IRC log of prov on 2011-09-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:34:25 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #prov
- 14:34:25 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-irc
- 14:34:27 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:34:27 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #prov
- 14:34:29 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 14:34:29 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 14:34:30 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
- 14:34:30 [trackbot]
- Date: 08 September 2011
- 14:34:35 [Luc]
- Zakim, this will be PROV
- 14:34:36 [Zakim]
- ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
- 14:34:49 [Luc]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.08
- 14:34:57 [Luc]
- Chair: Luc Moreau
- 14:35:02 [Luc]
- Scribe: Paolo Missier
- 14:35:16 [Luc]
- Topic: Admin
- 14:41:54 [satya]
- satya has joined #prov
- 14:48:43 [paolo]
- paolo has joined #prov
- 14:53:51 [Zakim]
- SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
- 14:53:58 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 14:54:05 [paolo]
- zakim, ??P3 is me
- 14:54:05 [Zakim]
- +paolo; got it
- 14:55:32 [Curt]
- Curt has joined #prov
- 14:55:55 [Zakim]
- + +1.443.987.aaaa
- 14:56:12 [Curt]
- zakim, +1.443.987.aaaa is me
- 14:56:12 [Zakim]
- +Curt; got it
- 14:56:17 [Yogesh]
- Yogesh has joined #prov
- 14:56:22 [Zakim]
- +Luc
- 14:57:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.540.449.aabb
- 14:58:01 [Yogesh]
- zakim, +1.540 is me
- 14:58:03 [Zakim]
- +Yogesh; got it
- 14:58:06 [Zakim]
- + +44.789.470.aacc
- 14:58:07 [Luc]
- @paolo, everything is set up for you, thanks for scribing
- 14:58:16 [paolo]
- ok
- 14:58:18 [stain]
- Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me
- 14:58:18 [Zakim]
- +stain; got it
- 14:58:25 [stain]
- (as I told you last week)
- 14:59:37 [Vinh]
- Vinh has joined #prov
- 15:00:11 [Zakim]
- + +1.315.723.aadd
- 15:00:19 [tlebo]
- tlebo has joined #prov
- 15:00:31 [Zakim]
- + +1.937.343.aaee
- 15:00:35 [tlebo]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:00:35 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, +1.937.343.aaee
- 15:00:45 [Vinh]
- zakim, +1.937.343.aaee is me
- 15:00:48 [smiles]
- smiles has joined #prov
- 15:00:51 [tlebo]
- zakim, I am aadd
- 15:00:54 [Zakim]
- +Vinh; got it
- 15:00:59 [stain]
- perhaps wait 1 more minute, I was thrown off the conference bridge twice
- 15:01:08 [Zakim]
- +tlebo; got it
- 15:01:19 [tlebo]
- zakim, +1.315.723.aadd is me
- 15:01:25 [stain]
- Zakim, who is noisy?
- 15:01:46 [Zakim]
- sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.315.723.aadd'
- 15:01:48 [Zakim]
- +Kingsley_Idehen
- 15:01:56 [MacTed]
- Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
- 15:01:58 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 15:02:00 [paolo]
- Stian, how about sip? works fine for me
- 15:02:04 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 15:02:05 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:02:08 [Zakim]
- stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (34%), Kingsley_Idehen (15%), Luc (43%)
- 15:02:22 [Edoardo]
- Edoardo has joined #prov
- 15:02:32 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software; got it
- 15:02:33 [stain]
- paolo: I got in the third time nicely. :-) Using Skype. It threw me out after saying hello..
- 15:02:37 [MacTed]
- MacTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- 2011-09-08 telecon agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.08 (MacTed)
- 15:02:38 [Zakim]
- +??P34
- 15:02:39 [YolandaGil]
- YolandaGil has joined #prov
- 15:02:55 [Lena]
- Lena has joined #prov
- 15:02:56 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 15:03:02 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 15:03:09 [Zakim]
- +??P55
- 15:03:23 [Luc]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-01
- 15:03:28 [Zakim]
- +[ISI]
- 15:03:28 [Luc]
- PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
- 15:03:28 [paolo]
- topic: admin
- 15:03:32 [jcheney]
- jcheney has joined #prov
- 15:03:34 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:03:42 [stain]
- +1
- 15:03:43 [Curt]
- +1
- 15:03:45 [paolo]
- +1
- 15:03:47 [Edoardo]
- +1
- 15:03:48 [Lena]
- +1
- 15:03:53 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:03:59 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:04:00 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 15:04:11 [Luc]
- RESOLVED the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
- 15:04:14 [jcheney]
- zakim, ??P0 is me
- 15:04:24 [zednik]
- zednik has joined #prov
- 15:04:30 [Luc]
- TOPIC: Named graphs requirements
- 15:04:30 [dcorsar]
- dcorsar has joined #prov
- 15:04:38 [paolo]
- topic: Named graphs requirements
- 15:04:40 [Luc]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceRDFNamedGraph
- 15:04:48 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 15:04:56 [Zakim]
- +jcheney; got it
- 15:04:58 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:05:29 [Luc]
- satya?
- 15:05:31 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.633.aaff
- 15:05:38 [stain]
- Satya joined at 15:41 - but not on phone it seems
- 15:05:48 [Zakim]
- + +1.706.461.aagg
- 15:05:53 [YolandaGil]
- q+
- 15:05:54 [paolo]
- no comments on requirements
- 15:05:59 [JimMcCusker]
- JimMcCusker has joined #prov
- 15:06:10 [MacTed]
- Zakim, who's here?
- 15:06:10 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, tlebo, Vinh, MacTed (muted), ??P5, ??P34, ??P55, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, ??P9, ??P10, +1.518.633.aaff, +1.706.461.aagg
- 15:06:14 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see JimMcCusker, dcorsar, zednik, jcheney, Lena, YolandaGil, Edoardo, smiles, tlebo, Vinh, Yogesh, Curt, paolo, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain,
- 15:06:16 [Zakim]
- ... sandro
- 15:06:23 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:06:25 [paolo]
- satya: reqs are completed, wiki page updated as of yesterday
- 15:06:28 [YolandaGil]
- There are requirements from the XG that were written at: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/images/3/3f/RDFNextStep_ProvXG-submitted.pdf
- 15:07:05 [Zakim]
- +??P50
- 15:07:19 [stain]
- paolo, are you scribing..?
- 15:07:38 [paolo]
- yolanda: mentions reqs from the XG work, and those do not seem to have been included in the current iwki page
- 15:08:11 [paolo]
- Luc: Yolanda invited to update the reqs page with content from the XG doc
- 15:08:14 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:08:17 [Luc]
- ack yola
- 15:08:25 [Luc]
- Topic: name for the standard
- 15:08:31 [paolo]
- topic: Name for the standard
- 15:08:55 [paolo]
- Luc: shortlist of 3 identified last week
- 15:09:09 [paolo]
- Luc: are there negative blockers amongst those?
- 15:09:20 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:09:30 [jcheney]
- +q
- 15:09:37 [YolandaGil]
- I know PIF as http://ccs.mit.edu/pif/: The Process Interchange Format
- 15:09:47 [stain]
- that's a kind of blocker, yes
- 15:10:21 [tlebo]
- "This page was modified last by Jintae Lee on Nov. 17 '99 "
- 15:10:33 [stain]
- just realised: PAST is difficult to Google
- 15:10:35 [sandro]
- "PLEASE NOTE: The PIF Project has been merged with the PSL (Process Specification Language) Project at NIST."
- 15:11:05 [jorn]
- jorn has joined #prov
- 15:11:17 [paolo]
- James: someone (Deb?) proposed avoiding names that are existing words, because it makes it harder to search for them
- 15:11:19 [MacTed]
- PIL sounds like a pill, which often has negative connotation. has 130MM results on Google.
- 15:11:19 [MacTed]
- PIF is a scoffing sound in American English, if not elsewhere. has 18MM results on Google.
- 15:11:19 [MacTed]
- PAST is a common word, which is itself problematic...
- 15:11:22 [tlebo]
- difficulty to search for the standard, e.g. "past" is already a word.
- 15:11:40 [Zakim]
- +??P63
- 15:11:48 [jorn]
- zakim, ??p63 is me
- 15:11:48 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:11:48 [JimMcCusker]
- PAS, then?
- 15:11:54 [stain]
- (but PASTm, PASTl etc. would be quite unique)
- 15:12:03 [stain]
- JimMcCusker: french word
- 15:12:12 [JimMcCusker]
- true.
- 15:12:27 [MacTed]
- http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIF.html
- 15:12:27 [MacTed]
- http://www.acronymfinder.com/PIL.html
- 15:12:27 [MacTed]
- http://www.acronymfinder.com/PAST.html
- 15:12:39 [stain]
- yes, w3 has very high google rating
- 15:12:42 [paolo]
- Tim: Deb concerned that existing words would make google searches less effective
- 15:12:47 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:12:50 [Luc]
- ack jch
- 15:13:15 [smiles]
- q+
- 15:13:19 [paolo]
- satya: neg blocker for PIL: what we have is more than just a language
- 15:13:19 [stain]
- sandro, agree, and "prov:" is a good prefix as well
- 15:13:23 [stain]
- prov:Entity for instance
- 15:13:31 [MacTed]
- I also prefer PROV overall...
- 15:13:35 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:13:35 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 15:13:37 [JimMcCusker]
- What does PROV expand to?
- 15:13:47 [sandro]
- "provenance"
- 15:13:53 [stain]
- JimMcCusker, that's the problem! But we could say Provenance Standard
- 15:14:11 [paolo]
- Ted: all 3 of them have overlaps with existing names/acronyms. large number of results on google for all of them
- 15:14:16 [zednik]
- I also like PROV
- 15:14:26 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:14:28 [paolo]
- Ted: name needs not be an acronym
- 15:14:30 [tlebo]
- google; Prov (TM) Exam services
- 15:14:30 [zednik]
- PROVenance standard?
- 15:14:33 [stain]
- +1 that name does not need to be an acronym
- 15:14:41 [paolo]
- +1 for Ted -- no need to agonize over acronyms
- 15:14:42 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:14:42 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 15:14:43 [JimMcCusker]
- PROvenance Vocabulary (with apologies to Olaf)
- 15:15:08 [stain]
- take the red PIL
- 15:15:12 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:15:16 [MacTed]
- of course... PROV gets 93MM Google results
- 15:15:17 [paolo]
- Simon: "L" can stand for smt else than 'language" if we like the acronym
- 15:15:22 [smiles]
- ack smiles
- 15:15:23 [JimMcCusker]
- q+
- 15:15:44 [paolo]
- +q
- 15:15:48 [JimMcCusker]
- q-
- 15:16:11 [Luc]
- ack pao
- 15:16:21 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:16:45 [stain]
- perhaps the problem is that we voted for both short and long name at the same time.
- 15:17:30 [stain]
- For instane WSDL is fairly recognizable on the internets - does not mean anything on its own, and pronounciation is something you learn at conferences
- 15:17:59 [sandro]
- q+
- 15:18:16 [Luc]
- ack san
- 15:18:35 [tlebo]
- let's hire some marketers :-)
- 15:18:37 [paolo]
- JimMcCusker would have voted for PROV
- 15:19:02 [sandro]
- sandro: suggests doing +/- on each one.
- 15:19:20 [MacTed]
- ProvVoc - 21 results on Google. not an acronym.
- 15:19:21 [MacTed]
- :-)
- 15:19:30 [MacTed]
- pronounced "provoke"
- 15:19:40 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:19:53 [sandro]
- i'm sure we'll get to the top of google with PIF or PROV, but not PAST, maybe not PIL.
- 15:19:58 [paolo]
- Luc: how do we vote
- 15:20:11 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:20:17 [paolo]
- sandro: vote for/against until we get somewhere -- min the negatives
- 15:20:32 [Luc]
- Votes for PIL
- 15:20:36 [sandro]
- (and PIV has some real strong negatives.)
- 15:20:42 [JimMcCusker]
- -1
- 15:20:43 [tlebo]
- -1
- 15:20:45 [Lena]
- -1
- 15:20:46 [Edoardo]
- -1
- 15:20:46 [Curt]
- -1
- 15:20:47 [MacTed]
- -1
- 15:20:47 [dcorsar]
- -1
- 15:20:48 [Yogesh]
- -1
- 15:20:48 [stain]
- 0
- 15:20:49 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:20:49 [sandro]
- 0
- 15:20:53 [paolo]
- 0
- 15:20:53 [jorn]
- 0
- 15:20:56 [zednik]
- -1
- 15:21:01 [YolandaGil]
- 0
- 15:21:02 [paolo]
- satya: -1
- 15:21:15 [Luc]
- Votes for PAST
- 15:21:21 [paolo]
- +1
- 15:21:21 [sandro]
- -1 (google problems)
- 15:21:22 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:21:22 [YolandaGil]
- -1
- 15:21:22 [smiles]
- 0
- 15:21:23 [Curt]
- +1
- 15:21:23 [Yogesh]
- -1
- 15:21:23 [stain]
- +1
- 15:21:25 [JimMcCusker]
- 0
- 15:21:26 [zednik]
- 0
- 15:21:27 [Edoardo]
- 0
- 15:21:28 [jcheney]
- -1 (word)
- 15:21:28 [Lena]
- +1
- 15:21:30 [dcorsar]
- 0
- 15:21:31 [MacTed]
- -1
- 15:21:33 [jorn]
- -1
- 15:21:48 [Luc]
- Votes for PIF
- 15:21:51 [JimMcCusker]
- -1
- 15:21:53 [Yogesh]
- +1
- 15:21:53 [YolandaGil]
- +1
- 15:21:54 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:21:54 [stain]
- 0
- 15:21:55 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:21:56 [zednik]
- -1
- 15:21:58 [dcorsar]
- +1
- 15:21:59 [paolo]
- satya: +1
- 15:22:00 [Curt]
- 0
- 15:22:01 [Lena]
- +1
- 15:22:01 [sandro]
- 0
- 15:22:01 [Edoardo]
- +1
- 15:22:02 [jorn]
- 0
- 15:22:06 [MacTed]
- 0
- 15:22:07 [paolo]
- 0
- 15:22:09 [jcheney]
- 0
- 15:22:22 [Luc]
- Votes for PROV
- 15:22:25 [JimMcCusker]
- +1
- 15:22:26 [sandro]
- +1
- 15:22:26 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:22:27 [stain]
- +1
- 15:22:27 [Vinh]
- +1
- 15:22:27 [zednik]
- +1
- 15:22:27 [Curt]
- +1
- 15:22:28 [smiles]
- -1
- 15:22:31 [Lena]
- +1
- 15:22:32 [Yogesh]
- 0
- 15:22:33 [jcheney]
- 0
- 15:22:35 [MacTed]
- +1
- 15:22:36 [dcorsar]
- +1
- 15:22:36 [Zakim]
- + +1.509.554.aahh
- 15:22:36 [YolandaGil]
- +1
- 15:22:38 [paolo]
- +1
- 15:22:39 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:22:51 [stain]
- wow
- 15:23:11 [paolo]
- Luc: strong support for PROV
- 15:23:15 [Luc]
- PROVIDENCE
- 15:23:33 [paolo]
- Luc: concern: mixup with providence...
- 15:23:37 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:23:39 [jorn]
- maybe we should call it PROV IL?
- 15:23:50 [stain]
- I don't get the providence mixup
- 15:23:51 [YolandaGil]
- I don't understand what is the problem with providence
- 15:24:03 [stain]
- would that not be the problem with any of the P* names?
- 15:24:18 [JimMcCusker]
- Yeah, I use that as a joke when I give provenance talks...
- 15:24:29 [YolandaGil]
- I don't see a problem, Luc!
- 15:24:49 [MacTed]
- jorn - IL stands for?
- 15:25:03 [jorn]
- Interchange Language :)
- 15:25:04 [paolo]
- Luc: vote on PROV alone to see if there any negs
- 15:25:34 [stain]
- what kind of trademark does http://www.provexam.com/ have for 'prov' ?
- 15:25:36 [paolo]
- Luc: how would this name be used in documents?
- 15:25:43 [paolo]
- +q
- 15:25:49 [JimMcCusker]
- foobar a prov:Entity
- 15:26:10 [jorn]
- PROV IDM
- 15:26:14 [tlebo]
- Provenance Description and Interchange Framework?
- 15:26:20 [stain]
- +1 paolo
- 15:26:33 [sandro]
- "The Prov Data Model"
- 15:26:38 [sandro]
- "The Prov Data Model for Provenance Interchange"
- 15:26:43 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:26:44 [paolo]
- q-
- 15:27:00 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:27:16 [paolo]
- Luc: Simon still has a formal objection?
- 15:27:18 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 15:27:37 [Zakim]
- + +1.915.747.aaii
- 15:27:43 [jorn]
- Zakim: ??p19 is me
- 15:27:45 [Paulo]
- Paulo has joined #prov
- 15:27:48 [stain]
- "Provenance Rules On VVeb"
- 15:27:51 [paolo]
- smiles: mostly on aesthetic grounds...
- 15:27:57 [jorn]
- Zakim, ??p19 is me
- 15:27:57 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:28:06 [paolo]
- smiles: wouldn't formally object though
- 15:28:29 [jorn]
- +1
- 15:28:32 [JimMcCusker]
- +1
- 15:28:34 [stain]
- +1
- 15:28:34 [MacTed]
- +1
- 15:28:35 [smiles]
- +1
- 15:28:36 [paolo]
- action to emails the WG announcing that PROV is the proposed name
- 15:28:36 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - to
- 15:28:41 [zednik]
- +1
- 15:29:05 [Luc]
- TOPIC: Primer Document
- 15:29:15 [Luc]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Sep/0042.html
- 15:29:23 [stain]
- http://media.zibb.com/trademark/prov/30725511 should not be in conflict - "Education and entertainment"
- 15:29:29 [stain]
- (how exams are entertainment is beyond me)
- 15:29:53 [paolo]
- smiles: primer should be released alongside the model doc
- 15:30:04 [paolo]
- smiles: would generate better feedback to us
- 15:30:31 [paolo]
- smiles: as the model is still evolving, the primer would not be complete at the time of release
- 15:30:54 [Zakim]
- +??P13
- 15:31:10 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:31:17 [paolo]
- smiles: would be good to have a "webby" example, doc-based like the jou example, to align well with the W3C setting where the doc belongs
- 15:31:22 [MacTed]
- q+
- 15:31:27 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:31:27 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 15:32:02 [paolo]
- ted: a "webby" example is good, but important also to have a completely non-webby example. Science domains, or others
- 15:32:16 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:32:28 [Luc]
- ack mac
- 15:32:33 [stain]
- smiles' proposal sounds reasonable, agree to not restrict to data journalism example
- 15:32:39 [paolo]
- smiles: ok, but the initial release needs to appeal to people who will provide early feedback
- 15:32:39 [zednik]
- q+
- 15:33:05 [paolo]
- ted: agree, but that puts people in the web mindset and that may form a bias
- 15:33:31 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:33:32 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 15:33:39 [Zakim]
- + +1.216.368.aajj
- 15:33:42 [Zakim]
- - +1.706.461.aagg
- 15:33:52 [zednik]
- q-
- 15:33:53 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:34:03 [ericstephan]
- ericstephan has joined #prov
- 15:34:04 [paolo]
- Stephan: agree with Ted: danger to be perceived as provenance /of/ the web rather than /on/ the web
- 15:34:13 [stain]
- +1 ted - some simple science (high school chemistry experiment?) example should be good
- 15:34:20 [satya]
- zakim, +1.216.368.aajj is me
- 15:34:20 [Zakim]
- +satya; got it
- 15:34:52 [zednik]
- how about a simple scenario of the provenance of a physical object? example from library community?
- 15:34:53 [paolo]
- Luc: primer not starte yet. too ambitious to release by the end of month? some authors are busy on all other docs at the same time
- 15:35:40 [satya]
- q+
- 15:35:40 [paolo]
- smiles: yes, timing is tight. delayed release is a plausible option
- 15:35:41 [Zakim]
- + +1.832.386.aakk
- 15:36:04 [paolo]
- Luc @Sandro: can docs be released without primer?
- 15:36:34 [paolo]
- sandro: early drafts of model docs without primer is fine if for limited time
- 15:36:42 [paolo]
- q+
- 15:36:43 [stain]
- what if we do some third party blog posts or something?
- 15:36:50 [Luc]
- q?
- 15:36:57 [ericP]
- ericP has joined #prov
- 15:37:01 [Luc]
- ack sat
- 15:37:08 [Zakim]
- - +1.509.554.aahh
- 15:38:19 [stain]
- paolo: that people who would be writing the primer can instead focus on filling in a complete example and challenge our model
- 15:38:33 [paolo]
- Luc: would be nice to see the ASN in use in the example
- 15:39:17 [paolo]
- smiles: primer needs to be understandeable -- ASN may possibly make it harder?
- 15:39:32 [Zakim]
- + +1.509.554.aall
- 15:39:58 [paolo]
- smiles: there prior comments on going bottom up with small examples rather than a large big one example from the start
- 15:40:30 [paolo]
- q+
- 15:40:41 [Luc]
- ack pao
- 15:41:57 [stain]
- I like the flow of how instance how http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ starts very simple
- 15:41:59 [Lena]
- +1
- 15:42:01 [YolandaGil]
- I am interested Luc
- 15:42:05 [stain]
- I would not mind joining
- 15:42:09 [satya]
- after the release of the model document?
- 15:42:15 [paolo]
- Luc: who would contribute to the primer?
- 15:42:20 [tlebo]
- +1
- 15:42:24 [satya]
- +1
- 15:42:25 [paolo]
- Paolo after model / ontology doc
- 15:42:25 [MacTed]
- +1 with limited available time
- 15:42:25 [zednik]
- I am willing to contribute (+1)
- 15:42:38 [stain]
- should not have more than say 3 authors
- 15:42:44 [ericstephan]
- +1 after the connection informal report
- 15:42:45 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:42:57 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 15:43:03 [jorn]
- zakim, ??p19 is me
- 15:43:03 [Zakim]
- +jorn; got it
- 15:43:03 [paolo]
- @stian: few editors, but no hard limit on authors...?
- 15:43:13 [stain]
- agree
- 15:43:26 [paolo]
- smiles: will put a structure up on the wiki then contact interested people
- 15:43:40 [tlebo]
- The diagrams at http://www.openannotation.org/spec/beta/ are very nice
- 15:43:52 [Luc]
- topic: First Public Working Drafts
- 15:44:23 [paolo]
- Luc @sandro: formal reqs prior to releasing docs as drafts:?
- 15:45:02 [paolo]
- sandro: there's a page for that, but: need to get a persistent URL from W3C
- 15:45:04 [satya]
- @Tim: agree, can we try to use similar diagram format for the formal model draft?
- 15:45:38 [paolo]
- sandro: doc needs to be validated for format / HTML -- respec should make that easy
- 15:45:44 [paolo]
- luc: any editorial control?
- 15:45:45 [stain]
- I raised the question on namespace as well for the ontology - do we know what would make sense for now?
- 15:46:35 [paolo]
- sandro: status of specs: a very briefly explanation of what the draft is about
- 15:46:58 [tlebo]
- @satya: very much so. I'll use it to base the diagrams I am doing for model documetn
- 15:47:07 [paolo]
- Sandro: need a group resolution to publish, and need to point to it when requesting release
- 15:48:13 [sandro]
- Here's the check list for publication: http://www.w3.org/Guide/transitions
- 15:49:31 [Lena]
- +q
- 15:50:03 [paolo]
- Paolo: release timetable as agreed: Sept 16th then Sept 29 for approval
- 15:50:24 [paolo]
- satya: requesting sept 19th, then feedback cycle, then Sept 29th for approval
- 15:50:35 [paolo]
- q+
- 15:50:41 [Luc]
- ack len
- 15:51:09 [paolo]
- Lena: should we include security elements (authz) in the model/ontology?
- 15:51:28 [paolo]
- Lena: scope of model should be clear, i.e., authz out of scope
- 15:51:34 [smiles]
- q+
- 15:51:47 [tlebo]
- lena: conneg and authorization; survey results show people confuse provenance and authorization
- 15:51:54 [Luc]
- ack pao
- 15:53:40 [Luc]
- ack sm
- 15:54:43 [paolo]
- smiles @lena: the authz issue is on whether we trust what happened in the past, may not be out of scope after all
- 15:54:54 [satya]
- q+
- 15:55:17 [paolo]
- luc: first working draft offers a first look at our work, so this can be raised as a missing element that should be added
- 15:55:31 [Luc]
- ack satya
- 15:55:36 [paolo]
- satya: important not to go into the derivation part of provenance in this group
- 15:55:55 [Luc]
- Topic: Formal Model document
- 15:56:49 [paolo]
- satya: updates will be made this week, only a few people attended previous meeting.
- 15:56:56 [tlebo]
- q+
- 15:57:06 [paolo]
- satya: entailments and extension mechanisms will be addressed next
- 15:57:27 [tlebo]
- (should Stian work from the main branch in mercuruial?)
- 15:57:34 [paolo]
- satya: soliciting feedback at this stage, as Stian provided.
- 15:57:37 [Luc]
- ack tl
- 15:57:52 [paolo]
- satya: need to get the RDF encoding for the file crime scenario right as it is normative
- 15:58:25 [Zakim]
- -jorn
- 15:58:30 [stain]
- I just asked was if I should edit directly on the head branch or a sepearate feature branch
- 15:58:31 [satya]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology
- 15:59:06 [paolo]
- q+
- 15:59:24 [Luc]
- ack paol
- 15:59:38 [satya]
- Monday US 12pm ET
- 16:00:05 [tlebo]
- @stain, I think that is a weak "yes", join the head branch.
- 16:00:24 [paolo]
- satya: that was the time for the regular ontology call (skype)
- 16:00:59 [Zakim]
- +??P45
- 16:01:10 [paolo]
- satya: no complete agreement on how to express entities.
- 16:01:45 [Zakim]
- -??P10
- 16:01:50 [paolo]
- what is the id criteria to distinguish entities? (ref to the cars example)
- 16:03:17 [paolo]
- satya: what are the distinguishing attributes for different entities that refer to the same characterized thing
- 16:03:45 [Zakim]
- -[ISI]
- 16:04:19 [paolo]
- luc: there may be different perspectives about the "same car". each of them is asserted as an entity
- 16:04:38 [MacTed]
- +1
- 16:05:30 [paolo]
- paolo @satya: long ago the URI used to be called a "surrogate key"...
- 16:05:39 [Zakim]
- - +1.915.747.aaii
- 16:05:57 [Zakim]
- - +1.832.386.aakk
- 16:06:10 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:06:10 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 16:06:12 [MacTed]
- q+
- 16:07:01 [Zakim]
- -Yogesh
- 16:07:10 [JimMcCusker]
- q+
- 16:07:25 [Zakim]
- + +1.518.633.aamm
- 16:09:13 [Luc]
- ack mac
- 16:09:23 [Luc]
- ack jim
- 16:09:56 [stain]
- satya, I'll push my changes to the OWL file if that's OK. I've fixed the verbs and labels.
- 16:10:06 [stain]
- not touched the HTML but can do a search replace
- 16:10:10 [Zakim]
- -??P45
- 16:10:12 [satya]
- @Stian, thanks!
- 16:10:40 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:11:15 [stain]
- satya: do you agree on making hadParticipant super-property of used and wasControlledBy ?
- 16:11:32 [paolo]
- luc @smiles: would the car example be suitable for the primar?
- 16:12:02 [paolo]
- smiles: potentially yes, to explain what we mean by entity etc, identifying attributes, etc.
- 16:12:06 [Luc]
- q?
- 16:12:06 [stain]
- satya: that does not cover the case of compliments - some OWL expert can figure that out
- 16:12:09 [satya]
- @Stian: I had asserted that earlier, but some members want further discussion about it - so they are not related
- 16:12:21 [Zakim]
- -satya
- 16:12:22 [Zakim]
- -??P50
- 16:12:22 [Zakim]
- -paolo
- 16:12:24 [Zakim]
- - +1.509.554.aall
- 16:12:24 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 16:12:25 [Zakim]
- -??P9
- 16:12:25 [Zakim]
- -tlebo
- 16:12:26 [Zakim]
- -MacTed
- 16:12:30 [Zakim]
- -Curt
- 16:12:32 [Zakim]
- -Vinh
- 16:12:34 [Luc]
- paolo, i will do the necessary incantation here
- 16:12:39 [paolo]
- ok thanks
- 16:12:41 [stain]
- @Satya - ok, will leave that out
- 16:12:41 [Zakim]
- -Luc
- 16:12:42 [stain]
- bye
- 16:12:44 [Luc]
- thanks for scribing
- 16:12:46 [Zakim]
- - +1.518.633.aamm
- 16:12:47 [Zakim]
- -jcheney
- 16:12:58 [ericstephan]
- bye
- 16:12:58 [Zakim]
- -stain
- 16:13:02 [Luc]
- rrsagent, set log public
- 16:13:11 [Luc]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:13:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html Luc
- 16:13:12 [ericstephan]
- ericstephan has left #prov
- 16:13:19 [Luc]
- trackbot, end telcon
- 16:13:19 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:13:19 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been paolo, Curt, Luc, +1.540.449.aabb, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, Vinh, tlebo, MacTed, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, +1.518.633.aaff,
- 16:13:20 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:13:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-prov-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:13:21 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:13:21 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items
- 16:13:22 [Zakim]
- ... +1.706.461.aagg, jorn, +1.509.554.aahh, +1.915.747.aaii, satya, +1.832.386.aakk, +1.509.554.aall, +1.518.633.aamm