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Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 06 May 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.06
Present
John Arwe, Miel Vander Sande, Arnaud Le Hors, Ted Thibodeau, Ashok Malhotra, Steve Speicher, Sandro Hawke, Cody Burleson, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Sergio Fernández, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya, Pierre-Antoine Champin
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Steve Speicher
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes from April 29th link
  2. Close ISSUE-14, saying an LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has as range a list of resources with two properties: (a) ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting; (b) ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or descending) and is optional, (c, etc.) collation, and others link
Topics
<SteveS> Present: JohnArwe, mielvds1, Arnaud, TallTed, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, Sandro, cody, ericP, sergio, nmihindu, pchampin
13:57:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/06-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/06-ldp-irc

13:57:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:57:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:57:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:57:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:21 <trackbot> Date: 06 May 2013
13:58:13 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

13:58:22 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaaa

14:00:03 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

14:00:14 <mielvds1> zakim, +329331aaaa is me

Miel Vander Sande: zakim, +329331aaaa is me

14:00:15 <Zakim> +mielvds1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mielvds1; got it

14:00:35 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

14:00:47 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

14:01:01 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:01:01 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

14:01:02 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:01:02 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:01:07 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

14:01:10 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

14:01:18 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me

Steve Speicher: zakim, [IBM] is me

14:01:18 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

14:02:06 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone?

14:02:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see mielvds1, JohnArwe, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see mielvds1, JohnArwe, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS

14:02:53 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregg_Vanderheiden

14:02:58 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregg_Vanderheiden

14:03:10 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:03:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:03:58 <cody> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me

14:03:58 <Zakim> +cody; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cody; got it

14:04:21 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

14:05:53 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:05:53 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

14:06:23 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:06:23 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:06:28 <SteveS> Scribe: SteveS

(Scribe set to Steve Speicher)

<SteveS> chair: Arnaud
<SteveS> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.06
<SteveS> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

14:06:46 <SteveS> subTopic: Approval of minutes from April 29th

1.1. Approval of minutes from April 29th

<SteveS> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-29

http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-04-29

14:06:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:07:10 <SteveS> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from April 29th

RESOLVED: Approve minutes from April 29th

14:07:15 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

14:07:33 <sergio> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Sergio Fernández: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

14:07:34 <Zakim> +sergio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +sergio; got it

14:08:01 <JohnArwe> zakim, who is here?

John Arwe: zakim, who is here?

14:08:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see mielvds1, JohnArwe, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, Sandro, cody, ericP, sergio, ??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see mielvds1, JohnArwe, Arnaud, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, Sandro, cody, ericP, sergio, ??P5

14:08:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see sergio, cody, pchampin_, JohnArwe, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arnaud, mielvds1, Ashok, svillata, betehess, nmihindu, TallTed, davidwood, bblfish, Yves, sandro, trackbot,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see sergio, cody, pchampin_, JohnArwe, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arnaud, mielvds1, Ashok, svillata, betehess, nmihindu, TallTed, davidwood, bblfish, Yves, sandro, trackbot,

14:08:04 <Zakim> ... cygri, jmvanel, ericP, thschee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... cygri, jmvanel, ericP, thschee

14:08:50 <SteveS> subTopic: next meeting May 13th

1.2. next meeting May 13th

14:09:23 <SteveS> ericP: who will be in Brazil WWW2013?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: who will be in Brazil WWW2013?

14:09:46 <mielvds1> I will, good to meet some people from the group

Miel Vander Sande: I will, good to meet some people from the group

14:09:46 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P5 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P5 is me

14:09:46 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

14:09:51 <SteveS> Arnaud: will be there and may have a conflict, checking timezone clashes

Arnaud Le Hors: will be there and may have a conflict, checking timezone clashes

14:11:13 <SteveS> SteveS: offered to chair if Arnaud can not attend

Steve Speicher: offered to chair if Arnaud can not attend

14:12:30 <SteveS> Arnaud: fear of missing another meeting as we are not seeing much activity between the calls, needing to hit last call by end of June

Arnaud Le Hors: fear of missing another meeting as we are not seeing much activity between the calls, needing to hit last call by end of June

14:12:35 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

14:12:44 <pchampin> zakim, ??P16 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P16 is me

14:12:44 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

14:13:12 <SteveS> …will defer decision on holding meeting on May 13th later this week

…will defer decision on holding meeting on May 13th later this week

14:13:23 <SteveS> Topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues

2. Tracking of Actions and Issues

14:13:33 <SteveS> Arnaud: no actions pending review

Arnaud Le Hors: no actions pending review

14:14:37 <SteveS> …any actions anyone want to claim progress?

…any actions anyone want to claim progress?

14:15:25 <SteveS> SteveS: made progress on ACTION-45 but want to do another read/rewrite on it

Steve Speicher: made progress on ACTION-45 but want to do another read/rewrite on it

14:16:08 <SteveS> Arnaud: Update on test suite? See that Raul has made progress on it

Arnaud Le Hors: Update on test suite? See that Raul has made progress on it

14:16:29 <SteveS> ericP: is under it and making progress

Eric Prud'hommeaux: is under it and making progress

14:16:31 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

14:16:53 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

14:17:11 <SteveS> sergio: Spoke with rgarcia and said he is making progress with ericP

Sergio Fernández: Spoke with rgarcia and said he is making progress with ericP

14:17:13 <nmihindu> q

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: q

14:17:28 <JohnArwe> my email (and the corresponding agenda topic) is evidence of progress on action-51, but not done yet

John Arwe: my email (and the corresponding agenda topic) is evidence of progress on ACTION-51, but not done yet

14:17:33 <TallTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

14:17:44 <Zakim> TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: nmihindu (61%), mielvds1 (9%), JohnArwe (4%), Arnaud (33%)

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: nmihindu (61%), mielvds1 (9%), JohnArwe (4%), Arnaud (33%)

14:18:41 <SteveS> Arnaud: 1 new raised issue, Roger asked that we wait to discuss until he is available to present

Arnaud Le Hors: 1 new raised issue, Roger asked that we wait to discuss until he is available to present

14:18:51 <SteveS> Topic: Open Issues

3. Open Issues

14:19:24 <SteveS> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.06#Open_Issues

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.06#Open_Issues

14:19:33 <SteveS> subTopic: ISSUE-14

3.1. ISSUE-14

14:19:39 <sandro> issue-14

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-14

14:19:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 -- Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-14 -- Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations -- open

14:19:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/14

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/14

14:19:57 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:19:57 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

14:20:29 <SteveS> Arnaud: No new proposals available from the one proposed by Raul

Arnaud Le Hors: No new proposals available from the one proposed by Raul

14:21:37 <SteveS> TallTed: subsequent discussions has shown that others voice the concern, need to make it clear the sorting is arbitrary by the server and the server may provide the sorted by data in the response

Ted Thibodeau: subsequent discussions has shown that others voice the concern, need to make it clear the sorting is arbitrary by the server and the server may provide the sorted by data in the response

14:21:56 <SteveS> ericP: what do you expect the client to do with sorting info?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: what do you expect the client to do with sorting info?

14:22:07 <SteveS> TallTed: would be dealing with paging

Ted Thibodeau: would be dealing with paging

14:22:07 <Ashok> q+

Ashok Malhotra: q+

14:22:31 <Arnaud> ack ashok

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok

14:22:38 <SteveS> ericP: a client may be able to do a binary search if it knew the sorting and paging scheme

Eric Prud'hommeaux: a client may be able to do a binary search if it knew the sorting and paging scheme

14:23:12 <SteveS> Ashok: concern if get 1 container it may come in different orders, no requirement that it has to be consistent

Ashok Malhotra: concern if get 1 container it may come in different orders, no requirement that it has to be consistent

14:23:24 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

14:23:56 <SteveS> Arnaud: notices that ISSUE-18 talks about stable paging and dealing with changing pages over time

Arnaud Le Hors: notices that ISSUE-18 talks about stable paging and dealing with changing pages over time

14:24:02 <Arnaud> ack pchampin

Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin

14:24:09 <JohnArwe> pierre breaking up badly

John Arwe: pierre breaking up badly

14:24:18 <JohnArwe> ...every 2-3rd syllable coming through

John Arwe: ...every 2-3rd syllable coming through

14:24:42 <SteveS> q+

q+

14:25:18 <pchampin> 1. paging should be reproducible in some way

Pierre-Antoine Champin: 1. paging should be reproducible in some way

14:25:20 <SteveS> Arnaud: would like to keep issues separate

Arnaud Le Hors: would like to keep issues separate

14:25:26 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

14:25:44 <pchampin> 2. I'm not sure the proposed "sortPredicate" is enough to represent all useful sorting schemes

Pierre-Antoine Champin: 2. I'm not sure the proposed "sortPredicate" is enough to represent all useful sorting schemes

14:27:02 <SteveS> SteveS: to be clear ISSUE-14 is only about how to have both ascending and descending, be good to open new issues as needed

Steve Speicher: to be clear ISSUE-14 is only about how to have both ascending and descending, be good to open new issues as needed

14:27:40 <SteveS> TallTed: spec take into account localization, etc

Ted Thibodeau: spec take into account localization, etc

14:27:57 <SteveS> SteveS: spec defers to the definition of ascending and descending as within the SPARQL spec

Steve Speicher: spec defers to the definition of ascending and descending as within the SPARQL spec

14:28:12 <sergio> q+

Sergio Fernández: q+

14:28:26 <Arnaud> ack sergio

Arnaud Le Hors: ack sergio

14:28:28 <pchampin> it does not cover ascending vs. descending, it does not cover sorting agains multiple predicates

Pierre-Antoine Champin: it does not cover ascending vs. descending, it does not cover sorting agains multiple predicates

14:28:33 <SteveS> SteveS: based on the use cases that Raul and I have put forward, the proposal is enough

Steve Speicher: based on the use cases that Raul and I have put forward, the proposal is enough

14:28:50 <Ashok> q+

Ashok Malhotra: q+

14:28:54 <pchampin> use case: sorting bugs by state, then by date

Pierre-Antoine Champin: use case: sorting bugs by state, then by date

14:30:33 <Arnaud> ack ashok

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok

14:31:08 <SteveS> sergio: current libraries won't be able to handle this natively as it is not based on List (at least initially)

Sergio Fernández: current libraries won't be able to handle this natively as it is not based on List (at least initially)

14:31:19 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#modOrderBy SPARQL Order

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#modOrderBy SPARQL Order

14:31:21 <pchampin> oops; realizing this is a *list* of predicates... so my use case above is actually handled. sorry :-(

Pierre-Antoine Champin: oops; realizing this is a *list* of predicates... so my use case above is actually handled. sorry :-(

14:32:01 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-compare XPath compare

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-compare XPath compare

14:32:12 <ericP>  op:numeric-less-than(A, B)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: op:numeric-less-than(A, B)

14:32:20 <SteveS> Ashok: what are the limits of what can be sorted?

Ashok Malhotra: what are the limits of what can be sorted?

14:32:35 <SteveS> SteveS: it is defined by SPARQL orderBy

Steve Speicher: it is defined by SPARQL orderBy

14:33:16 <sergio> +1 to sparql-based ordering definition

Sergio Fernández: +1 to sparql-based ordering definition

14:33:49 <SteveS> Ashok: why are we ignoring collations?

Ashok Malhotra: why are we ignoring collations?

14:35:32 <SteveS> ericP: <added some description>

Eric Prud'hommeaux: SPARQL ORDER BY uses the 2 parameter fn:compare(A,B) function which takes no collation parameter. this means that e.g. "ö" and "oe" don't order next to each other in german.

14:36:04 <SteveS> What scenario are we saying we haven't considered to date?

What scenario are we saying we haven't considered to date?

14:37:51 <SteveS> Arnaud: sounds like a separate issue that perhaps Ashok can raise and propose something regards to what he sees as missing from the spec

Arnaud Le Hors: sounds like a separate issue that perhaps Ashok can raise and propose something regards to what he sees as missing from the spec

14:38:19 <JohnArwe> From email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0002.html

John Arwe: From email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0002.html

14:38:27 <JohnArwe> The concrete proposal is the following:

John Arwe: The concrete proposal is the following:

14:38:27 <JohnArwe> An LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a

John Arwe: An LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a

14:38:28 <JohnArwe> container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has

John Arwe: container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has

14:38:28 <JohnArwe> as range a list of resources with two properties:

John Arwe: as range a list of resources with two properties:

14:38:28 <JohnArwe> .- ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting

John Arwe: .- ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting

14:38:28 <JohnArwe> .- ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or

John Arwe: .- ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or

14:38:28 <JohnArwe> descending) and is optional

John Arwe: descending) and is optional

14:38:36 <JohnArwe> [over]

John Arwe: [over]

14:39:03 <SteveS> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-14: Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations, per Raúl's suggestion http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0002.html

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-14: Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations, per Raúl's suggestion http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0002.html

14:39:29 <pchampin> would adding a 3rd property ldp:containerSortCollation make everyone happy?

Pierre-Antoine Champin: would adding a 3rd property ldp:containerSortCollation make everyone happy?

14:39:40 <pchampin> (with a sensible default value for the 3rd one?)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: (with a sensible default value for the 3rd one?)

14:39:43 <ericP> s/<added some description>/SPARQL ORDER BY uses the 2 parameter fn:compare(A,B) function which takes no collation parameter. this means that e.g. "ö" and "oe" don't order next to each other in german.
14:40:18 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: close issue-14, adding ldp:ccontainterSortOrder to allow specifying the sorting order: ldp:descending or ldp:ascending

PROPOSED: close ISSUE-14, adding ldp:ccontainterSortOrder to allow specifying the sorting order: ldp:descending or ldp:ascending

14:41:32 <sergio> +1

Sergio Fernández: +1

14:41:48 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:44:23 <JohnArwe> ...realizing Arnaud's did not capture ALL the changes in Raul's

John Arwe: ...realizing Arnaud's did not capture ALL the changes in Raul's

14:44:27 <JohnArwe> ...re-drafting

John Arwe: ...re-drafting

14:44:34 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#OperatorMapping ¶3 SPARQL discussion of collations

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#OperatorMapping ¶3 SPARQL discussion of collations

14:44:46 <TallTed> PROPOSAL: An LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has as range a list of resources with two properties: (a) ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting; (b) ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or descending) and is optional, (c, etc.) collation, and others

PROPOSED: An LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has as range a list of resources with two properties: (a) ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting; (b) ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or descending) and is optional, (c, etc.) collation, and others

14:45:25 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

14:45:27 <SteveS> +1

+1

14:45:30 <JohnArwe> +1

John Arwe: +1

14:45:33 <sergio> +1

Sergio Fernández: +1

14:45:38 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:45:47 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

14:45:59 <nmihindu> +1

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1

14:46:08 <cody> +1

Cody Burleson: +1

14:46:21 <SteveS> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-14, saying an LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has as range a list of resources with two properties: (a) ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting; (b) ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or descending) and is optional, (c, etc.) collation, and others

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-14, saying an LDPC server can indicate to a client the ordering of members in a container page using an ldp:containerOrder property. This property has as range a list of resources with two properties: (a) ldp:containerSortPredicate, which defines the property used for sorting; (b) ldp:containerSortOrder, which defines the ordering (ascending or descending) and is optional, (c, etc.) collation, and others

14:46:59 <SteveS> subTopic: ISSUE-32

3.2. ISSUE-32

14:47:03 <SteveS> ISSUE-32 ?

ISSUE-32 ?

14:47:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- open

14:47:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32

14:47:34 <SteveS> Arnaud: JohnArwe has sent out an email regarding points http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0139.html

Arnaud Le Hors: JohnArwe has sent out an email regarding points http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0139.html

14:48:16 <TallTed>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/att-0139/W3CIssue32.pdf

Ted Thibodeau: ISSUE-32.pdf">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/att-0139/W3CISSUE-32.pdf

14:48:54 <SteveS> JohnArwe: illustrated in PDF, page 1 is a straw man of tasks of what clients are trying to do

John Arwe: illustrated in PDF, page 1 is a straw man of tasks of what clients are trying to do

14:49:35 <SteveS> …the wiki was a fairly large list, it shows how a large number of tests may need to be done

…the wiki was a fairly large list, it shows how a large number of tests may need to be done

14:50:10 <SteveS> …consider going down "profile" route, can do high-level introspection, and define common grouping that would be common

…consider going down "profile" route, can do high-level introspection, and define common grouping that would be common

14:51:03 <SteveS> …3 profiles: "read-only", "strictly managed membership" and "everything"

…3 profiles: "read-only", "strictly managed membership" and "everything"

14:51:19 <SteveS> …looking for WG feedback on the the right grouping and right things being required

…looking for WG feedback on the the right grouping and right things being required

14:51:19 <pchampin> in option 2 (managed/closed container), how can you create new ressources if containers are closed?

Pierre-Antoine Champin: in option 2 (managed/closed container), how can you create new ressources if containers are closed?

14:52:30 <SteveS> pchampin, what do you call option 2?  This a grouping of tasks/capabilities (aka profiles) not options

pchampin, what do you call option 2? This a grouping of tasks/capabilities (aka profiles) not options

14:52:32 <JohnArwe> pierre: out of band means

Pierre-Antoine Champin: out of band means [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:53:36 <JohnArwe> ...actually pierre, it you want to create a new Member that is standard POST to the collection

John Arwe: ...actually pierre, it you want to create a new Member that is standard POST to the collection

14:53:37 <SteveS> Arnaud: soliciting more WG feedback, doesn't current include how the affordances are communicated but looking for direction

Arnaud Le Hors: soliciting more WG feedback, doesn't current include how the affordances are communicated but looking for direction

14:54:29 <mielvds1> if capabilities need to be discovered anyway, why profiles?

Miel Vander Sande: if capabilities need to be discovered anyway, why profiles?

14:54:57 <SteveS> JohnArwe: wonder if people wonder if we should do profiles at all? be good to get a feeling from the group with a straw poll

John Arwe: wonder if people wonder if we should do profiles at all? be good to get a feeling from the group with a straw poll

14:55:01 <pchampin> +1 to profiles

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to profiles

14:55:24 <SteveS> SteveS: I see no issues with profile construct

Steve Speicher: I see no issues with profile construct

14:56:08 <SteveS> ericP: anyone done anything to see how many of these things are orthogonal, a checkbox list of items…it would be a good way for people to parameterize their libraries and services

Eric Prud'hommeaux: anyone done anything to see how many of these things are orthogonal, a checkbox list of items…it would be a good way for people to parameterize their libraries and services

14:56:41 <nmihindu> +1 for profiles, makes sense for being compliant only offering only set of features

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1 for profiles, makes sense for being compliant only offering only set of features

14:57:14 <SteveS> JohnArwe: as example, HTTP gives a way to introspect a URI on what verbs are needed

John Arwe: as example, HTTP gives a way to introspect a URI on what verbs are needed

14:57:22 <TallTed> +1 profiles seem like a good approach.  *server* profile is a starting point, *resource* profiles might differ -- but couldn't be broader than their hosting server...

Ted Thibodeau: +1 profiles seem like a good approach. *server* profile is a starting point, *resource* profiles might differ -- but couldn't be broader than their hosting server...

14:57:39 <sergio> +1 to explore such idea

Sergio Fernández: +1 to explore such idea

14:57:41 <SteveS> ericP: thinking it would be good to know what parameters you might need for reading, adding members, etc

Eric Prud'hommeaux: thinking it would be good to know what parameters you might need for reading, adding members, etc

14:57:42 <JohnArwe> mielvds1, boils down to how complex is it for clients to code the introspection logic?  if they need to look at 3 tasks (read only), do they need to code 1 piece of logic or 3?

John Arwe: mielvds1, boils down to how complex is it for clients to code the introspection logic? if they need to look at 3 tasks (read only), do they need to code 1 piece of logic or 3?

14:58:04 <SteveS> subTopic: ISSUE-58 and options on the table

3.3. ISSUE-58 and options on the table

14:58:09 <SteveS> ISSUE-58?

ISSUE-58?

14:58:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-58 -- Property for asserting that complete description of members is included in LDPC representation -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-58 -- Property for asserting that complete description of members is included in LDPC representation -- open

14:58:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/58

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/58

14:58:39 <SteveS> Arnaud: Options on the table http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

Arnaud Le Hors: Options on the table http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

14:58:57 <SteveS> …would like to get a straw poll on the 4 options

…would like to get a straw poll on the 4 options

14:59:14 <Arnaud> STRAWPOLL: which option should we go with?

STRAWPOLL: which option should we go with?

15:00:40 <SteveS> Arnaud: vote -1..+1 in order of A, B, C, D

Arnaud Le Hors: vote -1..+1 in order of A, B, C, D

15:00:43 <cody> A -1, B +1, C +1, D -1

Cody Burleson: A -1, B +1, C +1, D -1

15:01:20 <sergio> A -1, B +1, C -1, D +0 (I'm not very fan of boolean properties in rdf)

Sergio Fernández: A -1, B +1, C -1, D +0 (I'm not very fan of boolean properties in rdf)

15:01:20 <TallTed> A +1, B +1, C -0.5, D +1

Ted Thibodeau: A +1, B +1, C -0.5, D +1

15:01:22 <ericP> A +1, B 0, C 0, D -1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: A +1, B 0, C 0, D -1

15:01:41 <pchampin> the HTTP header is probably ill-named (and yes, I did propose the name)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: the HTTP header is probably ill-named (and yes, I did propose the name)

15:01:55 <JohnArwe> +0.5, +0.5, +1.0, -0.5     Where the option D issue is I don't see how to make the caching work, but if I got convinced it would work then fine with it

John Arwe: +0.5, +0.5, +1.0, -0.5 Where the option D issue is I don't see how to make the caching work, but if I got convinced it would work then fine with it

15:02:08 <nmihindu> -1, 0, +0, +1

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: -1, 0, +0, +1

15:02:13 <mielvds1> A −1, B +1, C −1, D +1

Miel Vander Sande: A −1, B +1, C −1, D +1

15:02:34 <pchampin> @JohnArwe: option D is motivated by the fact that this is a property of the representation, not of the resource/container per se

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @JohnArwe: option D is motivated by the fact that this is a property of the representation, not of the resource/container per se

15:03:10 <SteveS> SteveS: +.5, +.4, +1 (but would like the value to be etag), +0

Steve Speicher: +.5, +.4, +1 (but would like the value to be etag), +0

15:03:18 <JohnArwe> pierre: agree and like that part; email response articulates the problems I see

Pierre-Antoine Champin: agree and like that part; email response articulates the problems I see [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

15:03:25 <pchampin> container X may inline member Y completely in *some* representations only

Pierre-Antoine Champin: container X may inline member Y completely in *some* representations only

15:03:40 <pchampin> sorry, didn't read the thread yet

Pierre-Antoine Champin: sorry, didn't read the thread yet

15:03:44 <pchampin> will right away :)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: will right away :)

15:03:52 <JohnArwe> np

John Arwe: np

15:04:09 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

15:04:34 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:04:40 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

15:04:42 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

15:04:42 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

15:04:50 <Zakim> -cody

Zakim IRC Bot: -cody

15:05:17 <Zakim> -mielvds1

Zakim IRC Bot: -mielvds1

15:05:24 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

15:09:37 <Zakim> -sergio

Zakim IRC Bot: -sergio

15:12:45 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

15:12:53 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

15:12:54 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:12:54 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:12:54 <Zakim> Attendees were JohnArwe, mielvds1, Arnaud, TallTed, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, Sandro, cody, ericP, sergio, nmihindu, pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were JohnArwe, mielvds1, Arnaud, TallTed, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, Sandro, cody, ericP, sergio, nmihindu, pchampin



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