Meeting Record

OWL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 13 February 2008

Agenda

Present

Rinke Hoekstra, Michael Smith, Martin Dzbor, Sandro Hawke, Ian Horrocks, James Hendler, Ivan Herman, Jeremy Carroll, Bijan Parsia, Zhe Wu, Alan Ruttenberg, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Unknown Carsten, Michael Schneider, Achille Fokoue, Peter Patel-Schneider, Boris Motik, Uli Sattler, Evan Wallace

Chair

Ian Horrocks

Scribe

Uli Sattler

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes link
accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.06/Minutes link

Topics

Due and overdue Actions
Proposals to Resolve Issues (15 mins)
Issue 3
Issue 91
Issue 95
eneral Discussions (30 min)
Fragments and Conformance

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17:59:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc ←

17:59:05 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←

17:59:07 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be OWLWG

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be OWLWG ←

17:59:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot-ng; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago ←

17:59:08 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: OWL Working Group Teleconference

17:59:08 <trackbot-ng> Date: 13 February 2008

18:00:00 <alanr> I'm in

Alan Ruttenberg: I'm in ←

18:00:04 <alanr> crackling noises

Alan Ruttenberg: crackling noises ←

18:00:15 <alanr> don't know.

Alan Ruttenberg: don't know. ←

18:00:30 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:00:30 <Zakim> sorry, m_schnei, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, m_schnei, I don't know what conference this is ←

18:00:31 <alanr> fireworks - chinese new years celebrations

Alan Ruttenberg: fireworks - chinese new years celebrations ←

18:00:50 <IanH> This sounds bad!

Ian Horrocks: This sounds bad! ←

18:00:53 <sandro> zakim, this is owl

Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is owl ←

18:00:53 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM ←

18:01:02 <alanr> zakim, mute me

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←

18:01:02 <Zakim> sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

18:01:05 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is talking? ←

18:01:11 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler ←

18:01:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:16 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jar (44%), ??P15 (72%), jhendler (21%)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jar (44%), ??P15 (72%), jhendler (21%) ←

18:01:18 <hendler> zakim, who is here

James Hendler: zakim, who is here ←

18:01:18 <Zakim> hendler, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you need to end that query with '?' ←

18:01:20 <hendler> zakim, who is here?

James Hendler: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler ←

18:01:23 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:24 <m_schnei> I did not get a code by zakim

Michael Schneider: I did not get a code by zakim ←

18:01:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see jar, msmith, Sandro (muted), ??P9, ??P15, IanH, jhendler ←

18:01:30 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←

18:01:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:39 <Zakim> +Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke ←

18:01:41 <Zakim> + +7.955.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +7.955.aaaa ←

18:01:43 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←

18:01:45 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←

18:01:49 <jeremy> Zakim, aaaa is me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, aaaa is me ←

18:01:51 <sandro> zakim, drop ??P15

Sandro Hawke: zakim, drop ??P15 ←

18:01:52 <hendler> (I have muted so it isn't me)

James Hendler: (I have muted so it isn't me) ←

18:01:55 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←

18:01:57 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy; got it ←

18:01:59 <Zakim> ??P15 is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: ??P15 is being disconnected ←

18:02:00 <alanr> q-

Alan Ruttenberg: q- ←

18:02:01 <Zakim> -??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P15 ←

18:02:07 <bijan> zakim, ??P8 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P8 is me ←

18:02:07 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P15 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P15 is me ←

18:02:07 <IanH> much better -- thanks!

Ian Horrocks: much better -- thanks! ←

18:02:08 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:02:09 <jeremy> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q- ←

18:02:13 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←

18:02:15 <Zakim> sorry, m_schnei, I do not recognize a party named '??P15'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, m_schnei, I do not recognize a party named '??P15' ←

18:02:17 <jeremy> q- jeremy

Jeremy Carroll: q- jeremy ←

18:02:21 <alanr> zakim, jar is alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, jar is alanr ←

18:02:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:02:23 <sandro> So, whoever got dropped there -- you were the noise source.

Sandro Hawke: So, whoever got dropped there -- you were the noise source. ←

18:02:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:02:25 <Zakim> +Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←

18:02:27 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←

18:02:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:02:32 <sandro> q- ??P15

Sandro Hawke: q- ??P15 ←

18:02:35 <sandro> q- jar

Sandro Hawke: q- jar ←

18:02:41 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←

18:02:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:02:56 <Zakim> +MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD ←

18:02:59 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P15 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P15 is me ←

18:03:00 <Zakim> sorry, m_schnei, I do not recognize a party named '??P15'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, m_schnei, I do not recognize a party named '??P15' ←

18:03:01 <bcuencag> Zakim, ??P11 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←

18:03:01 <Zakim> +bcuencag; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencag; got it ←

18:03:12 <MartinD> zakim, mute me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←

18:03:12 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←

18:03:13 <IanH> yes, followed by #

Ian Horrocks: yes, followed by # ←

18:03:25 <Zakim> + +1.781.271.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.271.aabb ←

18:03:36 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←

18:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see alanr, msmith, Sandro, ??P9, IanH, jhendler, Rinke, jeremy (muted), Ivan, bijan (muted), Zhe, bcuencag, MartinD (muted), +1.781.271.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see alanr, msmith, Sandro, ??P9, IanH, jhendler, Rinke, jeremy (muted), Ivan, bijan (muted), Zhe, bcuencag, MartinD (muted), +1.781.271.aabb ←

18:03:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Achille, Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Achille, Zhe, bcuencag, jeremy, hendler, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, alanr, msmith, IanH, Carsten, bijan, uli, MartinD, sandro, ewallace, ←

18:03:43 <Zakim> ... trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot-ng ←

18:03:44 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←

18:03:45 <Zakim> +Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten ←

18:03:47 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P9 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P9 is me ←

18:03:47 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←

18:03:52 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille ←

18:03:52 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←

18:03:59 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←

18:03:59 <alanr> do we have a scribe?

Alan Ruttenberg: do we have a scribe? ←

18:04:03 <alanr> Joanne?

Alan Ruttenberg: Joanne? ←

18:04:07 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me ←

18:04:07 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←

18:04:15 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:04:15 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←

18:04:16 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←

18:04:23 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p24 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p24 is me ←

18:04:23 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←

18:04:35 <sandro> keep trying, Uli!   :-)

Sandro Hawke: keep trying, Uli! :-) ←

18:05:07 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:05:07 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:05:14 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←

18:05:29 <uli> zakim, ??P28 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P28 is me ←

18:05:29 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←

18:05:45 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←

18:05:45 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←

18:07:01 <pfps> zakim, pfps_ is pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, pfps_ is pfps ←

18:07:01 <Zakim> sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named 'pfps_'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps, I do not recognize a party named 'pfps_' ←

18:07:06 <sandro> scribenick: uli

(Scribe set to Uli Sattler)

18:07:15 <uli> me is ready

me is ready ←

18:07:18 <hendler> joanne - you need to use port 6665 got MIT - so you need to do /join #owl:6665

James Hendler: joanne - you need to use port 6665 got MIT - so you need to do /join #owl:6665 ←

18:07:19 <bcuencag> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←

18:07:19 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted ←

18:07:26 <bijan> chair: Ian Horrocks

18:07:45 <uli> no agenda amendments

no agenda amendments ←

18:07:55 <pfps> not really, but I'm not going to object

Peter Patel-Schneider: not really, but I'm not going to object ←

18:08:07 <Rinke> don't think anything has changed in the minutes

Rinke Hoekstra: don't think anything has changed in the minutes ←

18:08:19 <uli> Ian: can we accept previous minutes?

Ian Horrocks: can we accept previous minutes? ←

18:08:21 <jeremy> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me ←

18:08:21 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:08:28 <IanH> Proposal: accept previous previous minutes

PROPOSED: accept previous previous minutes ←

18:08:41 <pfps> actually, the minutes are just fixed

Peter Patel-Schneider: actually, the minutes are just fixed ←

18:08:55 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes ←

18:09:09 <hendler> +1

James Hendler: +1 ←

18:09:10 <uli> +1

+1 ←

18:09:18 <Rinke> ok

Rinke Hoekstra: ok ←

18:09:19 <msmith> +1 to accept, they improved much in the interim week

Michael Smith: +1 to accept, they improved much in the interim week ←

18:09:20 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:09:20 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1 ←

18:09:24 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:09:30 <IanH> Resolved: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes

RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes ←

18:09:40 <msmith> for previous minutes (Feb 6), new actions were not linked to tracker

Michael Smith: for previous minutes (Feb 6), new actions were not linked to tracker ←

18:09:48 <jeremy> -0

Jeremy Carroll: -0 ←

18:09:52 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

18:09:52 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc#T18-09-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc#T18-09-52 ←

18:10:04 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←

18:10:21 <pfps> huh? my action was set up OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: huh? my action was set up OK ←

18:10:30 <Rinke> some links to issues are missing

Rinke Hoekstra: some links to issues are missing ←

18:10:37 <IanH> Propose: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.06/Minutes

Scribe problem: the name 'Propose' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Propose: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.06/Minutes [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←

18:10:48 <Rinke> not a big deal, but we rejected minutes in the past on this ground

Rinke Hoekstra: not a big deal, but we rejected minutes in the past on this ground ←

18:10:48 <pfps> 30 Jan minutes were fixed up in the last hour or so

Peter Patel-Schneider: 30 Jan minutes were fixed up in the last hour or so ←

18:10:59 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:11:04 <uli> +1

+1 ←

18:11:06 <Rinke> (this is about feb 6 right?)

Rinke Hoekstra: (this is about feb 6 right?) ←

18:11:08 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:11:10 <alanr> +1 to close with carsten adding links

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to close with carsten adding links ←

18:11:12 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:11:14 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1 ←

18:11:20 <hendler> +1 (permanent plus one to accepting all minutes at any time)

James Hendler: +1 (permanent plus one to accepting all minutes at any time) ←

18:11:21 <msmith> +1 to trusting Carsten

Michael Smith: +1 to trusting Carsten ←

18:11:22 <Carsten> sure

Unknown Carsten: sure ←

18:11:25 <jeremy> 0

Jeremy Carroll: 0 ←

18:11:50 <IanH> Resolved: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.06/Minutes

RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.06/Minutes ←

18:11:55 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

18:11:55 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc#T18-11-55

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/13-owl-irc#T18-11-55 ←

18:12:11 <pfps> F2F page is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2

Peter Patel-Schneider: F2F page is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2 ←

18:12:21 <uli> Agenda: Washington F2F

18:12:41 <alanr> Agenda amendment: Next monday meeting (1.5 weeks) should it be UFDTF or Imports?

Alan Ruttenberg: Agenda amendment: Next monday meeting (1.5 weeks) should it be UFDTF or Imports? ←

18:12:46 <uli> pfps: F2F2 is right after OWLEd, registration is open

Peter Patel-Schneider: F2F2 is right after OWLEd, registration is open ←

18:12:48 <pfps> OWLED registration at http://www.webont.org/owled/2008dc/registration.html

Peter Patel-Schneider: OWLED registration at http://www.webont.org/owled/2008dc/registration.html ←

18:13:08 <uli> pfps: OWLEd papers are due this friday

Peter Patel-Schneider: OWLEd papers are due this friday ←

18:13:38 <ewallace> q+

Evan Wallace: q+ ←

18:13:38 <alanr> +1 observers to be allowed

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 observers to be allowed ←

18:13:44 <sandro> Rinke, did you see my e-mail about the wiki last night?

Sandro Hawke: Rinke, did you see my e-mail about the wiki last night? ←

18:13:51 <uli> Ian: so far, nobody has objected to observers, provided they stick to conditions in email

Ian Horrocks: so far, nobody has objected to observers, provided they stick to conditions in email ←

18:13:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:14:05 <bijan> ++1 to letting observers

Bijan Parsia: ++1 to letting observers ←

18:14:12 <sandro> Rinke, what is your wiki login?

Sandro Hawke: Rinke, what is your wiki login? ←

18:14:14 <uli> ewallace: are there restrictions on the number of observers?

Evan Wallace: are there restrictions on the number of observers? ←

18:14:54 <ewallace> ewallace is Evan

Evan Wallace: ewallace is Evan ←

18:15:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:15:10 <IanH> ack ewallace

Ian Horrocks: ack ewallace ←

18:15:19 <uli> pfps: reports that Clark&Parsia will sponsor dinner, NIST will possibly sponsor the room, but we still need fees

Peter Patel-Schneider: reports that Clark&Parsia will sponsor dinner, NIST will possibly sponsor the room, but we still need fees ←

18:15:31 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:15:36 <hendler> +1 to chairs having to give permission to observers (so something is in the log)

James Hendler: +1 to chairs having to give permission to observers (so something is in the log) ←

18:16:13 <sandro> Rinke, this is an odd question, but are you sure you're logged in?   Sometimes the wiki logs people out.

Sandro Hawke: Rinke, this is an odd question, but are you sure you're logged in? Sometimes the wiki logs people out. ←

18:16:17 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:16:21 <uli> jluciano: wonders whether her organisation can sponsor (?)

Joanne Luciano: wonders whether her organisation can sponsor (?) ←

18:16:38 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:17:04 <uli> Evan: has never been to a W3C F2F with fees

Evan Wallace: has never been to a W3C F2F with fees ←

18:17:25 <uli> Sandro: agrees that fees are very rare

Sandro Hawke: agrees that fees are very rare ←

18:17:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:17:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:18:10 <uli> pfps: suggests to drop lunches which will then reduce fees to 150dollars

Peter Patel-Schneider: suggests to drop lunches which will then reduce fees to 150dollars ←

18:18:12 <hendler> I will have to see if my organization will let us pay a fee for this.

James Hendler: I will have to see if my organization will let us pay a fee for this. ←

18:18:21 <alanr> breaks,even without food....

Alan Ruttenberg: breaks,even without food.... ←

18:18:30 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:18:35 <ewallace> Evan didn't say anything about fees

Evan Wallace: Evan didn't say anything about fees ←

18:18:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:18:59 <uli> Bijan: F2F registration page is closed

Bijan Parsia: F2F registration page is closed ←

18:19:02 <IanH> ack bijan

Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←

18:19:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:19:07 <jeremy> i believe the comment ascribed to evan was made by jim

Jeremy Carroll: i believe the comment ascribed to evan was made by jim ←

18:19:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:19:22 <uli> Evan, I have difficulties hearing who is who...

Evan, I have difficulties hearing who is who... ←

18:19:42 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:19:42 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:19:52 <uli> alanr: suggests to bring own foot/take food payment out of general bill

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests to bring own foot/take food payment out of general bill ←

18:19:58 <hendler> the Wiki page does not seem to have a link to registration - am I missing something?

James Hendler: the Wiki page does not seem to have a link to registration - am I missing something? ←

18:20:23 <uli> sandro: easy food is more valuable due to time saving

Sandro Hawke: easy food is more valuable due to time saving ←

18:20:38 <uli> pfps:  please sign up

Peter Patel-Schneider: please sign up ←

18:20:46 <pfps> sign up at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People

Peter Patel-Schneider: sign up at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/F2F2_People ←

18:20:59 <uli> Agenda: Action items status

18:21:11 <uli> Action 78:

ACTION-78: ←

18:21:33 <uli> Ian: action 78 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-78 seems to be done ←

18:21:44 <uli> Ian: action 80 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-80 seems to be done ←

18:21:52 <uli> Ian: action 81 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-81 seems to be done ←

18:22:15 <uli> Ian: action 82 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-82 seems to be done ←

18:22:32 <uli> Ian: action 83 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-83 seems to be done ←

18:22:51 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda ←

18:23:02 <MartinD> MartinD has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda

Martin Dzbor: MartinD has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda ←

18:23:12 <bijan> bijan has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda

Bijan Parsia: bijan has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda ←

18:23:32 <uli> Ian: action 84 seems to be done

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-84 seems to be done ←

18:23:46 <bijan> bijan has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda

Bijan Parsia: bijan has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Agenda ←

18:23:47 <uli> Topic: Due and overdue Actions

1. Due and overdue Actions

18:24:22 <uli> alanr: regarding action 43 I will ...?

Alan Ruttenberg: regarding ACTION-43 I will ...? ←

18:24:56 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:25:14 <alanr> 43 stays open, tracking Sandro. 62 closed.

Alan Ruttenberg: 43 stays open, tracking Sandro. 62 closed. ←

18:25:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:25:20 <bijan> I can add stuff

Bijan Parsia: I can add stuff ←

18:25:23 <uli> sandro: in 2-3 weeks, some code will be cleaned up, and people who want to put up test cases now, please talk to me

Sandro Hawke: in 2-3 weeks, some code will be cleaned up, and people who want to put up test cases now, please talk to me ←

18:25:26 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

18:25:28 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

18:25:41 <uli> Ian: action 72

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-72 ←

18:25:55 <uli> alanr: will be continued, will change deadline

Alan Ruttenberg: will be continued, will change deadline ←

18:26:09 <uli> Topic: Proposals to Resolve Issues (15 mins)

2. Proposals to Resolve Issues (15 mins)

18:26:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:26:28 <jeremy> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←

18:26:28 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:26:33 <uli> Topic: Issue 3

3. ISSUE-3

18:26:36 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

18:26:42 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:27:34 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:27:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:27:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:27:38 <uli> Ian: the proposal is to keep the status quo from OWL 1.0

Ian Horrocks: the proposal is to keep the status quo from OWL 1.0 ←

18:27:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:27:46 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:27:47 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:28:02 <pfps> q+ to agree to counterproposal, and thus postpone

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to agree to counterproposal, and thus postpone ←

18:28:12 <uli> bmotik: there is a counterproposal and we should postpone the discussion to next week

Boris Motik: there is a counterproposal and we should postpone the discussion to next week ←

18:28:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:28:45 <uli> bmotik: use blank nodes in OWL11, so to be more compatible with RDF, use SPARQL-like semantics

Boris Motik: use blank nodes in OWL11, so to be more compatible with RDF, use SPARQL-like semantics ←

18:29:00 <m_schnei> +1 to boris

Michael Schneider: +1 to boris ←

18:29:01 <uli> pfps: agrees with Boris to postpone to next week

Peter Patel-Schneider: agrees with Boris to postpone to next week ←

18:29:12 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to agree to counterproposal, and thus postpone

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to agree to counterproposal, and thus postpone ←

18:29:18 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:29:18 <uli> Topic: Issue 69

4. ISSUE-91

18:29:31 <Rinke> s/69/91

18:29:35 <uli> Ian: Boris has added ontology annotations, send an email, ...

Ian Horrocks: Boris has added ontology annotations, sent an email, ... ←

18:29:40 <uli> s/send/sent

18:29:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:29:54 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:30:23 <uli> Ian: proposes to close Issue ??

Ian Horrocks: proposes to close Issue ?? ←

18:30:29 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:30:48 <alanr> q- alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q- alanr ←

18:30:49 <uli> alanr: sees open questions/possible issues regarding ??

Alan Ruttenberg: sees open questions/possible issues regarding 91 ←

18:30:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:02 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:31:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:26 <jeremy> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←

18:31:34 <uli> s/??/91

18:31:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:35 <jeremy> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me ←

18:31:36 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

18:32:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:32:09 <IanH> ack jeremy

Ian Horrocks: ack jeremy ←

18:32:10 <m_schnei> q+ to postpone 91 to next week: want to think about alan's mail

Michael Schneider: q+ to postpone 91 to next week: want to think about alan's mail ←

18:32:16 <uli> jeremy: mentions as example owl:imports which is not an annotation

Jeremy Carroll: mentions as example owl:imports which is not an annotation ←

18:32:17 <alanr> NOTE: The ontology-import construct owl:imports and the ontology-versioning constructs owl:priorVersion, owl:backwardCompatibleWith and owl:incompatibleWith are defined in the OWL vocabulary as instances of the OWL built-in class owl:OntologyProperty. Instances of owl:OntologyProperty must have the class owl:Ontology as their domain and range. It is permitted to define other instances of...

Scribe problem: the name 'NOTE' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown NOTE: The ontology-import construct owl:imports and the ontology-versioning constructs owl:priorVersion, owl:backwardCompatibleWith and owl:incompatibleWith are defined in the OWL vocabulary as instances of the OWL built-in class owl:OntologyProperty. Instances of owl:OntologyProperty must have the class owl:Ontology as their domain and range. It is permitted to define other instances of... [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

18:32:18 <alanr> ...owl:OntologyProperty. In OWL DL for ontology properties the same constraints hold as those specified for annotation properties in Sec. 7.1.

Alan Ruttenberg: ...owl:OntologyProperty. In OWL DL for ontology properties the same constraints hold as those specified for annotation properties in Sec. 7.1. ←

18:32:24 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#Annotations

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/#Annotations ←

18:32:24 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q- ←

18:32:39 <uli> Ian: this sounds to complicated to be resolved today, we will postpone

Ian Horrocks: this sounds to complicated to be resolved today, we will postpone ←

18:32:59 <bijan> directive ::= 'Annotation(' ontologyPropertyID ontologyID ')'

Bijan Parsia: directive ::= 'Annotation(' ontologyPropertyID ontologyID ')' ←

18:32:59 <bijan> 	 | 'Annotation(' annotationPropertyID URIreference ')'

Bijan Parsia: | 'Annotation(' annotationPropertyID URIreference ')' ←

18:33:03 <uli> Action: on jeremy to send an email proposing a resolution of 91

ACTION: on jeremy to send an email proposing a resolution of 91 ←

18:33:03 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - on

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - on ←

18:33:12 <msmith> q+ to suggest table be non-normative

Michael Smith: q+ to suggest table be non-normative ←

18:33:21 <uli> Action: jeremy to send an email proposing a resolution of 91

ACTION: jeremy to send an email proposing a resolution of 91 ←

18:33:21 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-85 - Send an email proposing a resolution of 91 [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-85 - Send an email proposing a resolution of 91 [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20]. ←

18:33:22 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:33:29 <jeremy> action: jeremy to send proposal for issue-91 ontology property

ACTION: jeremy to send proposal for ISSUE-91 ontology property ←

18:33:29 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-86 - Send proposal for issue-91 ontology property [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-86 - Send proposal for ISSUE-91 ontology property [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20]. ←

18:33:33 <uli> Topic: Issue 95

5. ISSUE-95

18:33:48 <msmith> q?

Michael Smith: q? ←

18:33:49 <jeremy> oops

Jeremy Carroll: oops ←

18:33:50 <uli> Ian: there is now a table relating facets to datatypes

Ian Horrocks: there is now a table relating facets to datatypes ←

18:33:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:33:58 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith ←

18:33:58 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to suggest table be non-normative

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to suggest table be non-normative ←

18:34:02 <hendler> q+

James Hendler: q+ ←

18:34:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:34:09 <pfps> +1 to resolution

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to resolution ←

18:34:12 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:34:15 <uli> msmith: would prefer this table being non-normative

Michael Smith: would prefer this table being non-normative ←

18:34:15 <hendler> q-

James Hendler: q- ←

18:34:15 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:34:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:34:36 <uli> bmotik: we need to restrict the datarange inside datatype restrictions

Boris Motik: we need to restrict the datarange inside datatype restrictions ←

18:34:53 <bijan> +1 to boris

Bijan Parsia: +1 to boris ←

18:34:54 <uli> bmotik: without such a restriction, this table is meaningless

Boris Motik: without such a restriction, this table is meaningless ←

18:34:55 <m_schnei> q+ to table

Michael Schneider: q+ to table ←

18:35:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:35:08 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:35:18 <alanr> alan doesn't recall that.

Alan Ruttenberg: alan doesn't recall that. ←

18:35:27 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:35:32 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

18:35:33 <alanr> I suggest resolving as is

Alan Ruttenberg: I suggest resolving as is ←

18:35:46 <ewallace> Boris' suggestion sounds overly restrictive

Evan Wallace: Boris' suggestion sounds overly restrictive ←

18:35:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:35:55 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:35:55 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←

18:36:03 <bijan> +1 to resolving it for now...we can revisit it as we consider, e.g., n-ary

Bijan Parsia: +1 to resolving it for now...we can revisit it as we consider, e.g., n-ary ←

18:36:23 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:36:23 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←

18:36:24 <uli> m_schnei: is missing explanation of meaning in this table

Michael Schneider: is missing explanation of meaning in this table ←

18:36:31 <uli> bmotik: agrees

Boris Motik: agrees ←

18:36:50 <bmotik> -1 to resolve as is

Boris Motik: -1 to resolve as is ←

18:36:53 <m_schnei> -0

Michael Schneider: -0 ←

18:36:53 <jeremy> -0

Jeremy Carroll: -0 ←

18:36:54 <alanr> I vote with boris

Alan Ruttenberg: I vote with boris ←

18:36:56 <ewallace> -1

Evan Wallace: -1 ←

18:37:08 <uli> +1 to postpone with n-ary

+1 to postpone with n-ary ←

18:37:24 <uli> Ian: is disappointed :(

Ian Horrocks: is disappointed :( ←

18:37:30 <jeremy> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me ←

18:37:30 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←

18:37:36 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, unmute me ←

18:37:36 <Zakim> Carsten should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should no longer be muted ←

18:37:39 <uli> Topic: eneral Discussions (30 min)

6. eneral Discussions (30 min)

18:37:44 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Discussion

Ian Horrocks: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Discussion ←

18:37:56 <uli> Topic: Fragments and Conformance

7. Fragments and Conformance

18:38:06 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:12 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:38:12 <Zakim> m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei ←

18:38:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:18 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q- ←

18:38:18 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:38:23 <uli> Ian: do we want to retain OWL Lite

Ian Horrocks: do we want to retain OWL Lite ←

18:38:23 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:38:23 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:38:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:36 <uli> bijan: we shouldn't retain OWL lite

Bijan Parsia: we shouldn't retain OWL lite ←

18:38:46 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:38:53 <pfps> +1 to not retaining OWL Lite

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to not retaining OWL Lite ←

18:39:04 <hendler> q+

James Hendler: q+ ←

18:39:05 <uli> bijan: OWL lite is difficult for an implementor

Bijan Parsia: OWL lite is difficult for an implementor ←

18:39:08 <Carsten> +1

Unknown Carsten: +1 ←

18:39:14 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:39:19 <alanr> +1 to not retaining OWL Lite (as currently defined) - perhaps retain the name and brand some other fragment

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to not retaining OWL Lite (as currently defined) - perhaps retain the name and brand some other fragment ←

18:39:23 <bmotik> +1 to bijan

Boris Motik: +1 to bijan ←

18:39:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:39:27 <uli> bijan: doesn't know of any OWL lite tools

Bijan Parsia: doesn't know of any OWL lite tools ←

18:39:35 <jeremy> q+ jluciano

Jeremy Carroll: q+ jluciano ←

18:39:38 <alanr> q+ joanne

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ joanne ←

18:39:43 <alanr> q- joanne

Alan Ruttenberg: q- joanne ←

18:40:24 <uli> hendler: thought he could suggest to let OWL lite go, but has heard people screaming out about this

James Hendler: thought he could suggest to let OWL lite go, but has heard people screaming out about this ←

18:40:41 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:40:42 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:40:44 <uli> hendler: sees external critique for dropping

James Hendler: sees external critique for dropping ←

18:40:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:40:54 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler ←

18:41:04 <IanH> ack jluciano

Ian Horrocks: ack jluciano ←

18:41:10 <bcuencag> +q

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +q ←

18:41:15 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+ ←

18:41:15 <uli> jluciano: suggests to asks for input by OWL lite community

Joanne Luciano: suggests to asks for input by OWL lite community ←

18:41:23 <alanr> q+ to suggest note explaining old OWL Lite's relation to OWL DL, emphasizing similar actual complexity

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to suggest note explaining old OWL Lite's relation to OWL DL, emphasizing similar actual complexity ←

18:41:25 <bcuencag> Zakim, unmute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:41:25 <Zakim> bcuencag should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should no longer be muted ←

18:41:40 <uli> Ian: this would be helpful

Ian Horrocks: this would be helpful ←

18:41:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:41:53 <bcuencag> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←

18:41:53 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted ←

18:41:54 <alanr> q- pfps

Alan Ruttenberg: q- pfps ←

18:41:57 <bijan> I'll note that you can stay in owl lite

Bijan Parsia: I'll note that you can stay in owl lite ←

18:41:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:42:03 <hendler> q+

James Hendler: q+ ←

18:42:05 <bijan> even if we don't sanction it

Bijan Parsia: even if we don't sanction it ←

18:42:06 <uli> pfps: if users were upset, they should speak out

Peter Patel-Schneider: if users were upset, they should speak out ←

18:42:08 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

18:42:08 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to suggest note explaining old OWL Lite's relation to OWL DL, emphasizing similar actual complexity

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to suggest note explaining old OWL Lite's relation to OWL DL, emphasizing similar actual complexity ←

18:42:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:43:08 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:43:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:43:12 <bcuencag> Zakim, unmute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:43:12 <Zakim> bcuencag should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should no longer be muted ←

18:43:16 <uli> alanr: hears that people using OWL lite are worried. Suggests to draft note with an explanation of how OWL lite relates to OWL DL, and suggest to not use it

Alan Ruttenberg: hears that people using OWL lite are worried. Suggests to draft note with an explanation of how OWL lite relates to OWL DL, and suggest to not use it ←

18:43:30 <IanH> ack bcuencag

Ian Horrocks: ack bcuencag ←

18:43:32 <jeremy> q+ to suggest non computational advantages

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest non computational advantages ←

18:43:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:43:47 <m_schnei> +q

Michael Schneider: +q ←

18:43:55 <uli> ...but to use OWL DL instead because it is so close and not computationally much cheaper

...but to use OWL DL instead because it is so close and not computationally much cheaper ←

18:44:05 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q- ←

18:44:07 <bcuencag> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←

18:44:07 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted ←

18:44:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:44:18 <uli> bcuencag: wonders what OWL lite1.1 would be and who would specify it

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: wonders what OWL lite1.1 would be and who would specify it ←

18:44:19 <Carsten> q+

Unknown Carsten: q+ ←

18:44:51 <bijan> Yeah, it's not like we can forbid staying inside owl lit!

Bijan Parsia: Yeah, it's not like we can forbid staying inside owl lit! ←

18:44:54 <uli> ivan: wonders what the question is: do we want to say that OWL lite does no longer exist

Ivan Herman: wonders what the question is: do we want to say that OWL lite does no longer exist ←

18:44:59 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←

18:45:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:45:30 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:45:33 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

18:45:40 <bijan> q+ to refute this view of jim's

Bijan Parsia: q+ to refute this view of jim's ←

18:45:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:45:59 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler ←

18:46:02 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler ←

18:46:05 <uli> hendler: we are not the entire OWL community, but we are being told explicitly that backward compatibilty is important

James Hendler: we are not the entire OWL community, but we are being told explicitly that backward compatibilty is important ←

18:46:19 <alanr> I think we leave it exactly as is

Alan Ruttenberg: I think we leave it exactly as is ←

18:46:29 <uli> hendler: we need to ask openly for input

James Hendler: we need to ask openly for input ←

18:46:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:46:55 <uli> Ian: Jim, what does it mean to keep OWL lite?

Ian Horrocks: Jim, what does it mean to keep OWL lite? ←

18:46:55 <alanr> q+ to answer: Keeping it means no change.

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to answer: Keeping it means no change. ←

18:47:26 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+ ←

18:47:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:47:30 <alanr> q+ to elaborate it *will* be compatible, as OWL 1.1 will be back compatible.

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to elaborate it *will* be compatible, as OWL 1.1 will be back compatible. ←

18:47:33 <uli> hendler: OWL lite is subset of OWL1.0, and we could update the this subset description???

James Hendler: OWL lite is subset of OWL1.0, and we could update the this subset description??? ←

18:47:36 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

18:47:36 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to suggest non computational advantages

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to suggest non computational advantages ←

18:48:05 <alanr> q+ to also remind: Using OWL Light == Using OWL DL

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to also remind: Using OWL Light == Using OWL DL ←

18:48:08 <uli> jeremy: sees 3 ways: (1) explicit deprecation, (2) silence (don't mention "lite", (3) Jim's suggestion

Jeremy Carroll: sees 3 ways: (1) explicit deprecation, (2) silence (don't mention "lite", (3) Jim's suggestion ←

18:48:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:48:43 <hendler> OWL lite 1.0 != OWL DL 1.1

James Hendler: OWL lite 1.0 != OWL DL 1.1 ←

18:49:01 <alanr> q+ to say "broken" isn't right word. "not useful to distinguish from OWL DL"

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say "broken" isn't right word. "not useful to distinguish from OWL DL" ←

18:49:17 <sandro> (option 4 = apply the "OWL Lite" brand to some new fragment of OWL 1.1)

Sandro Hawke: (option 4 = apply the "OWL Lite" brand to some new fragment of OWL 1.1) ←

18:49:23 <uli> jeremy: whereas OWL lite *is* close to OWL DL, there might be other advantages, eg, outside the implementors/complexity area

Jeremy Carroll: whereas OWL lite *is* close to OWL DL, there might be other advantages, eg, outside the implementors/complexity area ←

18:49:38 <uli> jeremy: eg, it is easier to learn since it has fewer constructs

Jeremy Carroll: eg, it is easier to learn since it has fewer constructs ←

18:49:39 <bcuencag> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←

18:49:39 <Zakim> bcuencag was already muted, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag was already muted, bcuencag ←

18:49:46 <msmith> q+ to ask what about owl lite would *need* updating

Michael Smith: q+ to ask what about owl lite would *need* updating ←

18:50:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:50:19 <hendler> I note that the restriction of 1/0 on cardinality is one a number of developers have told me saves them a lot of time/effort because cardinality reasoning in general is difficult (in the open worlld)

James Hendler: I note that the restriction of 1/0 on cardinality is one a number of developers have told me saves them a lot of time/effort because cardinality reasoning in general is difficult (in the open worlld) ←

18:50:20 <bijan> I'll note that my objections to owl lite is to what it does to users as well...inmy experience what it encourages is *unfortuneate* froma  user pov

Bijan Parsia: I'll note that my objections to owl lite is to what it does to users as well...inmy experience what it encourages is *unfortuneate* froma user pov ←

18:50:36 <uli> jeremy: Lite might also discourage the use of potentially opresive constructs

Jeremy Carroll: Lite might also discourage the use of potentially opresive constructs ←

18:50:36 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←

18:50:39 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q- ←

18:50:47 <ivan> ack Carsten

Ivan Herman: ack Carsten ←

18:50:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:51:01 <uli> Ian: another option is to keep the name, but change its definition

Ian Horrocks: another option is to keep the name, but change its definition ←

18:51:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:51:24 <uli> Carsten: suggests to first discuss fragments in general before discussing them individually

Unknown Carsten: suggests to first discuss fragments in general before discussing them individually ←

18:51:48 <alanr> q+ to specify: any current OWL Lite document is a valid OWL 1.1 document

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to specify: any current OWL Lite document is a valid OWL 1.1 document ←

18:52:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:52:15 <uli> Carsten: we should have an idea about our opinion regarding fragments before putting loads of work in

Unknown Carsten: we should have an idea about our opinion regarding fragments before putting loads of work in ←

18:52:51 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q- ←

18:52:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:52:55 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

18:52:55 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to answer: Keeping it means no change. and to elaborate it *will* be compatible, as OWL 1.1 will be back compatible. and to also remind: Using OWL Light == Using

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to answer: Keeping it means no change. and to elaborate it *will* be compatible, as OWL 1.1 will be back compatible. and to also remind: Using OWL Light == Using ←

18:52:58 <Zakim> ... OWL DL and to say "broken" isn't right word. "not useful to distinguish from OWL DL" and to specify: any current OWL Lite document is a valid OWL 1.1 document

Zakim IRC Bot: ... OWL DL and to say "broken" isn't right word. "not useful to distinguish from OWL DL" and to specify: any current OWL Lite document is a valid OWL 1.1 document ←

18:52:59 <uli> Ian: cut OWL lite discussion and move on to next point

Ian Horrocks: cut OWL lite discussion and move on to next point ←

18:53:46 <uli> alanr: suggests to keep OWL lite to not force people/users to change what they are doing

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests to keep OWL lite to not force people/users to change what they are doing ←

18:54:06 <uli> alanr: we keep a note saying that every OWL lite ontology is an OWL11 ontology

Alan Ruttenberg: we keep a note saying that every OWL lite ontology is an OWL11 ontology ←

18:54:26 <uli> alanr: suggests to not use "broken" for Lite but "not well motivated"

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests to not use "broken" for Lite but "not well motivated" ←

18:54:39 <Carsten> +1 to alan

Unknown Carsten: +1 to alan ←

18:54:46 <hendler> -1 to Alam

James Hendler: -1 to Alam ←

18:55:01 <alanr> who's alam?

Alan Ruttenberg: who's alam? ←

18:55:04 <msmith> +1 to alanr

Michael Smith: +1 to alanr ←

18:55:06 <bcuencag> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:55:08 <ewallace> 0

Evan Wallace: 0 ←

18:55:13 <uli> alanr: suggest to users to how to do things in the future, *if* they want to do things differently

Alan Ruttenberg: suggest to users to how to do things in the future, *if* they want to do things differently ←

18:55:14 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:55:20 <uli> +1 to alanr

+1 to alanr ←

18:55:25 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:55:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:55:34 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:55:34 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted ←

18:55:37 <ivan> ack m_schnei

Ivan Herman: ack m_schnei ←

18:56:21 <uli> m_schnei: OWL lite would be different to OWL lite11 due to punning

Michael Schneider: OWL lite would be different to OWL lite11 due to punning ←

18:56:41 <jeremy> very god point!

Jeremy Carroll: very god point! ←

18:56:56 <jeremy> ^o^oo

Jeremy Carroll: ^o^oo ←

18:57:05 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:57:05 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←

18:57:30 <alanr> I don't see that.

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't see that. ←

18:57:36 <uli> hendler: we made some changes to OWL DL which might cause problems with OWL lite

James Hendler: we made some changes to OWL DL which might cause problems with OWL lite ←

18:57:36 <IanH> I don't see it either

Ian Horrocks: I don't see it either ←

18:57:41 <msmith> can we action a description of such constructs?

Michael Smith: can we action a description of such constructs? ←

18:57:54 <alanr> +1 to review and check that OWL Lite is still subset.

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to review and check that OWL Lite is still subset. ←

18:58:03 <alanr> Due diligence. I think we have consensus

Alan Ruttenberg: Due diligence. I think we have consensus ←

18:58:09 <uli> hendler: we changed the semantics, so we should have change lite's semantics

James Hendler: we changed the semantics, so we should have change lite's semantics ←

18:58:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:58:27 <Carsten> I don't understand. Why is OWL 1.0 Light without punning not a fragment of OWL 1.1, which *allows*, but doesn't *enforce* punning?

Unknown Carsten: I don't understand. Why is OWL 1.0 Light without punning not a fragment of OWL 1.1, which *allows*, but doesn't *enforce* punning? ←

18:58:29 <Zakim> - +1.781.271.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.781.271.aabb ←

18:58:37 <uli> Ian: says that we have true compatibility with OWL DL, and therefor also with OWL Lite

Ian Horrocks: says that we have true compatibility with OWL DL, and therefor also with OWL Lite ←

18:59:01 <uli> alanr: suggests we do check Ian's compatibility understanding

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests we do check Ian's compatibility understanding ←

18:59:02 <jeremy> +1 to jim

Jeremy Carroll: +1 to jim ←

18:59:19 <m_schnei> OWL-1.0-Lite onts would exactly mean the same in 1.1, *but* having OWL-1.1-Lite without punning would be strange

Michael Schneider: OWL-1.0-Lite onts would exactly mean the same in 1.1, *but* having OWL-1.1-Lite without punning would be strange ←

18:59:22 <uli> hendler: wants to see how this compatibility looks like before agreeing

James Hendler: wants to see how this compatibility looks like before agreeing ←

18:59:49 <uli> alanr: suggests to have a proposal to check in the future

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests to have a proposal to check in the future ←

19:00:07 <uli> Ian: we need to record an action on somebody to carry out this check

Ian Horrocks: we need to record an action on somebody to carry out this check ←

19:00:11 <Carsten> I understood Allen that there would be no OWL-1.1-Lite (only OWL-1.0-Lite mentioned in the 1.1 docs)

Unknown Carsten: I understood Allen that there would be no OWL-1.1-Lite (only OWL-1.0-Lite mentioned in the 1.1 docs) ←

19:00:15 <jeremy> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me ←

19:00:15 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←

19:00:28 <uli> Action: alanr to write an email to propose such a check

ACTION: alanr to write an email to propose such a check ←

19:00:28 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - alanr

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - alanr ←

19:00:42 <uli> Action: alan to write an email to propose such a check

ACTION: alan to write an email to propose such a check ←

19:00:42 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-87 - Write an email to propose such a check [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-02-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-87 - Write an email to propose such a check [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-02-20]. ←

19:01:02 <jeremy> action: jeremy to respond to punning and owl lite point

ACTION: jeremy to respond to punning and owl lite point ←

19:01:03 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-88 - Respond to punning and owl lite point [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-88 - Respond to punning and owl lite point [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20]. ←

19:01:03 <uli> Ian: over to "number of fragments"

Ian Horrocks: over to "number of fragments" ←

19:01:14 <IanH> ?q

Ian Horrocks: ?q ←

19:01:20 <hendler> q+

James Hendler: q+ ←

19:01:24 <uli> q+

q+ ←

19:02:01 <uli> hendler: the more fragments in a normative spec the worse it is:

James Hendler: the more fragments in a normative spec the worse it is: ←

19:02:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:02:28 <bmotik> zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: zakim, mute me ←

19:02:28 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

19:02:31 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler ←

19:02:38 <uli> hendler: more fragments causes confusion, so the bulk should happen in an informative and not in a rec track

James Hendler: more fragments causes confusion, so the bulk should happen in an informative and not in a rec track ←

19:02:47 <jeremy> q+ to suggest mechanisms ....

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest mechanisms .... ←

19:02:50 <uli> Ian: is this a suggestion for all fragments

Ian Horrocks: is this a suggestion for all fragments ←

19:03:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:03:02 <alanr> q+ to ask whether others agree that not putting this in REC should be fine.

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether others agree that not putting this in REC should be fine. ←

19:03:18 <uli> hendler: hm, perhaps Lite is different, and oracle might have a different opinion

James Hendler: hm, perhaps Lite is different, and oracle might have a different opinion ←

19:03:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:03:24 <uli> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me ←

19:03:24 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←

19:03:26 <ivan> ack uli

Ivan Herman: ack uli ←

19:03:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:03:36 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+ ←

19:03:40 <pfps> q+ to say that we could handle OWL Lite with a pointer in the REC to a note

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to say that we could handle OWL Lite with a pointer in the REC to a note ←

19:04:05 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

19:04:05 <uli> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me ←

19:04:05 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:04:06 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to suggest mechanisms ....

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to suggest mechanisms .... ←

19:04:08 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←

19:04:33 <uli> uli: suggests to discuss properties of fragments first, then their number

Uli Sattler: suggests to discuss properties of fragments first, then their number ←

19:04:49 <uli> ???

??? ←

19:05:02 <uli> jeremy, please again?

jeremy, please again? ←

19:05:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:05:18 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

19:05:18 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask whether others agree that not putting this in REC should be fine.

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask whether others agree that not putting this in REC should be fine. ←

19:05:50 <jeremy> jeremy: hp would probably support oracle if oracle wanted owl prime rec tracked; but i would need to check

Jeremy Carroll: hp would probably support oracle if oracle wanted owl prime rec tracked; but i would need to check [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←

19:05:55 <msmith> q+ to respond to alanr

Michael Smith: q+ to respond to alanr ←

19:05:57 <uli> alanr: if we can agree that the fragments document is a note rather than REC track

Alan Ruttenberg: if we can agree that the fragments document is a note rather than REC track ←

19:06:16 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

19:06:16 <ewallace> Jeremy suggested that defining a standard way of specifying fragments could be REC tracked

Evan Wallace: Jeremy suggested that defining a standard way of specifying fragments could be REC tracked ←

19:06:16 <msmith> -1 to non-rec

Michael Smith: -1 to non-rec ←

19:06:18 <pfps> +inf

Peter Patel-Schneider: +inf ←

19:06:20 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1 ←

19:06:22 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1 ←

19:06:28 <Carsten> cannot answer this question

Unknown Carsten: cannot answer this question ←

19:06:28 <uli> Ian: who would agree fragments not being rec track?

Ian Horrocks: who would agree fragments not being rec track? ←

19:06:35 <hendler> +1 non rec track (except Lite)

James Hendler: +1 non rec track (except Lite) ←

19:06:41 <hendler> q+

James Hendler: q+ ←

19:06:49 <alanr> would like to know the positive benefit of making some fragment rec

Alan Ruttenberg: would like to know the positive benefit of making some fragment rec ←

19:06:58 <uli> ivan: even if fragments are only a note, some fragments could be rec track

Ivan Herman: even if fragments are only a note, some fragments could be rec track ←

19:06:59 <m_schnei> I cannot answer before discussing with FZI first

Michael Schneider: I cannot answer before discussing with FZI first ←

19:07:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:07:10 <ivan> ack Zhe

Ivan Herman: ack Zhe ←

19:07:16 <msmith> I think normative conformance statements for fragment is a benefity

Michael Smith: I think normative conformance statements for fragment is a benefity ←

19:07:21 <alanr> zakim, inf is 1+ wherever you are at the moment

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, inf is 1+ wherever you are at the moment ←

19:07:21 <Zakim> I don't understand you, alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand you, alanr ←

19:07:24 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+ ←

19:07:32 <jeremy> +1 to zhe

Jeremy Carroll: +1 to zhe ←

19:07:33 <alanr> zakim, you're not the only one

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, you're not the only one ←

19:07:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you're not the only one', alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'you're not the only one', alanr ←

19:07:35 <uli> Zhe: oracle would like to see 1 fragment on the REC track and not just some kind of a note

Zhe Wu: oracle would like to see 1 fragment on the REC track and not just some kind of a note ←

19:07:40 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:07:57 <pfps> q+ to ask which fragment?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to ask which fragment? ←

19:08:06 <uli> Zhe: this doesn't have to be OWL prime, but something sufficiently expressive and rule implementable

Zhe Wu: this doesn't have to be OWL prime, but something sufficiently expressive and rule implementable ←

19:08:07 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q- ←

19:08:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:08:12 <Carsten> which is the definition of OWL Prime

Unknown Carsten: which is the definition of OWL Prime ←

19:08:23 <uli> Zhe: it could be bigger than OWL prime

Zhe Wu: it could be bigger than OWL prime ←

19:08:33 <uli> Zhe: but it couldn't be OWL Full

Zhe Wu: but it couldn't be OWL Full ←

19:08:58 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler ←

19:09:05 <uli> hendler: doesn't want to fight over *every* fragment

James Hendler: doesn't want to fight over *every* fragment ←

19:09:17 <alanr> why?

Alan Ruttenberg: why? ←

19:09:25 <uli> hendler: if we put a lot of them into REC track, then this will cause confusion

James Hendler: if we put a lot of them into REC track, then this will cause confusion ←

19:09:28 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←

19:09:36 <jeremy> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←

19:09:57 <uli> Ian: looks at his watch

Ian Horrocks: looks at his watch ←

19:10:01 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q? ←

19:10:16 <Zakim> + +0789107aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0789107aacc ←

19:10:22 <Zakim> -jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←

19:10:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:10:28 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:10:28 <Zakim> m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei ←

19:10:33 <jeremy> zakim, aacc is me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, aacc is me ←

19:10:33 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy; got it ←

19:10:39 <alanr> ivan: Why aren't they in the WG?

Ivan Herman: Why aren't they in the WG? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:10:40 <uli> ivan: knows of other DB vendors who would like to support REC track fragment of OWL

Ivan Herman: knows of other DB vendors who would like to support REC track fragment of OWL ←

19:10:40 <jeremy> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me ←

19:10:40 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←

19:10:44 <hendler> +1 to ivan - I have heard same from web app developers as well as vendors

James Hendler: +1 to ivan - I have heard same from web app developers as well as vendors ←

19:10:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:10:49 <pfps> ack me

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack me ←

19:10:49 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask which fragment?

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to ask which fragment? ←

19:10:50 <IanH> ack ivan

Ian Horrocks: ack ivan ←

19:10:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:11:24 <Carsten> I will jump up and down :-)

Unknown Carsten: I will jump up and down :-) ←

19:11:24 <uli> pfps: if others want their fragment on REC track, then I want mine/other want theirs as well...

Peter Patel-Schneider: if others want their fragment on REC track, then I want mine/other want theirs as well... ←

19:11:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:11:45 <ivan> ack jeremy

Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←

19:11:47 <IanH> ack jeremy

Ian Horrocks: ack jeremy ←

19:11:49 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:11:53 <jeremy> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me ←

19:11:53 <Zakim> jeremy was not muted, jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy was not muted, jeremy ←

19:12:05 <alanr> q+ to address jumping up and down comments

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to address jumping up and down comments ←

19:12:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:12:11 <sandro> q+ to propose a market-driven selection mechanism

Sandro Hawke: q+ to propose a market-driven selection mechanism ←

19:12:25 <uli> jeremy: supports OWL Prime being REC track in case there are multiple vendors

Jeremy Carroll: supports OWL Prime being REC track in case there are multiple vendors ←

19:12:32 <Carsten> We don't know *which* fragment the other vendors want?!

Unknown Carsten: We don't know *which* fragment the other vendors want?! ←

19:12:34 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:13:09 <uli> Ian: is this limited to *vendors* or can other people have a say?

Ian Horrocks: is this limited to *vendors* or can other people have a say? ←

19:13:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:13:30 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

19:13:30 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to address jumping up and down comments

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to address jumping up and down comments ←

19:13:35 <uli> jeremy: in the past, the OWL DL people did such jumping and got their REC track

Jeremy Carroll: in the past, the OWL DL people did such jumping and got their REC track ←

19:13:37 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

19:14:05 <Carsten> I can repeat my argumentation for EL++

Unknown Carsten: I can repeat my argumentation for EL++ ←

19:14:07 <msmith> q+ to respond to alanr

Michael Smith: q+ to respond to alanr ←

19:14:13 <Carsten> (see early emails)

Unknown Carsten: (see early emails) ←

19:14:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:14:21 <uli> alanr: would like to hear an argument for *why* a certain fragment should be in REC track

Alan Ruttenberg: would like to hear an argument for *why* a certain fragment should be in REC track ←

19:14:36 <alanr> then let Carsten make it

Alan Ruttenberg: then let Carsten make it ←

19:14:40 <msmith> exactly!

Michael Smith: exactly! ←

19:14:42 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q- ←

19:14:42 <alanr> We need to hear these

Alan Ruttenberg: We need to hear these ←

19:14:52 <Carsten> alan: I made that already, but am happy to repeat it

Alan Ruttenberg: I made that already, but am happy to repeat it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Carsten ] ←

19:14:53 <alanr> Maybe, if they are convincing

Alan Ruttenberg: Maybe, if they are convincing ←

19:15:01 <alanr> Let's see

Alan Ruttenberg: Let's see ←

19:15:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:15:01 <msmith> to the extent that we all have to convince

Michael Smith: to the extent that we all have to convince ←

19:15:07 <ivan> ack sandro

Ivan Herman: ack sandro ←

19:15:07 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to propose a market-driven selection mechanism

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to propose a market-driven selection mechanism ←

19:15:49 <uli> sandro: would like to see something like "for a fragment to be REC track, it needs at least 2 independent, public, complete implementations"

Sandro Hawke: would like to see something like "for a fragment to be REC track, it needs at least 2 independent, public, complete implementations" ←

19:15:49 <bcuencag> How do we measure the completeness of OWL Prime, for instance?

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: How do we measure the completeness of OWL Prime, for instance? ←

19:16:33 <uli> Ian: how do we specify what an implementation for a fragment is?

Ian Horrocks: how do we specify what an implementation for a fragment is? ←

19:16:46 <uli> sandro: it should be serious, but doesn't need to be commercial

Sandro Hawke: it should be serious, but doesn't need to be commercial ←

19:16:50 <alanr> Implementations should have advertised complexity

Alan Ruttenberg: Implementations should have advertised complexity ←

19:16:55 <Carsten> exactly, ian

Unknown Carsten: exactly, ian ←

19:17:02 <bcuencag> what if there is no advertised complexity?

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: what if there is no advertised complexity? ←

19:17:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:17:03 <uli> Ian: it could still be that quite a number would satisfy this

Ian Horrocks: it could still be that quite a number would satisfy this ←

19:17:06 <Zhe> BigOWLIM + ORACLE for pD*

Zhe Wu: BigOWLIM + ORACLE for pD* ←

19:17:17 <Zhe> both are solid and scalable

Zhe Wu: both are solid and scalable ←

19:17:27 <alanr> Jim: Do you agree that 2 implementations  is a good justification

Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Jim: Do you agree that 2 implementations is a good justification [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:17:40 <uli> sandro: plus "2 members of the WG needed per fragment, only 1 vote per member"

Sandro Hawke: plus "2 members of the WG needed per fragment, only 1 vote per member" ←

19:18:01 <uli> alanr: the "implementation exists" seems to be a good criteria

Alan Ruttenberg: the "implementation exists" seems to be a good criteria ←

19:18:27 <ivan> pD* and more or less a level of OWL Prime is more or less implemented by Franz Inc and Ontotext, too

Ivan Herman: pD* and more or less a level of OWL Prime is more or less implemented by Franz Inc and Ontotext, too ←

19:18:38 <Zhe> second that

Zhe Wu: second that ←

19:18:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:18:47 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←

19:19:03 <uli> hendler: disagrees with "implementation exists" is a good criterium because he would also like to see "vendors" and "companies" (??)

James Hendler: disagrees with "implementation exists" is a good criterium because he would also like to see "vendors" and "companies" (??) ←

19:19:16 <uli> jim, please check my note above

jim, please check my note above ←

19:19:24 <alanr> company or open source would be a good compromise

Alan Ruttenberg: company or open source would be a good compromise ←

19:19:31 <alanr> ?

Alan Ruttenberg: ? ←

19:19:40 <alanr> open source means that a company can take it up

Alan Ruttenberg: open source means that a company can take it up ←

19:19:50 <uli> Ian: many different criteria, but Jim doesn't seem to like them

Ian Horrocks: many different criteria, but Jim doesn't seem to like them ←

19:20:05 <msmith> jim, I am a corporate vendor.  We've got DL-Lite and EL++ specific implementations that are being used by our clients

Michael Smith: jim, I am a corporate vendor. We've got DL-Lite and EL++ specific implementations that are being used by our clients ←

19:20:05 <uli> sandro: asks Jim why many fragments are harmful?

Sandro Hawke: asks Jim why many fragments are harmful? ←

19:20:23 <alanr> msmith: You have dl-lite? I want it !!!!

Michael Smith: You have dl-lite? I want it !!!! [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:20:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:20:48 <uli> Ian: especially if it were clear that they are all subsets of OWL11 for which there also exists implementation

Ian Horrocks: especially if it were clear that they are all subsets of OWL11 for which there also exists implementation ←

19:20:50 <Carsten> I am sure I can also get commercial support for EL+, e.g. from SNOMED

Unknown Carsten: I am sure I can also get commercial support for EL+, e.g. from SNOMED ←

19:20:57 <msmith> yes, to alanr

Michael Smith: yes, to alanr ←

19:21:23 <uli> alanr: tries to clarify the "what is a serious implementation"

Alan Ruttenberg: tries to clarify the "what is a serious implementation" ←

19:21:50 <uli> hendler: wants to see oracle doing something being treated differently from what researchers are doing

James Hendler: wants to see oracle doing something being treated differently from what researchers are doing ←

19:21:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:22:11 <uli> hendler: REC track for the companies, notes for the researchers

James Hendler: REC track for the companies, notes for the researchers ←

19:22:33 <Carsten> Sounds like OWL lite

Unknown Carsten: Sounds like OWL lite ←

19:22:42 <IanH> :-)

Ian Horrocks: :-) ←

19:22:59 <alanr> ok. done now.

Alan Ruttenberg: ok. done now. ←

19:23:12 <uli> hendler: we need to be more careful with REC track than with notes, and we can't correct, eg, errors

James Hendler: we need to be more careful with REC track than with notes, and we can't correct, eg, errors ←

19:23:31 <alanr> it's a pretty high bar to say two open source, independent implementations...

Alan Ruttenberg: it's a pretty high bar to say two open source, independent implementations... ←

19:23:44 <uli> Ian: but our fragments are not "new research project outcomes"

Ian Horrocks: but our fragments are not "new research project outcomes" ←

19:23:47 <alanr> I don't see that for el++, for instance, currently

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't see that for el++, for instance, currently ←

19:24:09 <uli> hendler: we should learn from OWL

James Hendler: we should learn from OWL ←

19:24:36 <Carsten> Another example: DL-Lite was developed in cooperation with IBM, as far as I know.

Unknown Carsten: Another example: DL-Lite was developed in cooperation with IBM, as far as I know. ←

19:24:50 <Zhe> product?

Zhe Wu: product? ←

19:24:53 <uli> hendler: if all 7 fragments have the same status as EL+, then perhaps they can all go to REC track

James Hendler: if all 7 fragments have the same status as EL+, then perhaps they can all go to REC track ←

19:25:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:25:31 <uli> alanr: tries again to clarify the "what is a serious implementation"

Ian Horrocks: tries again to clarify the "what is a serious implementation" ←

19:25:46 <uli> s/alanr/Ian

19:25:46 <IanH> Jeremy is on the Q?

Ian Horrocks: Jeremy is on the Q? ←

19:26:02 <uli> alanr: suggests to move discussion to email

Alan Ruttenberg: suggests to move discussion to email ←

19:26:10 <uli> jeremy is gone

jeremy is gone ←

19:26:19 <uli> jeremy isn't gone

jeremy isn't gone ←

19:26:26 <Zakim> -MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←

19:27:19 <uli> jeremy: the QA group adviced recently to have "as few parts as possible", and offers to check it out

Jeremy Carroll: the QA group adviced recently to have "as few parts as possible", and offers to check it out ←

19:27:37 <uli> Ian: move over to email

Ian Horrocks: move over to email ←

19:27:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:27:44 <uli> Ian: is there AOB?

Ian Horrocks: is there AOB? ←

19:27:45 <IanH> ack jeremy

Ian Horrocks: ack jeremy ←

19:28:06 <uli> alanr: next week monday no monday weekend because of holiday in US

Alan Ruttenberg: next week monday no monday weekend because of holiday in US ←

19:28:21 <uli> alanr: asks for suggestions for the week thereafter

Alan Ruttenberg: asks for suggestions for the week thereafter ←

19:28:22 <Zakim> -jeremy

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←

19:28:34 <msmith> alanr, stick to schedule for week after, ufdtf

Michael Smith: alanr, stick to schedule for week after, ufdtf ←

19:28:42 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←

19:28:43 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←

19:28:44 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←

19:28:44 <Rinke> bye

Rinke Hoekstra: bye ←

19:28:45 <Zhe> bye & thanks

Zhe Wu: bye & thanks ←

19:28:46 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←

19:28:47 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←

19:28:52 <Zakim> -jhendler

Zakim IRC Bot: -jhendler ←

19:28:54 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

19:28:54 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←

19:28:56 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei ←

19:28:57 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←

19:28:58 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←

19:28:58 <uli> can somebody please do the minutes thing?

can somebody please do the minutes thing? ←

19:28:59 <alanr> Action: Jeremy to investigate QA group advised recently to have "as few parts as possible",

ACTION: Jeremy to investigate QA group advised recently to have "as few parts as possible", ←

19:29:00 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-89 - Investigate QA group advised recently to have \"as few parts as possible\", [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-89 - Investigate QA group advised recently to have \"as few parts as possible\", [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-20]. ←

19:29:00 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←

19:29:06 <sandro> uli, if you wait a moment I'll get the minutes ready for you.

Sandro Hawke: uli, if you wait a moment I'll get the minutes ready for you. ←

19:29:07 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←

19:29:16 <uli> Sandro, thanks

Sandro, thanks ←

19:29:21 <alanr> Jim: want to chat some time?

Unknown Jim: want to chat some time? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:29:56 <sandro> Zakim, list attendees

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, list attendees ←

19:29:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Rinke, msmith, MartinD, Sandro, IanH, jhendler, +7.955.aaaa, Ivan, jeremy, bijan, Zhe, alanr, bcuencag, +1.781.271.aabb, Carsten, m_schnei,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Rinke, msmith, MartinD, Sandro, IanH, jhendler, +7.955.aaaa, Ivan, jeremy, bijan, Zhe, alanr, bcuencag, +1.781.271.aabb, Carsten, m_schnei, ←

19:30:00 <Zakim> ... Achille, pfps, bmotik, uli, Evan_Wallace, +0789107aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Achille, pfps, bmotik, uli, Evan_Wallace, +0789107aacc ←

19:30:39 <sandro> Present:  Rinke, msmith, MartinD, Sandro, IanH, jhendler, Ivan, jeremy, bijan, Zhe, alanr, bcuencag, Carsten, m_schnei, Achille, pfps, bmotik, uli, Evan_Wallace

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

19:30:49 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←

19:31:43 <uli> sandro, do i have to do something?

sandro, do i have to do something? ←

19:32:16 <sandro> Okay, it's ready.   Now, your job is to read over http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes and clean them up a bit.

Sandro Hawke: Okay, it's ready. Now, your job is to read over http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes and clean them up a bit. ←

19:32:21 <uli> ...I see, thanks, bye!

...I see, thanks, bye! ←

19:32:30 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←

19:37:31 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencag, in SW_OWL()12:00PM

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencag, in SW_OWL()12:00PM ←

19:37:35 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←

19:37:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Rinke, msmith, MartinD, Sandro, IanH, jhendler, +7.955.aaaa, Ivan, jeremy, bijan, Zhe, alanr, bcuencag, +1.781.271.aabb, Carsten, m_schnei, Achille, pfps, bmotik,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Rinke, msmith, MartinD, Sandro, IanH, jhendler, +7.955.aaaa, Ivan, jeremy, bijan, Zhe, alanr, bcuencag, +1.781.271.aabb, Carsten, m_schnei, Achille, pfps, bmotik, ←

19:37:40 <Zakim> ... uli, Evan_Wallace, +0789107aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: ... uli, Evan_Wallace, +0789107aacc ←

Formatted by CommonScribe