Minutes of last week's telecon were approved, and action on Simon is now closed.
Yolanda is going to add requirements identified by the PROV-Incubator to the list of requirements. Otherwise the list is complete. The teleconference with RDF-WG is confirmed for next week.
After a discussion on the four contenders, PIL, PAST, PIF and PROV, the participants massively voted in favor of PROV. Luc is to ask the WG about formal objection to PROV as the name for the standard. WG members have to raise formal objections by email. The intent is to confirm PROV as the name of the standard at the next teleconference.
Simon presented his proposal for a primer. It was indicated that an example of provenance of something not web-specific would be desirable (though not necessarily in the first version of the primer). Work on the primer will start immediately. It was acknowledged that this document should be released when ready, even if it is released after other FPWDs.
it is intended to have versions of the conceptual model document and formal model document, ready for internal review around 2011-09-17. Proposed FPWDs are intended to be circulated for the 2011-09-29 teleconference. The WG will then have to approve their release as FPWDs. The editors of the PAQ document were not present. Is this document also going for the same timetable?
Satya updated the group about progress on the ontology. Stian used the ontology to generate provenance from Taverna. He has raised an number of issues to be discussed by the authors. The notion of entity was briefly discussed. Discussions are to continue during the week.
14:34:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-irc ←
14:34:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:34:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:34:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:34:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:34:30 <trackbot> Date: 08 September 2011
14:34:35 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:34:36 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes ←
14:34:49 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.08
14:34:57 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:35:02 <Luc> Scribe: Paolo Missier
(Scribe set to Paolo Missier)
14:35:16 <Luc> Topic: Admin
Summary: Minutes of last week's telecon were approved, and action on Simon is now closed.
<Luc>Summary: Minutes of last week's telecon were approved, and action on Simon is now closed.
14:53:51 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 18 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:53:58 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
14:54:05 <paolo> zakim, ??P3 is me
zakim, ??P3 is me ←
14:54:05 <Zakim> +paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo; got it ←
14:55:55 <Zakim> + +1.443.987.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.987.aaaa ←
14:56:12 <Curt> zakim, +1.443.987.aaaa is me
Curt Tilmes: zakim, +1.443.987.aaaa is me ←
14:56:12 <Zakim> +Curt; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt; got it ←
14:56:22 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
14:57:40 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.449.aabb ←
14:58:01 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540 is me
Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, +1.540 is me ←
14:58:03 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh; got it ←
14:58:06 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aacc ←
14:58:07 <Luc> @paolo, everything is set up for you, thanks for scribing
Luc Moreau: @paolo, everything is set up for you, thanks for scribing ←
14:58:16 <paolo> ok
ok ←
14:58:18 <stain> Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me ←
14:58:18 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
14:58:25 <stain> (as I told you last week)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: (as I told you last week) ←
15:00:11 <Zakim> + +1.315.723.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.723.aadd ←
15:00:31 <Zakim> + +1.937.343.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.937.343.aaee ←
15:00:35 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?
Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, +1.937.343.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, +1.937.343.aaee ←
15:00:45 <Vinh> zakim, +1.937.343.aaee is me
Vinh Nguyen: zakim, +1.937.343.aaee is me ←
15:00:51 <tlebo> zakim, I am aadd
Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aadd ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> +Vinh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vinh; got it ←
15:00:59 <stain> perhaps wait 1 more minute, I was thrown off the conference bridge twice
Stian Soiland-Reyes: perhaps wait 1 more minute, I was thrown off the conference bridge twice ←
15:01:08 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:01:19 <tlebo> zakim, +1.315.723.aadd is me
Timothy Lebo: zakim, +1.315.723.aadd is me ←
15:01:25 <stain> Zakim, who is noisy?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:01:46 <Zakim> sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.315.723.aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.315.723.aadd' ←
15:01:48 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
Zakim IRC Bot: +Kingsley_Idehen ←
15:01:56 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software ←
15:01:58 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
15:02:00 <paolo> Stian, how about sip? works fine for me
Stian, how about sip? works fine for me ←
15:02:04 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:02:05 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (34%), Kingsley_Idehen (15%), Luc (43%)
Zakim IRC Bot: stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (34%), Kingsley_Idehen (15%), Luc (43%) ←
15:02:32 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it ←
15:02:33 <stain> paolo: I got in the third time nicely. :-) Using Skype. It threw me out after saying hello..
Paolo Missier: I got in the third time nicely. :-) Using Skype. It threw me out after saying hello.. [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:02:37 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- 2011-09-08 telecon agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.08 (MacTed)
Ted Thibodeau: MacTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- 2011-09-08 telecon agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.08 (MacTed) ←
15:02:38 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
15:02:56 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:03:02 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:03:09 <Zakim> +??P55
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P55 ←
15:03:23 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-01
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-01 ←
15:03:28 <Zakim> +[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI] ←
15:03:28 <Luc> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
Luc Moreau: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 01 telecon ←
15:03:34 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:42 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:03:43 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:03:45 <paolo> +1
+1 ←
15:03:47 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:03:48 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:03:53 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:03:59 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
15:04:11 <Luc> RESOLVED: the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
RESOLVED: the minutes of Sep 01 telecon ←
15:04:14 <jcheney> zakim, ??P0 is me
James Cheney: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
15:04:30 <Luc> TOPIC: Named graphs requirements
Summary: Yolanda is going to add requirements identified by the PROV-Incubator to the list of requirements. Otherwise the list is complete. The teleconference with RDF-WG is confirmed for next week.
<Luc>Summary: Yolanda is going to add requirements identified by the PROV-Incubator to the list of requirements. Otherwise the list is complete. The teleconference with RDF-WG is confirmed for next week.
15:04:40 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceRDFNamedGraph
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceRDFNamedGraph ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
15:04:56 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:04:58 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:05:29 <Luc> satya?
Luc Moreau: satya? ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aaff ←
15:05:38 <stain> Satya joined at 15:41 - but not on phone it seems
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Satya joined at 15:41 - but not on phone it seems ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> + +1.706.461.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.706.461.aagg ←
15:05:53 <YolandaGil> q+
Yolanda Gil: q+ ←
15:05:54 <paolo> no comments on requirements
no comments on requirements ←
15:06:10 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:06:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, tlebo, Vinh, MacTed (muted), ??P5, ??P34, ??P55, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, ??P9, ??P10, +1.518.633.aaff, +1.706.461.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, tlebo, Vinh, MacTed (muted), ??P5, ??P34, ??P55, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, ??P9, ??P10, +1.518.633.aaff, +1.706.461.aagg ←
15:06:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see JimMcCusker, dcorsar, zednik, jcheney, Lena, YolandaGil, Edoardo, smiles, tlebo, Vinh, Yogesh, Curt, paolo, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JimMcCusker, dcorsar, zednik, jcheney, Lena, YolandaGil, Edoardo, smiles, tlebo, Vinh, Yogesh, Curt, paolo, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain, ←
15:06:16 <Zakim> ... sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro ←
15:06:23 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:06:25 <paolo> satya: reqs are completed, wiki page updated as of yesterday
Satya Sahoo: reqs are completed, wiki page updated as of yesterday ←
15:06:28 <YolandaGil> There are requirements from the XG that were written at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/images/3/3f/RDFNextStep_ProvXG-submitted.pdf
Yolanda Gil: There are requirements from the XG that were written at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/images/3/3f/RDFNextStep_ProvXG-submitted.pdf ←
15:07:05 <Zakim> +??P50
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P50 ←
15:07:19 <stain> paolo, are you scribing..?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: paolo, are you scribing..? ←
15:07:38 <paolo> yolanda: mentions reqs from the XG work, and those do not seem to have been included in the current iwki page
Yolanda Gil: mentions reqs from the XG work, and those do not seem to have been included in the current iwki page ←
15:08:11 <paolo> Luc: Yolanda invited to update the reqs page with content from the XG doc
Luc Moreau: Yolanda invited to update the reqs page with content from the XG doc ←
15:08:14 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:08:17 <Luc> ack yola
Luc Moreau: ack yola ←
15:08:25 <Luc> Topic: name for the standard
Summary: After a discussion on the four contenders, PIL, PAST, PIF and PROV, the participants massively voted in favor of PROV. Luc is to ask the WG about formal objection to PROV as the name for the standard. WG members have to raise formal objections by email. The intent is to confirm PROV as the name of the standard at the next teleconference.
<Luc> Summary: After a discussion on the four contenders, PIL, PAST, PIF and PROV, the participants massively voted in favor of PROV. Luc is to ask the WG about formal objection to PROV as the name for the standard. WG members have to raise formal objections by email. The intent is to confirm PROV as the name of the standard at the next teleconference.
15:08:55 <paolo> Luc: shortlist of 3 identified last week
Luc Moreau: shortlist of 3 identified last week ←
15:09:09 <paolo> Luc: are there negative blockers amongst those?
Luc Moreau: are there negative blockers amongst those? ←
15:09:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:09:30 <jcheney> +q
James Cheney: +q ←
15:09:37 <YolandaGil> I know PIF as http://ccs.mit.edu/pif/: The Process Interchange Format
Yolanda Gil: I know PIF as http://ccs.mit.edu/pif/: The Process Interchange Format ←
15:09:47 <stain> that's a kind of blocker, yes
Stian Soiland-Reyes: that's a kind of blocker, yes ←
15:10:21 <tlebo> "This page was modified last by Jintae Lee on Nov. 17 '99 "
Timothy Lebo: "This page was modified last by Jintae Lee on Nov. 17 '99 " ←
15:10:33 <stain> just realised: PAST is difficult to Google
Stian Soiland-Reyes: just realised: PAST is difficult to Google ←
15:10:35 <sandro> "PLEASE NOTE: The PIF Project has been merged with the PSL (Process Specification Language) Project at NIST."
Sandro Hawke: "PLEASE NOTE: The PIF Project has been merged with the PSL (Process Specification Language) Project at NIST." ←
15:11:17 <paolo> tlebo: someone (Deb?) proposed avoiding names that are existing words, because it makes it harder to search for them
Timothy Lebo: someone (Deb?) proposed avoiding names that are existing words, because it makes it harder to search for them ←
15:11:19 <MacTed> PIL sounds like a pill, which often has negative connotation. has 130MM results on Google.
Ted Thibodeau: PIL sounds like a pill, which often has negative connotation. has 130MM results on Google. ←
15:11:19 <MacTed> PIF is a scoffing sound in American English, if not elsewhere. has 18MM results on Google.
Ted Thibodeau: PIF is a scoffing sound in American English, if not elsewhere. has 18MM results on Google. ←
15:11:19 <MacTed> PAST is a common word, which is itself problematic...
Ted Thibodeau: PAST is a common word, which is itself problematic... ←
15:11:22 <tlebo> difficulty to search for the standard, e.g. "past" is already a word.
Timothy Lebo: difficulty to search for the standard, e.g. "past" is already a word. ←
15:11:40 <Zakim> +??P63
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P63 ←
15:11:48 <jorn> zakim, ??p63 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p63 is me ←
15:11:48 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:11:48 <JimMcCusker> PAS, then?
James McCusker: PAS, then? ←
15:11:54 <stain> (but PASTm, PASTl etc. would be quite unique)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: (but PASTm, PASTl etc. would be quite unique) ←
15:12:03 <stain> JimMcCusker: french word
James McCusker: french word [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:12:12 <JimMcCusker> true.
James McCusker: true. ←
15:12:27 <MacTed> http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIF.html
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIF.html ←
15:12:27 <MacTed> http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIL.html
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIL.html ←
15:12:27 <MacTed> http://www.acronymfinder.com/PAST.html
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.acronymfinder.com/PAST.html ←
15:12:39 <stain> yes, w3 has very high google rating
Stian Soiland-Reyes: yes, w3 has very high google rating ←
15:12:42 <paolo> Tim: Deb concerned that existing words would make google searches less effective
Timothy Lebo: Deb concerned that existing words would make google searches less effective ←
15:12:47 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:12:50 <Luc> ack jch
Luc Moreau: ack jch ←
15:13:15 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:13:19 <paolo> satya: neg blocker for PIL: what we have is more than just a language
Satya Sahoo: neg blocker for PIL: what we have is more than just a language ←
15:13:19 <stain> sandro, agree, and "prov\:" is a good prefix as well
Stian Soiland-Reyes: sandro, agree, and "prov\:" is a good prefix as well ←
15:13:23 <stain> prov\:Entity for instance
Stian Soiland-Reyes: prov\:Entity for instance ←
15:13:31 <MacTed> I also prefer PROV overall...
Ted Thibodeau: I also prefer PROV overall... ←
15:13:35 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:13:35 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:13:37 <JimMcCusker> What does PROV expand to?
James McCusker: What does PROV expand to? ←
15:13:47 <sandro> "provenance"
Sandro Hawke: "provenance" ←
15:13:53 <stain> JimMcCusker, that's the problem! But we could say Provenance Standard
Stian Soiland-Reyes: JimMcCusker, that's the problem! But we could say Provenance Standard ←
15:14:11 <paolo> Ted: all 3 of them have overlaps with existing names/acronyms. large number of results on google for all of them
Ted Thibodeau: all 3 of them have overlaps with existing names/acronyms. large number of results on google for all of them ←
15:14:16 <zednik> I also like PROV
Stephan Zednik: I also like PROV ←
15:14:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:14:28 <paolo> Ted: name needs not be an acronym
Ted Thibodeau: name needs not be an acronym ←
15:14:30 <tlebo> google; Prov (TM) Exam services
Timothy Lebo: google; Prov (TM) Exam services ←
15:14:30 <zednik> PROVenance standard?
Stephan Zednik: PROVenance standard? ←
15:14:33 <stain> +1 that name does not need to be an acronym
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 that name does not need to be an acronym ←
15:14:41 <paolo> +1 for Ted -- no need to agonize over acronyms
+1 for Ted -- no need to agonize over acronyms ←
15:14:42 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:14:42 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:14:43 <JimMcCusker> PROvenance Vocabulary (with apologies to Olaf)
James McCusker: PROvenance Vocabulary (with apologies to Olaf) ←
15:15:08 <stain> take the red PIL
Stian Soiland-Reyes: take the red PIL ←
15:15:12 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:15:16 <MacTed> of course... PROV gets 93MM Google results
Ted Thibodeau: of course... PROV gets 93MM Google results ←
15:15:17 <paolo> smiles: "L" can stand for smt else than 'language" if we like the acronym
Simon Miles: "L" can stand for smt else than 'language" if we like the acronym ←
15:15:22 <smiles> ack smiles
Simon Miles: ack smiles ←
15:15:23 <JimMcCusker> q+
James McCusker: q+ ←
15:15:44 <paolo> +q
+q ←
15:15:48 <JimMcCusker> q-
James McCusker: q- ←
15:16:11 <Luc> ack pao
Luc Moreau: ack pao ←
15:16:21 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:16:45 <stain> perhaps the problem is that we voted for both short and long name at the same time.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: perhaps the problem is that we voted for both short and long name at the same time. ←
15:17:30 <stain> For instane WSDL is fairly recognizable on the internets - does not mean anything on its own, and pronounciation is something you learn at conferences
Stian Soiland-Reyes: For instane WSDL is fairly recognizable on the internets - does not mean anything on its own, and pronounciation is something you learn at conferences ←
15:17:59 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:18:16 <Luc> ack san
Luc Moreau: ack san ←
15:18:35 <tlebo> let's hire some marketers :-)
Timothy Lebo: let's hire some marketers :-) ←
15:18:37 <paolo> JimMcCusker would have voted for PROV
JimMcCusker would have voted for PROV ←
15:19:02 <sandro> sandro: suggests doing +/- on each one.
Sandro Hawke: suggests doing +/- on each one. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:19:20 <MacTed> ProvVoc - 21 results on Google. not an acronym.
Ted Thibodeau: ProvVoc - 21 results on Google. not an acronym. ←
15:19:21 <MacTed> :-)
Ted Thibodeau: :-) ←
15:19:30 <MacTed> pronounced "provoke"
Ted Thibodeau: pronounced "provoke" ←
15:19:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:19:53 <sandro> i'm sure we'll get to the top of google with PIF or PROV, but not PAST, maybe not PIL.
Sandro Hawke: i'm sure we'll get to the top of google with PIF or PROV, but not PAST, maybe not PIL. ←
15:19:58 <paolo> Luc: how do we vote
Luc Moreau: how do we vote ←
15:20:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:20:17 <paolo> sandro: vote for/against until we get somewhere -- min the negatives
Sandro Hawke: vote for/against until we get somewhere -- min the negatives ←
15:20:32 <Luc> Votes for PIL
Luc Moreau: Votes for PIL ←
15:20:36 <sandro> (and PIV has some real strong negatives.)
Sandro Hawke: (and PIV has some real strong negatives.) ←
15:20:42 <JimMcCusker> -1
James McCusker: -1 ←
15:20:43 <tlebo> -1
Timothy Lebo: -1 ←
15:20:45 <Lena> -1
Helena Deus: -1 ←
15:20:46 <Edoardo> -1
Edoardo Pignotti: -1 ←
15:20:46 <Curt> -1
Curt Tilmes: -1 ←
15:20:47 <MacTed> -1
Ted Thibodeau: -1 ←
15:20:47 <dcorsar> -1
David Corsar: -1 ←
15:20:48 <Yogesh> -1
Yogesh Simmhan: -1 ←
15:20:48 <stain> 0
15:20:49 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:20:49 <sandro> 0
Sandro Hawke: 0 ←
15:20:53 <paolo> 0
0 ←
15:20:53 <jorn> 0
15:20:56 <zednik> -1
Stephan Zednik: -1 ←
15:21:01 <YolandaGil> 0
Yolanda Gil: 0 ←
15:21:02 <paolo> satya: -1
Satya Sahoo: -1 ←
15:21:15 <Luc> Votes for PAST
Luc Moreau: Votes for PAST ←
15:21:21 <paolo> +1
+1 ←
15:21:21 <sandro> -1 (google problems)
Sandro Hawke: -1 (google problems) ←
15:21:22 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:21:22 <YolandaGil> -1
Yolanda Gil: -1 ←
15:21:22 <smiles> 0
Simon Miles: 0 ←
15:21:23 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:21:23 <Yogesh> -1
Yogesh Simmhan: -1 ←
15:21:23 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:21:25 <JimMcCusker> 0
James McCusker: 0 ←
15:21:26 <zednik> 0
Stephan Zednik: 0 ←
15:21:27 <Edoardo> 0
15:21:28 <jcheney> -1 (word)
James Cheney: -1 (word) ←
15:21:28 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:21:30 <dcorsar> 0
David Corsar: 0 ←
15:21:31 <MacTed> -1
Ted Thibodeau: -1 ←
15:21:33 <jorn> -1
15:21:48 <Luc> Votes for PIF
Luc Moreau: Votes for PIF ←
15:21:51 <JimMcCusker> -1
James McCusker: -1 ←
15:21:53 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:21:53 <YolandaGil> +1
Yolanda Gil: +1 ←
15:21:54 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:21:54 <stain> 0
15:21:55 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:21:56 <zednik> -1
Stephan Zednik: -1 ←
15:21:58 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
15:21:59 <paolo> satya: +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:22:00 <Curt> 0
Curt Tilmes: 0 ←
15:22:01 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:22:01 <sandro> 0
Sandro Hawke: 0 ←
15:22:01 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo Pignotti: +1 ←
15:22:02 <jorn> 0
15:22:06 <MacTed> 0
Ted Thibodeau: 0 ←
15:22:07 <paolo> 0
0 ←
15:22:09 <jcheney> 0
James Cheney: 0 ←
15:22:22 <Luc> Votes for PROV
Luc Moreau: Votes for PROV ←
15:22:25 <JimMcCusker> +1
James McCusker: +1 ←
15:22:26 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:22:26 <jorn> +1
15:22:27 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:22:27 <Vinh> +1
Vinh Nguyen: +1 ←
15:22:27 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:22:27 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:22:28 <smiles> -1
Simon Miles: -1 ←
15:22:31 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:22:32 <Yogesh> 0
Yogesh Simmhan: 0 ←
15:22:33 <jcheney> 0
James Cheney: 0 ←
15:22:35 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:22:36 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
15:22:36 <Zakim> + +1.509.554.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.554.aahh ←
15:22:36 <YolandaGil> +1
Yolanda Gil: +1 ←
15:22:38 <paolo> +1
+1 ←
15:22:39 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:22:51 <stain> wow
Stian Soiland-Reyes: wow ←
15:23:11 <paolo> Luc: strong support for PROV
Luc Moreau: strong support for PROV ←
15:23:15 <Luc> PROVIDENCE
Luc Moreau: PROVIDENCE ←
15:23:33 <paolo> Luc: concern: mixup with providence...
Luc Moreau: concern: mixup with providence... ←
15:23:37 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:23:39 <jorn> maybe we should call it PROV IL?
Jörn Hees: maybe we should call it PROV IL? ←
15:23:50 <stain> I don't get the providence mixup
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I don't get the providence mixup ←
15:23:51 <YolandaGil> I don't understand what is the problem with providence
Yolanda Gil: I don't understand what is the problem with providence ←
15:24:03 <stain> would that not be the problem with any of the P* names?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: would that not be the problem with any of the P* names? ←
15:24:18 <JimMcCusker> Yeah, I use that as a joke when I give provenance talks...
James McCusker: Yeah, I use that as a joke when I give provenance talks... ←
15:24:29 <YolandaGil> I don't see a problem, Luc!
Yolanda Gil: I don't see a problem, Luc! ←
15:24:49 <MacTed> jorn - IL stands for?
Ted Thibodeau: jorn - IL stands for? ←
15:25:03 <jorn> Interchange Language :)
Jörn Hees: Interchange Language :) ←
15:25:04 <paolo> Luc: vote on PROV alone to see if there any negs
Luc Moreau: vote on PROV alone to see if there any negs ←
15:25:34 <stain> what kind of trademark does http://www.provexam.com/ have for 'prov' ?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: what kind of trademark does http://www.provexam.com/ have for 'prov' ? ←
15:25:36 <paolo> Luc: how would this name be used in documents?
Luc Moreau: how would this name be used in documents? ←
15:25:43 <paolo> +q
+q ←
15:25:49 <JimMcCusker> foobar a prov\:Entity
James McCusker: foobar a prov\:Entity ←
15:26:10 <jorn> PROV IDM
15:26:14 <tlebo> Provenance Description and Interchange Framework?
Timothy Lebo: Provenance Description and Interchange Framework? ←
15:26:20 <stain> +1 paolo
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 paolo ←
15:26:33 <sandro> "The Prov Data Model"
Sandro Hawke: "The Prov Data Model" ←
15:26:38 <sandro> "The Prov Data Model for Provenance Interchange"
Sandro Hawke: "The Prov Data Model for Provenance Interchange" ←
15:26:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:26:44 <paolo> q-
q- ←
15:27:00 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:27:16 <paolo> Luc: Simon still has a formal objection?
Luc Moreau: Simon still has a formal objection? ←
15:27:18 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
15:27:37 <Zakim> + +1.915.747.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.915.747.aaii ←
15:27:43 <jorn> Zakim: ??p19 is me
15:27:48 <stain> "Provenance Rules On VVeb"
Stian Soiland-Reyes: "Provenance Rules On VVeb" ←
15:27:51 <paolo> smiles: mostly on aesthetic grounds...
Simon Miles: mostly on aesthetic grounds... ←
15:27:57 <jorn> Zakim, ??p19 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p19 is me ←
15:27:57 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:28:06 <paolo> smiles: wouldn't formally object though
Simon Miles: wouldn't formally object though ←
15:28:29 <jorn> +1
15:28:32 <JimMcCusker> +1
James McCusker: +1 ←
15:28:34 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:28:34 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:28:35 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:28:36 <paolo> action to emails the WG announcing that PROV is the proposed name
action to emails the WG announcing that PROV is the proposed name ←
15:28:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - to ←
15:28:41 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:29:05 <Luc> TOPIC: Primer Document
Summary: Simon presented his proposal for a primer. It was indicated that an example of provenance of something not web-specific would be desirable (though not necessarily in the first version of the primer). Work on the primer will start immediately. It was acknowledged that this document should be released when ready, even if it is released after other FPWDs.
<Luc> Summary: Simon presented his proposal for a primer. It was indicated that an example of provenance of something not web-specific would be desirable (though not necessarily in the first version of the primer). Work on the primer will start immediately. It was acknowledged that this document should be released when ready, even if it is released after other FPWDs.
15:29:15 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Sep/0042.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Sep/0042.html ←
15:29:23 <stain> http://media.zibb.com/trademark/prov/30725511 should not be in conflict - "Education and entertainment"
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://media.zibb.com/trademark/prov/30725511 should not be in conflict - "Education and entertainment" ←
15:29:29 <stain> (how exams are entertainment is beyond me)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: (how exams are entertainment is beyond me) ←
15:29:53 <paolo> smiles: primer should be released alongside the model doc
Simon Miles: primer should be released alongside the model doc ←
15:30:04 <paolo> smiles: would generate better feedback to us
Simon Miles: would generate better feedback to us ←
15:30:31 <paolo> smiles: as the model is still evolving, the primer would not be complete at the time of release
Simon Miles: as the model is still evolving, the primer would not be complete at the time of release ←
15:30:54 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
15:31:10 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:31:17 <paolo> smiles: would be good to have a "webby" example, doc-based like the jou example, to align well with the W3C setting where the doc belongs
Simon Miles: would be good to have a "webby" example, doc-based like the jou example, to align well with the W3C setting where the doc belongs ←
15:31:22 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
15:31:27 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:31:27 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:32:02 <paolo> ted: a "webby" example is good, but important also to have a completely non-webby example. Science domains, or others
Ted Thibodeau: a "webby" example is good, but important also to have a completely non-webby example. Science domains, or others ←
15:32:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:32:28 <Luc> ack mac
Luc Moreau: ack mac ←
15:32:33 <stain> smiles' proposal sounds reasonable, agree to not restrict to data journalism example
Stian Soiland-Reyes: smiles' proposal sounds reasonable, agree to not restrict to data journalism example ←
15:32:39 <paolo> smiles: ok, but the initial release needs to appeal to people who will provide early feedback
Simon Miles: ok, but the initial release needs to appeal to people who will provide early feedback ←
15:32:39 <zednik> q+
Stephan Zednik: q+ ←
15:33:05 <paolo> ted: agree, but that puts people in the web mindset and that may form a bias
Ted Thibodeau: agree, but that puts people in the web mindset and that may form a bias ←
15:33:31 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:33:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:33:39 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aajj
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aajj ←
15:33:42 <Zakim> - +1.706.461.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.706.461.aagg ←
15:33:52 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
15:33:53 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:04 <paolo> zednik: agree with Ted: danger to be perceived as provenance /of/ the web rather than /on/ the web
Stephan Zednik: agree with Ted: danger to be perceived as provenance /of/ the web rather than /on/ the web ←
15:34:13 <stain> +1 ted - some simple science (high school chemistry experiment?) example should be good
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ted - some simple science (high school chemistry experiment?) example should be good ←
15:34:20 <satya> zakim, +1.216.368.aajj is me
Satya Sahoo: zakim, +1.216.368.aajj is me ←
15:34:20 <Zakim> +satya; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +satya; got it ←
15:34:52 <zednik> how about a simple scenario of the provenance of a physical object? example from library community?
Stephan Zednik: how about a simple scenario of the provenance of a physical object? example from library community? ←
15:34:53 <paolo> Luc: primer not starte yet. too ambitious to release by the end of month? some authors are busy on all other docs at the same time
Luc Moreau: primer not starte yet. too ambitious to release by the end of month? some authors are busy on all other docs at the same time ←
15:35:40 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:35:40 <paolo> smiles: yes, timing is tight. delayed release is a plausible option
Simon Miles: yes, timing is tight. delayed release is a plausible option ←
15:35:41 <Zakim> + +1.832.386.aakk
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.832.386.aakk ←
15:36:04 <paolo> Luc @Sandro: can docs be released without primer?
Luc @Sandro: can docs be released without primer? ←
15:36:34 <paolo> sandro: early drafts of model docs without primer is fine if for limited time
Sandro Hawke: early drafts of model docs without primer is fine if for limited time ←
15:36:42 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:36:43 <stain> what if we do some third party blog posts or something?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: what if we do some third party blog posts or something? ←
15:36:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:37:01 <Luc> ack sat
Luc Moreau: ack sat ←
15:37:08 <Zakim> - +1.509.554.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.554.aahh ←
15:38:19 <stain> paolo: that people who would be writing the primer can instead focus on filling in a complete example and challenge our model
Paolo Missier: that people who would be writing the primer can instead focus on filling in a complete example and challenge our model [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:38:33 <paolo> Luc: would be nice to see the ASN in use in the example
Luc Moreau: would be nice to see the ASN in use in the example ←
15:39:17 <paolo> smiles: primer needs to be understandeable -- ASN may possibly make it harder?
Simon Miles: primer needs to be understandeable -- ASN may possibly make it harder? ←
15:39:32 <Zakim> + +1.509.554.aall
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.554.aall ←
15:39:58 <paolo> smiles: there prior comments on going bottom up with small examples rather than a large big one example from the start
Simon Miles: there prior comments on going bottom up with small examples rather than a large big one example from the start ←
15:40:30 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:40:41 <Luc> ack pao
Luc Moreau: ack pao ←
15:41:57 <stain> I like the flow of how instance how http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ starts very simple
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I like the flow of how instance how http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ starts very simple ←
15:41:59 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:42:01 <YolandaGil> I am interested Luc
Yolanda Gil: I am interested Luc ←
15:42:05 <stain> I would not mind joining
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I would not mind joining ←
15:42:09 <satya> after the release of the model document?
Satya Sahoo: after the release of the model document? ←
15:42:15 <paolo> Luc: who would contribute to the primer?
Luc Moreau: who would contribute to the primer? ←
15:42:20 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:42:24 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:42:25 <paolo> Paolo after model / ontology doc
Paolo after model / ontology doc ←
15:42:25 <MacTed> +1 with limited available time
Ted Thibodeau: +1 with limited available time ←
15:42:25 <zednik> I am willing to contribute (+1)
Stephan Zednik: I am willing to contribute (+1) ←
15:42:38 <stain> should not have more than say 3 authors
Stian Soiland-Reyes: should not have more than say 3 authors ←
15:42:44 <ericstephan> +1 after the connection informal report
Eric Stephan: +1 after the connection informal report ←
15:42:45 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:42:57 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
15:43:03 <jorn> zakim, ??p19 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p19 is me ←
15:43:03 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:43:03 <paolo> @stian: few editors, but no hard limit on authors...?
@stian: few editors, but no hard limit on authors...? ←
15:43:13 <stain> agree
Stian Soiland-Reyes: agree ←
15:43:26 <paolo> smiles: will put a structure up on the wiki then contact interested people
Simon Miles: will put a structure up on the wiki then contact interested people ←
15:43:40 <tlebo> The diagrams at http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ are very nice
Timothy Lebo: The diagrams at http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ are very nice ←
15:43:52 <Luc> topic: First Public Working Drafts
Summary: it is intended to have versions of the conceptual model document and formal model document, ready for internal review around 2011-09-17. Proposed FPWDs are intended to be circulated for the 2011-09-29 teleconference. The WG will then have to approve their release as FPWDs. The editors of the PAQ document were not present. Is this document also going for the same timetable?
<luc> Summary: it is intended to have versions of the conceptual model document and formal model document, ready for internal review around 2011-09-17. Proposed FPWDs are intended to be circulated for the 2011-09-29 teleconference. The WG will then have to approve their release as FPWDs. The editors of the PAQ document were not present. Is this document also going for the same timetable?
15:44:23 <paolo> Luc @sandro: formal reqs prior to releasing docs as drafts:?
Luc @sandro: formal reqs prior to releasing docs as drafts:? ←
15:45:02 <paolo> sandro: there's a page for that, but: need to get a persistent URL from W3C
Sandro Hawke: there's a page for that, but: need to get a persistent URL from W3C ←
15:45:04 <satya> @Tim: agree, can we try to use similar diagram format for the formal model draft?
Satya Sahoo: @Tim: agree, can we try to use similar diagram format for the formal model draft? ←
15:45:38 <paolo> sandro: doc needs to be validated for format / HTML -- respec should make that easy
Sandro Hawke: doc needs to be validated for format / HTML -- respec should make that easy ←
15:45:44 <paolo> luc: any editorial control?
Luc Moreau: any editorial control? ←
15:45:45 <stain> I raised the question on namespace as well for the ontology - do we know what would make sense for now?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I raised the question on namespace as well for the ontology - do we know what would make sense for now? ←
15:46:35 <paolo> sandro: status of specs: a very briefly explanation of what the draft is about
Sandro Hawke: status of specs: a very briefly explanation of what the draft is about ←
15:46:58 <tlebo> @satya: very much so. I'll use it to base the diagrams I am doing for model documetn
Timothy Lebo: @satya: very much so. I'll use it to base the diagrams I am doing for model documetn ←
15:47:07 <paolo> Sandro: need a group resolution to publish, and need to point to it when requesting release
Sandro Hawke: need a group resolution to publish, and need to point to it when requesting release ←
15:48:13 <sandro> Here's the check list for publication: http://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions
Sandro Hawke: Here's the check list for publication: http://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions ←
15:49:31 <Lena> +q
Helena Deus: +q ←
15:50:03 <paolo> Paolo: release timetable as agreed: Sept 16th then Sept 29 for approval
Paolo Missier: release timetable as agreed: Sept 16th then Sept 29 for approval ←
15:50:24 <paolo> satya: requesting sept 19th, then feedback cycle, then Sept 29th for approval
Satya Sahoo: requesting sept 19th, then feedback cycle, then Sept 29th for approval ←
15:50:35 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:50:41 <Luc> ack len
Luc Moreau: ack len ←
15:51:09 <paolo> Lena: should we include security elements (authz) in the model/ontology?
Helena Deus: should we include security elements (authz) in the model/ontology? ←
15:51:28 <paolo> Lena: scope of model should be clear, i.e., authz out of scope
Helena Deus: scope of model should be clear, i.e., authz out of scope ←
15:51:34 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:51:47 <tlebo> lena: conneg and authorization; survey results show people confuse provenance and authorization
Helena Deus: conneg and authorization; survey results show people confuse provenance and authorization [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:51:54 <Luc> ack pao
Luc Moreau: ack pao ←
15:53:40 <Luc> ack sm
Luc Moreau: ack sm ←
15:54:43 <paolo> smiles @lena: the authz issue is on whether we trust what happened in the past, may not be out of scope after all
smiles @lena: the authz issue is on whether we trust what happened in the past, may not be out of scope after all ←
15:54:54 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:55:17 <paolo> luc: first working draft offers a first look at our work, so this can be raised as a missing element that should be added
Luc Moreau: first working draft offers a first look at our work, so this can be raised as a missing element that should be added ←
15:55:31 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:55:36 <paolo> satya: important not to go into the derivation part of provenance in this group
Satya Sahoo: important not to go into the derivation part of provenance in this group ←
15:55:55 <Luc> Topic: Formal Model document
Summary: Satya updated the group about progress on the ontology. Stian used the ontology to generate provenance from Taverna. He has raised an number of issues to be discussed by the authors. The notion of entity was briefly discussed. Discussions are to continue during the week.
<luc> Summary: Satya updated the group about progress on the ontology. Stian used the ontology to generate provenance from Taverna. He has raised an number of issues to be discussed by the authors. The notion of entity was briefly discussed. Discussions are to continue during the week.
15:56:49 <paolo> satya: updates will be made this week, only a few people attended previous meeting.
Satya Sahoo: updates will be made this week, only a few people attended previous meeting. ←
15:56:56 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:57:06 <paolo> satya: entailments and extension mechanisms will be addressed next
Satya Sahoo: entailments and extension mechanisms will be addressed next ←
15:57:27 <tlebo> (should Stian work from the main branch in mercuruial?)
Timothy Lebo: (should Stian work from the main branch in mercuruial?) ←
15:57:34 <paolo> satya: soliciting feedback at this stage, as Stian provided.
Satya Sahoo: soliciting feedback at this stage, as Stian provided. ←
15:57:37 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
15:57:52 <paolo> satya: need to get the RDF encoding for the file crime scenario right as it is normative
Satya Sahoo: need to get the RDF encoding for the file crime scenario right as it is normative ←
15:58:25 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:58:30 <stain> I just asked was if I should edit directly on the head branch or a sepearate feature branch
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I just asked was if I should edit directly on the head branch or a sepearate feature branch ←
15:58:31 <satya> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology
Satya Sahoo: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology ←
15:59:06 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:59:24 <Luc> ack paol
Luc Moreau: ack paol ←
15:59:38 <satya> Monday US 12pm ET
Satya Sahoo: Monday US 12pm ET ←
16:00:05 <tlebo> @stain, I think that is a weak "yes", join the head branch.
Timothy Lebo: @stain, I think that is a weak "yes", join the head branch. ←
16:00:24 <paolo> satya: that was the time for the regular ontology call (skype)
Satya Sahoo: that was the time for the regular ontology call (skype) ←
16:00:59 <Zakim> +??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←
16:01:10 <paolo> satya: no complete agreement on how to express entities.
Satya Sahoo: no complete agreement on how to express entities. ←
16:01:45 <Zakim> -??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P10 ←
16:01:50 <paolo> what is the id criteria to distinguish entities? (ref to the cars example)
what is the id criteria to distinguish entities? (ref to the cars example) ←
16:03:17 <paolo> satya: what are the distinguishing attributes for different entities that refer to the same characterized thing
Satya Sahoo: what are the distinguishing attributes for different entities that refer to the same characterized thing ←
16:03:45 <Zakim> -[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI] ←
16:04:19 <paolo> luc: there may be different perspectives about the "same car". each of them is asserted as an entity
Luc Moreau: there may be different perspectives about the "same car". each of them is asserted as an entity ←
16:04:38 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:05:30 <paolo> paolo @satya: long ago the URI used to be called a "surrogate key"...
paolo @satya: long ago the URI used to be called a "surrogate key"... ←
16:05:39 <Zakim> - +1.915.747.aaii
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.915.747.aaii ←
16:05:57 <Zakim> - +1.832.386.aakk
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.832.386.aakk ←
16:06:10 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:06:10 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
16:06:12 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
16:07:01 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
16:07:10 <JimMcCusker> q+
James McCusker: q+ ←
16:07:25 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aamm
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aamm ←
16:09:13 <Luc> ack mac
Luc Moreau: ack mac ←
16:09:23 <Luc> ack jim
Luc Moreau: ack jim ←
16:09:56 <stain> satya, I'll push my changes to the OWL file if that's OK. I've fixed the verbs and labels.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: satya, I'll push my changes to the OWL file if that's OK. I've fixed the verbs and labels. ←
16:10:06 <stain> not touched the HTML but can do a search replace
Stian Soiland-Reyes: not touched the HTML but can do a search replace ←
16:10:10 <Zakim> -??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P45 ←
16:10:12 <satya> @Stian, thanks!
Satya Sahoo: @Stian, thanks! ←
16:10:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:11:15 <stain> satya: do you agree on making hadParticipant super-property of used and wasControlledBy ?
Satya Sahoo: do you agree on making hadParticipant super-property of used and wasControlledBy ? [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
16:11:32 <paolo> luc @smiles: would the car example be suitable for the primar?
luc @smiles: would the car example be suitable for the primar? ←
16:12:02 <paolo> smiles: potentially yes, to explain what we mean by entity etc, identifying attributes, etc.
Simon Miles: potentially yes, to explain what we mean by entity etc, identifying attributes, etc. ←
16:12:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:12:06 <stain> satya: that does not cover the case of compliments - some OWL expert can figure that out
Satya Sahoo: that does not cover the case of compliments - some OWL expert can figure that out [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
16:12:09 <satya> @Stian: I had asserted that earlier, but some members want further discussion about it - so they are not related
Satya Sahoo: @Stian: I had asserted that earlier, but some members want further discussion about it - so they are not related ←
16:12:21 <Zakim> -satya
Zakim IRC Bot: -satya ←
16:12:22 <Zakim> -??P50
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P50 ←
16:12:22 <Zakim> -paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo ←
16:12:24 <Zakim> - +1.509.554.aall
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.554.aall ←
16:12:24 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:12:25 <Zakim> -??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←
16:12:25 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
16:12:26 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:12:30 <Zakim> -Curt
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt ←
16:12:32 <Zakim> -Vinh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vinh ←
16:12:34 <Luc> paolo, i will do the necessary incantation here
Luc Moreau: paolo, i will do the necessary incantation here ←
16:12:39 <paolo> ok thanks
ok thanks ←
16:12:41 <stain> @Satya - ok, will leave that out
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @Satya - ok, will leave that out ←
16:12:41 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:12:42 <stain> bye
Stian Soiland-Reyes: bye ←
16:12:44 <Luc> thanks for scribing
Luc Moreau: thanks for scribing ←
16:12:46 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aamm
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aamm ←
16:12:47 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
16:12:58 <ericstephan> bye
Eric Stephan: bye ←
16:12:58 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:13:02 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:13:11 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:13:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
16:13:19 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:13:19 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:13:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been paolo, Curt, Luc, +1.540.449.aabb, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, Vinh, tlebo, MacTed, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, +1.518.633.aaff,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been paolo, Curt, Luc, +1.540.449.aabb, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, Vinh, tlebo, MacTed, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, +1.518.633.aaff, ←
16:13:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:13:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:13:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:13:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:13:22 <Zakim> ... +1.706.461.aagg, jorn, +1.509.554.aahh, +1.915.747.aaii, satya, +1.832.386.aakk, +1.509.554.aall, +1.518.633.aamm
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.706.461.aagg, jorn, +1.509.554.aahh, +1.915.747.aaii, satya, +1.832.386.aakk, +1.509.554.aall, +1.518.633.aamm ←
Formatted by CommonScribe