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14:22:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:22:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:22:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:22:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes ←
14:22:11 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:22:11 <trackbot> Date: 04 May 2011
14:46:39 <davidwood> Chair: David Wood
14:46:52 <davidwood> Scribe: Thomas Steiner
(No events recorded for 24 minutes)
(Scribe set to Thomas Steiner)
14:47:30 <sandro> mischat, yes, the MIT facility does that, but might not fit all the people who want to be local at MIT.
Sandro Hawke: mischat, yes, the MIT facility does that, but might not fit all the people who want to be local at MIT. ←
14:48:24 <mischat> sure
Mischa Tuffield: sure ←
14:49:49 <mischat> well at least it is an option, i wonder how many people would be at the east coast event if there was a european place to sit as well ...
Mischa Tuffield: well at least it is an option, i wonder how many people would be at the east coast event if there was a european place to sit as well ... ←
14:50:24 <sandro> Yeah, mischat, Guus was going to make a poll to find the answer to that question.
Sandro Hawke: Yeah, mischat, Guus was going to make a poll to find the answer to that question. ←
14:53:09 <gavinc> Zakim, code?
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, code? ←
14:53:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), gavinc ←
14:53:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:53:45 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
14:53:53 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:53:53 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
14:54:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:54:19 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:54:20 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:54:56 <Zakim> +Tony
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony ←
14:55:58 <Scott> zakim, Tony is me
Scott Bauer: zakim, Tony is me ←
14:55:58 <Zakim> +Scott; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott; got it ←
14:56:16 <Zakim> + +1.404.978.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.404.978.aabb ←
14:56:30 <tomayac> zakim, aabb is me
zakim, aabb is me ←
14:56:30 <Zakim> +tomayac; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac; got it ←
14:57:38 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:57:46 <AndyS> zakim, ??P7 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P7 is me ←
14:57:46 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:57:51 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.38.aacc ←
14:58:18 <OlivierCorby> zakim, aacc is me
Olivier Corby: zakim, aacc is me ←
14:58:18 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby; got it ←
14:59:00 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.898.aadd ←
14:59:09 <davidwood> zakim, aadd is me
David Wood: zakim, aadd is me ←
14:59:09 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:00:08 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office ←
15:00:08 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
15:00:08 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:00:53 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P10 is me
Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P10 is me ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:01:04 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:01:07 <davidwood> ScribeNick: tomayac
15:01:21 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:01:21 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:50 <Zakim> +danield
Zakim IRC Bot: +danield ←
15:01:56 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:02:00 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:02:02 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aaee ←
15:02:09 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
15:02:15 <FabGandon> Zakim, danield is me
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, danield is me ←
15:02:15 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it ←
15:02:18 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:02:18 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:02:23 <AlexHall> zakim, +1.443.212.aaee is me
Alex Hall: zakim, +1.443.212.aaee is me ←
15:02:23 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:02:33 <ivan> zakim, ??P17 is Pierre-Antoine
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P17 is Pierre-Antoine ←
15:02:33 <Zakim> I already had ??P17 as pchampin, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P17 as pchampin, ivan ←
15:03:56 <ericP> q+ to object to pchampin's proposal
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to object to pchampin's proposal ←
15:03:59 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
15:04:08 <ericP> ack me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me ←
15:04:11 <tomayac> TOPIC: minutes
15:04:12 <tomayac> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes ←
15:04:27 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:04:30 <tomayac> +1
+1 ←
15:04:36 <tomayac> Minutes accepted.
Minutes accepted. ←
15:04:37 <tomayac> TOPIC: ACTION item review
15:04:52 <tomayac> ACTION-34 overdue
15:05:01 <Zakim> +Russell
Zakim IRC Bot: +Russell ←
15:05:04 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/34
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/34 ←
15:05:08 <tomayac> Done, whole heap of issues raised, see action
Done, whole heap of issues raised, see action ←
15:05:10 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:05:10 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
15:05:11 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
15:05:21 <ericP> Zakim, please mute ??P29
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please mute ??P29 ←
15:05:21 <Zakim> ??P29 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: ??P29 should now be muted ←
15:05:22 <mischat> zakim, ??P29 is mischat
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P29 is mischat ←
15:05:22 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it ←
15:05:36 <tomayac> davidwood: going through issues today
David Wood: going through issues today ←
15:05:41 <tomayac> davidwood: some easy, some hard
David Wood: some easy, some hard ←
15:05:41 <mischat> zakim, ??P29 has mischat, SteveH
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P29 has mischat, SteveH ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??P29'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??P29' ←
15:05:50 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-34
15:05:51 <tomayac> PROPOSED: to close ACTION-34
PROPOSED: to close ACTION-34 ←
15:05:55 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik]
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik] ←
15:05:55 <Zakim> I already had ??P29 as mischat, SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P29 as mischat, SteveH ←
15:06:01 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
15:06:02 <tomayac> RESOLVED: closing ACTION-34
15:06:22 <AZ> zakim, maybe I'm Russel
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, maybe I'm Russel ←
15:06:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'maybe I'm Russel', AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'maybe I'm Russel', AZ ←
15:06:32 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.642.aaff ←
15:06:39 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-22
15:06:40 <AZ> zakim, I may be Russel
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, I may be Russel ←
15:06:40 <Zakim> +Russel?; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Russel?; got it ←
15:06:47 <tomayac> but cygri sent regrets
but cygri sent regrets ←
15:06:57 <zwu2> zakim, +1.408.642.aaff is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.408.642.aaff is me ←
15:06:59 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:07:00 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:07:00 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
15:07:07 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-21
15:07:15 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/22
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/22 ←
15:07:19 <cmatheus> zakim. ??P32 is cmatheus
Christopher Matheus: zakim. ??P32 is cmatheus ←
15:07:21 <tomayac> will be clearified
will be clearified ←
15:07:45 <tomayac> sandro: RESOLVED: ACTION-39 closed
Sandro Hawke: RESOLVED: ACTION-39 closed ←
15:08:26 <tomayac> subtopic: unrecorded action: look at respec text vs. wiki text
15:09:00 <tomayac> gavin: action was unrecorded
Gavin Carothers: action was unrecorded ←
15:09:28 <tomayac> gavin, wlliam, pierre-antoine on the unrecorded action
gavin, wlliam, pierre-antoine on the unrecorded action ←
15:09:44 <cmatheus> zakim, ??P32 is cmatheus
Christopher Matheus: zakim, ??P32 is cmatheus ←
15:09:45 <Zakim> I already had ??P32 as Nick_van_den_Bleeken, cmatheus
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P32 as Nick_van_den_Bleeken, cmatheus ←
15:09:49 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-41
15:09:59 <sandro> action gavin: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring
Sandro Hawke: action gavin: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring ←
15:09:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-43 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-05-11]. ←
15:10:00 <tomayac> poll for face2face, on antoine
poll for face2face, on antoine ←
15:10:00 <AZ> zakim, unmute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, unmute me ←
15:10:00 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
15:10:08 <sandro> action william: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring
Sandro Hawke: action william: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring ←
15:10:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on William Waites - due 2011-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-44 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on William Waites - due 2011-05-11]. ←
15:10:11 <AZ> can you hear me?
Antoine Zimmermann: can you hear me? ←
15:10:11 <mischat> i found out about the video conferencing facilities at southampton uni fwiw
Mischa Tuffield: i found out about the video conferencing facilities at southampton uni fwiw ←
15:10:27 <sandro> action piere-antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring
Sandro Hawke: action piere-antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring ←
15:10:27 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - piere-antoine
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - piere-antoine ←
15:10:42 <AZ> it seems I have a problem with my mic
Antoine Zimmermann: it seems I have a problem with my mic ←
15:10:46 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:10:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, Russel?, Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, Russel?, Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall, ←
15:10:49 <Zakim> ... sandro, Russell, mischat (muted), ??P30, zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, Russell, mischat (muted), ??P30, zwu2 ←
15:10:55 <sandro> action Pierre-Antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring
Sandro Hawke: action Pierre-Antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring ←
15:10:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2011-05-11].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-45 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2011-05-11]. ←
15:11:01 <cmatheus> zakim, ??P30 is cmatheus
Christopher Matheus: zakim, ??P30 is cmatheus ←
15:11:01 <Zakim> +cmatheus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cmatheus; got it ←
15:11:06 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/42
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/42 ←
15:11:08 <AZ> I have a text to propose
Antoine Zimmermann: I have a text to propose ←
15:11:11 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-42
15:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-42 Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-42 Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings notes added ←
15:11:21 <tomayac> text in email. link anyone?
text in email. link anyone? ←
15:11:22 <AZ> "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."
Antoine Zimmermann: "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag." ←
15:11:26 <gavinc> "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."
Gavin Carothers: "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag." ←
15:11:28 <AZ> it's the same as in my email
Antoine Zimmermann: it's the same as in my email ←
15:11:35 <tomayac> same as in email
same as in email ←
15:11:46 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0057.html
David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0057.html ←
15:12:10 <tomayac> RESOLVED: ACTION-42 herewith closed
RESOLVED: ACTION-42 herewith closed ←
15:12:23 <tomayac> Topic: SPARQL-Turtle Alignemnt
15:12:28 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
15:12:36 <Zakim> -mischat
Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat ←
15:12:38 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P34 is [Garlik]
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P34 is [Garlik] ←
15:12:38 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it ←
15:12:47 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and mischat
Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and mischat ←
15:12:47 <Zakim> +SteveH, mischat; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH, mischat; got it ←
15:12:56 <tomayac> issues, agreements, disagreements
issues, agreements, disagreements ←
15:13:06 <tomayac> andy discussion lead
andy discussion lead ←
15:13:33 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle ←
15:13:35 <tomayac> andy: agreement: on all issues...
Andy Seaborne: agreement: on all issues... ←
15:13:38 <tomayac> ...except for one
...except for one ←
15:13:39 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0000.html Andy's email
Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0000.html Andy's email ←
15:14:01 <tomayac> eric: wishes to add a feature into turtle to allow prefixing of names
Eric Prud'hommeaux: wishes to add a feature into turtle to allow prefixing of names ←
15:14:13 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Possible_extension_to_Turtle
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Possible_extension_to_Turtle ←
15:14:50 <AndyS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html
Andy Seaborne: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html ←
15:15:09 <tomayac> eric: getting past encoding limitations in pnames
Eric Prud'hommeaux: getting past encoding limitations in pnames ←
15:15:20 <mischat> go on ...
Mischa Tuffield: go on ... ←
15:15:22 <ericP> _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .
Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 . ←
15:15:41 <ericP> _ :Eve :says "Éric says \u0022Hi\u0022" .
Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve :says "Éric says \u0022Hi\u0022" . ←
15:16:43 <sandro> AndyS
Sandro Hawke: AndyS ←
15:17:08 <tomayac> eric: escaping not part of the grammar
Eric Prud'hommeaux: escaping not part of the grammar ←
15:17:23 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:17:27 <gavinc> +q
Gavin Carothers: +q ←
15:17:33 <tomayac> eric: productions of local names to include escape productions
Eric Prud'hommeaux: productions of local names to include escape productions ←
15:17:50 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:17:52 <tomayac> ivan: why this difference?
Ivan Herman: why this difference? ←
15:18:09 <AZ> zakim, Russel is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, Russel is me ←
15:18:09 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:18:42 <tomayac> andy: at the moment as turtle is defined, commas disallowed in prefix names
Andy Seaborne: at the moment as turtle is defined, commas disallowed in prefix names ←
15:18:58 <tomayac> eric: disagrees
Eric Prud'hommeaux: disagrees ←
15:19:10 <tomayac> andy: that would be a change to SPARQL
Andy Seaborne: that would be a change to SPARQL ←
15:19:57 <tomayac> andy: current form does not allow \u escapings
Andy Seaborne: current form does not allow \u escapings ←
15:20:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:20:21 <davidwood> ack gavinc
David Wood: ack gavinc ←
15:20:24 <webr3> zakim, i am IPcaller
Nathan Rixham: zakim, i am IPcaller ←
15:20:24 <Zakim> ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller] ←
15:20:38 <tomayac> gavin: thinks that ntriples has local names
Gavin Carothers: thinks that ntriples has local names ←
15:20:57 <tomayac> andy: label for a bnode has to be decided on a per-output basis
Andy Seaborne: label for a bnode has to be decided on a per-output basis ←
15:21:15 <tomayac> andy: asks eric: are you happy w/ the outher proosals
Andy Seaborne: asks eric: are you happy w/ the outher proosals ←
15:21:18 <tomayac> eric: ACK
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ACK ←
15:21:24 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:21:32 <tomayac> andy: any other issues?
Andy Seaborne: any other issues? ←
15:21:37 <tomayac> -- silence --
-- silence -- ←
15:21:42 <tomayac> no other issues
no other issues ←
15:21:59 <tomayac> andy: on what basis do we take the decision?
Andy Seaborne: on what basis do we take the decision? ←
15:22:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:22:28 <tomayac> eric: on the prefix nodes issues: sorry it cant be done
Eric Prud'hommeaux: on the prefix nodes issues: sorry it cant be done ←
15:22:30 <LeeF> I think it's a "nice feature to have", but I'm (of course) wary of changing SPARQL right now because of the impact on implementors
Lee Feigenbaum: I think it's a "nice feature to have", but I'm (of course) wary of changing SPARQL right now because of the impact on implementors ←
15:23:03 <SteveH> +1 to LeeF
Steve Harris: +1 to LeeF ←
15:23:23 <PatH> There is a dragon on the call breathing fire.
Patrick Hayes: There is a dragon on the call breathing fire. ←
15:23:39 <tomayac> eric: no new prefix for each row in the db
Eric Prud'hommeaux: no new prefix for each row in the db ←
15:23:42 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
Mischa Tuffield: zakim, who is making noise ? ←
15:23:44 <davidwood> zakim, who is speaking?
David Wood: zakim, who is speaking? ←
15:23:45 <tomayac> eric: just use the same prefix
Eric Prud'hommeaux: just use the same prefix ←
15:23:52 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (83%), EricP (4%)
Zakim IRC Bot: mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (83%), EricP (4%) ←
15:24:03 <Zakim> davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), davidwood (5%), AZ (8%), EricP (22%)
Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), davidwood (5%), AZ (8%), EricP (22%) ←
15:24:12 <PatH> sounds like LeeF is right, this is neat feature but not really essential. I suggest not worth changing sparql for.
Patrick Hayes: sounds like LeeF is right, this is neat feature but not really essential. I suggest not worth changing sparql for. ←
15:24:14 <tomayac> andy: need a decision mechanism
Andy Seaborne: need a decision mechanism ←
15:24:22 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
15:24:30 <AZ> zakim, mute me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me ←
15:24:30 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted ←
15:24:39 <tomayac> ivan: question is: what is the most, what is the least destructive answer?
Ivan Herman: question is: what is the most, what is the least destructive answer? ←
15:25:00 <tomayac> ivan seems gone
ivan seems gone ←
15:25:08 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:25:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, AZ (muted), Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, AZ (muted), Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall, ←
15:25:11 <Zakim> ... sandro, Russell, cmatheus, zwu2, [Garlik], [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, Russell, cmatheus, zwu2, [Garlik], [IPcaller] ←
15:25:12 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat ←
15:25:19 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute az
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute az ←
15:25:19 <Zakim> AZ should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should no longer be muted ←
15:25:27 <gavinc> -q
Gavin Carothers: -q ←
15:25:39 <tomayac> lee: understands the use case
Lee Feigenbaum: understands the use case ←
15:25:45 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:25:47 <tomayac> lee: probably a good thing to include
Lee Feigenbaum: probably not a good thing to include during SPARQL last call ←
15:25:50 <MacTed> (AZ muted, and ivan went quiet ... ivan isn't in the names list ... I'm guessing AZ took ivan's line)
Ted Thibodeau: (AZ muted, and ivan went quiet ... ivan isn't in the names list ... I'm guessing AZ took ivan's line) ←
15:25:55 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:25:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:25:57 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:26:10 <tomayac> ivan is back
ivan is back ←
15:26:19 <davidwood> s/probably a good thing to include/probably not a good thing to include during SPARQL last call/
15:26:48 <LeeF> Also mildly disruptive with existing turtle and sparql implementations
Lee Feigenbaum: Also mildly disruptive with existing turtle and sparql implementations ←
15:26:57 <tomayac> ivan: not only last call, but also deployed sparql versions
Ivan Herman: not only last call, but also deployed sparql versions ←
15:26:59 <LeeF> Both things -- disruptive to SPARQL schedule, and somewhat disruptive to implementations
Lee Feigenbaum: Both things -- disruptive to SPARQL schedule, and somewhat disruptive to implementations ←
15:27:14 <PatH> Maybe should ask, if we DONT do this, how bad would that be?
Patrick Hayes: Maybe should ask, if we DONT do this, how bad would that be? ←
15:27:29 <tomayac> eric: not convinced that it's true
Eric Prud'hommeaux: not convinced that it's true ←
15:27:57 <MacTed> 1.1 (or later) have been known to break (or at least, go beyond) 1.0 ...
Ted Thibodeau: 1.1 (or later) have been known to break (or at least, go beyond) 1.0 ... ←
15:28:06 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:28:12 <PatH> Everyone sees to agree this would be kind of neat, but... So what is the but... for NOT doing it.
Patrick Hayes: Everyone sees to agree this would be kind of neat, but... So what is the but... for NOT doing it. ←
15:28:15 <MacTed> BASIC 2.0 commands broke in BASIC 1.0 interpreters... :-)
Ted Thibodeau: BASIC 2.0 commands broke in BASIC 1.0 interpreters... :-) ←
15:28:27 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:28:52 <tomayac> andy: argument for not doing it: its not currently in turtle and in sparql. how much need is out there?
Andy Seaborne: argument for not doing it: its not currently in turtle and in sparql. how much need is out there? ←
15:29:03 <PatH> OK, thanks.
Patrick Hayes: OK, thanks. ←
15:29:04 <tomayac> andy: whats the cost. would it cause a new last call?
Andy Seaborne: whats the cost. would it cause a new last call? ←
15:29:12 <tomayac> pat: we have a choice:
Patrick Hayes: we have a choice: ←
15:29:28 <tomayac> pat: if we were to include it in turtle, we'd break the sparql turtle alignment
David Wood: if we were to include it in turtle, we'd break the sparql turtle alignment ←
15:29:45 <AndyS> s/pat/davidwood/
15:29:46 <mischat> s/pat/davidwood/
15:29:48 <tomayac> pat: do we want to break sparql-turtle alignment?
David Wood: do we want to break sparql-turtle alignment? ←
15:29:56 <mischat> s/pat/davidwood/
15:30:05 <PatH> OK, seems to me that sparql/turtle alignment is worth quite a lot of loss of neat-o features.
Patrick Hayes: OK, seems to me that sparql/turtle alignment is worth quite a lot of loss of neat-o features. ←
15:30:06 <tomayac> eric: no
Eric Prud'hommeaux: no ←
15:30:10 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:30:26 <tomayac> ivan: having a problem w/ sparql turtle alignment would be a mistake
Ivan Herman: having a problem w/ sparql turtle alignment would be a mistake ←
15:30:38 <tomayac> ivan: sandro very diplomatic proposal:
Ivan Herman: sandro very diplomatic proposal: ←
15:30:59 <tomayac> ivan: if sparql goes to last call => sparql can make it a pending feature
Ivan Herman: if sparql goes to last call => sparql can make it a pending feature ←
15:31:04 <AndyS> if programmatic constructed, then the system writer gets it right anyway
Andy Seaborne: if programmatic constructed, then the system writer gets it right anyway ←
15:31:15 <tomayac> ivan: if feedback on last call very negative => can be taken out
Ivan Herman: if feedback on last call very negative => can be taken out ←
15:31:33 <PatH> Ivan, you should be in the State Department.
Patrick Hayes: Ivan, you should be in the State Department. ←
15:31:39 <PatH> +1 Ivan
Patrick Hayes: +1 Ivan ←
15:31:41 <tomayac> ivan: make it clear that its an issue in pimplementations, and see what the feedback is
Ivan Herman: make it clear that its an issue in pimplementations, and see what the feedback is ←
15:32:18 <tomayac> davidwood: happy with it
David Wood: happy with it ←
15:32:27 <tomayac> lee: implementers are here. opinions?
Lee Feigenbaum: implementers are here. opinions? ←
15:33:05 <tomayac> lee: happy, with the sparql hat on
Lee Feigenbaum: happy, with the sparql hat on ←
15:33:25 <PatH> sparqly pimplementors unite!
Patrick Hayes: sparqly pimplementors unite! ←
15:33:50 <ericP> <PN_CHARS_BASE> |= UCHAR
Eric Prud'hommeaux: <PN_CHARS_BASE> |= UCHAR ←
15:33:50 <LeeF> LeeF: I'm ok with it, because I'm ok with not being 100% conformant, but I wouldn't run off to make this change in my code
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm ok with it, because I'm ok with not being 100% conformant, but I wouldn't run off to make this change in my code [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:34:07 <tomayac> ivan: to be fair, other changes for turtle would require turtle parsers to go thru an update circle
Ivan Herman: to be fair, other changes for turtle would require turtle parsers to go thru an update circle ←
15:34:14 <SteveH> I think this is less invasive than the \u escape ordering thing
Steve Harris: I think this is less invasive than the \u escape ordering thing ←
15:34:21 <SteveH> but I'm not a parser guy
Steve Harris: but I'm not a parser guy ←
15:34:57 <tomayac> andy: required update is for strings and iris
Andy Seaborne: required update is for strings and iris ←
15:35:05 <tomayac> andy: believed not to affect many people
Andy Seaborne: believed not to affect many people ←
15:35:14 <ericP> _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .
Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 . ←
15:35:25 <tomayac> eric: in the sense of doesnt happen often enough?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: in the sense of doesnt happen often enough? ←
15:35:30 <tomayac> andy: yep, in this sense
Andy Seaborne: yep, in this sense ←
15:35:50 <tomayac> david: you think we make any progress on this, andy? or should we move on?
David Wood: you think we make any progress on this, andy? or should we move on? ←
15:35:56 <tomayac> andy: think we should move on
Andy Seaborne: think we should move on ←
15:36:03 <gavinc> as turtle implementor, I'm with Eric. Easy change to make.
Gavin Carothers: as turtle implementor, I'm with Eric. Easy change to make. ←
15:36:07 <tomayac> ivan: can we agree on other issues to be solved?
Ivan Herman: can we agree on other issues to be solved? ←
15:36:27 <tomayac> andy: yes, i can draft a resolution
Andy Seaborne: yes, i can draft a resolution ←
15:37:00 <tomayac> eric: one of the points in eric's mail was: escaping should not be in the grammar, eric says: it should be in the grammar
Eric Prud'hommeaux: one of the points in eric's mail was: escaping should not be in the grammar, eric says: it should be in the grammar ←
15:37:14 <tomayac> andy: i took whatever was in the current doc
Andy Seaborne: i took whatever was in the current doc ←
15:37:21 <ivan> s/poiints/points/
Ivan Herman: s/poiints/points/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
15:37:34 <AndyS> PROPOSED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing (point 8)
PROPOSED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing (point 8) ←
15:37:48 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:37:55 <zwu2> +1
15:38:00 <pchampin> +1
15:38:04 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:38:05 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:38:07 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:38:08 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:38:11 <tomayac> objections to andy's proposal?
objections to andy's proposal? ←
15:38:13 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
15:38:15 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
15:38:22 <tomayac> RESOLVED: no objections. propsal accepted
RESOLVED: no objections. propsal accepted ←
15:38:26 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:38:30 <SteveH> abstain
Steve Harris: abstain ←
15:38:55 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:38:58 <ivan> RESOLVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing
RESOLVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing ←
15:39:21 <tomayac> thanks for the productive discussion
thanks for the productive discussion ←
15:39:24 <tomayac> next topic:
next topic: ←
15:39:35 <tomayac> Topic: Revisiting the post-poned ISSUES
15:39:52 <tomayac> davidwood: let's try to resolve whatever is possible via phone
David Wood: let's try to resolve whatever is possible via phone ←
15:39:57 <tomayac> davidwood: let's skip others
David Wood: let's skip others ←
15:40:02 <tomayac> davidwood: clean up easy ones
David Wood: clean up easy ones ←
15:40:18 <davidwood> subtopic: ISSUE-42: Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct"
15:40:18 <trackbot> ISSUE-42 Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-42 Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" notes added ←
15:40:28 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42 ←
15:40:44 <tomayac> looking at issue 42
15:40:45 <ivan> ISSUE-42?
15:40:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-42 -- Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-42 -- Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" -- raised ←
15:40:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42 ←
15:41:26 <tomayac> davidwood: please check the issue and edit it if need be
David Wood: please check the issue and edit it if need be ←
15:41:28 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:41:30 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
15:41:36 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:41:37 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
15:41:37 <pchampin> +1
15:41:41 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
15:41:41 <zwu2> +1
15:41:45 <tomayac> davidwood: objections to closing ISSUE-42?
David Wood: objections to closing ISSUE-42? ←
15:41:47 <gavinc> +0 (no idea what the issue was)
Gavin Carothers: +0 (no idea what the issue was) ←
15:42:12 <tomayac> davidwood: it's in the charter to clean left-overs
David Wood: it's in the charter to clean left-overs ←
15:42:15 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:42:17 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:42:26 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-42
RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-42 ←
15:42:37 <PatH> q
Patrick Hayes: q ←
15:42:37 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-43?
15:42:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-43 -- Revisit "Suggestion that Qnames should be allowed as values for attributes such as rdf:about" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-43 -- Revisit "Suggestion that Qnames should be allowed as values for attributes such as rdf:about" -- raised ←
15:42:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/43
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/43 ←
15:42:45 <tomayac> next ISSUE-43
15:43:01 <webr3> +1 to resolve/close
Nathan Rixham: +1 to resolve/close ←
15:43:04 <LeeF> +1
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 ←
15:43:04 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:43:06 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:43:08 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:43:10 <SteveH> +1
Steve Harris: +1 ←
15:43:12 <AndyS> +1
Andy Seaborne: +1 ←
15:43:12 <gavinc> +1 to close
Gavin Carothers: +1 to close ←
15:43:15 <zwu2> +0
15:43:20 <tomayac> theere was agreement on email to close this ISSUE-43
theere was agreement on email to close this ISSUE-43 ←
15:43:21 <PatH> +0
Patrick Hayes: +0 ←
15:43:23 <ericP> +0
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0 ←
15:43:23 <pchampin> +0
15:43:28 <Souri> -0
Souripriya Das: -0 ←
15:43:29 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-43
RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-43 ←
15:43:31 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-44?
15:43:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-44 -- Revisit "The RDF XML syntax cannot represent all possible Property URI's" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-44 -- Revisit "The RDF XML syntax cannot represent all possible Property URI's" -- raised ←
15:43:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/44
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/44 ←
15:43:49 <tomayac> next ISSUE-44
15:43:52 <webr3> +1 to close, can't see any reason to continue something that won't change
Nathan Rixham: +1 to close, can't see any reason to continue something that won't change ←
15:43:59 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:44:02 <LeeF> +1
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 ←
15:44:03 <SteveH> +1 to close
Steve Harris: +1 to close ←
15:44:05 <AZ> +1 to close
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to close ←
15:44:09 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:44:11 <AlexHall> +1
15:44:14 <zwu2> +0
15:44:19 <tomayac> davidwood: seems agreement to close it, as rdf/xml wont never ever change
David Wood: seems agreement to close it, as rdf/xml wont never ever change ←
15:44:23 <AndyS> +1 to close with no change
Andy Seaborne: +1 to close with no change ←
15:44:31 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:44:32 <ericP> +0
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0 ←
15:44:41 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:44:41 <gavinc> +1 close
Gavin Carothers: +1 close ←
15:44:44 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
15:44:50 <tomayac> davidwood: correction: minor changes to rdf/xml might happen. sorry
David Wood: correction: minor changes to rdf/xml might happen. sorry ←
15:44:51 <tomayac> RESOLVED: ISSUE-44 closed.
15:45:04 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-45?
15:45:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-45 -- Revisit "The syntax needs a more convenient way to express the reification of a statement" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-45 -- Revisit "The syntax needs a more convenient way to express the reification of a statement" -- raised ←
15:45:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/45
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/45 ←
15:45:05 <webr3> +1 close as a duplicate (on issue-25)
Nathan Rixham: +1 close as a duplicate (on ISSUE-25) ←
15:45:10 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-44 closed
David Wood: ISSUE-44 closed ←
15:45:21 <tomayac> davidwood: next ISSUE-45
David Wood: next ISSUE-45 ←
15:45:41 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:45:41 <SteveH> +1, close a dup
Steve Harris: +1, close a dup ←
15:45:43 <gavinc> +1 close as duplicate
Gavin Carothers: +1 close as duplicate ←
15:45:45 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
15:45:45 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:45:45 <zwu2> +1
15:45:46 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-45 is duplicate of ISSUE-25 => close it
David Wood: ISSUE-45 is duplicate of ISSUE-25 => close it ←
15:45:48 <OlivierCorby> +1
Olivier Corby: +1 ←
15:45:50 <AZ> +1 close as duplicate
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 close as duplicate ←
15:45:53 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:45:56 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-45 closed
RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-45 closed ←
15:46:04 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-46?
15:46:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- Revisit "Should RDF have a mechanism for declaring two uri's to be equivalent?" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-46 -- Revisit "Should RDF have a mechanism for declaring two uri's to be equivalent?" -- raised ←
15:46:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/46
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/46 ←
15:46:07 <webr3> -1 leave open for discussion later
Nathan Rixham: -1 leave open for discussion later ←
15:46:08 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-46
15:46:14 <PatH> Sugfgest we keep this one open for now.
Patrick Hayes: Sugfgest we keep this one open for now. ←
15:46:19 <gavinc> -0 leave open
Gavin Carothers: -0 leave open ←
15:46:27 <tomayac> davidwood: leave it open for next workshop
David Wood: leave it open for next workshop ←
15:46:27 <SteveH> close, we have owl:sameAs
Steve Harris: close, we have owl:sameAs ←
15:46:29 <AZ> +0
Antoine Zimmermann: +0 ←
15:46:36 <zwu2> close, we have owl:sameAs
Zhe Wu: close, we have owl:sameAs ←
15:46:43 <cmatheus> +1 leave open
Christopher Matheus: +1 leave open ←
15:46:46 <ericP> abstain
Eric Prud'hommeaux: abstain ←
15:46:47 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: enough DISagreement to leave this open
RESOLVED: davidwood: enough DISagreement to leave this open ←
15:46:48 <ivan> -0
Ivan Herman: -0 ←
15:46:58 <mbrunati> 0 leave open
Matteo Brunati: 0 leave open ←
15:46:59 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-47?
15:46:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-47 -- Revisit "RDF embedded in XHTML and other XML documents is hard to validate" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-47 -- Revisit "RDF embedded in XHTML and other XML documents is hard to validate" -- raised ←
15:46:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/47
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/47 ←
15:47:04 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-47
15:47:08 <webr3> +1/0 don't care
Nathan Rixham: +1/0 don't care ←
15:47:13 <SteveH> don't care
Steve Harris: don't care ←
15:47:25 <ivan> +1 to close
Ivan Herman: +1 to close ←
15:47:34 <FabGandon> out of scope
Fabien Gandon: out of scope ←
15:47:35 <zwu2> +1 close
15:47:36 <AZ> +1 to close
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to close ←
15:47:38 <sandro> close, but with a better comment.
Sandro Hawke: close, but with a better comment. ←
15:47:38 <tomayac> davidwood: no objections to close it
David Wood: no objections to close it ←
15:47:41 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:47:41 <mbrunati> +1 close
Matteo Brunati: +1 close ←
15:47:43 <pchampin> out of scope
Pierre-Antoine Champin: out of scope ←
15:47:47 <PatH> does i tmean the RDF is hard to validate or the XML is?
Patrick Hayes: does i tmean the RDF is hard to validate or the XML is? ←
15:47:48 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-47 closed
RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-47 closed ←
15:47:54 <cmatheus> +1 close
Christopher Matheus: +1 close ←
15:48:00 <PatH> +1 close out of scope
Patrick Hayes: +1 close out of scope ←
15:48:01 <tomayac> davidwood: validation is out of scope of this wg
David Wood: validation is out of scope of this wg ←
15:48:04 <gavinc> +1 close with validation out of scope
Gavin Carothers: +1 close with validation out of scope ←
15:48:09 <sandro> +1 "Close -- validation is out of scope for this WG"
Sandro Hawke: +1 "Close -- validation is out of scope for this WG" ←
15:48:18 <mischat> +1 to close
Mischa Tuffield: +1 to close ←
15:48:23 <PatH> listen to the worms...
Patrick Hayes: listen to the worms... ←
15:48:27 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-48?
15:48:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-48 -- Revisit "The design of the RDF Model collection classes exhibit various awkward features. Might these be augmented with a 'better' design?" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-48 -- Revisit "The design of the RDF Model collection classes exhibit various awkward features. Might these be augmented with a 'better' design?" -- raised ←
15:48:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/48
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/48 ←
15:48:34 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-48
15:48:48 <webr3> +0
Nathan Rixham: +0 ←
15:48:57 <tomayac> davidwood: danbri marked this one as a duplicate
David Wood: danbri marked this one as a duplicate ←
15:49:34 <tomayac> davidwood: proposal to close it as duplicate to ISSUE-24
David Wood: proposal to close it as duplicate to ISSUE-24 ←
15:49:39 <gavinc> +0 close as duplicate of Issue-24?
Gavin Carothers: +0 close as duplicate of ISSUE-24? ←
15:49:51 <SteveH> not a dup of 24
Steve Harris: not a dup of 24 ←
15:49:53 <PatH> +q
Patrick Hayes: +q ←
15:50:05 <tomayac> andy: not a duplicate of ISSUE-24
Andy Seaborne: not a duplicate of ISSUE-24 ←
15:50:12 <tomayac> andy: its about containers
Andy Seaborne: its about containers ←
15:50:22 <tomayac> ISSUE-48 is about collections
ISSUE-48 is about collections ←
15:51:28 <tomayac> patH: couldn't follow, sorry
Patrick Hayes: couldn't follow, sorry ←
15:51:37 <SteveH> "The use of special property names (_1, _2, etc.) can really be quite awkward for expressing ordering. It means that it can be very difficult to add new members to a collection after the event"
Steve Harris: "The use of special property names (_1, _2, etc.) can really be quite awkward for expressing ordering. It means that it can be very difficult to add new members to a collection after the event" ←
15:51:42 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
15:51:49 <tomayac> path: seems to be a suggestion to put linked lists into rdf. done by the prev. wg
Patrick Hayes: seems to be a suggestion to put linked lists into rdf. done by the prev. wg ←
15:51:56 <tomayac> path: seems an archaic left-over
Patrick Hayes: seems an archaic left-over ←
15:51:58 <mischat> SteveH: is speaking now
Steve Harris: is speaking now [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ] ←
15:52:07 <tomayac> steveh: not true
Steve Harris: not true ←
15:53:19 <tomayac> davidwood: want to continue this discussion on the list?
David Wood: want to continue this discussion on the list? ←
15:53:47 <tomayac> steveharris: lists of things done the wrong way twice
Steve Harris: lists of things done the wrong way twice ←
15:54:06 <gavinc> Anyone have ideas on making better lists?
Gavin Carothers: Anyone have ideas on making better lists? ←
15:54:10 <tomayac> path: close it and throw it away
Patrick Hayes: close it and throw it away ←
15:54:12 <webr3> +1 to path
Nathan Rixham: +1 to path ←
15:54:16 <ericP> +1 to PatH's dicideratum
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to PatH's dicideratum ←
15:54:24 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:54:28 <zwu2> +1
15:54:29 <FabGandon> +1
Fabien Gandon: +1 ←
15:54:30 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
15:54:30 <tomayac> PROPOSED: davidwood: proposal to close ISSUE-48 as overcome by events. objections?
PROPOSED: davidwood: proposal to close ISSUE-48 as overcome by events. objections? ←
15:54:31 <pchampin> +1
15:54:31 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
15:54:32 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:54:33 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:54:33 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:54:33 <mischat> +!
Mischa Tuffield: +! ←
15:54:37 <mischat> +1
Mischa Tuffield: +1 ←
15:54:42 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
15:55:05 <AndyS> Add them as a first class data object, not encode in triples. Its the encoding (and possible mis-encoding) that cause some of the pain.
Andy Seaborne: Add them as a first class data object, not encode in triples. Its the encoding (and possible mis-encoding) that cause some of the pain. ←
15:55:09 <ivan> ISSUE-49?
15:55:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 -- Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-49 -- Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" -- raised ←
15:55:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/49
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/49 ←
15:55:10 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-48 closed
RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-48 closed ←
15:55:13 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS ←
15:55:34 <zwu2> would be nice to have it :)
Zhe Wu: would be nice to have it :) ←
15:55:35 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-49: literals as subjects can't be closed
David Wood: ISSUE-49: literals as subjects can't be closed ←
15:55:35 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-49 Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" notes added ←
15:55:35 <webr3> q : could I create an RDF serialization with literal subjects and defer to the rdf semantics?
Nathan Rixham: q : could I create an RDF serialization with literal subjects and defer to the rdf semantics? ←
15:55:36 <PatH> Andy: I agree, buit that goes way beyond issue-48.
Andy Seaborne: I agree, buit that goes way beyond ISSUE-48. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ] ←
15:55:55 <tomayac> davidwood: can't be considered closed
David Wood: can't be considered closed ←
15:55:56 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:55:59 <PatH> Yes, the semantics is fine with literal subjects.
Patrick Hayes: Yes, the semantics is fine with literal subjects. ←
15:56:05 <PatH> with literal
Patrick Hayes: with literal ←
15:56:09 <tomayac> andy: happy to postpone
Andy Seaborne: happy to postpone ←
15:56:10 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:56:15 <webr3> so it's in "rdf" but not in the official serializations
Nathan Rixham: so it's in "rdf" but not in the official serializations ←
15:56:19 <tomayac> andy: rdf api allows literals as subjects
Andy Seaborne: rdf api allows literals as subjects ←
15:56:54 <tomayac> ivan: status of rdf api? first public working draft hopefully next week
Ivan Herman: status of rdf api? first public working draft hopefully next week ←
15:57:06 <PatH> There was a chorus of disapproval for literal subjects at the initial workshop, mostly from developers who didnt want to alter lagacy code.
Patrick Hayes: There was a chorus of disapproval for literal subjects at the initial workshop, mostly from developers who didnt want to alter lagacy code. ←
15:57:08 <tomayac> davidwood: for the moment we cant do anything about it
David Wood: for the moment we cant do anything about it ←
15:57:09 <webr3> it's now "rdf-interfaces" which contains it - rdf-api is a diff spec
Nathan Rixham: it's now "rdf-interfaces" which contains it - rdf-api is a diff spec ←
15:57:15 <PatH> legacy
Patrick Hayes: legacy ←
15:57:18 <webr3> +1 to continue
Nathan Rixham: +1 to continue ←
15:57:38 <AndyS> +1 to PatH - legacy is now a real issue (and that's good)
Andy Seaborne: +1 to PatH - legacy is now a real issue (and that's good) ←
15:57:38 <tomayac> tomayac: rdf api is now rdf interfaces
Thomas Steiner: rdf api is now rdf interfaces ←
15:57:41 <mischat> literal as subjects doesn't seem very webbie to me, but anyways ...
Mischa Tuffield: literal as subjects doesn't seem very webbie to me, but anyways ... ←
15:57:52 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-50?
15:57:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-50 -- Revisit "Request to allow b-nodes as property labels" -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-50 -- Revisit "Request to allow b-nodes as property labels" -- raised ←
15:57:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/50
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/50 ←
15:58:00 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-50
15:58:09 <tomayac> davidwood: out of charter
David Wood: out of charter ←
15:58:20 <PatH> Sorry to go back, but I just noticed something about issue-42 that might be slightly important. The POWDER mechanism uses rdf:bag, which me therefor have to be careful not to deprecate.
Patrick Hayes: Sorry to go back, but I just noticed something about ISSUE-42 that might be slightly important. The POWDER mechanism uses rdf:bag, which me therefor have to be careful not to deprecate. ←
15:58:37 <webr3> rdf-interfaces again allows bnode predicates
Nathan Rixham: rdf-interfaces again allows bnode predicates ←
15:59:06 <tomayac> davidwood: should we leave it open? or postpone?
David Wood: should we leave it open? or postpone? ←
15:59:17 <PatH> FWIW< again the semantics is OK with bnode property labels, but some of the entailments might raise eyebrows.
Patrick Hayes: FWIW< again the semantics is OK with bnode property labels, but some of the entailments might raise eyebrows. ←
15:59:20 <webr3> are we goign to discuss further? if nto postpone
Nathan Rixham: are we goign to discuss further? if nto postpone ←
15:59:29 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-50 postponed
RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-50 postponed ←
15:59:34 <FabGandon> +1 postpone
Fabien Gandon: +1 postpone ←
15:59:35 <mischat> postpone please ....
Mischa Tuffield: postpone please .... ←
15:59:37 <pchampin> +1 postpone
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 postpone ←
15:59:37 <SteveH> +1 to postpone
Steve Harris: +1 to postpone ←
15:59:38 <Souri> +1 to postpone
Souripriya Das: +1 to postpone ←
15:59:42 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:59:42 <PatH> COWARDS!!
Patrick Hayes: COWARDS!! ←
15:59:43 <zwu2> +1 to postpone
15:59:44 <gavinc> +1 postpone
Gavin Carothers: +1 postpone ←
15:59:45 <webr3> PatH, ty for confirmation, I don't mind raised eyebrows :)
Nathan Rixham: PatH, ty for confirmation, I don't mind raised eyebrows :) ←
15:59:45 <mbrunati> +1 to postpone
Matteo Brunati: +1 to postpone ←
15:59:45 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:59:46 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
15:59:47 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
15:59:57 <ericP> +1 to cowering in fear
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to cowering in fear ←
16:00:29 <gavinc> RDF Interfaces :\
Gavin Carothers: RDF Interfaces :\ ←
16:00:37 <mischat> as in rdf-interfaces has bnode properties and literal subjects
Mischa Tuffield: as in rdf-interfaces has bnode properties and literal subjects ←
16:00:54 <tomayac> ivan: this issue is different than the previous one
Ivan Herman: this issue is different than the previous one ←
16:01:11 <webr3> RDF interface implementations will support it.. rdf semantics do to, serializations don't - doesn't matter, this is behind the "public interface"
Nathan Rixham: RDF interface implementations will support it.. rdf semantics do to, serializations don't - doesn't matter, this is behind the "public interface" ←
16:01:15 <tomayac> ivan: you might have bnodes as predicates
Ivan Herman: you might have bnodes as predicates ←
16:01:19 <webr3> +1 to what ivan is saying
Nathan Rixham: +1 to what ivan is saying ←
16:01:28 <PatH> +1 to Ivan
Patrick Hayes: +1 to Ivan ←
16:01:31 <zwu2> +1 to Ivan
16:01:54 <tomayac> ivan: there was a huge discussion in the rdf applications wg
Ivan Herman: there was a huge discussion in the rdf applications wg ←
16:01:57 <PatH> This is a general issue, BTW, it also bears on literal subjects.
Patrick Hayes: This is a general issue, BTW, it also bears on literal subjects. ←
16:02:15 <tomayac> ivan: bnodes as predicates is good in APIs, because if not, implementations might have problems
Ivan Herman: bnodes as predicates is good in APIs in APIs, because if not, implementations might have problems ←
16:02:29 <pchampin> s/is good/is good in APIs/
16:02:44 <webr3> the needs for serializing RDF are different to the needs for workign with RDF - we need to accept that generally
Nathan Rixham: the needs for serializing RDF are different to the needs for workign with RDF - we need to accept that generally ←
16:03:05 <AndyS> Is there a serialization API?
Andy Seaborne: Is there a serialization API? ←
16:03:12 <tomayac> ivan: if it's for me, we can close this issue
Ivan Herman: if it's for me, we can close this issue ←
16:03:58 <PatH> It will damage the DL/Full boundary in OWL, for sure.
Patrick Hayes: It will damage the DL/Full boundary in OWL, for sure. ←
16:04:01 <tomayac> ivan: dont want to go down that route
Ivan Herman: dont want to go down that route ←
16:04:03 <webr3> AndyS, roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)
Nathan Rixham: AndyS, roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations) ←
16:04:32 <tomayac> david: if we postpone it goes to a later wg
David Wood: if we postpone it goes to a later wg ←
16:04:37 <AndyS> webr3, pointer?
Andy Seaborne: webr3, pointer? ←
16:04:59 <zwu2> q+
16:05:03 <webr3> AndyS, http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/Overview.html
Nathan Rixham: AndyS, http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/Overview.html ←
16:05:03 <PatH> LOL
Patrick Hayes: LOL ←
16:05:25 <tomayac> davidwood: we're postponing already, leaving leftovers, just like the previous wg did
David Wood: we're postponing already, leaving leftovers, just like the previous wg did ←
16:05:31 <webr3> can we address it properly, to say semantics allows X serializations are advised to allow Y (Reasons) then CLOSE ?
Nathan Rixham: can we address it properly, to say semantics allows X serializations are advised to allow Y (Reasons) then CLOSE ? ←
16:05:41 <tomayac> davidwood: if we close, we need to say why
David Wood: if we close, we need to say why ←
16:06:04 <AndyS> webr3, pointer to serilization? I only see about parser using serialize
Andy Seaborne: webr3, pointer to serilization? I only see about parser using serialize ←
16:06:13 <tomayac> davidwood: saying it is out of scope is way different than closing
David Wood: saying it is out of scope is way different than closing ←
16:06:23 <tomayac> ivan: every wg may reopen closed issues
Ivan Herman: every wg may reopen closed issues ←
16:06:28 <webr3> AndyS, you've confused me - you're looking for?
Nathan Rixham: AndyS, you've confused me - you're looking for? ←
16:06:42 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:06:52 <PatH> Ivan, you read my mind...
Patrick Hayes: Ivan, you read my mind... ←
16:06:52 <davidwood> ack zwu
David Wood: ack zwu ←
16:07:15 <PatH> Separate the issues!
Patrick Hayes: Separate the issues! ←
16:07:17 <tomayac> zwu: how many people would truly object to have literals as subjects and bnodes as predicates
Zhe Wu: how many people would truly object to have literals as subjects and bnodes as predicates ←
16:07:19 <SteveH> Garlik would object to both / either
Steve Harris: Garlik would object to both / either ←
16:07:22 <AndyS> A pointer to "roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)"
Andy Seaborne: A pointer to "roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)" ←
16:07:22 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Who would object to Liuteral Subjects
STRAWPOLL: Who would object to Liuteral Subjects ←
16:07:24 <LeeF> Quite possibly.
Lee Feigenbaum: Quite possibly. ←
16:07:27 <PatH> Im happy with literal subjects.
Patrick Hayes: Im happy with literal subjects. ←
16:07:28 <ivan> +0.5
Ivan Herman: +0.5 ←
16:07:32 <tomayac> zwu: straw poll, please
16:07:33 <webr3> v happy with +1
Nathan Rixham: v happy with +1 ←
16:07:44 <davidwood> I would possibly object to literal subjects - I have before
David Wood: I would possibly object to literal subjects - I have before ←
16:07:47 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Allow Literal Subjects
STRAWPOLL: Allow Literal Subjects ←
16:07:49 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
16:07:50 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
16:07:51 <SteveH> -1
Steve Harris: -1 ←
16:07:52 <cmatheus> +1
Christopher Matheus: +1 ←
16:07:52 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
16:07:52 <Souri> -1
Souripriya Das: -1 ←
16:07:53 <pchampin> +1
16:07:53 <LeeF> -0.8
Lee Feigenbaum: -0.8 ←
16:07:54 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:07:54 <mischat> -1
Mischa Tuffield: -1 ←
16:07:54 <mbrunati> +1
Matteo Brunati: +1 ←
16:07:56 <zwu2> +1
16:07:56 <davidwood> -0.5
David Wood: -0.5 ←
16:08:00 <ivan> -0.2
Ivan Herman: -0.2 ←
16:08:01 <OlivierCorby> -1
Olivier Corby: -1 ←
16:08:05 <gavinc> -0
Gavin Carothers: -0 ←
16:08:11 <AlexHall> +0
16:08:11 <LeeF> ivan + me == 1 full objection! :-)
Lee Feigenbaum: ivan + me == 1 full objection! :-) ←
16:08:22 <ericP> -1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -1 ←
16:08:25 <AndyS> Need to think more but quite possibility -1 (because the deployed system impact)
Andy Seaborne: Need to think more but quite possibility -1 (because the deployed system impact) ←
16:08:36 <FabGandon> -1
Fabien Gandon: -1 ←
16:08:40 <tomayac> zwu asked also for a straw poll on bnodes as predicates
zwu asked also for a straw poll on bnodes as predicates ←
16:08:59 <sandro> STRAWPOLL; Allow bnodes as predicates
Sandro Hawke: STRAWPOLL; Allow bnodes as predicates ←
16:09:01 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
16:09:01 <gavinc> +0
Gavin Carothers: +0 ←
16:09:02 <webr3> +1
Nathan Rixham: +1 ←
16:09:02 <ivan> -1
Ivan Herman: -1 ←
16:09:03 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
16:09:03 <zwu2> +1
16:09:03 <ericP> -1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -1 ←
16:09:04 <SteveH> -1
Steve Harris: -1 ←
16:09:04 <Souri> -1
Souripriya Das: -1 ←
16:09:06 <LeeF> -1
Lee Feigenbaum: -1 ←
16:09:06 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:09:06 <mischat> -1
Mischa Tuffield: -1 ←
16:09:08 <mbrunati> 0
Matteo Brunati: 0 ←
16:09:08 <cmatheus> +0
Christopher Matheus: +0 ←
16:09:08 <OlivierCorby> -1
Olivier Corby: -1 ←
16:09:14 <pchampin> +1
16:09:14 <FabGandon> -1
Fabien Gandon: -1 ←
16:09:15 <davidwood> +0
David Wood: +0 ←
16:09:25 <AndyS> -0.5
Andy Seaborne: -0.5 ←
16:09:31 <PatH> This is assuming that we have bnodes at all, of course.
Patrick Hayes: This is assuming that we have bnodes at all, of course. ←
16:09:43 <tomayac> zwu: one for the reasons are: if we are implementing an inference engine, it's way easier to allow, than disallow them
Zhe Wu: one for the reasons are: if we are implementing an inference engine, it's way easier to allow, than disallow them ←
16:09:44 <gavinc> +1 to PatH
Gavin Carothers: +1 to PatH ←
16:09:47 <MacTed> bnodes are useful in-process. they are nothing but trouble once you leave process.
Ted Thibodeau: bnodes are useful in-process. they are nothing but trouble once you leave process. ←
16:09:48 <davidwood> We have bnodes, Pat :)
David Wood: We have bnodes, Pat :) ←
16:09:55 <tomayac> ivan: -1 because it would invalidate many things in owl
Ivan Herman: -1 because it would invalidate many things in owl ←
16:09:57 <PatH> It depends what kind of inference engine uyou are tryuing to implement.
Patrick Hayes: It depends what kind of inference engine uyou are tryuing to implement. ←
16:10:14 <PatH> OWL-DL would prohibit it rigorously, so it would add a layer of checking to thier engines.
Patrick Hayes: OWL-DL would prohibit it rigorously, so it would add a layer of checking to thier engines. ←
16:10:28 <FabGandon> +1 to AndyS
Fabien Gandon: +1 to AndyS ←
16:10:30 <mischat> +1 AndyS
Mischa Tuffield: +1 AndyS ←
16:10:33 <PatH> +1 to andy
Patrick Hayes: +1 to andy ←
16:10:44 <tomayac> davidwood: back to ISSUE-50
David Wood: back to ISSUE-50 ←
16:10:47 <gavinc> +0.5 to AndyS ... sometimes it leaks
Gavin Carothers: +0.5 to AndyS ... sometimes it leaks ←
16:11:01 <tomayac> davidwood: open => discuss, close => out of scope, postponed: let others deal with it
David Wood: open => discuss, close => out of scope, postponed: let others deal with it ←
16:11:10 <webr3> if it's not an RDF WG level problem, who would it be a problem for?
Nathan Rixham: if it's not an RDF WG level problem, who would it be a problem for? ←
16:11:11 <AndyS> gavinc, where??? and I'll stop that!!!!!!
Andy Seaborne: gavinc, where??? and I'll stop that!!!!!! ←
16:11:14 <mischat> it is not webby to serialise statements suchs as ` "42" _ :�bnode1 _bnode2 . `
Mischa Tuffield: it is not webby to serialise statements suchs as ` "42" _ :�bnode1 _bnode2 . ` ←
16:11:29 <webr3> +1 leave raised
Nathan Rixham: +1 leave raised ←
16:11:35 <SteveH> close
Steve Harris: close ←
16:11:37 <tomayac> davidwood: significant disagreement
David Wood: significant disagreement ←
16:11:42 <zwu2> +1 postpone it
16:11:44 <tomayac> ivan: either close or postpone
Ivan Herman: either close or postpone ←
16:11:46 <LeeF> suggest close
Lee Feigenbaum: suggest close ←
16:11:47 <cmatheus> +1 leave raised
Christopher Matheus: +1 leave raised ←
16:11:52 <PatH> Its not in our charter, its a huge can of worms, it owuld screw up OWL (and probably RIF) relatkionships. Lets walk away from it.
Patrick Hayes: Its not in our charter, its a huge can of worms, it owuld screw up OWL (and probably RIF) relatkionships. Lets walk away from it. ←
16:12:00 <pchampin> +1 postpone
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 postpone ←
16:12:03 <FabGandon> out of scope
Fabien Gandon: out of scope ←
16:12:17 <Souri> +1 to postpone it
Souripriya Das: +1 to postpone it ←
16:12:26 <mbrunati> sorry guys i have to leave
Matteo Brunati: sorry guys i have to leave ←
16:12:29 <PatH> SO, leave it open and ignore it.
Patrick Hayes: SO, leave it open and ignore it. ←
16:12:30 <tomayac> davidwood: reads what people say on irc
David Wood: reads what people say on irc ←
16:12:34 <webr3> (I'm saying to leave open/raised until there's good text to close it with or to clarify around the issue)
Nathan Rixham: (I'm saying to leave open/raised until there's good text to close it with or to clarify around the issue) ←
16:12:39 <Zakim> -mbrunati
Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati ←
16:12:42 <LeeF> I don't think postponing is good. What's the point? If people find this useful and implement it, then we can standardize it in the future. But what's the point in continuing to say "meh"?
Lee Feigenbaum: I don't think postponing is good. What's the point? If people find this useful and implement it, then we can standardize it in the future. But what's the point in continuing to say "meh"? ←
16:13:16 <SteveH> just close it, a future group can open a new issue if it becomes desirable
Steve Harris: just close it, a future group can open a new issue if it becomes desirable ←
16:13:21 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: not enough agreement to postpone
RESOLVED: davidwood: not enough agreement to postpone ←
16:13:24 <LeeF> +1 SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 SteveH ←
16:13:34 <tomayac> davidwood: correction: not enough agreement
David Wood: correction: not enough agreement ←
16:13:35 <ivan> +1 SteveH
Ivan Herman: +1 SteveH ←
16:13:37 <LeeF> I'm ok with opening it and then closing it, as well.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm ok with opening it and then closing it, as well. ←
16:13:48 <LeeF> -1 to postponing it
Lee Feigenbaum: -1 to postponing it ←
16:13:52 <webr3> -1
Nathan Rixham: -1 ←
16:13:53 <cmatheus> -1
Christopher Matheus: -1 ←
16:13:53 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: postpone issue 50
STRAWPOLL: postpone ISSUE-50 ←
16:14:12 <PatH> is an open issue like an open sore?
Patrick Hayes: is an open issue like an open sore? ←
16:14:37 <LeeF> PatH, very very much so
Lee Feigenbaum: PatH, very very much so ←
16:14:57 <tomayac> davidwood: makes a chair decision to leave it raised. talk about it later
David Wood: makes a chair decision to leave it raised. talk about it later ←
16:15:09 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42
Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42 ←
16:15:14 <tomayac> davidwood: pat raised a question on issue 42
David Wood: pat raised a question on ISSUE-42 ←
16:15:33 <tomayac> path: rdf bag not much use
Patrick Hayes: rdf bag not much use ←
16:15:48 <tomayac> path: proposed to deprecate rdf bag
Patrick Hayes: proposed to deprecate rdf bag ←
16:16:10 <tomayac> davidwood: thinks we still could deprecate
David Wood: thinks we still could deprecate ←
16:16:51 <pchampin> I thought we already excluded the deprecation of rdf:Bag as it was widely used in RSS
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I thought we already excluded the deprecation of rdf:Bag as it was widely used in RSS ←
16:17:01 <pchampin> (vague memory of the F2F)
Pierre-Antoine Champin: (vague memory of the F2F) ←
16:17:08 <tomayac> davidwood: out of time for this call
David Wood: out of time for this call ←
16:17:09 <mischat> i recall that pchampin too
Mischa Tuffield: i recall that pchampin too ←
16:17:13 <SteveH> pchampin, yes
Steve Harris: pchampin, yes ←
16:17:20 <PatH> pcahmpin, good point. thnx.
Patrick Hayes: pcahmpin, good point. thnx. ←
16:17:20 <tomayac> davidwood: remaining issues => later call
David Wood: remaining issues => later call ←
16:17:26 <tomayac> Topic: davidwood: AOB?
16:17:33 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:17:34 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:17:35 <tomayac> davidwood: call adjourned
David Wood: call adjourned ←
16:17:36 <zwu2> bye
16:17:36 <mischat> would be nice to have the next f2f sorted
Mischa Tuffield: would be nice to have the next f2f sorted ←
16:17:36 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:17:37 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[Garlik] ←
16:17:37 <PatH> ivan, to handle that issue we discussed.
Patrick Hayes: ivan, to handle that issue we discussed. ←
16:17:37 <Zakim> -cmatheus
Zakim IRC Bot: -cmatheus ←
16:17:39 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:17:39 <mischat> doh
Mischa Tuffield: doh ←
16:17:41 <mischat> bye all
Mischa Tuffield: bye all ←
16:17:41 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:17:43 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
16:17:43 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:17:45 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:17:46 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:17:50 <Zakim> -Russell
Scribe problem: the name 'Russell' does not match any of the 44 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alex Hall Andy Seaborne Antoine Zimmermann Axel Polleres Christopher Matheus Dan Brickley David Wood Dickson Lukose Eric Prud'hommeaux Fabien Gandon Gavin Carothers Guus Schreiber Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jan Wielemaker Jean-François Baget Jeremy Carroll Kingsley Idehen Kiu Ching Chieh Lee Feigenbaum Manu Sporny Matteo Brunati Michael Hausenblas Mischa Tuffield Mohamed ZERGAOUI Nathan Rixham Nicholas Humfrey Olivier Corby Patrick Hayes Peter Patel-Schneider Pierre-Antoine Champin Richard Cyganiak Sandro Hawke Scott Bauer Souripriya Das Steve Harris Ted Thibodeau Thomas Steiner William Waites Yves Raimond Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -Russell ←
16:17:51 <Zakim> -Scott
Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott ←
16:18:22 <AndyS> webr3 - I see nothing about serialization
Andy Seaborne: webr3 - I see nothing about serialization ←
16:19:09 <pchampin> rrsagent, make minutes
Pierre-Antoine Champin: rrsagent, make minutes ←
16:19:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin ←
16:19:15 <davidwood> tomayac: You can edit http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-05-04 via the wiki once they are generated
Thomas Steiner: You can edit http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-05-04 via the wiki once they are generated [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ] ←
16:19:23 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual
Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual ←
16:19:55 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/
Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ ←
16:20:03 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:21:35 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
Formatted by CommonScribe