edit

RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 03 August 2011

Seen
Alex Hall, Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Ivan Herman, Matteo Brunati, Mischa Tuffield, Nicholas Humfrey, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Scott Bauer, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Zhe Wu
Scribe
Pierre-Antoine Champin
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft link
  2. the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc) link
Topics
14:22:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-irc

14:22:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:22:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:22:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes

14:22:18 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:22:18 <trackbot> Date: 03 August 2011
14:53:55 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 31 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:54:02 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa

14:54:09 <gavinc> zakim, aaaa is me

Gavin Carothers: zakim, aaaa is me

14:54:09 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it

14:58:23 <SteveH> Zakim, what is the code?

Steve Harris: Zakim, what is the code?

14:58:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH

14:58:34 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

14:58:39 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P11 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me

14:58:39 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

14:58:48 <Zakim> +David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood

14:59:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:59:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:59:59 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:00:19 <davidwood> Zakim, you appear to be a goldfish

David Wood: Zakim, you appear to be a goldfish

15:00:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you appear to be a goldfish', davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'you appear to be a goldfish', davidwood

15:00:42 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:00:53 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:00:53 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:00:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:00:55 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:01:08 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

15:01:13 <cygri> zakim, what's the code?

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, what's the code?

15:01:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri

15:01:23 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

15:01:35 <AndyS1> zakim, ??P6 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P6 is me

15:01:35 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS1; got it

15:01:45 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

15:01:45 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

15:01:48 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

15:01:55 <pchampin> zakim, ??P4 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P4 is me

15:01:55 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:02:03 <Zakim> +mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas

15:02:04 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy?

15:02:11 <pchampin> zakim, mute me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, mute me

15:02:11 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pchampin should now be muted

15:02:13 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is me

15:02:13 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

15:02:15 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (45%), mhausenblas (10%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pchampin (45%), mhausenblas (10%)

15:02:20 <Zakim> +Tony

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony

15:02:26 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aabb

15:02:32 <Scott_Bauer> zakim, tony is me

Scott Bauer: zakim, tony is me

15:02:32 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it

15:02:34 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aabb is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aabb is me

15:02:34 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

15:02:46 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

15:03:19 <ericP> gavinc, what are the contra-indications for publishing in HTML4.01 for this version?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: gavinc, what are the contra-indications for publishing in HTML4.01 for this version?

15:03:29 <ericP> uncool?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: uncool?

15:03:41 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:03:54 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P1 is me

Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P1 is me

15:03:54 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it

15:04:03 <AndyS1> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:04:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed (muted), AndyS1, Souri, pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed (muted), AndyS1, Souri, pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati

15:04:04 <gavinc> I have no objections to publishing an HTML 4.01 document that is ALSO valid according to validator.nu

Gavin Carothers: I have no objections to publishing an HTML 4.01 document that is ALSO valid according to validator.nu

15:04:32 <cygri> pchampin, if nathan isn't around today, do you want to scribe?

Richard Cyganiak: pchampin, if nathan isn't around today, do you want to scribe?

15:04:42 <pchampin> I can scribe

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I can scribe

15:04:42 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aacc

15:04:50 <AlexHall> zakim, aacc is me

Alex Hall: zakim, aacc is me

15:04:50 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it

15:04:59 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin

(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)

15:05:14 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon:

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon:

15:05:14 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-07-20

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-07-20

15:06:27 <pchampin> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon

RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 20 July telecon

15:06:31 <davidwood> Action item review:

David Wood: Action item review:

15:06:31 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - item

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - item

15:06:31 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

15:06:31 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

15:06:34 <pchampin> topic: open action items

1. open action items

15:08:23 <pchampin> david: all people having open actions are not here today

David Wood: all people having open actions are not here today

15:08:28 <AZ> I am but I'm not on the phone

Antoine Zimmermann: I am but I'm not on the phone

15:08:56 <AZ> hmm, I completely forgot my action

Antoine Zimmermann: hmm, I completely forgot my action

15:09:53 <davidwood> Gavin and Eric P were speaking

David Wood: Gavin and Eric P were speaking

15:10:01 <davidwood> They are the editors of the Turtle document

David Wood: They are the editors of the Turtle document

15:10:08 <pchampin> topic: Turtle moving to First Public Draft

2. Turtle moving to First Public Draft

15:11:09 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:11:27 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:11:31 <pchampin> eric: problems with embedding Turtle in HTML

Eric Prud'hommeaux: problems with embedding Turtle in HTML

15:11:37 <NickH> zakim, ??P21 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P21 is me

15:11:37 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

15:11:49 <NickH> zakim, mute me

Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, mute me

15:11:49 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: NickH should now be muted

15:12:25 <pchampin> ... especially if you want the Turtle to be copy-paste-able from the source

... especially if you want the Turtle to be copy-paste-able from the source

15:12:43 <pchampin> ... (if the scribe got it right)

... (if the scribe got it right)

15:13:16 <pchampin> Ivan: could be solved in ReSpec

Ivan Herman: could be solved in ReSpec

15:13:27 <Zakim> + +34.92.38.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +34.92.38.aadd

15:14:01 <FabGandon> Zakim, 34.92.38.aadd is FabGandon

Fabien Gandon: Zakim, 34.92.38.aadd is FabGandon

15:14:01 <Zakim> sorry, FabGandon, I do not recognize a party named '34.92.38.aadd'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, FabGandon, I do not recognize a party named '34.92.38.aadd'

15:14:17 <FabGandon> Zakim, aadd is FabGandon

Fabien Gandon: Zakim, aadd is FabGandon

15:14:17 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it

15:14:31 <Zakim> + +33.9.54.07.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.9.54.07.aaee

15:14:44 <pchampin> gavin: using CDATA does not work with non-XML-aware browsers

Gavin Carothers: using CDATA does not work with non-XML-aware browsers

15:14:58 <AZ> zakim, +33.9.54.07.aaee is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, +33.9.54.07.aaee is me

15:14:58 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:15:07 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:15:07 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

15:15:15 <pchampin> david: couldn't some javascript help?

David Wood: couldn't some javascript help?

15:15:46 <pchampin> gavin: I don't think we can publish a document with its content dynamically modified by javascript

Gavin Carothers: I don't think we can publish a document with its content dynamically modified by javascript

15:16:28 <pchampin> ivan: I don't really care about being able to copy-paste turtle form the source; I can do that from the browser

Ivan Herman: I don't really care about being able to copy-paste turtle form the source; I can do that from the browser

15:16:45 <ericP> swallow our pride? what are we then?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: swallow our pride? what are we then?

15:16:55 <pchampin> xxx: would make it easier to work with XSL-T as well, though

Eric Prud'hommeaux: would make it easier to work with XSL-T as well, though

15:17:04 <ericP> +1 to just publishing <-encoded turtle

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to just publishing <-encoded turtle

15:18:05 <ericP> q+ to ask about RDFa

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask about RDFa

15:18:12 <pchampin> ivan: we can have all Turtle examples as seperate files, use them to generate the spec (with < encoding), and point in the spec to an archive with all the example as plain Turtle

Ivan Herman: we can have all Turtle examples as seperate files, use them to generate the spec (with < encoding), and point in the spec to an archive with all the example as plain Turtle

15:18:42 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 to Ivan's proposal

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to Ivan's proposal

15:19:18 <pchampin> s/xxx/eric/
15:20:24 <pchampin> eric: we should apply the solution that allows us to publish sooner

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we should apply the solution that allows us to publish sooner

15:20:51 <ivan> gavin, the rdfa source: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html

Ivan Herman: gavin, the rdfa source: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html

15:21:28 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

15:21:31 <ericP> q-

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q-

15:21:52 <pchampin> topic: FTF2 Admin

3. FTF2 Admin

15:21:54 <davidwood> FTF2 Admin

David Wood: FTF2 Admin

15:21:54 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2

15:23:10 <pchampin> david: people need to edit the wikipage above to indicate whether they will attend physically, remotely, or not

David Wood: people need to edit the wikipage above to indicate whether they will attend physically, remotely, or not

15:25:45 <pchampin> david: it was proposed to have videoconference link with DERI for people from europe who could not come to MIT

David Wood: it was proposed to have videoconference link with DERI for people from europe who could not come to MIT

15:26:03 <pchampin> richard: it was proposed, but I'm not sure if that will be possible

Richard Cyganiak: it was proposed, but I'm not sure if that will be possible

15:26:04 <AndyS1> Hello

Andy Seaborne: Hello

15:26:33 <pchampin> ... should be confirmed by someone who knows more what equipment will be available on both sides

... should be confirmed by someone who knows more what equipment will be available on both sides

15:26:37 <FabGandon> q+ to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1

Fabien Gandon: q+ to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1

15:27:43 <davidwood> ack FabGandon

David Wood: ack FabGandon

15:27:43 <Zakim> FabGandon, you wanted to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1

Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon, you wanted to mention discussions for having facilities for F2F meetings at WWW 2012 + 3rd F2F of RDF 1.1

15:27:47 <AndyS1> Oxford end was in computer lab.  Worked well.

Andy Seaborne: Oxford end was in computer lab. Worked well.

15:28:32 <pchampin> fabien: wanted to mentionned on-going discussion with WWW 2012 organizers to have FTF3 there

Fabien Gandon: wanted to mentionned on-going discussion with WWW 2012 organizers to have FTF3 there

15:28:42 <ericP> -> http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference MIT teleconferencing equipment

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference MIT teleconferencing equipment

15:29:01 <AndyS1> Poll was: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/F2F2-EAST/

Andy Seaborne: Poll was: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/F2F2-EAST/

15:29:13 <gavinc> Yes

Gavin Carothers: Yes

15:29:17 <gavinc> Link works

Gavin Carothers: Link works

15:29:51 <pchampin> richard: I will check if the equipment pointed to by eric will work with our equipments at DERI

Richard Cyganiak: I will check if the equipment pointed to by eric will work with our equipments at DERI

15:31:03 <pchampin> ivan: I think there was also an offer to host the meeting at the Lucent labs in Dublin, have to check with Chris

Ivan Herman: I think there was also an offer to host the meeting at the Lucent labs in Dublin, have to check with Chris

15:31:09 <cygri> ACTION: richard to check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2

ACTION: richard to check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2

15:31:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-08-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-72 - Check if DERI video conferencing equipment is compatible with http://tig.csail.mit.edu/twiki/bin/view/Ops/VideoConference for F2F2 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-08-10].

15:31:26 <pchampin> topic: RDF Concepts Editors Draft

4. RDF Concepts Editors Draft

15:32:24 <pchampin> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html

http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html

15:32:28 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:32:29 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:32:34 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:32:41 <pchampin> richard: I can turn it from an editor's draft to a working draft

Richard Cyganiak: I can turn it from an editor's draft to a working draft

15:33:13 <pchampin> ivan: administrative question: is it possible to publish it in the same move as the Turtle document?

Ivan Herman: administrative question: is it possible to publish it in the same move as the Turtle document?

15:33:23 <pchampin> david: I don't care

David Wood: I don't care

15:33:51 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

15:33:58 <pchampin> ... I would even prefer two distinct announcements

... I would even prefer two distinct announcements

15:34:36 <pchampin> gavin: if published separately, they can not formaly refer to each other

Gavin Carothers: if published separately, they can not formaly refer to each other

15:34:53 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:35:02 <Zakim> +AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ

15:35:03 <pchampin> david: not a problem at this stage, but may be we should record an issue to remember to update the links

David Wood: not a problem at this stage, but may be we should record an issue to remember to update the links

15:35:13 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:35:13 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

15:36:23 <pchampin> richard: I need to know what will be the short name, the date of the document

Richard Cyganiak: I need to know what will be the short name, the date of the document

15:36:39 <pchampin> gavin: the webmaster will tell you when you publish the document

Gavin Carothers: the webmaster will tell you when you publish the document

15:37:00 <pchampin> ... I can help you in the process, just went through it

... I can help you in the process, just went through it

15:37:23 <pchampin> ivan: do we use the same short names as the original RDF or different ones?

Ivan Herman: do we use the same short names as the original RDF or different ones?

15:38:02 <pchampin> richard: I think we discussed this a time ago: new short name during the development (rdf11-*) and in the end replace the original short names

Richard Cyganiak: I think we discussed this a time ago: new short name during the development (rdf11-*) and in the end replace the original short names

15:39:30 <pchampin> ivan: the short name needs to be approved; we need to provide a short description of the document to Thomas, but he is in vacations now

Ivan Herman: the short name needs to be approved; we need to provide a short description of the document to Thomas, but he is in vacations now

15:39:56 <pchampin> ... once this is done and the short name is approved, richard has to contact the webmaster

... once this is done and the short name is approved, richard has to contact the webmaster

15:41:41 <pchampin> david: if we agree here, I'll call a call for consensus on the list so that everyone can express

David Wood: if we agree here, I'll call a call for consensus on the list so that everyone can express

15:41:57 <pchampin> ivan: we should record it as a resolution

Ivan Herman: we should record it as a resolution

15:42:08 <mischat> i wonder who will be updating the RDF related validators on w3.org ...

Mischa Tuffield: i wonder who will be updating the RDF related validators on w3.org ...

15:42:14 <pchampin> PROPOSED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft

PROPOSED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft

15:42:21 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:42:22 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:42:23 <AndyS1> +1 (Apache)

Andy Seaborne: +1 (Apache)

15:42:24 <cygri> +1

Richard Cyganiak: +1

15:42:25 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:42:27 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

15:42:28 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:42:29 <pchampin> pchampin: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:42:30 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:42:36 <mischat> +!

Mischa Tuffield: +!

15:42:37 <mischat> +1

Mischa Tuffield: +1

15:42:43 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:42:49 <AlexHall> +1

Alex Hall: +1

15:42:51 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

15:43:19 <ivan> RESOLVED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft

RESOLVED: move RDF-Concepts to 1st public working draft

15:43:49 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:43:58 <gavinc> Turtle version: Turtle is already a reasonably settled serialization of RDF. Many implementations of Turtle already exist, we are hoping for feedback from those existing implementers and other people deciding that now would be a good time to support Turtle. There are still a few rough edges that need polishing, and better alignment with the SPARQL triple patterns. The working group does not expect to make any large changes to the existing syntax.

Gavin Carothers: Turtle version: Turtle is already a reasonably settled serialization of RDF. Many implementations of Turtle already exist, we are hoping for feedback from those existing implementers and other people deciding that now would be a good time to support Turtle. There are still a few rough edges that need polishing, and better alignment with the SPARQL triple patterns. The working group does not expect to make any large changes to the existing syntax.

15:45:39 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-rdf-concepts-20020829/

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-rdf-concepts-20020829/

15:46:00 <AndyS1> http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#Status

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#Status

15:46:39 <gavinc> When I wrote the Turtle one I was unable to find any good examples :\

Gavin Carothers: When I wrote the Turtle one I was unable to find any good examples :\

15:46:47 <pchampin> ivan: Richard should write a paragraph similar to the one in the Turtle document (quoted by Gavin above) and send it to the rest of the group

Ivan Herman: Richard should write a paragraph similar to the one in the Turtle document (quoted by Gavin above) and send it to the rest of the group

15:48:15 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

15:48:24 <davidwood> TimBL expressed the goal of the custom paragraph this way, "Don't be afraid of being honest about the relevant techno-political situation."

David Wood: TimBL expressed the goal of the custom paragraph this way, "Don't be afraid of being honest about the relevant techno-political situation."

15:48:25 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (25%), FabGandon (20%)

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (25%), FabGandon (20%)

15:48:25 <pchampin> david: the link pasted by Andy is correct, but does not provide much guidance

David Wood: the link pasted by Andy is correct, but does not provide much guidance

15:48:43 <ivan> zakim, mute FabGandon

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute FabGandon

15:48:43 <Zakim> FabGandon should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon should now be muted

15:48:56 <AndyS1> Good news, this does not happen every publication cycle.

Andy Seaborne: Good news, this does not happen every publication cycle.

15:48:57 <davidwood> Introduction of RDF/XML spec doesn't explain relationship to RDF Concepts

David Wood: Introduction of RDF/XML spec doesn't explain relationship to RDF Concepts

15:48:57 <davidwood>  http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/72

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/72

15:49:46 <mischat>  s/n3/ntriples/

Mischa Tuffield: s/n3/ntriples/

15:51:21 <pchampin> gavin: I think the Turtle document does a slightly better job

Gavin Carothers: I think the Turtle document does a slightly better job

15:51:22 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-parsing-triples

Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-parsing-triples

15:51:32 <pchampin> ... is that what you mean?

... is that what you mean?

15:54:01 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-intro

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-intro

15:54:11 <mischat> cygri: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-intro

Richard Cyganiak: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-intro [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

15:55:42 <FabGandon> zakim, unmute FabGandon

Fabien Gandon: zakim, unmute FabGandon

15:55:42 <Zakim> FabGandon should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: FabGandon should no longer be muted

15:55:59 <pchampin> ivan: I'm scared of touching the RDF/XML document

Ivan Herman: I'm scared of touching the RDF/XML document

15:56:11 <pchampin> david: we have to align it with the terminology, though

David Wood: we have to align it with the terminology, though

15:56:18 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:56:30 <pchampin> ... and to update the links

... and to update the links

15:56:34 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:56:58 <pchampin> ivan: unfortunatelly

Ivan Herman: unfortunatelly

15:57:02 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

15:57:51 <pchampin> richard: some things really have to be done, including correcting some errors that have been spotted

Richard Cyganiak: some things really have to be done, including correcting some errors that have been spotted

15:58:05 <pchampin> ... also, making it clear that this is just *one* syntax for an RDF graph

... also, making it clear that this is just *one* syntax for an RDF graph

15:58:38 <pchampin> ... though I can understand the arguments against touching the document at all

... though I can understand the arguments against touching the document at all

15:58:52 <cygri> ivan++

Richard Cyganiak: ivan++

15:59:03 <pchampin> ivan: we can agree that any change we do is purely editorial

Ivan Herman: we can agree that any change we do is purely editorial

15:59:26 <mischat> is s/rdf graph/$somethingMoreModern/ considered an editorial change

Mischa Tuffield: is s/rdf graph/$somethingMoreModern/ considered an editorial change

15:59:27 <mischat> ?

Mischa Tuffield: ?

15:59:49 <pchampin> david: should this be a resolution?

David Wood: should this be a resolution?

16:00:02 <pchampin> ivan: yes, it's probably good to have it

Ivan Herman: yes, it's probably good to have it

16:00:37 <ivan> PROPOSED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)

PROPOSED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)

16:00:56 <cygri> +1

Richard Cyganiak: +1

16:00:57 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:00:58 <gavinc> +ugh

Gavin Carothers: +ugh

16:00:59 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:01:00 <FabGandon> +1

Fabien Gandon: +1

16:01:01 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:01:01 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

16:01:04 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:01:05 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:01:08 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

16:01:09 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

16:01:10 <AndyS1> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:01:14 <AlexHall> +1

Alex Hall: +1

16:01:29 <ivan> RESOLVED:  the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)

RESOLVED: the working group agrees that the RDF/XML document will have to undergo a minimal, editorial change to fit into the new set of recommendations (update of references, terms, etc)

16:01:43 <mischat> still thinks that s/rdf graph/XXXX/ would be nice ...

Mischa Tuffield: still thinks that s/rdf graph/XXXX/ would be nice ...

16:02:08 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:02:30 <pchampin> david: I don't want to open the can of worm "Graph terminology" given the remaining time

David Wood: I don't want to open the can of worm "Graph terminology" given the remaining time

16:02:58 <pchampin> ivan: will the terminology appear in the RDF Concepts document?

Ivan Herman: will the terminology appear in the RDF Concepts document?

16:03:01 <pchampin> david: yes

David Wood: yes

16:03:05 <cygri> ivan, long answer: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph

Richard Cyganiak: ivan, long answer: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-multigraph

16:04:09 <pchampin> ivan: from the last emails, it seems we are reaching consensus

Ivan Herman: from the last emails, it seems we are reaching consensus

16:04:58 <pchampin> david: I agree, but I don't want to settle this issue in august, without some of the people that will want to be very careful about it

David Wood: I agree, but I don't want to settle this issue in august, without some of the people that will want to be very careful about it

16:05:23 <pchampin> topic: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals

5. ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals

16:05:00 <davidwood> Proposal for ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals

David Wood: Proposal for ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals

16:05:05 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jul/0048.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jul/0048.html

16:06:03 <pchampin> richard: I can summarize the proposal:

Richard Cyganiak: I can summarize the proposal:

16:06:15 <pchampin> ... don't change the way literals with language tag work

... don't change the way literals with language tag work

16:07:25 <pchampin> ... propose to call them 'language-tagged strings' because the old term "plain literals with language tag" does not makes sense anymore

... propose to call them 'language-tagged strings' because the old term "plain literals with language tag" does not makes sense anymore

16:07:43 <pchampin> ... introduce a class rdf:LangString to allow it as rdfs:range of properties

... introduce a class rdf:LangString to allow it as rdfs:range of properties

16:08:43 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:08:56 <pchampin> andy: I would prefer literals with language tag to have a datatype

Andy Seaborne: I would prefer literals with language tag to have a datatype

16:10:56 <pchampin> ... with only one datatype covering all language tags

... with only one datatype covering all language tags

16:11:04 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

16:11:05 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

16:11:34 <pchampin> ivan: in a sense, I'm in favor with what Andy says;

Ivan Herman: in a sense, I'm in favor with what Andy says;

16:11:41 <cygri> q+ to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf

16:12:16 <pchampin> ... using rdf:LangString as the range of a datatype-property, if rdf:LangString is not a datatype, is strange from an user's point of view

... using rdf:LangString as the range of a datatype-property, if rdf:LangString is not a datatype, is strange from an user's point of view

16:12:21 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:12:22 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to say that there are no datatype properties in rdf

16:13:06 <davidwood> …but the OWL and RIF WGs will be concerned with higher-level schemas

David Wood: …but the OWL and RIF WGs will be concerned with higher-level schemas

16:13:09 <pchampin> richard: I think that is a non issue; the distinction between object-properties and datatype-properties in not part of RDF

Richard Cyganiak: I think that is a non issue; the distinction between object-properties and datatype-properties in not part of RDF

16:13:16 <pchampin> ivan: but we can't ignore it

Ivan Herman: but we can't ignore it

16:13:55 <pchampin> richard: but the issue is not new, then: rdf:Literal is already a class

Richard Cyganiak: but the issue is not new, then: rdf:Literal is already a class

16:14:30 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

16:14:52 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:15:32 <AndyS1> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

16:15:54 <AndyS1> q+ to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.

Andy Seaborne: q+ to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.

16:16:33 <pchampin> richard: I have two concerns:

Richard Cyganiak: I have two concerns:

16:16:51 <pchampin> ... 1/ the complexity of a conceptual framework with (lexical form, datatype, language tag)

... 1/ the complexity of a conceptual framework with (lexical form, datatype, language tag)

16:17:02 <pchampin> ... where language tag can only be present if datatype has certain values

... where language tag can only be present if datatype has certain values

16:17:09 <pchampin> ... 2/ abusing the notion of datatype

... 2/ abusing the notion of datatype

16:17:11 <AndyS1> There are numbers you can't write down already.

Andy Seaborne: There are numbers you can't write down already.

16:17:32 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

16:17:32 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to say that is heading to langtag = implicit datatype.

16:18:15 <Zakim> -NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH

16:18:18 <pchampin> pchampin: @AndyS: are those numbers (that you can't write down) part of any xsd datatype??

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @AndyS: are those numbers (that you can't write down) part of any xsd datatype??

16:19:11 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

16:19:34 <pchampin> david: should we revisit the datatype discussion based on the new perspective you brought (single datatype, instead of one datatype per language tag)?

David Wood: should we revisit the datatype discussion based on the new perspective you brought (single datatype, instead of one datatype per language tag)?

16:19:39 <AndyS1> They are in the value space which is the number line :-)

Andy Seaborne: They are in the value space which is the number line :-)

16:20:16 <pchampin> david: we have to adjourn now; next telecon in two weeks

David Wood: we have to adjourn now; next telecon in two weeks

16:20:18 <SteveH> bye

Steve Harris: bye

16:20:19 <zwu2> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

16:20:20 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

16:20:22 <mbrunati> bye

Matteo Brunati: bye

16:20:22 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

16:20:26 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

16:20:33 <Zakim> -mbrunati

Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati

16:20:47 <pchampin> RRSagent, make minutes

RRSagent, make minutes

16:20:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/03-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin

16:20:47 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:20:49 <Zakim> -David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: -David_Wood

16:20:50 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

16:20:51 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:20:52 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:21:04 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer

16:21:09 <Zakim> -AndyS1

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS1

16:21:10 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

16:21:16 <cygri> gavinc, i'll try to do �the FPWD thing in ReSpec. might come to you with questions.

Richard Cyganiak: gavinc, i'll try to do �the FPWD thing in ReSpec. might come to you with questions.

16:21:30 <gavinc> cygri sounds good

Gavin Carothers: cygri sounds good

16:21:40 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:22:29 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

16:22:30 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

16:22:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed, Souri, AndyS1, pchampin, cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati, +1.443.212.aacc, AlexHall, NickH,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.707.861.aaaa, gavinc, SteveH, David_Wood, Ivan, MacTed, Souri, AndyS1, pchampin, cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, ericP, mbrunati, +1.443.212.aacc, AlexHall, NickH,

16:22:35 <Zakim> ... +34.92.38.aadd, FabGandon, AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +34.92.38.aadd, FabGandon, AZ

16:22:58 <pchampin> can anyone help me with the publishing of the minutes on the wiki?

can anyone help me with the publishing of the minutes on the wiki?

16:23:18 <gavinc> Okay, I think I have javascript that turns all the examples <scripts> into <divs>

Gavin Carothers: Okay, I think I have javascript that turns all the examples <scripts> into <divs>

16:23:20 <gavinc> what fun

Gavin Carothers: what fun

16:23:57 <pchampin> RRSagant, make records public

RRSagant, make records public

16:24:13 <pchampin> RRSagent, make records public

RRSagent, make records public



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