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15:48:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/10-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/10-dpub-irc ←
15:48:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:48:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
15:48:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes ←
15:48:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:48:27 <trackbot> Date: 10 February 2014
15:50:17 <lizadaly> I pointed to the wrong URL in the agenda, my apologies
Liza Daly: I pointed to the wrong URL in the agenda, my apologies ←
15:51:26 <lizadaly> We're discussing Pagination/DOM interaction under http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory
Liza Daly: We're discussing Pagination/DOM interaction under http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory ←
15:55:42 <ivan> zakim, code?
Ivan Herman: zakim, code? ←
15:55:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan ←
15:56:18 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:56:25 <Zakim> +MIT531
Zakim IRC Bot: +MIT531 ←
15:56:47 <ivan> zakim, MIT531 holds ivan, liza
Ivan Herman: zakim, MIT531 holds ivan, liza ←
15:56:47 <Zakim> +ivan, liza; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan, liza; got it ←
15:56:54 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:56:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531 ←
15:56:55 <Zakim> MIT531 has ivan, liza
Zakim IRC Bot: MIT531 has ivan, liza ←
15:56:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see philm, fjh, lizadaly, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, marilyn, cwdoh, ivan, liam, astearns, plinss, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see philm, fjh, lizadaly, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, marilyn, cwdoh, ivan, liam, astearns, plinss, trackbot ←
15:57:29 <Zakim> +dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe ←
15:57:38 <dauwhe> Zakim, unmute me
Dave Cramer: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:57:38 <Zakim> dauwhe was not muted, dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: dauwhe was not muted, dauwhe ←
15:58:03 <Zakim> +Marilyn
Zakim IRC Bot: +Marilyn ←
15:58:23 <Zakim> +Philm
Zakim IRC Bot: +Philm ←
15:59:03 <Zakim> -Philm
Zakim IRC Bot: -Philm ←
15:59:28 <Zakim> +azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth ←
15:59:45 <Zakim> +Philm
Zakim IRC Bot: +Philm ←
15:59:45 <azaroth> zakim, am I muted?
Robert Sanderson: zakim, am I muted? ←
15:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, azaroth.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, azaroth. ←
15:59:52 <azaroth> zakim, who is muted
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is muted ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> azaroth, you need to end that query with '?'
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you need to end that query with '?' ←
15:59:55 <azaroth> zakim, who is muted?
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is muted? ←
15:59:55 <Zakim> I see no one muted
Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one muted ←
15:59:57 <Zakim> +Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya ←
16:00:05 <azaroth> zakim, thanks for not muting us all!
Robert Sanderson: zakim, thanks for not muting us all! ←
16:00:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'thanks for not muting us all!', azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'thanks for not muting us all!', azaroth ←
16:00:07 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:00:07 <Zakim> +duga
Zakim IRC Bot: +duga ←
16:00:17 <Zakim> + +33.1.41.23.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.1.41.23.aaaa ←
16:00:19 <ivan> zakim, you are not polite...
Ivan Herman: zakim, you are not polite... ←
16:00:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you are not polite', ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'you are not polite', ivan ←
16:00:44 <ivan> regrets: Markus, Vlad, JeanKaplansky
16:00:53 <lizadaly> SCRIIIIIIIIBE
16:01:03 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
16:01:09 <Zakim> + +1.917.447.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.917.447.aabb ←
16:01:28 <ivan> zakim, aabb is benjaminsko
Ivan Herman: zakim, aabb is benjaminsko ←
16:01:28 <Zakim> +benjaminsko; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko; got it ←
16:01:45 <lizadaly> zakim, pick a victim
Liza Daly: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:01:45 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose azaroth ←
16:01:51 <azaroth> thanks Zakim
Robert Sanderson: thanks Zakim ←
16:02:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:02:07 <azaroth> scribe: azaroth
(Scribe set to Robert Sanderson)
16:02:08 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
16:02:08 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
16:02:10 <ivan> scribenick: azaroth
16:02:34 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
16:02:41 <tmichel> zakim, ??P3 is me
Thierry Michel: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
16:02:41 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it ←
16:03:00 <azaroth> Liza: Can we approve the previous minutes?
Liza Daly: Can we approve the previous minutes? ←
16:03:11 <azaroth> ... Assuming no objections? Okay... approved.
... Assuming no objections? Okay... approved. ←
16:03:13 <Zakim> +Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert ←
16:03:25 <Zakim> +LFowler
Zakim IRC Bot: +LFowler ←
16:03:29 <azaroth> ... There were corrections that Karen missed in the previous set. Don't know if they've been updated or not
... There were corrections that Karen missed in the previous set. Don't know if they've been updated or not ←
16:03:38 <azaroth> ???: They've not been updated, so we should leave
Thierry Michel: They've not been updated, so we should leave ←
16:03:48 <azaroth> Liza: That's fine. Markus isn't back till next week
Liza Daly: That's fine. Markus isn't back till next week ←
16:03:55 <ivan> s/???/tmichel/
16:03:59 <tmichel> s/???/tmichel
16:04:13 <lizadaly> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory
Liza Daly: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory ←
16:04:23 <azaroth> ... Okay, there are use cases for pagination posted at the bottom of the use case directory. About 6 of them from Brady
... Okay, there are use cases for pagination posted at the bottom of the use case directory. About 6 of them from Brady ←
16:04:33 <astearns> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction
Alan Stearns: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction ←
16:04:39 <azaroth> ... he isn't going to lead the task force so one goal is to find an owner to shepherd them
... he isn't going to lead the task force so one goal is to find an owner to shepherd them ←
16:04:54 <azaroth> ... Brady would you mind talking us through the goals for the TF?
... Brady would you mind talking us through the goals for the TF? ←
16:05:13 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.832.aacc ←
16:05:21 <azaroth> brady: This game up in China. We talked a lot about how you style a page, Dave is doing latineq and lots of work being done in CSS
Brady Duga: This came up in China. We talked a lot about how you style a page, Dave is doing latineq and lots of work being done in CSS ←
16:05:36 <azaroth> ... but for reading system we need to know more than just how to break it into pages, but also how to reference a page
... but for reading system we need to know more than just how to break it into pages, but also how to reference a page ←
16:05:40 <dshkolnik> Zakim, aacc is dshkolnik
Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, aacc is dshkolnik ←
16:05:40 <Zakim> +dshkolnik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dshkolnik; got it ←
16:05:42 <astearns> s/game/came/
16:05:58 <dshkolnik> Zakim, mute me
Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, mute me ←
16:05:58 <Zakim> dshkolnik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: dshkolnik should now be muted ←
16:06:09 <azaroth> ... so have to trick things into thinking that they're pages. RS needs to know how many pages are in the document, how to change the page size, display multiple pages at the same time
... so have to trick things into thinking that they're pages. RS needs to know how many pages are in the document, how to change the page size, display multiple pages at the same time ←
16:06:18 <azaroth> ... some sort of object model for what a page is and how to refer to it
... some sort of object model for what a page is and how to refer to it ←
16:06:30 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:06:33 <azaroth> ... that's the use cases. In China I was asked to write up a few, which are now on the wiki
... that's the use cases. In China I was asked to write up a few, which are now on the wiki ←
16:06:41 <azaroth> ... goes beyond style, into a model.
... goes beyond style, into a model. ←
16:06:46 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
16:07:00 <azaroth> Liza: Assumption is it's about how a RS would behave, not necessarily how it would be supplied?
Liza Daly: Assumption is it's about how a RS would behave, not necessarily how it would be supplied? ←
16:07:16 <azaroth> Brady: Wrote as a RS implementer, but could be use cases from the publisher side
Brady Duga: Wrote as a RS implementer, but could be use cases from the publisher side ←
16:07:17 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:07:25 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P28 is Me
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P28 is Me ←
16:07:26 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it ←
16:07:48 <azaroth> ... Publisher has lots of style issues, but also may need to know about where pages are and how they work. Esp if there's javascript
... Publisher has lots of style issues, but also may need to know about where pages are and how they work. Esp if there's javascript ←
16:07:59 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe
16:08:02 <azaroth> ... a JS widget that needs to know how many pages there are, the publisher would be interested
... a JS widget that needs to know how many pages there are, the publisher would be interested ←
16:08:33 <azaroth> dauwhe: A couple of things from CSS point of view, some discussion about this sort of thing in CSS, important to be able to know what a page is and how to address it
Dave Cramer: A couple of things from CSS point of view, some discussion about this sort of thing in CSS, important to be able to know what a page is and how to address it ←
16:09:00 <azaroth> ... work on fragmentation might help here. Publishers interested in styling things based on which page they're on and the position within the page
... work on fragmentation might help here. Publishers interested in styling things based on which page they're on and the position within the page ←
16:09:25 <azaroth> ... so far css isn't really addressing that issue. working on selecting the master page in the InDesign sense, but that doesn't select the content of the page
... so far css isn't really addressing that issue. working on selecting the master page in the InDesign sense, but that doesn't select the content of the page ←
16:09:30 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:09:32 <lizadaly> ack ivan
16:09:33 <azaroth> ... lots of pieces to this
... lots of pieces to this ←
16:09:38 <dauwhe> q-
Dave Cramer: q- ←
16:10:18 <azaroth> Ivan: Ran into a problem that relates -- a book that also had illustrations and caption of illustration was quote from the text. Quote said this is on page 622. And then it wasn't, depending on reflowing.
Ivan Herman: Ran into a problem that relates -- a book that also had illustrations and caption of illustration was quote from the text. Quote said this is on page 622. And then it wasn't, depending on reflowing. ←
16:10:36 <azaroth> ... so publishers have to have some special way to encode it, so the RS can get it right. Can't completely forget about it
... so publishers have to have some special way to encode it, so the RS can get it right. Can't completely forget about it ←
16:11:12 <azaroth> dauwhe: generated content for paged media module has that kind of page referencing property. Can retrieve the page number from the link and display it to have the right number
Dave Cramer: generated content for paged media module has that kind of page referencing property. Can retrieve the page number from the link and display it to have the right number ←
16:11:19 <azaroth> Ivan: Publishers have to know how to do that.
Ivan Herman: Publishers have to know how to do that. ←
16:11:31 <azaroth> dauwhe: And it has to be implemented. Not sure of implementation outside of Random House
Dave Cramer: And it has to be implemented. Not sure of implementation outside of Antenna House ←
16:11:42 <azaroth> ???: It needs to be embedded in teh content? or working interactively?
???: It needs to be embedded in teh content? or working interactively? ←
16:11:50 <lizadaly> s/Random House/Antenna House/
16:12:00 <lizadaly> ??? was Bill_Kasdorf
Liza Daly: Bill_Kasdorf was Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:12:07 <azaroth> dauwhe: You can say link to a heading somewhere ... there's an illustration far away. THen you write CSS to say get the ID value and find the page value, display that here
Dave Cramer: You can say link to a heading somewhere ... there's an illustration far away. THen you write CSS to say get the ID value and find the page value, display that here ←
16:12:08 <lizadaly> ack tzviya
16:12:17 <azaroth> s/???/Bill_Kasdorf/
16:12:18 <ivan> s/???/Bill_kasdorf
16:12:49 <azaroth> tzviya: If we're working on implementing JS, we can call it a viewport or page, we don't know where things are going to land on the page. Eg a touch event, we want to contain it to a particular screen
Tzviya Siegman: If we're working on implementing JS, we can call it a viewport or page, we don't know where things are going to land on the page. Eg a touch event, we want to contain it to a particular screen ←
16:13:11 <azaroth> lizadaly: I wasn't really considering publishers writing interactive components inside a book, not common now but should be
Liza Daly: I wasn't really considering publishers writing interactive components inside a book, not common now but should be ←
16:13:18 <dauwhe> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-gcpm/#target-counter
Dave Cramer: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-gcpm/#target-counter ←
16:13:21 <azaroth> ... they'll want a common way to reference pages
... they'll want a common way to reference pages ←
16:13:45 <azaroth> tzviya: page references in a cook book, you might say see recipe on page 72, but in academic work citations are more complicated
Tzviya Siegman: page references in a cook book, you might say see recipe on page 72, but in academic work citations are more complicated ←
16:13:51 <azaroth> ... working with references across works
... working with references across works ←
16:13:58 <azaroth> ... probably not in scope, but want to consider it
... probably not in scope, but want to consider it ←
16:14:22 <azaroth> lizadaly: linking is important, but should probably confine it to pagination rather than the whole world of references
Liza Daly: linking is important, but should probably confine it to pagination rather than the whole world of references ←
16:14:54 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:14:56 <azaroth> ... sounds like someone other than a RS vendor should come up with publisher centric use cases before we can say it's complete
... sounds like someone other than a RS vendor should come up with publisher centric use cases before we can say it's complete ←
16:14:57 <dshkolnik> In digital magazine world we see a lot of custom JavaScript from publishers. The contract between Adobe Content Viewer and the publishers content is that we call onAppear()/onDisappear() when page is displayed.
Dmitry Shkolnik: In digital magazine world we see a lot of custom JavaScript from publishers. The contract between Adobe Content Viewer and the publishers content is that we call onAppear()/onDisappear() when page is displayed. ←
16:14:58 <lizadaly> ack ivan
16:15:31 <azaroth> ivan: what's the next steps? in China we wondered whether it means we need changes or extensions to the current DOM model, or not?
Ivan Herman: what's the next steps? in China we wondered whether it means we need changes or extensions to the current DOM model, or not? ←
16:15:42 <azaroth> ... that would be a very specific, heavy technical requirement
... that would be a very specific, heavy technical requirement ←
16:15:50 <azaroth> ... need to be careful before issuing such a requirement
... need to be careful before issuing such a requirement ←
16:15:59 <azaroth> ... is that where we're going, or can we get around it?
... is that where we're going, or can we get around it? ←
16:16:29 <azaroth> lizadaly: no way to reference a particular page in DOM other than with lots of JS hacks
Liza Daly: no way to reference a particular page in DOM other than with lots of JS hacks ←
16:16:40 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:16:41 <azaroth> ... can't even say what page you're currently on.
... can't even say what page you're currently on. ←
16:16:52 <azaroth> ... need a solution
... need a solution ←
16:17:13 <Zakim> +madi
Zakim IRC Bot: +madi ←
16:17:21 <azaroth> brady_duga: Agree there isnt' a solution today. Two options -- modify the way DOM works or layer a solution on top of it
Brady Duga: Agree there isnt' a solution today. Two options -- modify the way DOM works or layer a solution on top of it ←
16:17:35 <azaroth> ... that might be possible without changing the dom, but some other way to map between elements in the DOM and pages
... that might be possible without changing the dom, but some other way to map between elements in the DOM and pages ←
16:17:50 <azaroth> ... only want to show this portion of the DOM because that's the page we're on. DOn't know which is the way to go
... only want to show this portion of the DOM because that's the page we're on. DOn't know which is the way to go ←
16:17:55 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe
16:18:35 <azaroth> dauwhe: Actually changing the DOM seems like an incredibly high hurdle. not an expert but lots of work on extensions to the DOM to talk about things not really in the dom like pseudo elements
Dave Cramer: Actually changing the DOM seems like an incredibly high hurdle. not an expert but lots of work on extensions to the DOM to talk about things not really in the dom like pseudo elements ←
16:18:59 <azaroth> ... wonder if there's possibility in that space to be able to manipulate the objects we want to talk about
... wonder if there's possibility in that space to be able to manipulate the objects we want to talk about ←
16:19:02 <astearns> q+
Alan Stearns: q+ ←
16:19:09 <lizadaly> ack astearns
16:19:28 <azaroth> astearns: one possibility for building on top of the dom is to use css regions.
Alan Stearns: one possibility for building on top of the dom is to use css regions. ←
16:19:51 <azaroth> ... when you fragment content with regions you have some scripting access to the region chain, you can find out which position the region is in the chain
... when you fragment content with regions you have some scripting access to the region chain, you can find out which position the region is in the chain ←
16:20:09 <azaroth> ... so you can find out what page content is on, so long as you map regions to pages
... so you can find out what page content is on, so long as you map regions to pages ←
16:20:22 <azaroth> ... so can build on top of that as it lets you do some of the things raised
... so can build on top of that as it lets you do some of the things raised ←
16:20:41 <azaroth> lizadaly: Remember an early draft of the spec, excited that it gives that level of access.
Liza Daly: Remember an early draft of the spec, excited that it gives that level of access. ←
16:20:53 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:20:55 <azaroth> astearns: the spec is moving along. Mozilla is not terribly interested
Alan Stearns: the spec is moving along. Mozilla is not terribly interested ←
16:21:05 <azaroth> ... Chrome decided to take it out for now as mozilla aren't doing it
... Chrome decided to take it out for now as mozilla aren't doing it ←
16:21:16 <lizadaly> ack ivan
16:21:19 <azaroth> ... implementation in safari, and older version in IE. Need to wait for other browsers
... implementation in safari, and older version in IE. Need to wait for other browsers ←
16:22:02 <azaroth> ivan: good example. Don't know why mozilla isn't interested, but tells me that if it's a solution or main component for the publishing industry, then the IG should make it clear to the parties
Ivan Herman: good example. Don't know why mozilla isn't interested, but tells me that if it's a solution or main component for the publishing industry, then the IG should make it clear to the parties ←
16:22:10 <azaroth> ... that as far as we're concerned, this should have a high priority
... that as far as we're concerned, this should have a high priority ←
16:22:25 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:22:37 <azaroth> ... as it solves a big problem. Alan you're on the CSS WG, what can this IG do to try to increase the priority of implementation?
... as it solves a big problem. Alan you're on the CSS WG, what can this IG do to try to increase the priority of implementation? ←
16:22:46 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe
16:22:51 <azaroth> lizadaly: Helpful to say that it's very important
Liza Daly: Helpful to say that it's very important ←
16:22:53 <karen> zakim, code?
Karen Myers: zakim, code? ←
16:22:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen ←
16:23:05 <azaroth> astearns: I think it would be good to talk about use cases rather than specific technology
Alan Stearns: I think it would be good to talk about use cases rather than specific technology ←
16:23:26 <azaroth> ... knowing the page number, what content is on the page, etc. need to get that information from the reading system to act on
... knowing the page number, what content is on the page, etc. need to get that information from the reading system to act on ←
16:23:43 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers ←
16:23:44 <azaroth> ... noting regions has the capability built in. A better way to put pressure.
... noting regions has the capability built in. A better way to put pressure. ←
16:24:17 <azaroth> dauwhe: wondering if regions can address these kinds of issues? Can it do it behind the scenes without publishers writing in all the region machinery in CSS?
Dave Cramer: wondering if regions can address these kinds of issues? Can it do it behind the scenes without publishers writing in all the region machinery in CSS? ←
16:24:47 <azaroth> ... can it interpret pagination or something a RS could use to implement pagination and then expose hooks without publishers having to assign everything individualy
... can it interpret pagination or something a RS could use to implement pagination and then expose hooks without publishers having to assign everything individualy ←
16:25:00 <azaroth> astearns: Good question. Goes to promoting use cases not technology
Alan Stearns: Good question. Goes to promoting use cases not technology ←
16:25:02 <ivan> regrets+ Julie
Ivan Herman: regrets+ Julie ←
16:25:16 <azaroth> ... believe it will be that there'll be JS libraries built on top of regions that gives the functionality
... believe it will be that there'll be JS libraries built on top of regions that gives the functionality ←
16:25:31 <azaroth> ... or we look at how regions and js interact, and find a lower level way in CSS to do the same thing
... or we look at how regions and js interact, and find a lower level way in CSS to do the same thing ←
16:25:48 <azaroth> ... so regions+ js to me is the right way to address a lot of the use cases, but I could be wrong
... so regions+ js to me is the right way to address a lot of the use cases, but I could be wrong ←
16:26:17 <azaroth> lizadaly: when i first saw some region support in chrome, pagination and seeking to a page, can't say it would solve all the use cases here, but was very promising
Liza Daly: when i first saw some region support in chrome, pagination and seeking to a page, can't say it would solve all the use cases here, but was very promising ←
16:26:21 <azaroth> ... better than previous solutions
... better than previous solutions ←
16:26:31 <azaroth> astearns: Some limitations, when you get to very long documents
Alan Stearns: Some limitations, when you get to very long documents ←
16:26:48 <azaroth> ... regions + script may not be performant enough. might inform where we need to work.
... regions + script may not be performant enough. might inform where we need to work. ←
16:27:07 <azaroth> ... Brady and Rosen from MS were talking about the next steps and how to get a long pagination scenario working okay
... Brady and Rosen from MS were talking about the next steps and how to get a long pagination scenario working okay ←
16:27:24 <azaroth> lizadaly: agree that's been a problem with all the solutions I've seen so far -- they fall apart in long streams
Liza Daly: agree that's been a problem with all the solutions I've seen so far -- they fall apart in long streams ←
16:27:30 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:27:34 <lizadaly> ack ivan
16:27:59 <azaroth> ivan: not like trying to push anyone but this tells me it would be relatively urgent to get these use cases documented and published
Ivan Herman: not like trying to push anyone but this tells me it would be relatively urgent to get these use cases documented and published ←
16:28:06 <azaroth> ... could be the time when the pressure could work
... could be the time when the pressure could work ←
16:28:21 <azaroth> ... if we are too late with the UCs then could be too late and will be pushed back to CSS4
... if we are too late with the UCs then could be too late and will be pushed back to CSS4 ←
16:28:29 <azaroth> +1
+1 ←
16:29:03 <azaroth> brady: Curious what the next steps are? Not sure I even proof read them. Need more people to add use cases?
Brady Duga: Curious what the next steps are? Not sure I even proof read them. Need more people to add use cases? ←
16:29:08 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:29:27 <lizadaly> ack dauwhe
16:29:30 <azaroth> ivan: At some point we need to publish working draft -- a more formal doc from the IG -- that we can put on the desks of appropriate people
Ivan Herman: At some point we need to publish working draft -- a more formal doc from the IG -- that we can put on the desks of appropriate people ←
16:29:49 <azaroth> dauwhe: another use case is the desire to style things on page position, eg recto/verso
Dave Cramer: another use case is the desire to style things on page position, eg recto/verso ←
16:29:57 <azaroth> ... do those use cases help?
... do those use cases help? ←
16:30:09 <azaroth> +1 to r/v from medieval manuscript scholar
+1 to r/v from medieval manuscript scholar ←
16:30:25 <azaroth> lizadaly: changing properties of the text based on pagination
Liza Daly: changing properties of the text based on pagination ←
16:30:34 <azaroth> dauwhe: a better foundation for pagination than currently
Dave Cramer: a better foundation for pagination than currently ←
16:30:48 <azaroth> lizadaly: would like to see some publisher focused use cases listed
Liza Daly: would like to see some publisher focused use cases listed ←
16:31:08 <azaroth> ... styling or js apis that publishers could make use of that understand pagination seems relevant
... styling or js apis that publishers could make use of that understand pagination seems relevant ←
16:31:30 <azaroth> ... might want to be explicit that performance is important
... might want to be explicit that performance is important ←
16:31:40 <tzviya> I was thinking of Random and Simon
Tzviya Siegman: I was thinking of Random and Simon ←
16:32:06 <azaroth> tzviya: Simon & Schuster, also Random House
Tzviya Siegman: Simon & Schuster, also Random House ←
16:32:17 <azaroth> dauwhe: wanting to do things particularly with a spread
Dave Cramer: wanting to do things particularly with a spread ←
16:32:29 <azaroth> ivan: who should reach out to Lisa ?Cachin?
Ivan Herman: who should reach out to Lisa ?Cachin? ←
16:32:35 <lizadaly> Liisa
16:32:44 <azaroth> dauwhe: I will
Dave Cramer: I will ←
16:33:02 <azaroth> dauwhe: action on Ivan to get them to join :)
Dave Cramer: action on Ivan to get them to join :) ←
16:33:07 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: -Karen_Myers ←
16:33:28 <azaroth> ivan: reaching out a good idea.
Ivan Herman: reaching out a good idea. ←
16:33:47 <azaroth> tzviya: S&S work on children's books a lot. but if Liisa has good examples that's probably sufficient
Tzviya Siegman: S&S work on children's books a lot. but if Liisa has good examples that's probably sufficient ←
16:33:53 <azaroth> ... RH is a great start
... RH is a great start ←
16:34:17 <azaroth> ivan: what about STEM? mathematical text books with cross refs in pages, formulae etc was incredibly important
Ivan Herman: what about STEM? mathematical text books with cross refs in pages, formulae etc was incredibly important ←
16:34:27 <azaroth> ... can also ask Jean
... can also ask Jean ←
16:34:40 <azaroth> tzviya: can talk about over lunch at EduPub
Tzviya Siegman: can talk about over lunch at EduPub ←
16:34:49 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers ←
16:35:10 <azaroth> lizadaly: Another pass through the use cases would be good
Liza Daly: Another pass through the use cases would be good ←
16:35:20 <azaroth> brady_duga: I'll take another pass through them
Brady Duga: I'll take another pass through them ←
16:35:35 <azaroth> lizadaly: publisher focused ones will take a little longer
Liza Daly: publisher focused ones will take a little longer ←
16:35:47 <azaroth> ivan: brady are you in a position to lead the TF?
Ivan Herman: brady are you in a position to lead the TF? ←
16:36:05 <azaroth> brady_duga: I think we should find someone else, if I take the leadership it won't get done
Brady Duga: I think we should find someone else, if I take the leadership it won't get done ←
16:36:17 <azaroth> ... can't really take on anything much at this point and expect anything to happen with it
... can't really take on anything much at this point and expect anything to happen with it ←
16:36:29 <azaroth> ... can help out
... can help out ←
16:36:44 <azaroth> ivan: so next question is who?
Ivan Herman: so next question is who? ←
16:36:58 <azaroth> lizadaly: I vote for Liisa :)
Tzviya Siegman: I vote for Liisa :) ←
16:37:10 <lizadaly> s/lizadaly/tzviya/
16:37:15 <azaroth> ivan: There was a meeting last week but I don't think it would be appropriate at this moment
Ivan Herman: There was a meeting last week but I don't think it would be appropriate at this moment ←
16:37:18 <lizadaly> but +1 :)
16:37:31 <azaroth> karen: Don't want to discourage reaching out, but they don't see a compelling reason to participate at the moment
Karen Myers: Don't want to discourage reaching out, but they don't see a compelling reason to participate at the moment ←
16:38:04 <azaroth> ivan: We'll reach out anyway for use cases regardless
Ivan Herman: We'll reach out anyway for use cases regardless ←
16:38:12 <azaroth> karen: I think she'd be happy for use cases
Karen Myers: I think she'd be happy for use cases ←
16:38:22 <azaroth> ivan: Getting her as an IE probably not doable at the moment
Ivan Herman: Getting her as an IE probably not doable at the moment ←
16:38:27 <azaroth> ... so need someone else
... so need someone else ←
16:38:44 <azaroth> brady_duga: would love to but am wildly overly committed
Dave Cramer: would love to but am wildly overly committed ←
16:39:03 <azaroth> tzviya: have you heard from elsevier?
Tzviya Siegman: have you heard from elsevier? ←
16:39:07 <lizadaly> s/brady_duga/dauwhe/
16:39:24 <azaroth> ivan: contact goes back 5 or 6 years.
Ivan Herman: contact goes back 5 or 6 years. ←
16:40:07 <azaroth> ivan: oxford university press ... some contact but not the right person. OUP is a member as part of Oxford.
Ivan Herman: oxford university press ... some contact but not the right person. OUP is a member as part of Oxford. ←
16:40:22 <azaroth> ... matter of finding the right person
... matter of finding the right person ←
16:40:34 <azaroth> lizadaly: we build their impelemntations so can talk to team and find the right person
Liza Daly: we build their impelemntations so can talk to team and find the right person ←
16:40:49 <azaroth> ivan: I can reach out but several attempts would be good
Ivan Herman: I can reach out but several attempts would be good ←
16:40:59 <azaroth> lizadaly: we normally work with humanities and reference group
Liza Daly: we normally work with humanities and reference group ←
16:41:15 <azaroth> ivan: a problem we have to solve, but not necessarily right now
Ivan Herman: a problem we have to solve, but not necessarily right now ←
16:41:30 <azaroth> lizadaly: This was only thing on the agenda
Liza Daly: This was only thing on the agenda ←
16:41:32 <azaroth> q+
q+ ←
16:41:39 <lizadaly> ack azaroth
16:42:09 <Luc> Sorry, I have to leave
Luc Audrain: Sorry, I have to leave ←
16:42:12 <tzviya> azaroth: we discussed approving annotation use cases and added accessibility to use cases
Robert Sanderson: we discussed approving annotation use cases and added accessibility to use cases [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←
16:42:19 <Zakim> - +33.1.41.23.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +33.1.41.23.aaaa ←
16:42:23 <tzviya> ...should i begin work on note?
Tzviya Siegman: ...should i begin work on note? ←
16:42:33 <azaroth> ivan: starting to work on note will help to clean up use cases
Ivan Herman: starting to work on note will help to clean up use cases ←
16:42:37 <lizadaly> (Thanks tzviya)
16:42:54 <azaroth> ... so I would start turning them into a real document. While doing that some issues will come up to discuss
... so I would start turning them into a real document. While doing that some issues will come up to discuss ←
16:43:06 <azaroth> ... you have the infrastructure?
... you have the infrastructure? ←
16:43:09 <azaroth> azaroth: Yup
Robert Sanderson: Yup ←
16:43:20 <azaroth> ivan: If you need help you know where to find it :)
Ivan Herman: If you need help you know where to find it :) ←
16:43:24 <azaroth> lizadaly: AOB?
16:43:31 <Zakim> -LFowler
Zakim IRC Bot: -LFowler ←
16:43:31 <azaroth> ... Okay, thanks every one
... Okay, thanks every one ←
16:43:32 <Zakim> -madi
Zakim IRC Bot: -madi ←
16:43:33 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:43:33 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko ←
16:43:34 <Zakim> -Philm
Zakim IRC Bot: -Philm ←
16:43:34 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:43:35 <Zakim> -MIT531
Scribe problem: the name 'MIT531' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jean Kaplansky Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Manuel Rego Casasnovas Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Peter Linss Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Bowles Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -MIT531 ←
16:43:35 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: -Karen_Myers ←
16:43:35 <Zakim> -Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya ←
16:43:36 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
16:43:36 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
16:43:38 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:43:39 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
16:43:41 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
16:43:42 <Zakim> -dshkolnik
Zakim IRC Bot: -dshkolnik ←
16:43:55 <Zakim> -gcapiel
Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel ←
16:44:46 <Zakim> -tmichel
Zakim IRC Bot: -tmichel ←
16:45:00 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:45:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/10-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/10-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
17:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Marilyn, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
(No events recorded for 20 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, Marilyn, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM ←
17:05:02 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were ivan, liza, dauwhe, Marilyn, Philm, azaroth, Tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, duga, +33.1.41.23.aaaa, Stearns, +1.917.447.aabb, benjaminsko, fjh, tmichel, Bert, LFowler,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ivan, liza, dauwhe, Marilyn, Philm, azaroth, Tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, duga, +33.1.41.23.aaaa, Stearns, +1.917.447.aabb, benjaminsko, fjh, tmichel, Bert, LFowler, ←
17:05:03 <Zakim> ... +1.415.832.aacc, dshkolnik, gcapiel, madi, Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.415.832.aacc, dshkolnik, gcapiel, madi, Karen_Myers ←
Formatted by CommonScribe