00:38 <MacTed> N-Triples-ASCII is same as N-Triples (historic); is subset of N-Triples-UTF8
Ted Thibodeau: N-Triples-ASCII is same as N-Triples (historic); is subset of N-Triples-UTF8 ←
17:00:44 <JeremyCarroll> ack me
Jeremy Carroll: ack me ←
17:00:44 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well ←
17:00:56 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll
Guus Schreiber: ack JeremyCarroll ←
17:01:05 <Guus> ack gavinc
Guus Schreiber: ack gavinc ←
17:01:21 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: with Gavin's proposal various documents have mutliple legal mimetypes
Jeremy Carroll: with Gavin's proposal various documents have mutliple legal mimetypes [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:01:32 <AndyS> q+ to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week. ←
17:01:45 <Souri> q+
Souripriya Das: q+ ←
17:02:00 <pchampin> gavin: N-Triple was explicitly not intended to become a standard format
Gavin Carothers: N-Triple was explicitly not intended to become a standard format ←
17:02:04 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
17:02:04 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week. ←
17:02:05 <zwu2> q+
17:02:06 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: e.g. an ascii ntriples doc can be served as text/plain applicaiton/ntriples, ascii; alpplicaiton/ntriples utf8; text/turtle utf8
Jeremy Carroll: e.g. an ascii ntriples doc can be served as text/plain applicaiton/ntriples, ascii; alpplicaiton/ntriples utf8; text/turtle utf8 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:02:19 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to add to gavin's point
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to add to gavin's point ←
17:02:44 <JeremyCarroll> Jeremy: strong disagreement with Souri
Jeremy Carroll: strong disagreement with Souri [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
17:02:49 <pfps> +1 to gavin - anyone can object to anything, and this is a serious bar to change, but certainly not an absolute bar
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to gavin - anyone can object to anything, and this is a serious bar to change, but certainly not an absolute bar ←
17:03:05 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
17:03:11 <Souri> q-
Souripriya Das: q- ←
17:03:21 <Guus> ack zwu
Guus Schreiber: ack zwu ←
17:03:23 <pchampin> souri: extending n-triple it is ok as soon as it maintaisn backward compatibility
Souripriya Das: extending n-triple it is ok as soon as it maintaisn backward compatibility ←
17:03:35 <ericP> q+ to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data ←
17:04:12 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll
Guus Schreiber: ack JeremyCarroll ←
17:04:12 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to add to gavin's point
Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to add to gavin's point ←
17:04:16 <JeremyCarroll> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples
Jeremy Carroll: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples ←
17:04:49 <JeremyCarroll> NOTE : N-Triples is an RDF syntax for expressing RDF test cases and defining the correspondence between RDF/XML and the RDF abstract syntax. RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX] is the recommended syntax for applications to exchange RDF information.
Jeremy Carroll: NOTE : N-Triples is an RDF syntax for expressing RDF test cases and defining the correspondence between RDF/XML and the RDF abstract syntax. RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX] is the recommended syntax for applications to exchange RDF information. ←
17:05:52 <zwu2> q+
17:06:04 <pchampin> q+
q+ ←
17:06:44 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:06:44 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
17:07:38 <Souri> q+
Souripriya Das: q+ ←
17:07:56 <pfps> Further, there has been no previous attempt (that I am aware of) to promote n-triples to an interchange syntax.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Further, there has been no previous attempt (that I am aware of) to promote n-triples to an interchange syntax. ←
17:08:02 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:08:02 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
17:08:10 <pchampin> jeremy: zwu and souri can not oppose to us a language that they used in a way that was explicitly discouraged by the spec
Jeremy Carroll: zwu and souri can not oppose to us a language that they used in a way that was explicitly discouraged by the spec ←
17:08:20 <sandro> ted: The retrofit is the responsibility of the implementor who did not read the standard.
Ted Thibodeau: The retrofit is the responsibility of the implementor who did not read the standard. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
17:08:34 <pchampin> zwu: but now, the market reality is here, we should take it into account
Zhe Wu: but now, the market reality is here, we should take it into account ←
17:08:58 <pchampin> q?
q? ←
17:09:20 <Guus> ack EricP
Guus Schreiber: ack EricP ←
17:09:20 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data ←
17:09:50 <gavinc> N-Triples is excellent, lets make it a standard!
Gavin Carothers: N-Triples is excellent, lets make it a standard! ←
17:09:53 <davidwood> From the charter: "The mission of the RDF Working Group, part of the Semantic Web Activity, is to update the 2004 version of the Resource Description Framework (RDF) Recommendation. The scope of work is to extend RDF to include some of the features that the community has identified as both desirable and important for interoperability based on experience with the 2004 version of the standard, but *without having a negative effect on existing deployment effort
David Wood: From the charter: "The mission of the RDF Working Group, part of the Semantic Web Activity, is to update the 2004 version of the Resource Description Framework (RDF) Recommendation. The scope of work is to extend RDF to include some of the features that the community has identified as both desirable and important for interoperability based on experience with the 2004 version of the standard, but *without having a negative effect on existing deployment effort ←
17:09:57 <Souri> q-
Souripriya Das: q- ←
17:10:01 <davidwood> Unfortunate or not
David Wood: Unfortunate or not ←
17:10:21 <AndyS> I have not seen any proposal that invalidates existing N-triples data.
Andy Seaborne: I have not seen any proposal that invalidates existing N-triples data. ←
17:10:29 <JeremyCarroll> +1 to AndyS
Jeremy Carroll: +1 to AndyS ←
17:11:02 <davidwood> Well, yes, but the Content-Type would still be an issue beyond the data.
David Wood: Well, yes, but the Content-Type would still be an issue beyond the data. ←
17:11:09 <sandro> Still... what if there is old SOFTWARE ? *it* will break on seeing the new N-Triples data.
Sandro Hawke: Still... what if there is old SOFTWARE ? *it* will break on seeing the new N-Triples data. ←
17:11:18 <gavinc> Yes.
Gavin Carothers: Yes. ←
17:11:20 <pchampin> gavin: anything considered to be n-triples is acceptable by the Turtle grammar
Gavin Carothers: anything considered to be n-triples is acceptable by the Turtle grammar ←
17:11:26 <JeremyCarroll> old software will break on *any* change
Jeremy Carroll: old software will break on *any* change ←
17:11:33 <ericP> sandro, how's http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes look to you?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: sandro, how's http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes look to you? ←
17:11:39 <Guus> ack pchampin
Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin ←
17:11:45 <Guus> ack zwu
Guus Schreiber: ack zwu ←
17:11:51 <pchampin> q-
q- ←
17:13:57 <pchampin> guus: could eric come up with a proposal for ISSUE-73 and ISSUE-74
Guus Schreiber: could eric come up with a proposal for ISSUE-73 and ISSUE-74 ←
17:14:04 <pchampin> ISSUE-73?
17:14:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open ←
17:14:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73 ←
17:14:07 <pchampin> ISSUE-74?
17:14:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open ←
17:14:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74 ←
17:14:12 <ericP> http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes ←
17:14:20 <sandro> ericP, I'm pretty happy with the table.
Sandro Hawke: ericP, I'm pretty happy with the table. ←
17:15:04 <AndyS> I'm happy to change the SPARQL names.
Andy Seaborne: I'm happy to change the SPARQL names. ←
17:15:13 <AndyS> (likely grammar update anyway)
Andy Seaborne: (likely grammar update anyway) ←
17:16:00 <pchampin> eric: issue-73 should be solved consistently in Turtle and SPARQL
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ISSUE-73 should be solved consistently in Turtle and SPARQL ←
17:16:49 <pchampin> guus: volunteers for reviewing the draft?
Guus Schreiber: volunteers for reviewing the draft? ←
17:16:53 <pchampin> andy: I volunteer
Andy Seaborne: I volunteer ←
17:17:33 <pchampin> guus: will differ the choice of a 2nd volunteer until next week
Guus Schreiber: will differ the choice of a 2nd volunteer until next week ←
17:17:38 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:17:39 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll ←
17:17:40 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
17:17:40 <AZ_> bye
Antoine Zimmermann: bye ←
17:17:43 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
17:17:45 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
17:17:46 <Zakim> -cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer ←
17:17:48 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
17:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aagg ←
17:17:50 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
17:17:51 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
17:17:53 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
17:17:54 <pchampin> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
17:17:56 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
17:17:58 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
17:19:06 <gavinc> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
17:19:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, sandro, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, LeeF, EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, sandro, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, LeeF, EricP ←
17:19:18 <Guus> :-)
Guus Schreiber: :-) ←
17:20:30 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
17:20:42 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
Formatted by CommonScribe